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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Hell: Never enough
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
quote:
As for US-bashing: You poor babies. I can see now how criticism of the first world is just so oppressive and unfair. I shall stop forthwith.
You were clearly raised by baboons, you dumbass, or do you really not understand the difference between "US-bashing" and criticism?
Cecil Almighty, give me strength to deal with the terminally ignorant among us. Amen.
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raspberry Rabbit:
I've little time for people justifying conspicuous consumption and stilted social structures because they also give to charities, support little Koko in Malawi and intend to leave a certain amount of their estate to the SPCA
Conspicuous Consumption: Label applied to the lifestyle of someone whose lifestyle you are envious of. Most often used by over-pampered scions of the middle and upper-middle class who have no real idea what poverty is. See middle class socialist brat.
Sieg
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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halibut
Shipmate
# 3115
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
You were clearly raised by baboons, you dumbass, or do you really not understand the difference between "US-bashing" and criticism?
Cecil Almighty, give me strength to deal with the terminally ignorant among us. Amen.
*bow*
I shall send your fond wishes to my parents.
In the mean time, I'm unutterably fed up with whingy first-world gits who, on the basis of a whiff of criticism of collective actions, get into a ridiculous little snit about "oooh, they're bashing us! They're trying to make me feel guilty. It's not faaiiir"
I know damn well the difference between criticism and bashing. This is precisely the reason that I'm so annoyed.
H
Posts: 59 | From: Cape Town | Registered: Jul 2002
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
Oh please, if it was just a matter of "the US government does X, and it's wrong because of Y and Z" it would be FINE. That ISN'T what we're talking about. What we're talking about is "the American people are lazy/selfish/[fill in the blank]", and I'm sick and tired of it. Now, if (the general) you engage in the former, then this whole rant isn't directed at you. If you have EVER said the latter, then shut your freakin' piehole and go pleasure yourself with a syphilitic goat.
[ 25. October 2002, 19:04: Message edited by: Erin ]
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Scot
Deck hand
# 2095
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
go pleasure yourself with a syphilitic goat.
If you can't find one, we'll extend a little more charity and send you one free of charge. No thanks expected.
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“Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 9515 | From: Southern California | Registered: Jan 2002
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Presleyterian
Shipmate
# 1915
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Posted
A syphilitic goat? Now that would be an interesting addition to the Heifer Project (a group of which I, too, am a fan).
Here's my question for Halibut. S/he wrote: quote:
Personally I'm sick of my tax money (off my limited salary paid in a devalued currency in a poor(ish) country) being used to subsidise the First World. How does that happen? By our running several excellent universities, many of whose graduates run off to first world careers as soon as they graduate.
How precisely is it the fault of the First World if there's a brain drain out of South Africa? If a First World company recruits talented young South Africans, that seems to be interpreted as evidence of high-handedness and cultural imperialism. If, however, a First World company institutes a policy of refusing to hire talented young South Africans on the ground that they have a moral obligation to use their gifts in service to their own country, I doubt people would be happy with that either.
On this particular point, isn't your dispute with talented young South Africans, and not the First World?
Posts: 2450 | From: US | Registered: Dec 2001
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
Conspicuous Consumption: Label applied to the lifestyle of someone whose lifestyle you are envious of. Most often used by over-pampered scions of the middle and upper-middle class who have no real idea what poverty is. See middle class socialist brat .
Oh, bravo, Siegfried! Well played!
While Halibut has another tantrum:
quote:
In the mean time, I'm unutterably fed up with whingy first-world gits who, on the basis of a whiff of criticism of collective actions, get into a ridiculous little snit about "oooh, they're bashing us! They're trying to make me feel guilty. It's not faaiiir"
The last time I checked, envy was one of the Seven Deadlies. The fact that you can blame America for a brain drain in South Africa (!) shows the extent of your derangement on this issue (at least).
The people of the United States do a tremendous amount of generous good in the world, as individuals, as churches, and even -- yes! -- as a legal entity. We can't do it all. And there's no substitute for personal responsibility, for that matter.
quote:
I know damn well the difference between criticism and bashing. This is precisely the reason that I'm so annoyed.
