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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Hell: Park this
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
From here: quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
Under some circumstances I really like the singular they. For instance: Q: Whose car is that? A: I don't know, but they sure don't know how to park!
"She" is the traditional pronoun here, surely? ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
my response: quote:
Originally posted by comet:
of course. "She" couldn't take the time to park, because "she" actually had something important to do, like rip the testicles off some smirking man who thinks a faulty shrunken chromosome makes him magically good at something so vital to life as getting an automobile between two arbitrary lines.
and Gill's response: quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
The traditional response to 'why are women bad at parking' (which is nonsense btw) is 'Men keep telling them that this much (indicates tiny distance) is six inches'.
Now, I'm not calling Leorning Cniht* out all by himself, and he hardly broke some super offensive societal norm since this bullshit is common enough through society. I hear this crap from men everywhere. It's meant "all in fun" and I'm meant to laugh it off and I'm sure in their minds it's all harmless play. And on one level it is just that.
On another level: I have a 24 year old daughter. She was not raised to believe this kind of bullshit, but she now accepts it. she's been sucked into the flip side of the "just joking" coin - "poor me! Someone else needs to change my tire, drive in traffic, banish the spiders!" and I'm fucking annoyed. This kid was doing two week backcountry hiking and boat trips when she was ten. She skinned her first moose when she was 11. She fired her first rifle when she was something like 6 or 7. but now? her idiot husband tells her she's a bad driver and suddenly she lets him drive her truck everywhere. What the fuck is that about?
So to all you men out there who enjoy what you think is a little harmless fun, who get a little snide thrill hanging on to the mythology that you are mystically imparted superior driving or whatever skills based on a random loose flap of tissue hanging between your legs, here's my challenge.
I can't parallel park very well. I also have a terrible throwing arm, am unable to write my name in the snow in pee, and I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in American Football. Further, I hate cheap beer, and I think Jack Daniels tastes like mothballs. I have no interest whatsoever in operating heavy equipment or repairing my own sink. button down shirts look like tents on me and I cry when I'm angry enough.
totally, 100%, stereotypical girl.
Let me tell you what I CAN do. I can tell a story that makes the most hardened public officials cry. I can raise an entire audience to their feet in the middle of a play after one monologue. I can make even the saddest people laugh. I am brave enough to put on a ludicrous costume and go out in public in it for no better reason than I know it will make some people's day. I can silence an entire rollicking bar with just my voice, either singing sweetly or roaring like the lion I am.
I can organize an event hosting hundreds of people and raising thousands of dollars, all while cooking a 5 course meal, explaining subatomic physics to a seven year old, breaking up a dog fight, and keeping a wood stove going for 7 months straight without having to start a new fire from scratch.
I can keep the bill collectors at bay, tell you which tie will keep you from looking like a loser at your meeting, dig a 1/2 ton chevy out of a snowbank, set out a table setting for 12 with the good silver, walk in 3 inch heels, and punch a drunken letch in the neck and drop him to the ground.
I can make you feel warm, safe, nurtured, and sexually put through the ringer in the space of an hour.
I can do all of this on 4 hours of sleep, with a bad case of the cramps, and while fighting a cold. And make it look effortless and never demand that someone tell me what a good girl I am for having done what is expected of me anyway.
furthermore, all of us women have a skill set similar to this. Many of those lists include parking and throwing fucking balls.
So tell me, all you great and powerful parkers of cars and throwers of baseballs, what the fuck can YOU do?
*Learning Knut? Leonard Knight? Listen, shipmates, chose what name you like but for fuck sake chose something pronounceable or I will be mentally assigning you a name such as, say, "Leaning Cunt". just FYI.
[ 03. January 2014, 08:13: Message edited by: Marvin the Martian ]
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
"poor me! Someone else needs to change my tire, drive in traffic, banish the spiders!"
and before any of my facebook friends call me out, a) it was a huge fucking spider and more importantly, b) it was my mother I called on for help.
my point stands.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Men are frightened of spiders too.
![[Mad]](angryfire.gif) to the guy who insisted on directing my car out of its parking place last week. Yes, I daresay I was being unnecessarily cautious and I could have gone closer to the cars behind me. BUT it was pitch-dark and raining and I couldn't actually SEE your signals. So your no-doubt well-meant efforts to 'help' were actually counterproductive, because in addition to worrying about hitting someone else's car I had to worry about whether I was going to hit you - and believe me, it was tempting...
