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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Eccles: Where are the children supposed to go?
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
As I said, that's not my experience though. Surely a newcomer to the faith decides first what they believe and then go from there. Divine worship then becomes part of their catechesis, their instruction in the faith. Lex orandi lex credendi.
How interesting! In my experience, it's usually the other way round - unchurched people are drawn to a Christian community through a friend or some other positive engagement with Christians. Their beliefs tend to be pretty woolly, beyond a fairly simple 'There's something in this Christianity thing, and my new-found Christian friends are great!'
So there's no strong conception of what church services ought to be like, merely a desire to get involved in a church. And, again just from my own experience and intuition, if an unchurched person goes along to a church service or two with their friend but doesn't find it welcoming, comprehensible and so on, they'll tend simply to give up on church, not try other churches where they most likely won't know anybody.
I think we forget how daunting many people find going to some place where (a) you don't know anyone, and (b) you aren't familiar with what's going on.
I think you're analysis is right, but actually so is Ad Orientem.
The vast majority of people come to the faith through friends. They will naturally start going to church with those same friends. Whether that's a church that floats in the rafters on a cloud of incense or a praise band worship fest, the whole thing will be largely incomprehensible. People rely on their friends to explain what is going on, and why.
In many senses the liturgical churches have it slightly easier, because they conform more closely to an expectation about church gleaned from a range of cultural references - Rev Lovejoy dressed in a gown, the Simpsons in their Sunday best, an elderly lady playing the organ etc to take one particular example.
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
On the previous page, attending the Eucharist as a weekly obligation was discussed, something Karl said he'd not come across before. It's something I've heard of in relation to Roman Catholic church observance (and one instance in High Church Anglicanism). However, in my childhood church, I remember there was a printed notice up by the belltower. It stated that churchgoers should attend church at least twice a year, one of which should be Easter. I've heard several churchgoers refer wryly to that notice to explain why the sky wouldn't fall in if they missed a Sunday or two!
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Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
The vast majority of people come to the faith through friends. They will naturally start going to church with those same friends. Whether that's a church that floats in the rafters on a cloud of incense or a praise band worship fest, the whole thing will be largely incomprehensible. People rely on their friends to explain what is going on, and why.
I agree that liturgical churches have the advantage of a few more cultural reference points, but I'm sure it's possible to have church services where things are explained by the people leading the meeting. In fact, my church tries quite hard to do this; although I can't really judge how effectively we manage it, given that I'm thoroughly familiar with it all by now.
Keeping things on the topic of children, we often have a 'ministry time' after the talk, when people are invite to come to the front of the hall if they'd like someone to pray with them. If we're overrunning slightly, whoever's leading the service will explain that the children will be coming in from their groups in a minute but that's okay because God isn't scared off by a bit more noise.
In the same way, other things are explained; like the collection basket, what people can do if they want to get more involved in the church, stand / sit / do what you like when we're singing together...
I really think it's possible to explain what's going on so people at least have some clue, even if they don't fully understand the point of everything.
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
On the previous page, attending the Eucharist as a weekly obligation was discussed, something Karl said he'd not come across before. It's something I've heard of in relation to Roman Catholic church observance (and one instance in High Church Anglicanism). However, in my childhood church, I remember there was a printed notice up by the belltower. It stated that churchgoers should attend church at least twice a year, one of which should be Easter. I've heard several churchgoers refer wryly to that notice to explain why the sky wouldn't fall in if they missed a Sunday or two!
Just speaking personally, I need to receive the Eucharist weekly but I'm happy for this to come in the form of a midweek service if necessary. I certainly don't regard it as an obligation, just a personal need.
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
I'll admit to being an odd child who was, as the saying goes, born old...but I loved church when I was little. It was Sunday School I hated...hated so much that from the ages of about 5 to 10 I somehow convinced my normally conventional, don't-rock-the-boat parents to let me skip Sunday School. (I think the prospect of another hour's sleep on Sunday mornings might have played a role.)