Well, that's the reason we're annoyed, too, since if you DO know the difference, you really ought to try demonstrating same.
Rossweisse // wondering what happened to the steadfast Brits of yore
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012
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Posted
[Complete tangent]
quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
Rossweisse // wondering what happened to the steadfast Brits of yore
Steadfast in support of whom, or of what cause? Not wishing to put words into your mouth, but I'm guessing you mean Brits in support of America? If this is the case, there are still plenty of those around (whether that is a good thing or not is a matter for another thread). Please note that most of the opposition on this thread is coming from non-British residents. Do not start another Anglo-American war over this rant.
Viki
[/Complete tangent]
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“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”
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Raspberry Rabbit
Will preach for food
# 3080
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Posted
also spracht Siegfried
quote:
Conspicuous Consumption: Label applied to the lifestyle of someone whose lifestyle you are envious of. Most often used by over-pampered scions of the middle and upper-middle class who have no real idea what poverty is. See middle class socialist brat.
Quick, Siefried - lock your house. Conrad Black has done snuck in and posted under your name. He forgot to use the word 'snivelling'. He usually does that.
Now - if they were from within the middle and upper classes and their livelihood was wrapped up with the consumption patterns of the west then it wouldn't be envy would it. And if they were looking at the west from the outside then they could conceivably know something about poverty.
N'est ce pas?
Raspberry Rabbit
Montreal, QC
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...naked pirates not respecting boundaries...
(((BLOG)))
Posts: 2215 | From: In the middle of France | Registered: Jul 2002
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Raspberry Rabbit
Will preach for food
# 3080
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Posted
also spracht Rosseweisse (also)
quote:
wondering what happened to the steadfast Brits of yore
Hmmm. They're the ones who lost India, non?
Raspberry Rabbit
Montreal, QC
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...naked pirates not respecting boundaries...
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Posts: 2215 | From: In the middle of France | Registered: Jul 2002
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Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raspberry Rabbit:
also spracht Siegfried
quote:
Conspicuous Consumption: Label applied to the lifestyle of someone whose lifestyle you are envious of. Most often used by over-pampered scions of the middle and upper-middle class who have no real idea what poverty is. See middle class socialist brat.
Quick, Siefried - lock your house. Conrad Black has done snuck in and posted under your name. He forgot to use the word 'snivelling'. He usually does that.
Now - if they were from within the middle and upper classes and their livelihood was wrapped up with the consumption patterns of the west then it wouldn't be envy would it. And if they were looking at the west from the outside then they could conceivably know something about poverty.
N'est ce pas?
Raspberry Rabbit
Montreal, QC
(Bold mine).
Hey, RR, sure you don't have a reading problem? Cause Sieg talked about middle and upper-middle class people. And you somehow translated that into middle and upper class people. Whole different kettles of fish there.
[Gross generalisation]
Upper-middle class is stuff like doctors, lawyers, accountants, white-collar professionals, etc.
Upper class is peers, serious rich entrepeneurs (think Branson and Murdoch), landowners, etc.
[/Gross generalisation]
I am (conceivably) upper-middle class as my father is a middle manager at a huge pharmeceuticals company. Conspicuous consumption is a label I might apply to Tara Palmer-Tomkin (or whatever her name is), one of the 'It' girls. She goes on spending sprees with 'daddy's money', and buys Harrods basically. She'll drink nothing but champagne, only wear one-off/originals, and only date men who are worth a eight figure sum at least.
Hope this helps you - creating a strawman shows the paucity of your argument, don't you think?
Viki
[Added summat.]
[ 26. October 2002, 01:37: Message edited by: sarkycow ]
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“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”
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Raspberry Rabbit
Will preach for food
# 3080
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Posted
Sarkycow said
quote:
Hey, RR, sure you don't have a reading problem? Cause Sieg talked about middle and upper-middle class people. And you somehow translated that into middle and upper class people. Whole different kettles of fish there.
Well since we're splitting hairs here, what she said was:
quote:
Conspicuous Consumption: Label applied to the lifestyle of someone whose lifestyle you are envious of. Most often used by over-pampered scions of the middle and upper-middle class who have no real idea what poverty is. See middle class socialist brat .
