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Source: (consider it) Thread: MW: High vs Low, AC vs EP,
Edward Green
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# 46

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quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
Edward.....first things first.I'm sorry to hear about your wife's cancer scare,and I do hope that she is on the road to recovery.

We found out on Christmas Eve that the lump dhe had that was "probably cancer and would require a mascectomy" was in fact a Fibroid. I am glad doctors can be wrong from time to time!

quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
I think as you say that the whole question of healing is a difficult one.When times have been difficult with me health-wise or other,the only thing I feel I can honestly ask for is "grace to help in time of need".That grace I believe is freely given....more than that I don't think I've had a right to ask - not that that would stop me asking(!) if truth were to be told.

Certainly in Healing services we pray for God to Heal the whole person rather than just focussing on a physical ailment. Everyone recieves the laying on of hands, rather than singling out individuals.

quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
I've never expected Him to work miracles.....but perhaps this is not the time or the place to repeat arguments over that.

The history of the catholic faith is scattered with reports of miricles, but I certainly can't explain why the may or may not happen!

Low church groups often seem to have quite strong views on miracles - i.e. they either do or don't happen. High church groups are, rightly to my mind, a bit more mystical about those sort of things.

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Stephen
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# 40

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OK,Chorister so how would you define a Bath Abbey type of service,with Choral Mattins every Sunday????[now,how many smilie-faces.....]


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Stephen

'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10

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Stephen
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# 40

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Sorry to double-post,I've only just read Edward's post
My take on miracles can on occasion be a bit sceptical,I suppose.Or it may seem that way....
In general,I think that God is a God of order and purpose.The fact that Newtonian physics can be reduced to 8? equations or for that matter that the Universe can be understood,albeit imperfectly,tends to point towards that.Although I think that God is involved with His creation I don't think He normally intervenes.However I think that He can intervene and on occasion does intervene.
That's as far as the physical world goes.However I would go further and be inclined to say that on the spiritual level He probably intervenes quite a lot.....
I liked what Edward said about praying for the whole person too.A person can be physically ill but need mental and spiritual healing as well,eg you can have an unpleasant physical illness which also can make you feel depressed.....
And now I've really confuses the issue.....!

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Stephen

'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10

Posts: 3954 | From: Alto C Clef Country | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Edward Green
Review Editor
# 46

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quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
In general,I think that God is a God of order and purpose.
Although I think that God is involved with His creation I don't think He normally intervenes.However I think that He can intervene and on occasion does intervene.

To be honest I often tend towards process theology, so I am not so sure that God and Creation are that separable.

I agree about the holistic approach to healing for all, and this is something that is sometimes lacking in healing ministry in some traditions.

Of course this has gone way off topic .. except that approaches to healing seem to vary across e/p groups.

Choristers understand is sadly flawed as Stephen has pointed out

I like family services and I am A/C. Sorry.

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Chapelhead*

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# 1143

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quote:
Originally posted by sacredthree:
I agree about the holistic approach to healing for all, and this is something that is sometimes lacking in healing ministry in some traditions.

Of course this has gone way off topic .. except that approaches to healing seem to vary across e/p groups.




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Chapelhead*

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# 1143

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quote:
Originally posted by sacredthree:
I agree about the holistic approach to healing for all, and this is something that is sometimes lacking in healing ministry in some traditions.

Sorry for the double post - I hit "reply" too soon there.

What I meant to say was....

Don't "whole" and "heal" have the same root in Greek (I don't do Greek, but I'm sure I've heard this somewhere).

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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!


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Chorister

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# 473

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You are a hard taskmaster, Stephen.....Bath Abbey, as I remember from a Summer visit, had Choral Mattins as one of about 5 services that Sunday, the others being a family eucharist, a choral eucharist, a baptism and evensong. So 'all things to all (wo)men' springs to mind: seems MOTR to me, although I have heard it is evangelical,but not very evident that Sunday. (smilies are catching)

Yes, Edward, my 'family service' analysis was deliberately meant to be simplistic (hence the wink)- sorry if I offended you.