By the way, my current church 'killed" Sunday School a couple of years ago after people finally noticed that, instead of attracting children by holding it concurrently with most of the adult worship service, we actually had fewer children involved; and that, as someone above has suggested, we were training our kids to embrace the idea that the regular worship service was so boring and irrelevant that they should avoid it at all costs once they become confirmed. So now our little kids get a regular "homeschool" packet of devotional materials, Bible stories and games/activities for their parents to do with them at home; older kids participate in a series of teaching retreats that introduce them to some very basic concepts of our theology and worship; we are now considering transitioning confirmation students to more home-based learning, while still holding their usual round of learning retreats.
I think kids pay a lot more attention, and learn more, during a church service than adults give them credit for...even as the children are squirming or watching dust motes float past the stained-glass windows or whatever. (My special fascination as a child was staring at the amazing array of sequins, beads, feathers and other cool things stuck on ladies' hats back in those days. But at the same time I learned the liturgy and many hymns so well that I sang them at home without hymnal.) At our church, too, we give kids the opportunity to help with the service, as acolytes or co-ushers with responsible adults or other age-appropriate activities; they're invited to be up front watching the action.
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
On the previous page, attending the Eucharist as a weekly obligation was discussed, something Karl said he'd not come across before. It's something I've heard of in relation to Roman Catholic church observance (and one instance in High Church Anglicanism). However, in my childhood church, I remember there was a printed notice up by the belltower. It stated that churchgoers should attend church at least twice a year, one of which should be Easter. I've heard several churchgoers refer wryly to that notice to explain why the sky wouldn't fall in if they missed a Sunday or two!
That notice sounds as if it is echoing Cranmer - in which case it isn't about church attendance ut about receiving Holy Communion.
As another 'high churchman' i regard attendance at the eucharist (not receiving HC) to be an obligation on all Sundays and red letter days.
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Bishops Finger
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# 5430
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Posted
I think the minimum still required of a confirmed member of the C of E, as regards reception of Communion, is indeed three times a year, of which Easter to be one.
And, of course, names to be signified to the Curate beforehand!
Ian J.
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Yes leo, you are right, it was talking about taking Communion. (You have to remember I last read this notice a long time ago!)
But the point still holds true - we have to be careful not to require more of children than we require of ourselves as adults, remembering of course that children still attend regular assemblies (at least weekly, if no longer daily) in school in addition to any church attendance at the weekends.
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PataLeBon
Shipmate
# 5452
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Posted
I was raised as a PK (preacher's kid), so I don't know how much really applies, but...
Going to church in my household was an obligation. It was my father's job (and therefore he had to go, even when people were irritating him). My mother didn't always like church or feel close to God, but she always went anyway. My brother and I were brought up by example, that you went to church, even when people were irritating, the service was boring, or you just didn't feel like it, it's what you did.
My mother occasionally jokes that I learned to read early because of the 1928 Prayer Book and the 1948 Hymnal. She says that the only way I would be quiet when I was 2-3 years old was for her to show me what was going on in church. My brother however thought that throwing his toys across church was much more entertaining. ![[Biased]](wink.gif) (Needless to say, no more toys came to church for awhile after that event).
The truth is that what children should do while the adults are in church has been going on for centuries. My grandfather and grandmother had old patterns for church toys for young children (small dolls that were made from fabric, little wooden toys, etc.), so I really don't have any problem with children coloring or playing quietly in church, it's been done for a long time.
I'm personally hesitant about Sunday School being done during worship because it seems (IMHO) to set a standard that children need to be educated and discuss their faith, but adults don't need to. Besides the other idea that children don't worship, adults do.
However, I lead Children's Chapel in my current church, but like most US churches our Sunday School is set at a different time, and we have worked at making sure that people understand that there is a difference. We also don't "make" all the young children (3-6) come. It's an option, and when one parent confessed that their 3 year old would rather remain in church, I told them to let him stay in church. Education was part of Sunday School, worship was part of Chapel, and he could worship with the adults.
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Indifferently
Shipmate
# 17517
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Posted
Ancient Canon law prescribes weekly communion, and Acts 20:7 certainly hints at it. I bow to the universal authority of the Church on this one.
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PataLeBon:
I'm personally hesitant about Sunday School being done during worship because it seems (IMHO) to set a standard that children need to be educated and discuss their faith, but adults don't need to. Besides the other idea that children don't worship, adults do.
