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Source: (consider it) Thread: MW: Bizarre Practices The Second: Protestants
Chapelhead*

Ship’s Photographer
# 1143

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Oh dear, I've just realised that my last post makes it sound as though I wore a dress to get baptised .

I meant that candidates of both sexes were instructed to wear swimming costumes under their other clothes when getting baptised.

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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!


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Hope
Shipmate
# 81

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When two of my friends, one male and one female, were baptised, they both wore thick white baptismal robes.

When my husband was baptised he wore shorts and T-shirt.

Hope

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"Why does the water glow like that?"
-"The dream magic of the sea."
-"Phosphorescent algae."


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daisymay

St Elmo's Fire
# 1480

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Chapelhead,
you're bringing back memories! My white overall/dress had pennies sewn into the hem to prevent it ballooning up, and I remember being told for the same reason to walk very slowly down the steps so the water would gradually seep up it and hold it down.

Also instructions to lean back without bending my knees and the water would bounce me back up - which it did. The minister wore a black academic robe I think, ( ), but it was a thin one, not the usual heavy one he wore to preach.

What did you lot do about drying? I was whisked off to a vestry where there was a tin bath to stand in and drip. But in Westbourne Grove, they had 2 vestries, men and women, and not only did the floor-boards come up to reveal the baptistry, but there were lead-lined sections of floor which led all the way to the vestries from the platform. The ancient (long disused) white women's robes there were made of 'nun's veiling'.

An old friend of mine who was baptised about the turn of the 19th C said after her baptism, the girls and women all spent ages combing and brushing and drying their long hair in a specially warmed room.

--------------------
London
Flickr fotos


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Wet Kipper
Circus Runaway
# 1654

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Our church meets in a school. The school has a swimming pool.
So I was baptised in a nice warm swimming pool, wearing t-shirt and shorts. I think the pastor and the elder helping him had trousers an t-shirt on. and the beauty of a swimming pool is that the pastor could pick a suitable depth of water for me (5 foot 10), and then for the 5 foot 2 tall girl that followed me...

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- insert randomly chosen, potentially Deep and Meaningful™ song lyrics here -

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Inanna

Ship's redhead
# 538

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I was baptised in a swimming pool, as part of a house church - I think they rented it, along with another, larger church and "shared" the baptisms.

We had dresses of a rather dull lilac, with big white collars, and special little straps under the skirts, which we tied round our legs to avoid the "billowing" problem.

I remember being most miffed coz the people from the other church being baptised all had these rather elegant flowy white robe things.

And you came up out of the water, and the two elders baptising you then prayed in tongues until you basically collapsed "under the Spirit" in their arms and so got redunked!

Kirsti

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All shall be well
And all shall be well
And all manner of things shall be well.


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daisymay

St Elmo's Fire
# 1480

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Ay one point, we baptised people in the sea at Worthing, when we went there for w/e. (House church then..) The problem was, think Papa Smurf, , that we (most of the church) had to wade out a long way to get enough depth of water, and then the musicians with guitars had to try and avoid little waves of sea-water joining in the fun baptising their instruments. No particular dress code.

Our local vicar borrowed Westbourne Grove for an immersion baptism and dunked the young man 3 times - "In the Name of the Father, in the Name of the Son and in the Name of the Holy Spirit."
Making sure it was Trinitarian.

He did better another time - dunked an 80yr old woman very gently only once.

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London
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Carys

Ship's Celticist
# 78

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quote:
Our local vicar borrowed Westbourne Grove for an immersion baptism and dunked the young man 3 times - "In the Name of the Father, in the Name of the Son and in the Name of the Holy Spirit."
Making sure it was Trinitarian.

Quite right too. Generally you only say 'in the name of' but it gives extra time if dunking each time. While we're on this subject, what words are used in non-liturgical churches?

Carys

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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise


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daisymay

St Elmo's Fire
# 1480

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Mostly, "X, , on your profession of faith, I baptise you in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit." Splash!!!!

I've also heard, "X, ....I baptise you in the Name of Jesus."

There would always be a "testimony" of how the person came to be converted, or an interview if they were really nervous. Also they might be asked a few questions about their faith and why they wanted to be baptised.