Bolds mine, this time. More later - am over in Heaven trying to understand why people think romance is dead. Must have something to do with Erin's syphlitic goat.
Poor lamb
Raspberry Rabbit
Montreal, QC
{fixed UBB code. Because I Care.}
[ 26. October 2002, 19:27: Message edited by: tomb ]
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...naked pirates not respecting boundaries...
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Posts: 2215 | From: In the middle of France | Registered: Jul 2002
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Raspberry Rabbit
Will preach for food
# 3080
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Posted
Fine - replace upper with upper-middle. The rest remains the same. Their lifestyles are still wrapped up with foolish patterns of consumption (although I'm now regretting speaking of 'conspicuous consumption' because I gave the impression that the problem was one of the proclivities of the rich and famous when, in fact, the problem is a pattern of unsustainable collective consumption in the west)
mea culpa
Raspberry Rabbit
Montreal, QC
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...naked pirates not respecting boundaries...
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Posts: 2215 | From: In the middle of France | Registered: Jul 2002
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papillon
Shipmate
# 1389
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
Oh please, if it was just a matter of "the US government does X, and it's wrong because of Y and Z" it would be FINE. That ISN'T what we're talking about. What we're talking about is "the American people are lazy/selfish/[fill in the blank]", and I'm sick and tired of it. Now, if (the general) you engage in the former, then this whole rant isn't directed at you. If you have EVER said the latter, then shut your freakin' piehole and go pleasure yourself with a syphilitic goat.
How amusing (...)
You know it's funny, Erin, Scot and others complain about some people who say all Americans are this that and the other, while you guys quite happilly tell people with questioning minds on these posts to go fuck themselves, find a goat etc. Now, imagine if those comentators in the media etc that do unfortunately offer blanket unthinking criticism of the US, told the whole United States to go fuck itself or assorted farm animals? I imagine the response would be nuclear (literally). I suggest Erin, Scot and Rossweille take it easy, relax, put your feet up, perhaps watch a a little tv, read a book, you know, 'chill'. Don't you see you're falling right into the trap, when someone criticises the US? I mean Jesus didn't get much thanks for all the charity and help he gave people a couple thousand years ago, but he did it anyway. That's the whole point. Sure it would be nice for countries and people who the West gives aid to to say thank-you, and alot of them do. But should we only give to those people who are going to say thanks and never criticise us? Do some of you think that you're 'buying' the goodwill of poorer people at home and overseas, buying their silence and never-ending support with aid donations?
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"..for active love compared with contemplative love is a hard and awesome business." Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov.
Posts: 66 | From: London GB | Registered: Sep 2001
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'Justus'
Shipmate
# 2424
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Posted
MINOR TANGENT
Ok, I know this is a discussion in Hell, and for what it's worth Marmont I think it was a brave, honest and good post.
My Problem is the fact that although this is Hell, the debate so far has included (in no particular order):
"dumbass"
"Asshole"
"fuck you"
"go fuck yourself"
"Dickweed"
Am I missing the point about this being a Christian website ?
I'm not a prude, can swear with the best of yo muthas, but am kinda wondering if this is what it's going to be then what's the point of the ship and what makes it different from everyonther freakin' place on the net ?
Posts: 295 | From: York | Registered: Mar 2002
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papillon
Shipmate
# 1389
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Presleyterian:
Here's my question for Halibut. S/he wrote: quote:
Personally I'm sick of my tax money (off my limited salary paid in a devalued currency in a poor(ish) country) being used to subsidise the First World. How does that happen? By our running several excellent universities, many of whose graduates run off to first world careers as soon as they graduate.
How precisely is it the fault of the First World if there's a brain drain out of South Africa? If a First World company recruits talented young South Africans, that seems to be interpreted as evidence of high-handedness and cultural imperialism. If, however, a First World company institutes a policy of refusing to hire talented young South Africans on the ground that they have a moral obligation to use their gifts in service to their own country, I doubt people would be happy with that either.