Two thoughts on this:
If, by 'worship' you mean singing songs together (and following the liturgy, in churches of that nature) then you could always do such things in the children's sessions. That's what my church does, anyway; the children are usually in their own groups for the whole of the Sunday service time, starting with all the children together for a period of craft and play, then singing, and after that a period of more traditional 'Sunday School' activities in smaller age groups.
As for adults not needing to be educated and discuss their faith, IMO church services would be much more fruitful if there were a more explicit element of teaching (or rather, discipleship) in which people talked with one another about their faith. I agree with your point, PataLeBon, that adults' and children's meetings should cover the same sort of ground, but I think it's adult meetings that are in most need of re-examination!
quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
Ancient Canon law prescribes weekly communion, and Acts 20:7 certainly hints at it. I bow to the universal authority of the Church on this one.
When you mean 'my Church' could you say that please, rather than 'the Church'? Thanks! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PataLeBon:
I'm personally hesitant about Sunday School being done during worship because it seems (IMHO) to set a standard that children need to be educated and discuss their faith, but adults don't need to. Besides the other idea that children don't worship, adults do.
However, I lead Children's Chapel in my current church, but like most US churches our Sunday School is set at a different time, and we have worked at making sure that people understand that there is a difference.
In the UK, the historical churches now see Sunday School as something for children, and something that takes places while adults are engaged in 'worship'. The children will return to worship with the adults before the end of the service, and to participate in Communion. (This didn't use to be the case - in the 19th c. Sunday Schools often had a distinct identity from the churches, and sessions were held at a different time from church services.)
Conversely, my experience of black-led churches in the UK is that they hold their Sunday Schools either before or usually after the worship service, and both adults and children attend, although the children have different teachers. This obviously lengthens the time attenders spend at church on Sundays, so people used to spending 1 hr max. at church (as most mainstream British Christians are) wouldn't be too keen. But as you imply, I imagine it breaks down the barriers between children and adults, since Sunday School is no longer seen as something babyish. Also, people who attend these sessions seem to benefit by gaining a higher level of Bible knowledge than people who equate churchgoing primarily with 'worship'.
Lutheranchik
quote:
Now our little kids get a regular "homeschool" packet of devotional materials, Bible stories and games/activities for their parents to do with them at home.
I once read that in the past, the Christian education of children was seen primarily as the job of their parents, not of specialist volunteers in churches. Toddlers weren't expected to sit quietly in church; they graduated to churchgoing as they approached adulthood. We (in the UK) seem to have de-skilled or de-motivated Christian parents by undermining their educational role in this process. I've never heard a sermon or a church discussion about how parents should discuss their living faith with their children. But I have heard of churchgoing parents who never talk to their children about Jesus. It's strange.
[ 04. May 2013, 19:10: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
As for adults not needing to be educated and discuss their faith, IMO church services would be much more fruitful if there were a more explicit element of teaching (or rather, discipleship) in which people talked with one another about their faith.
I get seriously concerned by the number of adult Christians who don't want to learn about their faith (and apply it to real-life situations). So often they think they've learned all they need by the age of 11 and never grow into a mature faith.
Why is this? Simply laziness to apply one's mind to matters of faith? A feeling that church should be a refuge from the world on Monday to Friday? Spiritual pride which says "I know it all"? A desire not to be disturbed from their comfy assumptions rather than to pursue the more risky path of pilgrimage and new discoveries? Or what?
Is it not rather hypocritical of adults to expect children to learn when they are not prepared to do so themselves?
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
I once read that in the past, the Christian education of children was seen primarily as the job of their parents, not of specialist volunteers in churches.
Indeed. In fact Sunday School was regarded as the place where the unwashed bulk of pagan children went to be taught the faith. The church parents wouldn't have dared to be caught sending their children as that would have been seen as an admission that they had failed to bring up their children properly.
And there were "class" issues too ...
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
I get seriously concerned by the number of adult Christians who don't want to learn about their faith (and apply it to real-life situations). So often they think they've learned all they need by the age of 11 and never grow into a mature faith.