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Stephen
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# 40

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quote:
Originally posted by sacredthree:
To be honest I often tend towards process theology, so I am not so sure that God and Creation are that separable.

Hmm.have to think about it,and my brain hurts on this thread.....One has to tread a line between Deism and Pantheism;I'm more inclined to be a Deist than a Pantheist,but even so,I think Deism is probably incorrect.The problem with Pantheism is that it identifies God with the Universe whereas Deism cuts God off from the Universe

quote:

I agree about the holistic approach to healing for all, and this is something that is sometimes lacking in healing ministry in some traditions.

I happy with healing in this sense I think,and I have on occasion received unction.I'm less comfortable with reports of instant miracles....

quote:

Choristers understand is sadly flawed as Stephen has pointed out

Quite....

quote:

I like family services and I am A/C. Sorry.

Yes....be careful here though.There are Family Services and Family Services.I think yours is like ours,a simplified Eucharist.But you can have Family Services which are extremely informal.....

With reference to Chorister,the last time I was at BAth Abbey,they had a Parish Eucharist at 9.30 in the quire,a Choral Mattins,at 11.00 which was full,and then I think Choral Evensong in the afternoon and Sung Evensong at 6.00 or thereabouts.It struck me as a lot more MOTR than Evangelical even though I now discover they have an Evangelical patron.....

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Stephen

'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10


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Stephen
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# 40

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quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:

Don't "whole" and "heal" have the same root in Greek (I don't do Greek, but I'm sure I've heard this somewhere).

In Old English "gehal" is "whole" or "healthy" whilst "halig" is "holy",so I'd guess you are probably right....

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Stephen

'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10


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Chorister

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# 473

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Three local churches I know have family services of half-hour duration (no Eucharist) so they are very informal, to suit the attention span of a toddler. There is no sunday school on these days, so all the kids can join in. I assume these services are evangelical, as the A-C's would presumably want the services to be Eucharistic?

Do I still have no takers for an interpretation of 'postpropositionalist'? Don't expect me to bale you out as I don't have a clue what it means! Maybe Dyfrig does - he's good at that sort of thing.....

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Weslian
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# 1900

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quote:
Originally posted by sacredthree:
To be honest I often tend towards process theology, so I am not so sure that God and Creation are that separable.

I've always wanted to know what process theology means, simply explained, and you seem to know about it. Any chance of a quick description.

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Stephen
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# 40

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quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Three local churches I know have family services of half-hour duration (no Eucharist) so they are very informal, to suit the attention span of a toddler. There is no sunday school on these days, so all the kids can join in. I assume these services are evangelical, as the A-C's would presumably want the services to be Eucharistic?

Yes,that was the point I was getting at....

quote:

Do I still have no takers for an interpretation of 'postpropositionalist'? Don't expect me to bale you out as I don't have a clue what it means! Maybe Dyfrig does - he's good at that sort of thing.....

Both Dyfrig and Edward,methinks!But don't look at me!

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Stephen

'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10


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Stephen
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# 40

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quote:
Originally posted by Weslian:
I've always wanted to know what process theology means, simply explained, and you seem to know about it. Any chance of a quick description.

Thank you Weslian!I hate to show my ignorance - not that i can help it at times! - but it's the first time I've heard of it....

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Stephen

'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10


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Weslian
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# 1900

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quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Three local churches I know have family services of half-hour duration (no Eucharist) so they are very informal, to suit the attention span of a toddler. There is no sunday school on these days, so all the kids can join in. I assume these services are evangelical, as the A-C's would presumably want the services to be Eucharistic?


Why do you still asume that anything not A-C is Evangelical?? To a Liberal non-Anglican Protestant this is a non-sequitor. Most Methodist churches have monthly family services that are non-eucharistic, but it doesn't make them evangelical.

[tidied ubb. I like a tidy corner of cyberspace]

[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: Hooker's Trick ]

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Benedictus
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# 1215

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Warning--tangent:

quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Do I still have no takers for an interpretation of 'postpropositionalist'?