On this particular point, isn't your dispute with talented young South Africans, and not the First World?
In my view the problem goes deeper than that Presleytarian. The European Union and the United States, who between them make up over two-thirds of the world economy, with less than one-sixth of the population, erect trade barriers that prevent poorer countires like South Africa from selling their goods to us competitively. Meanwhile, we, either by direct pressure of via the IMF, expect these immature economies to apply free-market economics and 0% trade tariffs. So the reason why in the first place a South-African might be so attracted to a job in the US or Europe, is that by closing off large sections of our wealthy economies to south African products (especially agriculture, Europe and the US subsidise their own by hundreds of billions of dollars/euros) South Africa cannot compete on an even playing field, that makes her poorer and less able to grow her economy quickly enough to catch up with us. It's obviously not all our faults (and where it is, more so on our governments than we, the peoples), but if our govt's only opened our markets more and cut down on our subsidies it would have such an incredible benefit, that many countries would no longer need our aid and would be able to earn their own living legitimately through trade with us.
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"..for active love compared with contemplative love is a hard and awesome business." Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov.
Posts: 66 | From: London GB | Registered: Sep 2001
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
papillon, you are an idiot. I mean, you must have clinically scored in the "idiot" range on an IQ test in the past. Either that, or you're one of the monkeys that's trying to type the works of Shakespeare. At any rate, I don't want anybody to thank me, or the US. I just want them to stop blaming us for everything. Or are you really too stupid to understand this?
makesachange: all we want to do is not be like every other boring Christian site on the web. Which is why the eternally-debated no-resolution subjects are relegated to Dead Horses, and why we don't get our collective knickers in a twist when people here are not Stepford Christians.
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sarkycow:
Steadfast in support of whom, or of what cause? Not wishing to put words into your mouth, but I'm guessing you mean Brits in support of America? ...
No, no, more like the sturdy, pull-up-your-socks-and-get-on-with-it, non-whinging, realistic Brits (I am counting residents of non-US former British Empire countries in this; it seems to me that they do share certain thought patterns) of yore.
Their support of America is not the issue (at least for me); the complacency, smugness and NSL (non-specific loathing) of my country, its people and its place in the world that I seem to be seeing here is.
The United States is far from perfect, politically, socially, or in any other way (although we do have the world's best pizza). We are a rich country, and a generous country. While I personally deplore my government's attempts to act as Policeman to the World, when we send in our soldiers it is (I firmly believe) not to build ourselves an empire, but to help the innocent and defeat evil. (Yes, al-Queda is evil, IMO.) We don't ask for repayment; we even help to rebuild our erstwhile enemies.
But for some folks, it seems, nothing we do is ever good enough, and no sacrifice we make is ever great enough. We're supposed to feel guilty for living in a rich country, even though we are a generous country. No sensible person ever expects gratitude, but ankle-biting goes a bit too far.
Finally, it is NOT my intention to start an Anglo-American flame war. I love Britain and (most) things British. But I do feel obliged to respond to sweepingly anti-American sentiments, at least some of the time, regardless of the originators.
Rossweisse // Rudyard Kipling, where are you now that we need you?
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raspberry Rabbit:
Sarkycow said
quote:
Hey, RR, sure you don't have a reading problem? Cause Sieg talked about middle and upper-middle class people. And you somehow translated that into middle and upper class people. Whole different kettles of fish there.
Well since we're splitting hairs here, what she said was:
quote:
Conspicuous Consumption: Label applied to the lifestyle of someone whose lifestyle you are envious of. Most often used by over-pampered scions of the middle and upper-middle class who have no real idea what poverty is. See middle class socialist brat .
Bolds mine, this time. More later - am over in Heaven trying to understand why people think romance is dead. Must have something to do with Erin's syphlitic goat.
Poor lamb
Well, for starters I'm male.
Secondly, 'Middle-class Socialist Brat' is a reference to a song by Oingo Boingo about the sort of person who goes on about the plight of the oppressed lower classes and working class but has never done a lick of real work in his/her own life.