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
Under some circumstances I really like the singular they. For instance: Q: Whose car is that? A: I don't know, but they sure don't know how to park!
"She" is the traditional pronoun here, surely?
... I can't parallel park very well. ... totally, 100%, stereotypical girl. ... my point stands.
As man, I'm really good at selective hearing. It's a survival skill.
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
So tell me, all you great and powerful parkers of cars and throwers of baseballs, what the fuck can YOU do?
Pee on the compost heap ? ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
I'm pretty good at drinking beer.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Men are frightened of spiders too.
There is an interesting proportion of men in my life that are petrified of spiders. I don't get it.But then I was the kid that used to play with daddy long-legs(es)
I grew up on a plot of land that was basically one big black widow's nest. Seriously, there's a gazillion of them under the crawlspace.I only got bit once, when I was nine, and it only resulted in a big itchy welt and a couple days of feeling achy all over. Didn't even know what happened till much later. My mom just shrugged at me the next day and said,"Oh that's just a spider bite," and then I discovered what kind of spiders we had in our house.
Basically Widows are not as poisonous as they say-- unless you are a very small child-- and invest most of their energy in staying the hell away from humans, so I have a cautious comfort around them. Long as they stay in the crawlspace where they belong.
I like bugs in general, so I annoyingly find most spiders cute.I am not really intimidated by those I don't.Any time you can stop the conversation by the application of a thumb...
So,put me in,comet! (and gentlemen, I guess. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) ) I'll kill the spiders for you!
My karma's probably centuries fucked,anyway.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Men are frightened of spiders too.
to the guy who insisted on directing my car out of its parking place last week. Yes, I daresay I was being unnecessarily cautious and I could have gone closer to the cars behind me. BUT it was pitch-dark and raining and I couldn't actually SEE your signals. So your no-doubt well-meant efforts to 'help' were actually counterproductive, because in addition to worrying about hitting someone else's car I had to worry about whether I was going to hit you - and believe me, it was tempting...
see,this to me is a tactic. Sometimes, I mean-- who knows what he was thinking,but some people of the control freak variety (both genders) jump in an micromanage in a way that gives them more opportunities to micromanage.
There's a great scene in the movie "Slaves of New York" where the main character's boyfriend yells at her every time she is about to swing during a softball game. He then scolds her for not doing whatever he had yelled at her--because, of course her ineptness was the problem, not his fucking jumping on her focus every time she tried to employ it.It's a fantastic way to deprive someone of confidence.
It also makes me,personally, want to kill,kill kill.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
Spiders aren't as scary since my wife will kill them for me.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
I can't parallel park very well.
snip
what the fuck can YOU do?
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif) Well...
when I became a Certified Driving Instructor last year I learned a comparatively simple step by step process which makes parallel parking pretty easy. It's gratifying to walk a new driver through it and then see the smile when they nail their first attempt.
It'll take some time to express it in this medium so by request only.
Carry on.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Rowen
Shipmate
# 1194
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Posted
My 18 year old nephew was patronising me one afternoon, re the difficulty I had with reverse parking the car and not really understanding the nature of triangles, both of which he believed were basic essentials of living in western society.
I answered back at him... "So, when your best friend is killed in a car accident, and everyone is stricken with despair, at least I will know how to do a bloody good funeral, and I may even know some things to do or words to say that may help some of you face the future with courage again. I would go over to his family house and spend time with his parents... But at least you understand triangles. Hmm, I know what skills I would prefer to possess."
His parents glared at him. He looked embarrassed, and announced he needed to go to the loo. As he left the room, his sisters, at age 17, said "So there is still hope for us to become functional members of society?"
This young man as been politer to me since!
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"May I live this day… compassionate of heart" (John O’Donoghue)...
Posts: 4897 | From: Somewhere cold in Victoria, Australia | Registered: Aug 2001
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Just to fuck up the paradigm, parallel parking is a contact sport where I live, and I'm a champ.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rowen:
He looked embarrassed, and announced he needed to go to the loo.
I'm guessing he spent his time in there gazing at his member and wondering how a mere woman could wind up with a significantly bigger dick than his. ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
(Metaphorically speaking, of course.)
[ 18. September 2013, 00:22: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
My daughters can change car oil, start a fire in the bush, portage a canoe, shoot, throw axes, ski, operate power tools, and drive better and park, than any man they've been with. They are also able to knee some asspant douchebag in the nuts.