Why is this? Simply laziness to apply one's mind to matters of faith? A feeling that church should be a refuge from the world on Monday to Friday? Spiritual pride which says "I know it all"? A desire not to be disturbed from their comfy assumptions rather than to pursue the more risky path of pilgrimage and new discoveries? Or what?
Is it not rather hypocritical of adults to expect children to learn when they are not prepared to do so themselves?
Some Christian writers feel that the dualistic, hierarchical nature of church life in general discourages churchgoers from seeking spiritual maturity for themselves. The set-up takes it for granted that the minister (or lay preacher) and the sermon represent the core of church life, and since these are present every week without fail it seems like overkill to go much further, unless one intends to become a theologian or a preacher. The practical advantages don't seem to be immediately apparent.
The toleration of greater theological diversity in churches perhaps also lessens the urgency for a deep theological or Biblical awareness.
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Indifferently
Shipmate
# 17517
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
When you mean 'my Church' could you say that please, rather than 'the Church'? Thanks!
No, when I say "the Church" I am referring to the universal Church here. My particular Church (the Church of England) has not ruled on the matter.
You're welcome.
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
As for adults not needing to be educated and discuss their faith, IMO church services would be much more fruitful if there were a more explicit element of teaching (or rather, discipleship) in which people talked with one another about their faith. I agree with your point, PataLeBon, that adults' and children's meetings should cover the same sort of ground, but I think it's adult meetings that are in most need of re-examination!
I agree that Christian education/discipleship is lacking in churches. I'm not sure that a worship service is the best place for this to happen. As an occasional preacher I'm very much aware that I'm very unlikely to say anything the majority of the congregation don't already know - 60+ years of listening to sermons and living the faith are likely to give one a lot of experience that some whipper-snapper in the pulpit isn't going to add much too. My aim is to remind people of what God has done for them, lead them in praise and worship with particular emphasis on what the readings that day lead us to, and renew their commitment to live the faith the rest of the week. If someone learns something new, that's a bonus.
Education/discipleship works much better in other contexts. Small group discussions are IMO best, something lecture style probably the worst (with the possible exception of something highly specialised) - and if the sermon is used to teach then it gets very close to a lecture style address. The members of the church have a wealth of experience and knowledge, and the best option is for everyone to share that, and too many wouldn't say anything in a large group.
The main question is when that education should happen. IMO, not in a space in the Sunday morning worship. A 'Sunday School' before or after worship works, as does a midweek group. The idea of such groups being held at the same time as the education of children is great - though I question why children shouldn't be in those education groups with the adults as well.
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
But how do you get folks - children or adult - to attend a group outside the main Sunday worship time? IME only 20% of people are willing to do so. And some hate small-group discussion as they feel so exposed.
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
When you mean 'my Church' could you say that please, rather than 'the Church'? Thanks!
No, when I say "the Church" I am referring to the universal Church here. My particular Church (the Church of England) has not ruled on the matter.
Okay, sorry for misunderstanding you. It's just those phrases 'ancient Canon law' and 'universal authority of the Church' made me think you were claiming something as universal which actually not all Christians (not even all churches) would affirm.
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
But how do you get folks - children or adult - to attend a group outside the main Sunday worship time? IME only 20% of people are willing to do so. And some hate small-group discussion as they feel so exposed.
Well, quite! I really like the concept of emphasising the making of disciples, and then all the rest - church service attendance, financial giving, willingness to get involved - will follow. Jesus said he would build his church, while the task he gave us was to make disciples, i.e. to help become people who are learning from Jesus and seeking to follow his way of living.
So if people don't have a sense of wanting to emulate Jesus in their character, then I suppose it will be difficult to get them along to another class or group. Especially if they're uncomfortable with the format (e.g. folks Baptist Trainfan mentioned who feel exposed in small-group discussions).
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
... I once read that in the past, the Christian education of children was seen primarily as the job of their parents, not of specialist volunteers in churches. Toddlers weren't expected to sit quietly in church; they graduated to churchgoing as they approached adulthood. We (in the UK) seem to have de-skilled or de-motivated Christian parents by undermining their educational role in this process. I've never heard a sermon or a church discussion about how parents should discuss their living faith with their children. But I have heard of churchgoing parents who never talk to their children about Jesus. It's strange.
