Source: (consider it)
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Thread: MW: Bizarre Practices The Second: Protestants
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daisymay
 St Elmo's Fire
# 1480
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Posted
Chapelhead, you're bringing back memories! My white overall/dress had pennies sewn into the hem to prevent it ballooning up, and I remember being told for the same reason to walk very slowly down the steps so the water would gradually seep up it and hold it down.Also instructions to lean back without bending my knees and the water would bounce me back up - which it did. The minister wore a black academic robe I think, ( ), but it was a thin one, not the usual heavy one he wore to preach. What did you lot do about drying? I was whisked off to a vestry where there was a tin bath to stand in and drip. But in Westbourne Grove, they had 2 vestries, men and women, and not only did the floor-boards come up to reveal the baptistry, but there were lead-lined sections of floor which led all the way to the vestries from the platform. The ancient (long disused) white women's robes there were made of 'nun's veiling'. An old friend of mine who was baptised about the turn of the 19th C said after her baptism, the girls and women all spent ages combing and brushing and drying their long hair in a specially warmed room.
-------------------- London Flickr fotos
Posts: 11224 | From: London - originally Dundee, Blairgowrie etc... | Registered: Oct 2001
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Wet Kipper
Circus Runaway
# 1654
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Posted
Our church meets in a school. The school has a swimming pool. So I was baptised in a nice warm swimming pool, wearing t-shirt and shorts. I think the pastor and the elder helping him had trousers an t-shirt on. and the beauty of a swimming pool is that the pastor could pick a suitable depth of water for me (5 foot 10), and then for the 5 foot 2 tall girl that followed me...
-------------------- - insert randomly chosen, potentially Deep and Meaningful™ song lyrics here -
Posts: 9841 | From: further up the Hill | Registered: Nov 2001
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daisymay
 St Elmo's Fire
# 1480
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Posted
Well, I might be a young elf - - but I did mean about 1900. Still can't get used to the 21st C.
-------------------- London Flickr fotos
Posts: 11224 | From: London - originally Dundee, Blairgowrie etc... | Registered: Oct 2001
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Carys
 Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
quote: Mostly, "X, , on your profession of faith, I baptise you in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit." Splash!!!!I've also heard, "X, ....I baptise you in the Name of Jesus."
It's the latter that I heard at my friend's baptism at an independent evangelical Church. Which gives me a problem, in that I'm not convinced baptism in the name of Jesus alone is valid - read Matthew 28:19. As she doesn't reckon that my baptism (as an infant) is valid, that leaves us in an interesting position. I try not to think about it too much. But why do some Churches baptise in the name of Jesus only? Carys
-------------------- O Lord, you have searched me and know me You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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babybear
Bear faced and cheeky with it
# 34
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Posted
I have just popped "baptiz" and "name" into The Bible Gateway. Every verse, bar the one that Carys mentioned, said about being baptised in the name of Jesus. Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ." Acts 8:16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Acts 10:48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ Acts 19:5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. bb
Posts: 13287 | From: Cottage of the 3 Bears (and The Gremlin) | Registered: May 2001
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Astro
Shipmate
# 84
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Posted
What is wrong with Anabaptists? Outside continental Europe they are mainly known as Mennonites who apart from being pacifists are fairly mainstream. Also the English General Baptists (i.e. the non-calvinists) had their roots in the Anabaptist movement. It seems to be fashionable in the CoE and calvinist inclined churches to dis the Anabaptists and get them mixed up with the Munsterites who the Anabaptists under Simon Menno (hence Mennonite) also opposed. I suppose the Amish also grew out of the Anabaptists and they might be considered a bit wierd.
-------------------- if you look around the world today – whether you're an atheist or a believer – and think that the greatest problem facing us is other people's theologies, you are yourself part of the problem. - Andrew Brown (The Guardian)
Posts: 2723 | From: Chiltern Hills | Registered: May 2001
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sharkshooter
 Not your average shark
# 1589
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Bongo: So what exactly is the difference between Baptists and Presbyterians?I mean in terms of leadership/government, theology, and idiosynchracies (sp?!), if any.
In Canada, being formerly a member of a Baptist church and now a member of a Presbyterian church, the biggest difference that I see is that Baptists only baptize adults whereas Presbyterians baptize infants. Of course, there maybe other differences.