Sieg
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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Raspberry Rabbit
Will preach for food
# 3080
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Posted
Following a fairly defensible post by Papillon, Erin wrote:
quote:
papillon, you are an idiot. I mean, you must have clinically scored in the "idiot" range on an IQ test in the past. Either that, or you're one of the monkeys that's trying to type the works of Shakespeare.
Erin, find the dial above the bed and turn it 'down'
Raspberry Rabbit
Montreal, QC
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...naked pirates not respecting boundaries...
(((BLOG)))
Posts: 2215 | From: In the middle of France | Registered: Jul 2002
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
Yo, Rabbit, my response was to the post timestamped 16:02, in which he spouted unadulterated crap.
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Ley Druid
Ship's chemist
# 3246
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Posted
I agree with Scot, Erin, RuthW and all the other Americans.
Down here we don't concern ourselves too much with "brain drain", but if beautiful women want to come to South Beach from all over the world, I don't see what's wrong with that. Lord knows I could buy myself a few more drinks with the generous tip money I leave, but that's just my little way of quote:
trying to care for the whole world at the expense of my own family and getting nothing but grief for it --what Marmot said
quote:
I don't want anybody to thank me, or the US. I just want them to stop blaming us for everything. --what Erin said
Proud to be an American. I love George Bush.
Posts: 1188 | Registered: Aug 2002
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blackbird
Shipmate
# 1387
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Posted
yes, siegfried, i haven't heard that song, but i could imagine there could be a verse about how so many champions for the poor don't tend to have any poor "friends" (unless you include the out-of-work phd friend). or if they do, they don't emphasize it in certain company unless it's to their advantage.
Posts: 1236 | From: usa | Registered: Sep 2001
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
Is this another American issue? Isn't this just the rich moaning about how they subsidise the poor? Happens everywhere.
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
No, Qlib, this is NOT about the rich bitching about subsidizing the poor. The light from that discussion would take billions of years to reach this one. It's about being told, CONSTANTLY, by people who are comparatively not that far behind us in the riches stakes, how awful we are. This has nothing to do with what is said in so-called "third world" countries, and CERTAINLY nothing to do with the amount of aid that the US drops elsewhere. It has EVERYTHING to do with what other first-worlders -- who desperately need to remove the forests growing out of their own eyes -- expect from US.
Jesus, is it really this hard to understand? ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
[ 26. October 2002, 23:18: Message edited by: Erin ]
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Scot
Deck hand
# 2095
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Posted
What you sanctimonious MCSB's (thank you, Siegfried) just don't get is that we don't want anything from you. We don't want your congratulations, adulations, thanks, condemnations, exhortations or lectures. We just want you to leave us alone.
Our personal sacrifices are none of your business. Until you can muster some collective moral high ground, our national level of charity is none of your business either.
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“Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 9515 | From: Southern California | Registered: Jan 2002
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
Yeah, well.... substitute 'Britain' for 'US' and you'll hear exactly the same thing being said in British saloon bars. It's the price of privilege. Of course, I know there are poor people in both countries. And I know we all work flat out to save the world all the live long day ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) so I guess no-one will mind (or even notice) if we take the odd half-day off occasionally. Or treat ourselves to the occasional little extravagance such as air-conditioned/centrally heated housing or fresh vegetables flown half-way round the globe to fill our supermarket shelves - oh yes, or subsidising the sale of arms to our poor brothers and sisters who need them so desperately. How many of us w*rk our butts off for that noble cause?
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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Presleyterian
Shipmate
# 1915
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Posted
Papillon wrote: quote:
...but if our govt's only opened our markets more and cut down on our subsidies it would have such an incredible benefit, that many countries would no longer need our aid and would be able to earn their own living legitimately through trade with us.
Well, boy howdy, Papillon, I think you just quoted from the Republican Party platform.
Posts: 2450 | From: US | Registered: Dec 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Qlib:
... so I guess no-one will mind (or even notice) if we take the odd half-day off occasionally. Or treat ourselves to the occasional little extravagance such as air-conditioned/centrally heated housing...
In most of the American south air-conditioning is not a luxury; it's a necessity. Most people find it impossible to sleep when the termperature in their room is ninety degrees F, and the humidity is high. If they don't sleep well, they are not productive at work the next day. The South was an economically depressed region until air-conditioning became widespread.