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London
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Nunc Dimittis
Seamstress of Sound
# 848

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quote:

An old friend of mine who was baptised about the turn of the 19th C said after her baptism, the girls and women all spent ages combing and brushing and drying their long hair in a specially warmed room.


Good Heavens!! turn of the 19th C would make your friend about 200 if she were here today! Either that, or, how old are you!!!

(I think you meant turn of the 20th C...)


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daisymay

St Elmo's Fire
# 1480

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Well, I might be a young elf - - but I did mean about 1900. Still can't get used to the 21st C.

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London
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Carys

Ship's Celticist
# 78

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quote:
Mostly, "X, , on your profession of faith, I baptise you in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit." Splash!!!!

I've also heard, "X, ....I baptise you in the Name of Jesus."


It's the latter that I heard at my friend's baptism at an independent evangelical Church. Which gives me a problem, in that I'm not convinced baptism in the name of Jesus alone is valid - read Matthew 28:19. As she doesn't reckon that my baptism (as an infant) is valid, that leaves us in an interesting position. I try not to think about it too much. But why do some Churches baptise in the name of Jesus only?

Carys

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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise


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babybear
Bear faced and cheeky with it
# 34

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I have just popped "baptiz" and "name" into The Bible Gateway.

Every verse, bar the one that Carys mentioned, said about being baptised in the name of Jesus.

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ."

Acts 8:16
because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 10:48
So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ

Acts 19:5
On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.

bb


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FCB

Hillbilly Thomist
# 1495

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While we're on the subject of baptismal attire/practices, I thought some folks might find a few baptismal pictures from St. Joseph RC Church in Greenwich Village interesting. As you can see, somber colorsseem to be favored during the baptism itself. After the baptism, the newly initiated change into white robes for confirmation.

Incidentally, some Catholic parishes have started baptizing adults by immersion, and even more are pouring water so the entire person gets wet, as in the pictures here.

FCB

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Agent of the Inquisition since 1982.


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Chapelhead*

Ship’s Photographer
# 1143

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quote:
Originally posted by FCB:
Incidentally, some Catholic parishes have started baptizing adults by immersion, and even more are pouring water so the entire person gets wet, as in the pictures here.

How splendid.

White is a more appropriate colour to wear after the baptism, and in the early church, when most baptisms were carried out on Easter Sunday, the candidates would then wear their white robes until Low Sunday.

I believe also that at a time when very many Baptisms were also carried out at Pentecost, the number of people being baptised and then wearing white became so great that it became known as White Sunday (Whitsun).

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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!


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Duns Scotus
Apprentice
# 2509

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quote:
Originally posted by Carys:
Quite right too. Generally you only say 'in the name of' but it gives extra time if dunking each time. While we're on this subject, what words are used in non-liturgical churches?

Carys


When I was an assistant minister in a Protestant German church they told me before my first baptism that I had to use the trinitarian formula unaltered.
Apparently one of my predecessors (young and foolish like we all were) had baptised "In the name of God who is to us father and mother, in the name of JX who is our Lord and Brother etc...."
Theologically perfectly ok (after all the entire imagery is biblical) if a bit unusual. So one should think. But a huge row followed when an elder complained to the Church HQ. The problem was that ecumenical recognition of baptism with Orthodox and RCC is in danger if we don't stick every word with the biblical words in Matth 28.
And the fear of having anabaptism going on is very strong...

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A martyr is someone living with a saint.


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Chapelhead*

Ship’s Photographer
# 1143

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The question of the words used in baptism is something I have looked at because of my own situation. I was baptised in a Baptist Church but now attend a CofE Church.

In order for me to be a member of the CofE it is necessary for me to have been baptised. The test for whether a baptism is "valid" in the eyes of the CofE is that it must have involved water and be in the name of the Trinity (see the rubric towards the end of the service of "Private Baptism of Infants" in the BCP, for example).

Because my baptism fell into this category it is regarded as valid by the CofE, but a baptism in the name of Jesus would not be so recognised (at lest, it should not, according to Ecclesiastical law). My Baptism would be recognised as valid by almost all Christian denominations and groups, except for the Orthodox and some protestant churches with strict requirements for baptism within their own churches.