They also understand Foghorn Leghorn: 'We gotta find out whose the better man, chicken or your mother. Well, let me tell you, your mother's the better man.'
In suspect Comet, that you also are the better man.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
I loathe the stereotypes of who should be good at, or keen about, what simply because of their external configurations.
Side note: I love spiders! Mum taught me how to take them outdoors without damaging them.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
I can't parallel park very well. I also have a terrible throwing arm, am unable to write my name in the snow in pee, and I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in American Football. Further, I hate cheap beer, and I think Jack Daniels tastes like mothballs. I have no interest whatsoever in operating heavy equipment or repairing my own sink. button down shirts look like tents on me and I cry when I'm angry enough.
totally, 100%, stereotypical girl.
Holy shit. I must be a girl too, why did nobody tell me?
[ETA - I also can't do code very well - typical girl]
[ 18. September 2013, 00:59: Message edited by: balaam ]
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
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Posted
When our boys were very young we refused to give them toy guns and such on the notion that they should not have to grow up thinking boys had to shoot things to be real men when they grew up. (And there were no real guns in the house either.) One day we looked out in the back yard to see them carrying sticks and shouting "bang bang."
Society provides role norms that we absorb mostly without thinking about them. Some of those norms are good (stealing is bad, killing is bad, watching reality TV is bad) and some norms like males being better at driving are wrong and without basis in fact.
In truth the worst drivers are cops. So, question closed.
In my Venture crew the absolute best Venture Scout is a young lady. She does more stuff then any other scout. It is not because of her gender, but her ambition.
So, when you see a guy acting like he is better at something because he is male, just remember he has absorbed a false norm without thinking about it. In other words, he is stupid. So what the fuck do you care about his opinions?
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
Holy shit. I must be a girl too, why did nobody tell me?
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
In suspect Comet, that you also are the better man.
Gender-benders R Us!
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
So, when you see a guy acting like he is better at something because he is male, just remember he has absorbed a false norm without thinking about it. In other words, he is stupid. So what the fuck do you care about his opinions?
I don't, actually. When I see this kind of stuff I just write it off - along with the person who said it - as coming from someone who doesn't think before they speak and/or is so insecure in their own abilities they feel the need to scrounge for some way they can be better at something. and honestly, if parking or throwing balls is all you got, so be it. As Rowen said, if your understanding of a triangle is all you have to make you feel whole, then Go You Mister Triangle!
That being said, I'm pretty sure I'm not alone among women for hearing this shit a lot. the reality is, everyone's abilities are on a gradient. the good baker may be terrible at public speaking. the accounting whiz may not be able to operate their DVD player. there may be some gender-based trends (in general, the average man has more upper body strength, for instance) but there are no gender-based skills. Yet, I hear all the time how I must be poor at X, Y, or Z because I have boobs. That's horseshit. and the reality is, these funnyguys know that, but for some reason they feel the need to perpetuate the stereotype.
And THAT is what I care about. I care about this stupid shit getting pushed off on others even under the guise of a joke. because, news flash folks, young people are buying it. Girls are left believing they'll never be good at algebra or changing tires and boys are left believing that they can't cook or raise children or nurture the sick and it's all bullshit.
which randomly ish leads me to a joke *I* used to tell all of the time but is exactly the problem. even though it's kind of funny.
Why do women have two sets of lips?
so they can piss and moan* at the same time.
Why don't men have two sets of lips?
because they can't do two things at the same time.
it's bullshit. Especially after 5 years at a bar, I've become well aware of men whom complain. And can multi-task, too. but you tell these "jokes" etc around your kids, and they believe it, or at least default to it. and your girls feel they're "allowed" to be complainers while your boys let the girls do all the multi-tasking because they think they can't.
*translation: piss and moan means to complain all the time
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
*translation: piss and moan means to complain all the time
Around here that would mean to pee and to moan.
I better not be holding a bat and hear crap like that. Someone's landing gear would be permanently retracted into their fuselage.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Rowen
Shipmate
# 1194
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Rowen:
He looked embarrassed, and announced he needed to go to the loo.
I'm guessing he spent his time in there gazing at his member and wondering how a mere woman could wind up with a significantly bigger dick than his.
(Metaphorically speaking, of course.)
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"May I live this day… compassionate of heart" (John O’Donoghue)...