In the same way, in areas where the winter temperatures normally reach twenty below zero, central heating is not a luxury.
When I lived in Ireland, the difference between the highest temperature in summer and the lowest in winter was a matter of about fifty degrees. When I lived in New Hampshire, it was a matter of one hundred, twenty-five degrees. In Britain, air-conditioning and central heating may be luxuries; in many parts of the US they're not.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
The hypocrisy on this thread is too much. I invoke the spirit of Cecil the Ignorance Slayer in the hopes that some of his aura will flow over some of you.
I quit.
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Raspberry Rabbit
Will preach for food
# 3080
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Posted
Rossweisse says
quote:
No, no, more like the sturdy, pull-up-your-socks-and-get-on-with-it, non-whinging, realistic Brits (I am counting residents of non-US former British Empire countries in this; it seems to me that they do share certain thought patterns) of yore.
What a lot of adjectives! So what is this drivel about 'sturdy brits of yore' and 'Oh, well played!' and 'Rudyard Kipling, where are you now that we need you?'
Sturdy brits of yore?
You mean all those women with large hands and prominent adam's apples who delighted in cold showers and coached girls' field hockey?
quote:
While I personally deplore my government's attempts to act as Policeman to the World, when we send in our soldiers it is (I firmly believe) not to build ourselves an empire, but to help the innocent and defeat evil.
If the second part of the sentence is what you believe, when it is that you deplore your government's attempts to act as Policeman to the World?
quote:
But for some folks, it seems, nothing we do is ever good enough, and no sacrifice we make is ever great enough.
Right - we're back to the main point of the thread which is how we've all been stabbed in the backs by the ungrateful recipients of our charity and betrayed by the pampered brats in our own society who spend their lives clipping daddy's coupons.
Onward!
Raspberry Rabbit
Montreal, QC
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...naked pirates not respecting boundaries...
(((BLOG)))
Posts: 2215 | From: In the middle of France | Registered: Jul 2002
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Deserted
Shipmate
# 3035
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Posted
It must be hard being Erin!
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There is a class of people who are pure in their own eyes, and yet are not washed from their own filth. (Not you and me of course!)Proverbs 30:12
Posts: 154 | From: High Desert, USA | Registered: Jul 2002
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marmot
Mountain mammal
# 479
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raspberry Rabbit:
Right - we're back to the main point of the thread which is how we've all been stabbed in the backs by the ungrateful recipients of our charity.
Except that it wasn't my point. I didn't make it clear enough for everyone, but Scot did very nicely on my behalf. We do what we can, we give what we can.
After that, a simple acknowledgement, not of our giving, but of our basic humanity and capacity for decent behavior, just like yours, is all that I want. Can't do it? Well, I'm sure you're doing your best, right?
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Join me in "The Legion of Bad Monkeys"
Posts: 2754 | From: The land of Saint Damien | Registered: Jun 2001
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Deserted
Shipmate
# 3035
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Posted
That's okay papillion. About your earlier post about people still holding Britains toes to the fire because of their past imperialism. Everyone gets over it eventually. Rarely do I hear people criticizing Rome for their old empire days...or the mongol hordes, or the Vikings, or etc. Like Rabbit said, you can't be number one for ever... eventually comes the decline. Usually starts with a large smattering of arrogance...wouldn't you agree.
Hey Scot, presuming to know things about other people know about the world is how this ship of fools is played. someone writes twenty words, someone assumes two hundred words about the first twenty, someone else blames the first for something the second said etc. Then someone else assumes the subject is "blaming others" when it is about twenty words and vehemently that blaming others is wrong. Then something is said about america or britain blaming someone for something, then it becomes another us/brit thread. Holy books could be written this way. Of course you would need an editor I guess.
Limitations everywhere, reducing intelligent opinion sharing into scurrilous accusations, namecalling, profanity and goat fucking. So this is what he was talking about. Praise Jesus.
