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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: Bad taste
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Personally, I prefer reality dosed liberally with grace to spaced-out close-your-eyes-and-pretend-it-isn't-happening claptrap any day of the week.
Suggesting that it 'works for you' is surely the same as suggesting you are on a higher spiritual plain to all of the rest of us poor mortals, and that all we need to do to be holy is follow your example.
Bollocks.
Pain is real, death is real, grief is real. Nothing is achieved by pretending that it isn't there any more than a dead mouse disappears from under the carpet by constantly jumping on the lump.
C
[spelling]
[ 05. April 2005, 17:57: Message edited by: Cheesy* ]
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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A Feminine Force
Ship's Onager
# 7812
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Posted
Hi Cheesy,
That's funny, you using the term "mere mortals". Does part of you suspect I might have actually attained eternal life? I doubt it, but the choice of expression was kinda Freudian.
Are you saying I am not supposed to not take Christ at His word? Are you saying I should substitute His promise to me with the popular "accepted" perception of life, even though He went to the cross and rose from the grave and so proved that perception is flawed and that He is the King of Reality?
Should I be singing "Hallelujah He is risen, Death is swallowed in victory" but thinking "Bullpuckey, death is more powerful than Christ any old day because my loved one died. Christ can't do a thing about death."?
Should I be saying "Jesus promised me eternal life" but thinking "Unfortunately I have to be dead in order to obtain it."?
It's a logically untenable position for me. I hope you can see that. If the Gospel is true, then the accepted perception of reality and it are not measuring up.
I think that's why there's "doctrine", because the Gospel is in fact so powerfully and simply True in every sense of the word, that it HAS to be "spun" in order to fit people's experiences, rather than people should allow their life experiences to teach them the truth of the Gospel.
If you want different results, you have to do things differently. So I tried it the other way around, and decided to take the Gospel literally. And it works for me.
Shalom
FF
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C2C - The Cure for What Ails Ya?
Posts: 2115 | From: Kingdom of Heaven | Registered: Jul 2004
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Have we uncovered a new heresy?
There is a little bit of the Barefoot Doctor, a large dollop of Mary Baker Eddy, a streak of Gnosticism a mile wide, a superstructure of New Age misperceptions of Buddhism, a small flavour of neo-Paganism, and an underlying rigid Pelagianism.
Strange mixture.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
In the gospels (or at least the ones I have), the Christ weeps with those who weep, lifts up those of little faith, helps the rejected, heals the sick, walks and talks with the forgotten.
Nowhere does he suggest living in the unreal world you seem to inhabit where 'bad stuff' is just an illusion. Quite the opposite in fact.
I suggest to you that you are running from unpleasant realities and glossing over people's obvious pain with wooly mouthed platitudes that neither help or comfort them. Which is emphatically not what Christ did.
C
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by nicolemrw:
ok, i will add one other thing. i notice several people have said that their families do run pools on when someone's going to die and etc. but i haven't seen anyone saying that they wouldn't mind if total strangers ran a pool on when their loved ones would die, or etc.
If my loved one chose to be a public figure (which is the only way that I can imagine total strangers knowing or caring that they were going to die - and yes, I am willfully ignoring certain shameless recent events), then I wouldn't care.
Being a public figure has certain advantages and certain disadvantages. They knew that when they accepted the role. How strangers react to them is really none of my concern.
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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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A Feminine Force
Ship's Onager
# 7812
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Posted
Thank you Ken!
I accept the label of heretic with humblest gratitude. It's a true honor.
I have to laugh though, I never would have thought that on a Christian board, one could be honored with the title for saying "I tried the whole Gospel and I found it to be true".
I just can't win, it seems! LOL
I love you guys! You are the best! Thanks for everything you are and do, and for allowing me to share. It really is a stretch and you're awfully good sports. Exemplary Christians, in fact. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Much love and many hugs. ![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
FF
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C2C - The Cure for What Ails Ya?
Posts: 2115 | From: Kingdom of Heaven | Registered: Jul 2004
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by A Feminine Force:
I have to laugh though, I never would have thought that on a Christian board, one could be honored with the title for saying "I tried the whole Gospel and I found it to be true".
1. ITTWACW is the oldest and crappiest replies in the history of old and crap replies.
2. Suggesting that you have 'tried the whole gospel and found it to be true' is a hilarious claim to fame. I might just write that down.
Returning to the OP, I was wrong. The really offensive thing is not the wall-to-wall pope-tv, but this kind of attitude that suggests people's genuine grief is a sign of not 'living the whole gospel'.