Posts: 4897 | From: Somewhere cold in Victoria, Australia | Registered: Aug 2001
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Rowen
Shipmate
# 1194
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Posted
Dear Kelly,
I adore this.
Thanks
Rowen
quote:
Originally posted by Rowen:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Rowen:
He looked embarrassed, and announced he needed to go to the loo.
I'm guessing he spent his time in there gazing at his member and wondering how a mere woman could wind up with a significantly bigger dick than his.
(Metaphorically speaking, of course.)
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"May I live this day… compassionate of heart" (John O’Donoghue)...
Posts: 4897 | From: Somewhere cold in Victoria, Australia | Registered: Aug 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I loathe the stereotypes of who should be good at, or keen about, what simply because of their external configurations.
Side note: I love spiders! Mum taught me how to take them outdoors without damaging them.
I bet a certain Admin is really glad he got promoted out of Hell right about now, because I would so enlist you in helping me find jpegs to terrorize him with...
[ 18. September 2013, 03:05: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Preach it, Sister Comet!
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
Now, I'm not calling Leorning Cniht out all by himself, and he hardly broke some super offensive societal norm since this bullshit is common enough through society. I hear this crap from men everywhere. It's meant "all in fun" and I'm meant to laugh it off and I'm sure in their minds it's all harmless play. And on one level it is just that.
So apparently I didn't hit the nuance right. Ah well - it's hard to do in writing with people you don't know well.
Yes, the idea that "women can't park" is obviously crap, just like "women can't do math" is obviously crap.
It might be crap with a nugget of truth somewhere - there are, I think, sex differences in spatial awareness, which probably correlates with parking, so I'd be prepared to believe that the high tail of really good parkers might be mostly men, and the low tail of really bad parkers might be mostly women, but the male and female distribution of parking ability (and indeed math) overlap so much that sex is not a useful discriminant - for most of us, the next woman is just as likely to be a better (or worse) parker as the next man.
quote:
I will be mentally assigning you a name such as, say, "Leaning Cunt". just FYI.
Hmm. Maybe the next time a name amnesty comes around, I should put in for "Oblique Orifice".
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
I love and adore the memory of my late Dad, he was the best.
One thing I am still miffed at him for 'tho. He taught both my brothers to drive, aged seventeen. When I reached seventeen he refused because 'women can't drive'. I had to wait 'till I could afford my own lessons (aged 26). I'm a far better driver than either of my brothers.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
Yes, the idea that "women can't park" is obviously crap, just like "women can't do math" is obviously crap.
For the record, that women cannot park as well as men in some appropriate statistical sense 1) is to be expected, since men generally score somewhat better in complex visuo-spatial mental manipulation skills, 2) has been confirmed in the setting of at least one scientific study, and 3) is borne out by women failing their driving tests about twice as often as men on parking skills. Yes, all that may still turn out to be crap, but that is far from obvious.
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I bet a certain Admin is really glad he got promoted out of Hell right about now, because I would so enlist you in helping me find jpegs to terrorize him with...
You know I can ban people now, right?
[ 18. September 2013, 07:53: Message edited by: Marvin the Martian ]
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
So tell me, all you great and powerful parkers of cars and throwers of baseballs, what the fuck can YOU do?
Park cars and throw baseballs, of course. I also cook a mean curry and analyse data like it ain't no thing.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
Yes, the idea that "women can't park" is obviously crap, just like "women can't do math" is obviously crap.
For the record, that women cannot park as well as men in some appropriate statistical sense 1) is to be expected, since men generally score somewhat better in complex visuo-spatial mental manipulation skills, 2) has been confirmed in the setting of at least one scientific study, and 3) is borne out by women failing their driving tests about twice as often as men on parking skills. Yes, all that may still turn out to be crap, but that is far from obvious.
None of it is obvious since most scientific papers are probably wrong
and a stereotype can easily produce misleading statistical data if the parking skills are judged by a human observer or self assessed as in the cited paper.
Math Skills are an example of self-perpetuating bias caused by gender bias in teaching Female students are given negative feedback for calling out answers unasked where male students are often praised for this in a 25 year old paper. Hopefully this is getting better as teachers attempt to address their failings as teachers.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
Yes, the idea that "women can't park" is obviously crap, just like "women can't do math" is obviously crap.