But this is in danger of getting a little non-bizarre.

Did those of you baptised as adults have to "give a testimony" as part of the service, telling the church how and why you came to make the decision to get baptised? I did, and looking back on it I don't know how I managed it.

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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!


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Bill Krouwel
Apprentice
# 1152

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We have the (rather charming) ritual of all holding hands and saying the grace together at the end of the service....this ancient tradition (dating from as far back as the 1990's) occasionally requires people to climb over pews.....this is a Baptist church, by the way

The little cups of grape juice are served to people where they are - probably to signify that those who've attained the dizzy heights of deacon-hood aren't any better than the other celebrants.....

AND doesn't everybody know that when Jesus turned the water into wine and drank some, it turned right back into water before hitting his stomach..... [EMAIL]null[/EMAIL]


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daisymay

St Elmo's Fire
# 1480

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quote:
Originally posted by Duns Scotus:

And the fear of having anabaptism going on is very strong...

I'm a good anabaptist.

Chapelhead said, "Because my baptism fell into this category it is regarded as valid by the CofE, but a baptism in the name of Jesus would not be so recognised (at lest, it should not, according to Ecclesiastical law). My Baptism would be recognised as valid by almost all Christian denominations and groups, except for the Orthodox and some protestant churches with strict requirements for baptism within their own churches."

We had a discussion about this, when some Anglican friends visited a baptism and some of the candidates were baptised "in the name of Jesus" and others "trinitarianly". They came to the conclusion that as it all took place in the context of a trinitarian service, the baptism was validly trinitarian, and the words were not to be taken legalistically.

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London
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Carys

Ship's Celticist
# 78

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quote:
some of the candidates were baptised "in the name of Jesus" and others "trinitarianly".

Why? That just strikes me as bizarre.

Carys

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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise


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Bongo
Shipmate
# 778

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I really should know the answer to this question, but what are Presbyterians?!

Bongo

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"You can't fight in here, this is the war room!" ~ Dr Strangelove


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Frater_Frag
Shipmate
# 2184

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quote:
Originally posted by Bongo:
I really should know the answer to this question, but what are Presbyterians?!

Bongo



...........................................
Denominations that thinks that bishops stink´s of popery, and that priests and bishops are the same! So instead they usually elect a president over their church!

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Theological Dissident,
Fencing Instr :)

"Mammals have hair, whales are mammals. Therefore whales have hair... Shave the whales!"

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Carys

Ship's Celticist
# 78

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quote:
but what are Presbyterians?!

To an extent it depends where you are. In Wales it is the old Calvinistic Methodists. In England most of them united with the Congregationalists to form the URC - though not all did - and in Scotland the CoS and the Free CoS and the wee frees are all Presby (as I understand it).

Carys

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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise


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Campbellite

Ut unum sint
# 1202

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quote:
Originally posted by Bongo:
what are Presbyterians?!

In the US, these are Presbyterians.

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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?


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Hooker's Trick

Admin Emeritus and Guardian of the Gin
# 89

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quote:
Originally posted by Bongo:
what are Presbyterians?!

Seventeenth-century regicides.


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Chapelhead*

Ship’s Photographer
# 1143

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Now, now HT - this isn't hell.

quote:
Originally posted by daisymay:
I'm a good anabaptist.

Are you sure? (about the anabaptist bit - I'm sure you're good).

Even in my Baptist days I would never have described myself as an anabaptist, which I regard almost as a term of abuse. I am/was a baptist, not an anabaptist.

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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!


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babybear
Bear faced and cheeky with it
# 34

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The Welsh Presbyterians and Scottish ones will baptise in the name of the Trinity. If it is a baby being done, the sometimes the baby is 'dribbled' 3 times. I baptise you in the name of the Father [dribble], I baptise you in the name of the Son [dribble], and of the Holy Spirit [dribble].

But for an adult, with full emersion, they they are done once,at the end of the 'formula'.

bb

It think


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Wet Kipper
Circus Runaway
# 1654

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quote:
Originally posted by Bongo:
I really should know the answer to this question, but what are Presbyterians?!