I've been told that before the 14-18 War quite a lot of households had daily family prayers. I don't know how widespread that really was or how it fitted with work patterns, shifts. School transport wouldn't have been a problem then since I think most children walked to school. I've know families who have tried to maintain the practice, but don't know how well they have succeeded.
I think many RC families said the rosary together until more recent times. I'd like to imagine some still do.
I don't know whether there were books telling you how to do this. It's obvious that 'Prayers during the Day' in CW Daily Prayer is designed in the hope that people will take it up. Usually though, churches can't resist the temptation to recommend things that are too complicated for people actually to do.
Of course, back when I was at school, the day always started with an assembly or chapel. I get the impression this only happens now if you're in a proper church school.
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Assembly - aka a hymn, a prayer and a bollocking.
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
Certainly most primary schools, unless they're a non-Christian faith school, will have assembly with hymns daily or at least a few times a week if it's a very big school. Secondary schools, not so much. Neither my primary or secondary school was a church school, but my primary school had daily assembly with hymns and often a Christian talk from the headteacher or deputy head. At secondary school I had assembly once a week and no hymns or anything religious at all.
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Heavenly Anarchist
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# 13313
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Posted
My youngest's village primary (non-Christian) has daily assembly with songs of a vaguely Christian slant, with prayers and a Christian talk on Thursdays when the vicar takes assembly. My eldest at secondary school has weekly assembly with no songs or prayers or anything religious.
[ 05. May 2013, 18:43: Message edited by: Heavenly Anarchist ]
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Enoch
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# 14322
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Posted
But what about family prayers?
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ArachnidinElmet
Shipmate
# 17346
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
But what about family prayers?
One of the things my parish is involved in is the The Wednesday Word . It's a way for families to break the word for the next week's gospel at home. We have the 'parish version' printed at the back of the weekly bulletin, and the two associated primary schools and first communion prgramme encourage the parents to use it with their children. I don't have children, so can't really comment on whether it works, but I've heard good things.
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
Perhaps church primary schools and primary schools in small towns, villages and some suburban areas still do prayers and have some openly Christian imput. But I don't think this is universal. And although the CofE places a high priority on its church schools, I'm not sure what they count as success in terms of the spiritual life of the children there. Putting it crudely, what's the payback? (And I'm not referring to kids who have to go to church just to win a place at a 'good school'!)
As for family prayers, it would interesting to know to what extent these persist among Christian families.
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Ethne Alba
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# 5804
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Posted
I guess all churches have very different histories and we certainly all have different experiences from our own childhoods. But life has changed. It's moved on. Life just isn't like when we were children any more, at least not here in my part of the UK it isn't
At our place, parents are bringing their children along to a church service with a sunday school because their children get to meet with friends from school in the sunday school. While the children are elsewhere, parents are able to consider the claims of God and the life of the church, they get to pray and worship for half an hour without the children. And that half an hour is very precious to them.
With that half an hour, they are able to grow in their faith.
[We also have a type of secondary school that requires attendance at a church for admission (it's the UK, we have quirky ways)Which is a pain, but at least we get families for a few years and who knows what can happen in that time?]
Unlike Karl, we do have enough sunday school teachers, but if this were a village instead of beige-suburbia...it could be another matter altogether.
I've followed this topic for a while now and confess to amusement over the idea that all children could be expected to sit through a service. Maybe you all have perfectly behaved children of the compliant variety in your congregations? Maybe your churches are rivetting places of worship? Maybe all your children come from families who are used to sitting through a church service?
Our lot are not like that. Out of our possible twenty five children (six months to 14 yrs) only six are able to sensibly follow the service. If there's no sunday school, most loose the will to live after about ten minutes and then it's a sort of semi controlled mayhem until the last hymn. Parents retreat shattered and any idea of drawing close to God has long since evaporated.
Were i in Karl's place...i also would have left and gone elsewhere + I also would have been fairly ticked off and felt unsupported.
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Pomona
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# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Perhaps church primary schools and primary schools in small towns, villages and some suburban areas still do prayers and have some openly Christian imput. But I don't think this is universal. And although the CofE places a high priority on its church schools, I'm not sure what they count as success in terms of the spiritual life of the children there. Putting it crudely, what's the payback? (And I'm not referring to kids who have to go to church just to win a place at a 'good school'!)