For the record, that women cannot park as well as men in some appropriate statistical sense 1) is to be expected, since men generally score somewhat better in complex visuo-spatial mental manipulation skills, 2) has been confirmed in the setting of at least one scientific study, and 3) is borne out by women failing their driving tests about twice as often as men on parking skills. Yes, all that may still turn out to be crap, but that is far from obvious.
Sure, sure, but what Comet's saying is that this is becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. I'd like to see you untangle parking-inadequacy derived from lack of self-confidence from parking-inadequacy derived from ACTUAL lack of spatial awareness.
As an illustration: I am female. I drive. I don't parallel park unless I have to. However, I actually CAN do it - I passed my driving test, after all, and I have actually done it many times in the (oh, shit, twenty-one) years since*. But always in the back of my mind, is the knowledge that if - IF - I fuck it up and scrape someone's car, that someone, and anyone else who happens to be in the vicinity, will roll their eyes heavenward, and say either inwardly or outwardly, 'Yeah - women and parking. Not a good match'.
Whilst if a guy fucks up the same thing the response is likely to be either: (Bad luck) 'Oh dude, what's up? Have you not had any coffee yet today?', or (random instance of idiot) 'You stupid shitface! Look what you did to my car, you dick!'. Either way, the guy is not letting the side down. He is not assumed to be representative of his entire gender. He has either made an out-of-character mistake, or he is a one-in-a-thousand dickhead.
And before anyone else brings it up, yes, guys do have to put up with similar crap around stuff like multitasking. There's just a 'received wisdom' that men can't multi-task and people seem to be primed to notice instances of failure rather than success in this area.
*WITHOUT hitting or scraping anyone
(ETA asterisk and disclaimer)
[ 18. September 2013, 09:12: Message edited by: anoesis ]
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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --
Posts: 993 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008
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Starbug
Shipmate
# 15917
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Posted
As well as all the stereotypes Comet mentioned ( ), can I also add to the list pink power tools? Why, in the name of anything, would women be more likely to use a power drill or screwdriver just because it looks like one of Barbie's accessories? The whole thing is just crap!
There was a woman on Dragon's Den (UK TV show) last week, who had invented a pink de-icer for her car that was also available in - wait for it - handbag size. Fortunately, the dragons laughed her put of the den and told her that she was trying to fix a problem that didn't exist. The de-icer in my car is a great big spray can from the supermarket - why the hell would I want to weigh down my bag with crap like that? Not to mention the fact that it could be classed as a weapon if my bag was searched. Sadly, even though the dragons rejected her product, the silly woman still thought it was a brilliant idea. Personally, I think the whole 'lets make it smaller and pink so that girls can use it' thing is patronising and pathetic.
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“Oh the pointing again. They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?” ― The Day of the Doctor
Posts: 1189 | From: West of the New Forest | Registered: Sep 2010
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
In 20 years, I've attempted parallel parking maybe... twice?
Because I was scarcely competent at it for my driving test and there isn't a great need in this city.
Also, in all but the rarest situations I'm actually quite happy to park further away and get a bit of exercise. I enjoy walking.
But it's okay. I'm a queer, so I don't reflect gender stereotypes properly anyway. Although mystifyingly I still enjoy watching sport on the telly.
EDIT: Okay, okay, I also enjoy watching the players. Aussie rules guys: phwoar!
SECOND EDIT: But I frequently prefer women's tennis. It's not all about the perve factor.
[ 18. September 2013, 09:43: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
It's quite a challenge, isn't it? What the fuck can you do?
Errm. I can cut my toe-nails. Is that any use? I love spiders, and carry them out to the garden. I also like worms. I used to fall in love very easily, but I have it under control now, partly due to senescence.
That's about it really.
Oh I forgot, the thing that always amazes me about reverse parking, is that the angle you go in at has to be bigger than common sense would tell you. So I sort of think of an angle, and then increase it quite drastically, so it actually feels wrong and exaggerated, and that usually works.
[ 18. September 2013, 10:17: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I was talking to a woman engineer the other week. She was telling me about an instance where she was discussing (with a male) the relative merits of a laptop or a tablet for use in the field. She favoured the tablet. 'Yes' agreed the other. 'And you can slip it in your handbag!'
Which she would be carrying on a construction site. As she tottered along on her stilettos.
The sad thing is, he probably thought of himself as a non-sexist - but he still saw the female stereotype, not the engineer.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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the giant cheeseburger
Shipmate
# 10942
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Posted
My sister definitely does a better job of parallel parking than me but my ability to not burn a piece of toast has her well and truly beaten when it comes to cooking. Why break just one stereotype when you can break two?