When I read that I thought it said 'postproportionalist', and thought of how I feel after all the eating during the holidays. Now I know, I am postproportionalist. (Reminiscent of the title of a cartoon book "My Weight is Perfect for my Height, which Varies.")

Bene, which apologies for the irreverence. But apparently I'm not sorry enough to refrain from posting it.

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Edward Green
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# 46

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Postpropositionalist. Suggests that Language actually does things rather than merely picture them.

Faithmaps is a useful tool in this sort of discussion, although is almost Fundamentalist features articals from a wide breadth of evangelical thought.

On Process, the first paragraph of this Introduction to Process Theology is all you shoud need.

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Weslian
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# 1900

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quote:
Originally posted by sacredthree:
On Process, the first paragraph of this Introduction to Process Theology is all you shoud need.

Many thanks. I found the piece very helpful, and I think it means that I have been a process theologian without realising it, for a long time.

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Stephen
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# 40

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Yes, thank you,Edward
I'm not sure I've fully understood it,so I'll have to think about it....
There's something about it that I'm not all that comfortable with,but I can't pin-point what that something is.....
I don't know if anyone else will have more coherent views;mine son't seem to be at the moment,I'm afraid

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Stephen

'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10

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AbundantJoy
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# 2082

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stephen:
[QB]Sorry to double-post,I've only just read Edward's post
My take on miracles can on occasion be a bit sceptical,I suppose.Or it may seem that way....
In general,I think that God is a God of order and purpose.

Yes, I would agree with us. God is a God of order. In Jermiah, he states that he has a plan, a purpose, and a destiny for us.

Although I think that God is involved with His creation I don't think He normally intervenes.However I think that He can intervene and on occasion does intervene.

As mentioned later (scroll up to see the post) this is a deist perspective. This perspective describes God as the Creator and benefactor of man, but in a standoffish kind of way. Sort of God is up there and he is watching but he isn't too interested in what is going on. Contrast this with Trititian christianity in which God is greatly involved with humankind doing everything from feeding the hungry (like christ's loaves and fishes) to healing Both spiritual and physical needs (note that some physical needs were met after the spiritual problem was dealt with. I.e. the lady who was instantly physically healed from a blood disease or the lady who was healed from crippling disease when jesus rebuked the spirit of infirmity from her.) I think if you expect nothing to happen, that will probably be the case (exempting God's grace and his interventions) but if you read about the miracles in the bible, hear about miracles in church and pray for miracles for yourself or others, God will be happy to grant you miracles, signs and wonders. Christ says that those who follow him will do greater works that this (refering to the quantity of miracles that shall come from the disciples of christ's hand in the name of jesus. When Peter healed the beggar at the Gate beautiful, the people though they were gods. Peter responded, why do you marvel that this man was made whole ? We healed him in the name of the holy child Jesus. I believe many people followed christ after seeing the power of God.

That's as far as the physical world goes.However I would go further and be inclined to say that on the spiritual level He probably intervenes quite a lot.....
(I would take out the probably.) In my life, God speaks in a impression or a thought to pray for someone and you may not know what is wrong but you pray and God works it out.
Like this morning, I really felt led by the Holy Spirit to pray for my friend Cathy who hadn't seen all christmas break. So, I prayed for her and asked God to heal her phyiscally, emotional and spiritually. Later that day, I ran into my friends who told me that Cathy was pretty sick. So, God confirmed what he had told me earlier. I also believe that God will heal cathy too.


I liked what Edward said about praying for the whole person too.A person can be physically ill but need mental and spiritual healing as well.

I would totally agree. 1 thess 5:23 says "that And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. " So, each of us is a triune being that each part needs healing and wholeness. Of course, when one part is doing poorly it affects the other parts. Many people will talk how modern medicine only meets two of the three, but that is another thread all together.

Peace, ABj

"This is yet only one expression of the body of Christ" Pastor Mark Williams refering to my church.


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