To respond to the two points that upset me most, whether or not i agree with how women are treated in these countries, i have to care because they are people as much as we.

one of these articles from the BBC

quote:

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Originally posted by Nicole Smith:
And I keep hearing 7000, 7000, I know it sounds like a lot but so many, many more die in other countries (like East Timor) aided and abetted by US interests and it doesn't seem to matter. But 7000 die in the States and this is now a real problem. Please, I am not belittling the pain. Let's get some perspective on this though. Let's think through all the implications of vengeance.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Nightlamp:
There have been a number of articles in the British press recently about a decrease in amnerican support for Irish republicanism as a result of 11th september and other factors.

one of these articles from the BBC

Is this true?

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I read the BBC article with great interest. I hope it's true. I have not heard anything about it from the American media. Considering everything else that's happening, this just may be a low-priority news item for the American press.

I was living in Belfast in the late sixties when the current round of violence started. I have been heartsick about it ever since.

quote:

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Originally posted by Nicole Smith:
Terrorism is a massive problem! Not solveable by quick strikes.

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And if that was the whole solution being proposed, you'd have a valid point. But since it's not...

re E. Timor...have to admit i needed to consult a map to get a real handle on it....think you're right about the human rights violations that we (Am) engage in. these problems exist right here in our own country with our own people, too. just listen to the rhetoric fly during any election campaign and you'll hear what we wish we could be, but unfortunatley we frequently fall short...it IS a frustrating thing to have so much knowledge at our disposal when it really DOES feel like individually we have so little control...the modern mindset is therefore plagued with depression, sometimes with good cause. but while i admit we, as americans, seem to turn a blind eye to injustices around the world when it serves our particular needs, i think a lot of the time it is more a case of we're paralyzed by the details of our particular lives...not a good excuse, i know, but have you ever tried to get a prescription drug authorized by your insurance company? do you know how long it takes to accomplish simple tasks in a country this enormous? multiply that by every move you make and you have the typical american life....so E. Timor? i guess i need to go to the confessional, because i feel victorious if i make it to my annual town meeting. i have to add, too, that my priority is my family....i have seen many people committed to causes the world over while their families had to go fish...maybe part of the problem?

How would god have us pray our anger? or our cowardice? denying our anger will not make it go away. i do not glorify war. i have never seen a rambo movie. i did not like our involvement in vietnam, though i was really too young to know anything much about it. i greatly admire ml king and ghandi and all those good guys and the "idea" of pacifism. However. i don't like being chained to an ideology, either. a line of a certain collect resounds in my mind....to serve you is perfect freedom. that you is GOD. how do we, as individuals who fall short as moral arbitrators, serve god? not easily.

What is shaping up now is a much more subtle, international, multi-pronged, special operations kind of approach that may actually succeed in getting bin Laden (who, don't forget, is responsible for more trouble than the latest, largest outrage) and maybe even work out better in the end for Afghanistan.

I'm much encouraged by the developments of the last few days.

1. A wide range of nations support some form of action
   
2. A wide range of actions is considered: Financial, legal, law enforcement, as well as military.
   
3. No one has rushed out to seek revenge, no innocent bystanders has been harmed, and no military invasions seem probable in the immediate future.
   
4. On the other hand, the military options have not been ignored and, if true, stories of Special Forces operations suggest that realistic and appropriate actions are taking place.
   

I have two worries.

1. Special Forces can still be killed or captured. That would be a potential political crisis in the post-Vietnam US. (It is not clear that we have gotten beyond that experience.)
   
2. Adversaries may be amazed that we have done so well and shown such maturity and judgement. This may have been unexpected and very threatening; in some ways war is a zero-sum game. They are not helpless, however. They probably have several projects at various states of maturity; one or more might be pushed forward and unleashed to frighten and demoralize us. Increased vigilance is required, but consider: (can we nest lists in this language?)
   [list=A]
   
3. Schedule changes can expose the perpetrators to increased risk, especially from lack of the preparation so characteristic of bin Laden*s other operations.
   
4. The climate has changed and although action-cells can be counted on, support-cells may become unreliable. Intelligence leakage is a new phenemona for bin Laden, but as his force comes under increased pressure some parts may be less reliable than before.
   

I should have tried the list-nesting in Styx. Sorry, in advance, if it fails....