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
SECOND EDIT: But I frequently prefer women's tennis. It's not all about the perve factor.
How do your ears survive? The only time I've ever heard such horrible noises was when I shared a house with a bloke whose girlfriend loudly faked it.
[ 18. September 2013, 10:42: Message edited by: the giant cheeseburger ]
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If I give a homeopathy advocate a really huge punch in the face, can the injury be cured by giving them another really small punch in the face?
Posts: 4834 | From: Adelaide, South Australia. | Registered: Jan 2006
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
Yet, I hear all the time how I must be poor at X, Y, or Z because I have boobs. That's horseshit. and the reality is, these funnyguys know that, but for some reason they feel the need to perpetuate the stereotype.
It's because you have boobs. They're jealous.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
I was talking to a woman engineer the other week. She was telling me about an instance where she was discussing (with a male) the relative merits of a laptop or a tablet for use in the field. She favoured the tablet. 'Yes' agreed the other. 'And you can slip it in your handbag!'
Which she would be carrying on a construction site. As she tottered along on her stilettos.
The sad thing is, he probably thought of himself as a non-sexist - but he still saw the female stereotype, not the engineer.
Is it sexist for men to think of women as feminate and women of men as masculine? I'm not so sure. It's more likely that it's part of human nature, that we are wired to think that way.
Anyway, contrary to the myth that men can't multitask, I have no problem stratching both my nose and bum at the same time. How about having a conversation on a mobile phone and parallel parking, eh?
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
Yet, I hear all the time how I must be poor at X, Y, or Z because I have boobs. That's horseshit. and the reality is, these funnyguys know that, but for some reason they feel the need to perpetuate the stereotype.
It's because you have boobs. They're jealous.
Funny you should say that; I've been reading this stuff recently.
In her work, Melanie Klein found that the first object to be envied was the breast. This is primary envy, and if tolerated, and worked through, will lead to normal development. But when the experience of envy is excessive this can lead to a weakened ego. The mechanism of envy involves attacking the good breast, so that introjection can no longer occur. In envy, there is an aim to possess the good object, but when this is felt to be impossible, the aim becomes a need to spoil the goodness of the object, in order to remove the source of envious feelings.
David Hiles.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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the giant cheeseburger
Shipmate
# 10942
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Anyway, contrary to the myth that men can't multitask, I have no problem stratching both my nose and bum at the same time. How about having a conversation on a mobile phone and parallel parking, eh?
I think anything involving a mobile phone and control of a vehicle at the same time is a disaster regardless of sex or gender. 100% of the times (i.e. 1 of 1) I've been hit by a driver while cycling have involved a woman attempting to multitask text messaging and driving.
Thankfully she lost her license and had to use public transport (where she could message to her heart's content) instead for 18 months. It was so sweet seeing her on the bus and waving as I overtook the bus on the new bike she had to pay for!
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If I give a homeopathy advocate a really huge punch in the face, can the injury be cured by giving them another really small punch in the face?
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in American Football. Further, I hate cheap beer, and I think Jack Daniels tastes like mothballs. ... totally, 100%, stereotypical girl.
Or European.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
Sure, sure, but what Comet's saying is that this is becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. I'd like to see you untangle parking-inadequacy derived from lack of self-confidence from parking-inadequacy derived from ACTUAL lack of spatial awareness.
How and why would I do that? I expect that this is a skill that can be improved up to some ceiling value, that will be improved "automatically" by learning from typical driving experience, and for which the ceiling value is more than good enough for most practical purposes for most women and men. In other words, I don't see it as a pressing issue unless one wants to make one of it.
What goes on my nerves is this over-the-top defensiveness about any possible advantage men might actually have over women. Given that men and women are biologically distinct, there are bound to be some. And yes, there are bound to be some going the other way as well. Chill.
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
And before anyone else brings it up, yes, guys do have to put up with similar crap around stuff like multitasking. There's just a 'received wisdom' that men can't multi-task and people seem to be primed to notice instances of failure rather than success in this area.
And what if men are in fact somewhat worse at multi-tasking? Would the world bloody end? No, it would not. Maybe we can live with people being different, even if some of that difference is correlated with biological gender in a statistically significant manner?