-------------------- Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]
Posts: 7772 | From: Canada; Washington DC; Phoenix; it's complicated | Registered: Oct 2001
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Astro
Shipmate
# 84
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Bongo: Quite. So what exactly is the difference between Baptists and Presbyterians?I mean in terms of leadership/government, theology, and idiosynchracies (sp?!), if any. NB: I speak as a MOR Church of England gal. Bongo 
Basically Church Government and Baptism. Taking Church Government First Presbyterians have a central form of Government which is usually a synod which rather like the synod of the CoE makes the decisions for the Presbyterian Church. The amount of power it has varies from Presbyterian denomination to denomination (a word I hate but I want to distinguish between say the Church of Scotland and The Wee Frees both of which are Presbyterians but are rather diffferent) So in some Presbyterian churches the synod has absolute power in other it is like the CoE's. Unlike the CoE's synod it is totally lay even the ministers there are lay (though since they believe in the priesthood of all believers you caould say that they are totally a house of priests!) Baptists and Congregationalist churches have the local church as the ultimate authority and all decisions are made by the church meeting of members of that local church - including the appointment and pay of any minister(s). However they do link together with other Baptist (or Congregationlist) churches in Associations or Conventions voluntarily but it is the local church that appoints members to the association and decides whether it should be a member or not. In Great Britain most baptist churches belong to a local assocation and in turn the asociation co-operate in the Baptist Union of Great Britain, but in theory the Baptist Union has no power over its member churches. As membership is volentary there are other associations such as Grace Baptist which has nothing to do with the Baptist Union and is stricter demanding Calvinist beliefs. In England most Presbyterians and Congrgationalists joined together to form the United Reform Church which has a hybrid form of church government. OK now Baptism Presbyterians go for infant baptism like the CoE, in fact their baptismal beliefs tend to be the same as the CoE. Congregationalists hold similar views. Baptists get their name from their distinct teaching on baptism which is called believers baptism. That is infants are not baptised but only those who make a public confession of their faith are baptised. Inn the case of children of Baptists the children are allowed to decide if or when they are baptised (the most common tiome to choose is mid-teens). Before anyone can be baptised at least the minister must be convinced of them being a christian. However a conversion experience is not necessarily required as Baptists are not necessarily evangelicals although the majority probably are. One further difference is that Presbyterians have historically tended to be Calvinist (though that is not so true today) while Baptists have been divided between Particular Baptists (calvinists) and General (or FreeWill) Baptists (non-calvinists) and only formed a union at the end of the 19th century when non-calvinism became the majority view amoung the particilars.
-------------------- if you look around the world today – whether you're an atheist or a believer – and think that the greatest problem facing us is other people's theologies, you are yourself part of the problem. - Andrew Brown (The Guardian)
Posts: 2723 | From: Chiltern Hills | Registered: May 2001
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Chapelhead*
 Ship’s Photographer
# 1143
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Hooker's Trick: Here, though, can we please discuss the bizarre practice of public confessions of conversion? [MW Host]
Yes please. I had to do it (and apparently so did daisymay, so let's have a few more confessions of profession.
[Aside]My great apologies if my previous comment seemed detreimental to those happy to describe themselves as anabaptist. I was thinking only in terms of the usual UK use of that term and in particular my own understanding of it. [/Aside] [ubb] [ 20 March 2002: Message edited by: babybear ]
-------------------- Benedikt Gott Geschickt!
Posts: 7082 | From: Turbolift Control. | Registered: Aug 2001
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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15
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Posted
I am reminded of the definition of "Testimony" found in "The Church-English Dictionary (Rowe, Parke, et al) as being "a story that has all the exciting bits at the beginning and then gets very dull".I remember this happening in an Anglican church of my acquaintance. A, um, minister with a guitar ministry and his ex-model wife were leading the service. She gave her testimony - which involved 20 minutes or so of described what she used to do - modelling, hanging around in Hollywood, lying next to swimming pools, etc, etc - and then, noticing that she'd gone way over time, was concluded in less than a minute with something along the lines of "And then I became a Christian and now I do this." Hmmm.
-------------------- "He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt
Posts: 6917 | From: pob dydd Iau, am hanner dydd | Registered: Apr 2001
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
LOL Dyfrig... A couple of weeks agao, we had a 'testimony' from a woman who then went on to speak for half-an-hour on a variety of rambling subjects, some of them possibly quite offensive. Our Pastor was not pleased. Neither was I, for that matter. But when it's done properly - and honestly, testimony can be very useful, both as an alternative (ie. non-sermon) way of communicating beliefs, as something which can be both encouraging and challenging, and which can also help us to get to know people in the church other than the leadership. It's not about 'therapy' - it doesn't work like that, and it's often more edgy that 'cuddly'. And it doesn't have to be about conversion, either.