Bongo


I think Bongo's question was perhaps more along the lines of description, or dictionary definition, rather than "which groups are Presbyterians ?"

basically the governing of church and congreagtional matters is done by elders (who are members of the church / congregation)or presbyters, and not by Popes, bishops etc....

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- insert randomly chosen, potentially Deep and Meaningful™ song lyrics here -


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babybear
Bear faced and cheeky with it
# 34

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In the Methodist and Anglican church, presbyter is the term used for odained priest/minister.

But in the Presbyterian Church, presbyters are the congregation. All of the congregation are priests. The minister, and the elders are people that the people have deemed worthy to serve them.

bb


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Astro
Shipmate
# 84

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What is wrong with Anabaptists?
Outside continental Europe they are mainly known as Mennonites who apart from being pacifists are fairly mainstream. Also the English General Baptists (i.e. the non-calvinists) had their roots in the Anabaptist movement. It seems to be fashionable in the CoE and calvinist inclined churches to dis the Anabaptists and get them mixed up with the Munsterites who the Anabaptists under Simon Menno (hence Mennonite) also opposed.
I suppose the Amish also grew out of the Anabaptists and they might be considered a bit wierd.

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if you look around the world today – whether you're an atheist or a believer – and think that the greatest problem facing us is other people's theologies, you are yourself part of the problem. - Andrew Brown (The Guardian)

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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

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quote:
Originally posted by babybear:
In the Methodist and Anglican church, presbyter is the term used for odained priest/minister.

But in the Presbyterian Church, presbyters are the congregation. All of the congregation are priests. The minister, and the elders are people that the people have deemed worthy to serve them.


Ditto Baptists.

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Narcissism.


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Bongo
Shipmate
# 778

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Quite. So what exactly is the difference between Baptists and Presbyterians?

I mean in terms of leadership/government, theology, and idiosynchracies (sp?!), if any.

NB: I speak as a MOR Church of England gal.

Bongo

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"You can't fight in here, this is the war room!" ~ Dr Strangelove


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sharkshooter

Not your average shark
# 1589

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quote:
Originally posted by Bongo:
So what exactly is the difference between Baptists and Presbyterians?

I mean in terms of leadership/government, theology, and idiosynchracies (sp?!), if any.


In Canada, being formerly a member of a Baptist church and now a member of a Presbyterian church, the biggest difference that I see is that Baptists only baptize adults whereas Presbyterians baptize infants. Of course, there maybe other differences.

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Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]


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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

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It is true that baptists only baptise adults... as for presbys over here, I couldn't say.

Most of the other differences are structural and administrative, I imagine.

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Narcissism.


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Astro
Shipmate
# 84

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quote:
Originally posted by Bongo:
Quite. So what exactly is the difference between Baptists and Presbyterians?

I mean in terms of leadership/government, theology, and idiosynchracies (sp?!), if any.

NB: I speak as a MOR Church of England gal.

Bongo


Basically Church Government and Baptism.

Taking Church Government First
Presbyterians have a central form of Government which is usually a synod which rather like the synod of the CoE makes the decisions for the Presbyterian Church. The amount of power it has varies from Presbyterian denomination to denomination (a word I hate but I want to distinguish between say the Church of Scotland and The Wee Frees both of which are Presbyterians but are rather diffferent) So in some Presbyterian churches the synod has absolute power in other it is like the CoE's. Unlike the CoE's synod it is totally lay even the ministers there are lay (though since they believe in the priesthood of all believers you caould say that they are totally a house of priests!)
Baptists and Congregationalist churches have the local church as the ultimate authority
and all decisions are made by the church meeting of members of that local church - including the appointment and pay of any minister(s). However they do link together with other Baptist (or Congregationlist) churches in Associations or Conventions
voluntarily but it is the local church that appoints members to the association and decides whether it should be a member or not. In Great Britain most baptist churches belong to a local assocation and in turn the asociation co-operate in the Baptist Union of Great Britain, but in theory the Baptist Union has no power over its member churches. As membership is volentary there are other associations such as Grace Baptist which has nothing to do with the Baptist Union and is stricter demanding Calvinist beliefs.

In England most Presbyterians and Congrgationalists joined together to form the United Reform Church which has a hybrid form of church government.