As for family prayers, it would interesting to know to what extent these persist among Christian families.
It is law for UK schools to have prayer, church school or not. From what I can tell, prayers and hymns at assemblies is pretty normal even in big cities. There may be a lot of children excused from the assemblies on religious grounds, but the assemblies still happen.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Perhaps church primary schools and primary schools in small towns, villages and some suburban areas still do prayers and have some openly Christian imput. But I don't think this is universal. And although the CofE places a high priority on its church schools, I'm not sure what they count as success in terms of the spiritual life of the children there. Putting it crudely, what's the payback? (And I'm not referring to kids who have to go to church just to win a place at a 'good school'!)
As for family prayers, it would interesting to know to what extent these persist among Christian families.
It is law for UK schools to have prayer, church school or not. From what I can tell, prayers and hymns at assemblies is pretty normal even in big cities. There may be a lot of children excused from the assemblies on religious grounds, but the assemblies still happen.
I understand what the law says, but schools don't necessarily follow the law to the letter, especially if they don't feel it would be appropriate to do so.
I live in a multicultural area in a highly multicultural city.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Pomona
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# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Perhaps church primary schools and primary schools in small towns, villages and some suburban areas still do prayers and have some openly Christian imput. But I don't think this is universal. And although the CofE places a high priority on its church schools, I'm not sure what they count as success in terms of the spiritual life of the children there. Putting it crudely, what's the payback? (And I'm not referring to kids who have to go to church just to win a place at a 'good school'!)
As for family prayers, it would interesting to know to what extent these persist among Christian families.
It is law for UK schools to have prayer, church school or not. From what I can tell, prayers and hymns at assemblies is pretty normal even in big cities. There may be a lot of children excused from the assemblies on religious grounds, but the assemblies still happen.
I understand what the law says, but schools don't necessarily follow the law to the letter, especially if they don't feel it would be appropriate to do so.
I live in a multicultural area in a highly multicultural city.
So have I, in more than one city (one in the Midlands and one in the north). Certainly, Christian assemblies happen for at least infant school children.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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ExclamationMark
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# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
[QUOTE]It is law for UK schools to have prayer, church school or not. From what I can tell, prayers and hymns at assemblies is pretty normal even in big cities. There may be a lot of children excused from the assemblies on religious grounds, but the assemblies still happen.
That's not my experience in towns nor in rural areas over the last 20 years. In fact Jade, to the East of Northampton, it was unusual even 20 years ago. Even in Devon (in church schools at that) there was only one assembly a week.
In many others (in a certain town location now) there are no school assemblies apart from the ones I do as visitor. That's true even in the most ethnically mixed schools (one I go to has only 10% bristish pupils), even though they are supposed to cover all the world religions. They do 4 of them but Christianity gets left out - sad but true.
Forget hymns and, in somem, forget prayers. You're allowed only a thought or reflection. In East Northants in the early to mid 1990's you all (I) were given specific instructions that you could pray but you couldn't pray in the name of Jesus.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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ExclamationMark
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# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
[QUOTE] but schools don't necessarily follow the law to the letter, especially if they don't feel it would be appropriate to do so.
I live in a multicultural area in a highly multicultural city.
So do I. Every school breaks the law with impunity, even church schools in rural areas (e.g North Devon) where 99% of the population is technically white, British and nominally Christian (no places of worship for other faiths). I was a Governor in such a school with responsibility for RE so I have first hand experience.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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dj_ordinaire
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# 4643
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Posted
This is an interesting discussion, but possibly a little different from how children interact with church services.
I'm going to start a new thread, which I would suggest any further debate in this area transfers too... much obliged!
dj_ordinaire, Eccles host
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76
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Posted
There are quite a few different subjects being driven along in this thread now.
There's also the "children in church" perennial, with its variations "why won't the little buggers behave and be quiet?", and "how do we encourage them and provide meaningful worship for children?" There's the "why are so many churches empty and no-one comes to church?" question - they're related to the first, IMNAAHO, but somewhat separate.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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