C
[one day that Lord will bless me with the gift of spelling and good english]
[ 05. April 2005, 19:20: Message edited by: Cheesy* ]
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arse
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
quote:
The world is real, not some Gnostic stage-show put on by a mendacious godlet for the benefit of a super-spiritual elite of ex-hippy Pelagians. And Jesus quite clearly tells us in the Gospels that people do not die or suffer only because of they are greater sinners than anyone else.
How very ironic! One completely unprovable belief system casting aspersions on another!..and on a debate board! This last little dust-up is as fine an example of "bad taste" as can be found under the several OPs on the subject recently.
I'd find it rewarding to see more of an effort to find common ground with belief systems here than the petty, unending attempts to kick the crutches out from under each other.
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--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Hooker's Trick
Admin Emeritus and Guardian of the Gin
# 89
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Posted
First, I have to admit that I didn't find the Pope terribly interesting when he was alive, and I've only begun to find him interesting lately as a consequence of inescapable media coverage.
The appropriate response to this seemed to be participation in a Pope Death Sweetstake, which I alas didn't win.
I don't know the Pope, or anyone beloved to him so I didn't realise that this was in poor taste.
But then I remembered that death instantly confirms (mainly upon public figures) a great deal of callow concern from people who never knew the dead person and probably didn't care much about them when they were alive, but care a great deal about an unmissable opportunity to tell other people who ALSO didn't know the dead famous person that they are being horribly incorrect.
Which brings me back to this excellent question which received no answer:
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
This brings up the interesting question of "What is Bad Taste?" and who gets to define it.
I also have to wonder what the difference is between "Bad Taste" and "something I just don't like."
quote:
Coot said
I believe it reflects a barbaric and degenerate culture which, as a past-time, places bets on when someone is going to die.
Which reminds me that in George III's lifetime, and during a prolonged, painful, and degrading illness no less, his courtiers and even members of the Royal Family placed wagers on the likelihood of his recovery from madness and whether or not he would survive. And this in what used quaintly to be called the Age of Elegance.
quote:
ken, getting his Holy Scripture confused
How did he teach you that?
He wept when Lazarus died.
Resurrection is not immunity from death.
Whoops. Lazarus was revived, not Resurrected. Lazarus died again (kind of sucks for Lazarus, if you think about it). Our Lord was Resurrected, and did not, nor has, nor will die again.
quote:
posted by nicolemrw
i haven't seen anyone saying that they wouldn't mind if total strangers ran a pool on when their loved ones would die, or etc.
Put me on record for not minding if total strangers ran a sweepstake about a loved one's death. If they are strangers, why would I care what they do? And if someone I know is running a sweepstake, I want in on it.
Two last things. I thought the Blessed Sacrament Web Cam thread was a massive piss-take. And yes I wondered aloud whether the Pope would slide right off the red stretcher when they displayed him to the crowds (I wondered if he wasn't perhaps sewn on).
Apologies for length.
HT
Posts: 6735 | From: Gin Lane | Registered: May 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
quote:
ken, getting his Holy Scripture confused
How did he teach you that?
He wept when Lazarus died.
Resurrection is not immunity from death.
Whoops. Lazarus was revived, not Resurrected. Lazarus died again (kind of sucks for Lazarus, if you think about it). Our Lord was Resurrected, and did not, nor has, nor will die again.
I never said Lazarus was resurrected or living a deathless life - but that Jesus wept when he died. Illustration of real nature of stuff.
And Jesus doesn't need to die again & neither will we after the general resurrection.
We are promised resurrection, which may involve having to die first. Not immunity from that first death.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Laura
General nuisance
# 10
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Posted
ken:
Give it up. AFF is better than we are. You PROVED that you believe it yourself by using the phrase "mere mortals" to describe us. Besides, it's been so long since we had such a credible substitute for a very-long-departed old-boards denizen whose name began with a small "b" that it's kindof refreshing.
AFF: Good luck with the whole immortality thing!
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Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm
Posts: 16883 | From: East Coast, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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Dave Marshall
Shipmate
# 7533
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
How very ironic! One completely unprovable belief system casting aspersions on another!..
My thoughts exactly. I just didn't see much point in commenting, what with people being so sure their beliefs are right...
Bad taste seems somehow trivial in comparison.
Posts: 4763 | From: Derbyshire Dales | Registered: Jun 2004
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Duo Seraphim*
Sea lawyer
# 3251
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Posted
I find it odd, that in a thread about Bad Taste we have once again moved into a discussion about immortality-through-the-power-of-positive-thinking. Back on track please or start a new thread on this tangent.
There are some overly personal comments being made in pursuit of this particular tangent, too. You know who you are.
Duo Seraphim, Purgatory Host
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2^8, eight bits to a byte
Posts: 3967 | From: Sydney Australia | Registered: Aug 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
This has been the best Hell thread for weeks.
Strange its in Purgatory.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
Purgatory is the new Hell.
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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