OK now Baptism
Presbyterians go for infant baptism like the CoE, in fact their baptismal beliefs tend to be the same as the CoE. Congregationalists hold similar views.

Baptists get their name from their distinct teaching on baptism which is called believers baptism. That is infants are not baptised but only those who make a public confession of their faith are baptised. Inn the case of children of Baptists the children are allowed to decide if or when they are baptised (the most common tiome to choose is mid-teens). Before anyone can be baptised at least the minister must be convinced of them being a christian. However a conversion experience is not necessarily required as Baptists are not necessarily evangelicals although the majority probably are.

One further difference is that Presbyterians have historically tended to be Calvinist (though that is not so true today) while Baptists have been divided between Particular Baptists (calvinists) and General (or FreeWill) Baptists (non-calvinists) and only formed a union at the end of the 19th century when non-calvinism became the majority view amoung the particilars.

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if you look around the world today – whether you're an atheist or a believer – and think that the greatest problem facing us is other people's theologies, you are yourself part of the problem. - Andrew Brown (The Guardian)


Posts: 2723 | From: Chiltern Hills | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hooker's Trick

Admin Emeritus and Guardian of the Gin
# 89

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[Host mortar board in hand]

I don't know how bizarre Protestant or Baptist church governance is (I'll leave it for you to decide), but I do know that it is not a bizarre practice.

So please open a separate thread to discuss the ecclesiology of calvinists, congregationalists, presbys, regicides, baptists, adult-dunkers, Amish or any other such.

Here, though, can we please discuss the bizarre practice of public confessions of conversion?

HT [MW Host]


Posts: 6733 | From: Gin Lane | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cosmo
Shipmate
# 117

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quote:
Originally posted by daisymay:
I'm a good anabaptist.

That's a contradiction in terms.

Cosmo


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Astro
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# 84

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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo:
That's a contradiction in terms.

Cosmo


Why, what have the Mennonites (or Amish) ever done to upset you?

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if you look around the world today – whether you're an atheist or a believer – and think that the greatest problem facing us is other people's theologies, you are yourself part of the problem. - Andrew Brown (The Guardian)


Posts: 2723 | From: Chiltern Hills | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Chapelhead*

Ship’s Photographer
# 1143

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quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
Here, though, can we please discuss the bizarre practice of public confessions of conversion?
[MW Host]


Yes please. I had to do it (and apparently so did daisymay, so let's have a few more confessions of profession.

[Aside]My great apologies if my previous comment seemed detreimental to those happy to describe themselves as anabaptist. I was thinking only in terms of the usual UK use of that term and in particular my own understanding of it. [/Aside]

[ubb]

[ 20 March 2002: Message edited by: babybear ]

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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!


Posts: 7082 | From: Turbolift Control. | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
babybear
Bear faced and cheeky with it
# 34

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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo:
That's a contradiction in terms.

Cosmo, read the 3rd Commandment recently? Cos you have just broken it.

quote:
Name-calling and personal insults are not allowed, regardless of the context. The same goes for comment which stereotypes or attacks people on the basis of their race, nationality, age, gender, religious belief or sexual preference..... When discussing a specific people group, please mentally substitute the name of a shipmate for the group in question before you post your message.

If you want to start a thread discussing the merits and demerits of the Anabaptists, then please do feel free.

bb
----
MW Host


Posts: 13287 | From: Cottage of the 3 Bears (and The Gremlin) | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Astro
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# 84

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quote:
I don't know how bizarre Protestant or Baptist church governance is (I'll leave it for you to decide), but I do know that it is not a bizarre practice.


You obviously have never been to a Baptist Church Meeting - very bizarre

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if you look around the world today – whether you're an atheist or a believer – and think that the greatest problem facing us is other people's theologies, you are yourself part of the problem. - Andrew Brown (The Guardian)


Posts: 2723 | From: Chiltern Hills | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

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quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
Here, though, can we please discuss the bizarre practice of public confessions of conversion?

What, you mean 'testimony'?

It's common in our church services but by no means all-pervading. It's usual for a personal statement of one's faith and/or conversion to be given before one is baptised, usually in the same service.