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There is a class of people who are pure in their own eyes, and yet are not washed from their own filth. (Not you and me of course!)Proverbs 30:12
Posts: 154 | From: High Desert, USA | Registered: Jul 2002
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Deserted
Shipmate
# 3035
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Posted
I dunno Marmot. You know how it is with generalizations.....well... they're general. Because of that they are usually half baked. Besides guilt is overrated.
I've wondered if authentic actions ever need to be defended from the blarney stones of others. Might not even recognize the stones as they are being thrown.
Let go of some of the responsibility you seem to be feeling for every ill in the world. Seems to me you are falling prey to the trap the accusers are setting for you. Life is Hell.
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There is a class of people who are pure in their own eyes, and yet are not washed from their own filth. (Not you and me of course!)Proverbs 30:12
Posts: 154 | From: High Desert, USA | Registered: Jul 2002
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Thankyou Kenwritez, for your long and detailed post on charity fundraising methods (on page 1 - it has taken me quite a while to catch up with this thread!)
Now look at the charity mailings from the recipient's point of view. You get a mailing out of the blue, read it and think it is a good idea. So you write a cheque for what you can and send it. The flyer you have to put in with the cheque has your name and address pre-printed on it. So you then receive another mailing, and another, and another. The message you feel you get isn't: 'Thank you so much for your donation', it is 'Hey you haven't sent enough, now we want some more!' It is quite disheartening and makes you feel like not giving to them in the future.
I have tried enclosing a cheque without the flyer, but I think once you give once your name is on a centralised mailing list. Surely the people who you should be targeting with the extra mailings are those who haven't given anything yet - not those who have already generously given?
Maybe the best thing (what I shall do in future) is to put money in collecting tins rather than by cheque. That way it is truly anonymous.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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The Machine Elf
Irregular polytope
# 1622
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Posted
Some of us Brits do try to be stalwart, but our sense of fair play sometimes gets the better of us. And losing the taxes from large parts of north America didn't help our influence on the world ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
The UK government is currently trying to encourage it european neighbours to take a more active role both in world policing and in development aid. Or at least says it is. In response the US gov't protested that the EU is organizing its military as a cohesive force outside of it's NATO voting rights.
The USA does get blamed for the value system behind it's official policies, for example expending polluting energy (e.g. road and air transport, air-conditioning) in order to promote its own economy apparently irrespective of any environmental impact. On the over hand, it has one of the widest ranges of sustainable energy facilities of any nation, having installations in mountains for hydro, hot spots for geothermal and deserts for solar energy.
As democracies, the US and UK insist that the authority of its officials is based the consent of the populace, so the people get blamed for the actions of the officials. That a minority of the people work against such policies doesn't often get publicized, though some such organizations (e.g. greenpeace) are international and have their own propaganda networks, so we are aware that not all US citizens support such policies.
With respect to American pizza, in the UK fast-food suppliers of 'American Style' pizza (which may or may not be related) are being criticized for the amount of cheese and sweetened tomato in their products being a cause of obesity, so you all may be in for even more flak.
TME (Brit, who washes in cold water each morning)
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Elves of any kind are strange folk.
Posts: 1298 | From: the edge of the deep green sea | Registered: Oct 2001
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marmot
Mountain mammal
# 479
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Machine Elf:
On the over hand, it has one of the widest ranges of sustainable energy facilities of any nation, having installations in mountains for hydro, hot spots for geothermal and deserts for solar energy.
Don't forget "windmill farms" in the northern plains, as well. The program to buy into wind power is very popular. It is common for elementary schools to use the money gained from recycling aluminum cans to buy a share of wind power.
quote:
With respect to American pizza, in the UK fast-food suppliers of 'American Style' pizza (which may or may not be related) are being criticized for the amount of cheese and sweetened tomato in their products being a cause of obesity, so you all may be in for even more flak.
A suggestion: vote with your feet. If sales are low, those places will disappear in a hurry.
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Join me in "The Legion of Bad Monkeys"
Posts: 2754 | From: The land of Saint Damien | Registered: Jun 2001
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Qlib:
...Or treat ourselves to the occasional little extravagance such as air-conditioned/centrally heated housing...