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
Ah, multi-tasking: the art of doing several things badly.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Anyway, contrary to the myth that men can't multitask, I have no problem stratching both my nose and bum at the same time. How about having a conversation on a mobile phone and parallel parking, eh?
I think anything involving a mobile phone and control of a vehicle at the same time is a disaster regardless of sex or gender. 100% of the times (i.e. 1 of 1) I've been hit by a driver while cycling have involved a woman attempting to multitask text messaging and driving.
Thankfully she lost her license and had to use public transport (where she could message to her heart's content) instead for 18 months. It was so sweet seeing her on the bus and waving as I overtook the bus on the new bike she had to pay for!
Bloody hell. Around here they'd likely get a £60 fine. There'd only be any danger of losing a licence if they already had 9 points, and even then they can plead "exception hardship", which in some cases appears to amount to "I really like driving though your honour!"
Our roads are consequently chocker with people no sane system would let near a steering wheel, as I discover virtually every time I cycle to work.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
When I was in college in the 1950s, many of the male students told me I had the mind of a man. They thought they were paying me a compliment, but as far as I was concerned, they were telling me I was a freak.
As someone remarked upthread, the characteristics of men and of women, plotted separately, make a normal probability curve. If you superimpose the graph for men on the graph for women for any characteristic, you get an overlap.
I think there is a difference in the way the majority of men think and the way the majority of women think. Men are more likely to engage in step-by-step thinking, and women are more likely to begin with an overview. However, there are plenty of women who do step-by-step thinking and plenty of men who start with an overview. I think the reason that, in general, boys do better than girls in math is because math is presented in a strictly step-by-step fashion.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Is it sexist for men to think of women as feminate
- or 'feminine' as we say in English quote:
and women of men as masculine? I'm not so sure. It's more likely that it's part of human nature, that we are wired to think that way.
The point is the construct of what it is to be feminine - in this case, invariably handbag-toting. What was lacking was an appreciation that, in the workplace, she would be wearing work-appropriate clothing because she is an engineer.
All it takes is to look at the primary role the individual is fulfilling and make your assumptions based on that, not on their gender.
See if you can manage thinking along with the nose and bum thing.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
In my case I was 'bad at maths' because I was bullied by the teacher in my second year of secondary school. Up to then I was fairly good at it. Thanks to her, I was completely turned off maths as a subject and only discovered I liked some aspects of it at university - where we had to do statistics and Boolean logic and various odd bits of calculus...
This story suggests that the reason why boys are perceived as 'better' at maths than girls is gender bias - at the age of 7, girls outperform boys in all subjects although the gap is narrowest in maths and science.
[ 18. September 2013, 12:51: Message edited by: Jane R ]
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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the giant cheeseburger
Shipmate
# 10942
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Bloody hell. Around here they'd likely get a £60 fine. There'd only be any danger of losing a licence if they already had 9 points, and even then they can plead "exception hardship", which in some cases appears to amount to "I really like driving though your honour!"
It was on a public holiday weekend when demerit points are doubled. There was already one aggravating factor (the mobile phone) so adding a second one (maybe she failed a blood test) could well have been enough to go from a clean record to a disqualification in one hit, or she could have been on a provisional license when you only need one offence to get disqualified and no chance to use the one time only exemption.
I never really looked into it, I was just happy enough the job got done. Hopefully she had to start from a learner's permit again, graduating from that requires 100 hours of supervised driving in South Australia which is bloody hard to do if you're not a teenager with driving parents!
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If I give a homeopathy advocate a really huge punch in the face, can the injury be cured by giving them another really small punch in the face?
Posts: 4834 | From: Adelaide, South Australia. | Registered: Jan 2006
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
How about having a conversation on a mobile phone and parallel parking, eh?
Around here, that's illegal. Rather than a 'skill'.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
The answer is to bring up CHILDREN, not boys or girls.
My CHILDREN can cook, clean, iron, put up shelves, mow the lawn, clean out gutters, sew on a button, know to cut the bottom 2cm off cut flowers before putting them in a vase, change a tyre, mend a fan-belt. They can drive, park, check oil levels etc.
And new university accommodation has necessitated a quick lesson in making curtains...
Next task is to teach them simple plumbing (ball-cock repair), electrics, and brick-laying. I've already covered flat-pack furniture and basic carpentry.
No, I'm not a paragon, just think offspring should be prepared for LIFE regardless of gender - or have I got that wrong?
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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