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Narcissism.


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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15

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I am reminded of the definition of "Testimony" found in "The Church-English Dictionary (Rowe, Parke, et al) as being "a story that has all the exciting bits at the beginning and then gets very dull".

I remember this happening in an Anglican church of my acquaintance. A, um, minister with a guitar ministry and his ex-model wife were leading the service. She gave her testimony - which involved 20 minutes or so of described what she used to do - modelling, hanging around in Hollywood, lying next to swimming pools, etc, etc - and then, noticing that she'd gone way over time, was concluded in less than a minute with something along the lines of "And then I became a Christian and now I do this."

Hmmm.

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"He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt


Posts: 6916 | From: pob dydd Iau, am hanner dydd | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

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LOL Dyfrig...

A couple of weeks agao, we had a 'testimony' from a woman who then went on to speak for half-an-hour on a variety of rambling subjects, some of them possibly quite offensive.

Our Pastor was not pleased. Neither was I, for that matter.

But when it's done properly - and honestly, testimony can be very useful, both as an alternative (ie. non-sermon) way of communicating beliefs, as something which can be both encouraging and challenging, and which can also help us to get to know people in the church other than the leadership.

It's not about 'therapy' - it doesn't work like that, and it's often more edgy that 'cuddly'.

And it doesn't have to be about conversion, either.

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Narcissism.


Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cosmo
Shipmate
# 117

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I'm not having a go at daisymay herself for describing herself as a 'good anabaptist' but questioning, like Chapelhead, whether she really understands what that means.

Anabaptists or Mennonites are not fairly mainstream as Astro claims (in the way that Quakers or the Salvation Army are not fairly mainstream). Not only do they uphold the doctrine of the baptism of believers only (ie no infant baptism) they also deny that any baptism an infant received was not a true baptism and that they need to be re-baptised. That is a complete denial of the baptismal regeneration and a denial of the saving grace of God. After all, it means that we tell God if his grace is working or not. 'No God. You were firing blanks with little Leo twenty years ago. Now he's grown up, he can now tell you to forgive him. Thanks a lot.'

Not even the strictest of strict Pius X Society Catholics would claim that a Trinitarian baptism, done at Westminster Abbey or a tin hut in Indiana, needs to be done again.

That's what I mean.

Cosmo


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Louise
Shipmate
# 30

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quote:
Seventeenth-century regicides.

Those are Independents/congregationalists, HT, Scottish Presbyterians opposed the regicide, accepted Charles II as King and went to war with Cromwell. In consequence thousands of Scots Presbyterians were killed fighting for Charles II.

I don't think the English Presbyterians supported the regicide either.

Louise

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Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.


Posts: 6894 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Chapelhead*

Ship’s Photographer
# 1143

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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo:
I'm not having a go at daisymay herself for describing herself as a 'good anabaptist' but questioning, like Chapelhead, whether she really understands what that means.

I would like to point out that I have already apologised for any offence my comment might have made (although none was intended). I would also point out that I am/have been someone to whom the term anabaptist could be applied (incorrectly in my view, presumably correctly in Cosmo’s view) and that, far from regarding anabaptists as ‘not good’ I have no problem with the views normally termed ‘anabaptist’.

Back to the thread…

Whenever someone is asked to give a testimony and talk about ‘their Christian life’ my thought is always to want to hear about their ‘non-Christian life’, which sounds much more interesting.

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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!


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babybear
Bear faced and cheeky with it
# 34

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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo:
I'm not having a go at daisymay herself for describing herself as a 'good anabaptist' but questioning, like Chapelhead, whether she really understands what that means.
...
That's what I mean.

But that is not what you said. By saying saying that "good anabaptist is a contradiction in terms" you took a little pot shot at anabaptists, and Daisymay considers herself to be an anabaptist. So by extention you were also having a go at her. That is why I included the quote from the 3rd C. It explain what is and is not acceptable.

I didn't think that you meant to have a go at Daisymay. So I didn't ask for an apology.