And you live....where? When the summer temperatures (and humidity) regularly top 100, and when the winter temps spend weeks well below zero, these things are not an "extravagance." Your statement is sanctimonious claptrap.
![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
Rossweisse // now enjoying those few precious weeks between "house sealed up" seasons
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raspberry Rabbit:
You mean all those women with large hands and prominent adam's apples who delighted in cold showers and coached girls' field hockey?
Oh, so you're a general misogynist as well as a kneejerk anti-American?
Please read for meaning next time.
quote:
Onward!
And, apparently, downward...
Rossweisse // from hypocrites and pious twits, good Lord deliver us
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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Raspberry Rabbit
Will preach for food
# 3080
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Posted
Neither - haven't said a single anti-american thing in the entire thread. Have attempted to limited my references to the 'first world'. If you want to pull them down around your own heads, fine, but I'm not doing that.
You're just so funny, Rossweisse, with your little uber-anglophile quips - like you're longing for days gone by. I guess that's a high church Episcopalian thing.
Mysogynist? Nah.....
RR
MTL
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...naked pirates not respecting boundaries...
(((BLOG)))
Posts: 2215 | From: In the middle of France | Registered: Jul 2002
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Hull Hound
Shipmate
# 2140
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Scot:
Until you can muster some collective moral high ground, our national level of charity is none of your business either.
Erin & Scot are too obviously right about this one. I say this only in the understanding that we are all shits.
I’ve just finished Ghandi on DVD and I shall fast unto death unless you all agree with me.
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ahhh ... Bisto!
Posts: 1167 | From: Hull | Registered: Jan 2002
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hull Hound:
I?ve just finished Ghandi on DVD and I shall fast unto death unless you all agree with me.
Is that a promise?
![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Hull Hound
Shipmate
# 2140
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Posted
Upon my bamboo staff it is.
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ahhh ... Bisto!
Posts: 1167 | From: Hull | Registered: Jan 2002
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Raspberry Rabbit
Will preach for food
# 3080
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Posted
Actually the level of charitable giving in the United States is extremely high. The level of corporate giving to charitable concerns is also very high.
Too bad, in a way, that the questions in the OP can't be answered simply by reference to levels of charitable giving.
Raspberry Rabbit
Montreal, QC
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...naked pirates not respecting boundaries...
(((BLOG)))
Posts: 2215 | From: In the middle of France | Registered: Jul 2002
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Scot
Deck hand
# 2095
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hull Hound:
Erin & Scot are too obviously right about this one. I say this only in the understanding that we are all shits.
Just think of all the trouble we could have saved if only you'd realized this sooner.
scot
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“Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 9515 | From: Southern California | Registered: Jan 2002
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Ley Druid
Ship's chemist
# 3246
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Posted
Once again Americans have demonstrated a keen sense for irony and erudite diction. I can't imagine how everyone else will recover from their sense of inferiority. At least maybe they'll quote:
stop blaming us for everything. --what Erin said
Posts: 1188 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hull Hound:
...I’ve just finished Ghandi on DVD and I shall fast unto death unless you all agree with me.
Go for it!
![[Devil]](graemlins/devil3.gif)
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raspberry Rabbit:
...You're just so funny, Rossweisse, with your little uber-anglophile quips - like you're longing for days gone by. I guess that's a high church Episcopalian thing.
Erin, could we please have an "Irony" smiley? (And I was an English lit major, which helps with that sort of thing. Now stop it RIGHT NOW, or I shall quote large chunks of Jane Austen at you.)
quote:
Mysogynist? Nah.....
I breathlessly await the evidence, although I will admit that we're wandering off-topic on that one.
Rossweisse // ho-hum
![[Snore]](graemlins/snore.gif)
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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Zeke
Ship's Inquirer
# 3271
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Posted
Okay, several people have already mentioned this, but where I live we have 4 and a half to 5 months over 100F. It is illegal here to offer a place for rent that has no air conditioning. We certainly don't consider it an extravagance either.
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No longer the Bishop of Durham
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If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be without it? --Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 5259 | From: Deep in the American desert | Registered: Sep 2002
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