-------------------- Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Cosmo
Shipmate
# 117
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Posted
I'm not having a go at daisymay herself for describing herself as a 'good anabaptist' but questioning, like Chapelhead, whether she really understands what that means.Anabaptists or Mennonites are not fairly mainstream as Astro claims (in the way that Quakers or the Salvation Army are not fairly mainstream). Not only do they uphold the doctrine of the baptism of believers only (ie no infant baptism) they also deny that any baptism an infant received was not a true baptism and that they need to be re-baptised. That is a complete denial of the baptismal regeneration and a denial of the saving grace of God. After all, it means that we tell God if his grace is working or not. 'No God. You were firing blanks with little Leo twenty years ago. Now he's grown up, he can now tell you to forgive him. Thanks a lot.' Not even the strictest of strict Pius X Society Catholics would claim that a Trinitarian baptism, done at Westminster Abbey or a tin hut in Indiana, needs to be done again. That's what I mean. Cosmo
Posts: 2375 | Registered: May 2001
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Hooker's Trick
 Admin Emeritus and Guardian of the Gin
# 89
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Posted
First of all thanks to Louise for setting me straight on Presbyterians. I was formerly of the opinion that all Puritans were Presbyterians. Much as I was under the impression that Fundamentalists and Evangelicals were synonymous, until Wood set me straight on that. Now, these testimonials. I rather imagine them taking place like this: Wood: "Hello, my name is Wood, and I am a Christian." Baptists: "Hello Wood!" Wood: "Before I was a Christian I whored around and drank myself silly." Baptists: "Amen". Wood: "After I found Jesus, I don't do that stuff anymore." Baptists: "Amen brother!" Wood: "Now that I found Jesus, I am saved." Baptists: "Amen Amen." Wood: "And now instead of boozing and shagging, I evangelise people." Baptists: "Amen!" Followed by some splashing in a large pool. Now, I am sure it must not really be like that, so won't you please assist us? By the way, Astro, I *have* been to a Baptist Meeting, in Virginia. It was not bizarre, but it was very boring. We all sat down in very uncomfortable pews. We sang a hymn and several (maybe 7?) men in suits filed in and sat on a dais in the front in big chairs like bishops' thrones. In turns, each one of them got up and read a lesson or lead a prayer. This was interspersed with time for quiet prayer. Then there was a very long sermon given by an elderly man in a suit. There followed a collection of money, more praying and lessons, and another hymn. The whole thing lasted nearly two hours. No one actually shouted amen or raised his hands in that air -- it was all very staid. I had forgot about it until now. There was a pulpit and one or two lecterns and no Holy Table. And no altar hangings or coloured cloths at all. I assume the baptism pool was secreted under the dais, but I am not sure. HT
Posts: 6735 | From: Gin Lane | Registered: May 2001
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Chapelhead*
 Ship’s Photographer
# 1143
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Posted
HT, I would dearly like to take you to a Baptist service in the UK - not that I attend a Baptist church any more - just as I would dearly love to attend your church, which sounds most interesting. How I wish they weren't on the opposite sides of the pond.What gets said when someone "gives a testimony" at a baptismal service? Well, looking back at my own baptism, I got up an explained how I was not brought up in a "religious" household and that church-going was not something that we did as a family. As a teenager a friend of mine became a Christian and in a fairly typical teenage way we talked about life, death, the universe and everything, including Christianity. He invited me to attend his (Baptist) church, which I did for a few months before deciding to attend the church I was being baptised in (which another friend attended). After learning more at both of these churches about God, Christ, Christianity and so forth I became convinced intellectually of the truth of Christianity and then determined to commit my life to the Christian faith. Consequent to this I decided to get baptised, as a public demonstration of my decision to "die to Christ" and commit to the Christian faith. Now, that probably sounds horribly twee, but in the context of the service it seems very different (just as everyone taking one sip from big cup and then it being passed to the next person sounds pretty twee if taken out of context). One of the great surprises of this thread is finding out how my particular corner of the Church is perceived by other parts of it (I sometimes think that "high-church" types think we "low-church" types live on another planet). We may be pretty strange, but our hearts are generally in the right place (as are yours, of course).
-------------------- Benedikt Gott Geschickt!
Posts: 7082 | From: Turbolift Control. | Registered: Aug 2001
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