If people would like to continue to debate about anabaptists then please start a new thread.

bb
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MW Host


Posts: 13287 | From: Cottage of the 3 Bears (and The Gremlin) | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hooker's Trick

Admin Emeritus and Guardian of the Gin
# 89

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First of all thanks to Louise for setting me straight on Presbyterians. I was formerly of the opinion that all Puritans were Presbyterians. Much as I was under the impression that Fundamentalists and Evangelicals were synonymous, until Wood set me straight on that.

Now, these testimonials. I rather imagine them taking place like this:

Wood: "Hello, my name is Wood, and I am a Christian."

Baptists: "Hello Wood!"

Wood: "Before I was a Christian I whored around and drank myself silly."

Baptists: "Amen".

Wood: "After I found Jesus, I don't do that stuff anymore."

Baptists: "Amen brother!"

Wood: "Now that I found Jesus, I am saved."

Baptists: "Amen Amen."

Wood: "And now instead of boozing and shagging, I evangelise people."

Baptists: "Amen!"

Followed by some splashing in a large pool.

Now, I am sure it must not really be like that, so won't you please assist us?

By the way, Astro, I *have* been to a Baptist Meeting, in Virginia. It was not bizarre, but it was very boring. We all sat down in very uncomfortable pews. We sang a hymn and several (maybe 7?) men in suits filed in and sat on a dais in the front in big chairs like bishops' thrones. In turns, each one of them got up and read a lesson or lead a prayer. This was interspersed with time for quiet prayer. Then there was a very long sermon given by an elderly man in a suit. There followed a collection of money, more praying and lessons, and another hymn. The whole thing lasted nearly two hours. No one actually shouted amen or raised his hands in that air -- it was all very staid.

I had forgot about it until now. There was a pulpit and one or two lecterns and no Holy Table. And no altar hangings or coloured cloths at all. I assume the baptism pool was secreted under the dais, but I am not sure.

HT


Posts: 6733 | From: Gin Lane | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Chapelhead*

Ship’s Photographer
# 1143

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HT, I would dearly like to take you to a Baptist service in the UK - not that I attend a Baptist church any more - just as I would dearly love to attend your church, which sounds most interesting. How I wish they weren't on the opposite sides of the pond.

What gets said when someone "gives a testimony" at a baptismal service? Well, looking back at my own baptism, I got up an explained how I was not brought up in a "religious" household and that church-going was not something that we did as a family. As a teenager a friend of mine became a Christian and in a fairly typical teenage way we talked about life, death, the universe and everything, including Christianity. He invited me to attend his (Baptist) church, which I did for a few months before deciding to attend the church I was being baptised in (which another friend attended). After learning more at both of these churches about God, Christ, Christianity and so forth I became convinced intellectually of the truth of Christianity and then determined to commit my life to the Christian faith. Consequent to this I decided to get baptised, as a public demonstration of my decision to "die to Christ" and commit to the Christian faith.

Now, that probably sounds horribly twee, but in the context of the service it seems very different (just as everyone taking one sip from big cup and then it being passed to the next person sounds pretty twee if taken out of context).

One of the great surprises of this thread is finding out how my particular corner of the Church is perceived by other parts of it (I sometimes think that "high-church" types think we "low-church" types live on another planet). We may be pretty strange, but our hearts are generally in the right place (as are yours, of course).

--------------------
Benedikt Gott Geschickt!


Posts: 7082 | From: Turbolift Control. | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Astro
Shipmate
# 84

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quote:
By the way, Astro, I *have* been to a Baptist Meeting, in Virginia.

That sounds like an apology for a worship meeting - what I was referring to is a "Church Meeting" i.e. a meeting of church members to discuss church business. I think that the nearest equivalent the Episcoplian church has is the vestry but that has a limited membership so less oppurtunity for agruements. Actually you tat lovers might enjoy Baptist Church (businness) meeting as most of the time is spent discussing what color flowers should be used, church decorations and other vital matters. While unimportant things like the church budget, pastoral matters and doctrinal discussions get dealt with very quickly, as most of the time has been spent on whether the vestry door should be painted with gloss or matt paint.

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if you look around the world today – whether you're an atheist or a believer – and think that the greatest problem facing us is other people's theologies, you are yourself part of the problem. - Andrew Brown (The Guardian)


Posts: 2723 | From: Chiltern Hills | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged



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