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Originally posted by Duo Seraphim:
NEWSFLASH for Phillip Jensen: St Francis of Assisi the saint is dead, St Francis of Assisi the sub-Christian outpost of Rome is very much alive and well and you can't be Pope because you aren't a Catholic.

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Originally posted by David:

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Originally posted by Duo Seraphim:
NEWSFLASH for Phillip Jensen: St Francis of Assisi the saint is dead, St Francis of Assisi the sub-Christian outpost of Rome is very much alive and well and you can't be Pope because you aren't a Catholic.

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The pope's catholic?

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3. [rant] At least you've got a church within an hour's drive of where you live! And an English-speaking one at that! It's not that bad! Besides which, how does making snide comments in a sarcastic tone about the Jensens help anyone? Why can't we just disagree with them peacefully, like we would with anyone else? (And don't say they started it!) Why can't we set a good example (to them) of being tolerant of people whom we disagree with rather than criticising them for intolerance and then turning around and doing exactly the same thing towards them? Whatever happened to love your enemy? [/rant]

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Originally posted by Nunc Dimittis:
Why does the distance one has to travel make a difference?

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is “an active members of the BMW Drivers Club of NSW and enjoys motorsport... recently became WIRES volunteers performing rescues of Australia's injured and sick wildlife.”

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is rejecting God. Of course, God is not present in the fellowship of friends, or the sacrificial care of injured animals. God is only present when women get preggers and squeeze out children.

The thing that really got my hackles up, though, was this. Our beloved dean has repeatedly condemned the media for it's uninformed and presumptious reporting. Yet, he quite cheerfully lifts details from a website about people he's never met, and with whom he has presumably never engaged, and publicly condemns their motives and accuses them of rejecting God. If someone did the same to him, he would be going on about how poor done by he is.

What's more, Christianity has a long history of valuing celibate and single people, as well as mothers and fathers. What's more, if one doesn't want children, surely one ought not to have them? In one fell swoop, Jensen has condemned those who choose, or even feel called, not to have children. What exactly does this achieve? Is this really a good form of mission, to condemn those who are not part of the fold? It's all very well for a church to teach a policy of compulsory procreation - even if some find it repugnant - but its another thing altogether for a church to condemn those who are not part of it! What a wonderful way to show the understanding and compassion of God!

I don't want children. I like children, otherwise I wouldn't teach the little buggers. But I don't want any, not least because the balance of the universe might be upset by more jugulars running around! Therefore, I am rejecting God. Sad, really.

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We’ve got to act like a church that hasn’t already internalized the narrative of its own decline Ray Suarez

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Originally posted by Charles Read:
Doesn't the cathedral have a church council or something which has to agree to changes like this? An English parish would probably have to get PCC approval for this - what is the Australian cathedral equivalent?

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Yes, we have a Cathedral chapter ... which just happens to be filled with the Usual Suspects from the Diocese - i.e. the fine upstanding unAnglican Anglican old-boy clergy. They all seem to be in full support of anything that a Jensen does, or proposes. Any vacancies on the Chapter will be filled by the choice of ... the Dean's brother, ++Peter Jensen.

As Nunc Dimittis says: *sigh*

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Originally posted by anglicanrascal:
At the Cathedral General Meeting (Sydney's St Andrew's Cathedral where Phil J is Dean) Fr Phil announced that we are about to have a 6-month "trial" of having Holy Communion with the elements served in the pews and the wine served in individual cups. No option for people who want the common cup.

Who will rid us of this turbulent presbyter?

Kyrie... Christe... Kyrie...

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Originally posted by multipara:
You know where to get the umbrellino....and a lot of spare white and gold drag.

I'm sure the sacristan at St Frank's would be happy to cooperate!

cheers,

m

PS Can't someone complain to the Primate?

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Can't someone complain to the Primate?

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Unfortunately the Primate has no canonical power to do anything.

Shot glass communion has been a part of Sydney Diocese for some time. There is no strict prohibition from our formularies. But, to force it on a congregation after a few months in the job is obscene and uncalled for! Especially seeing as the main "meeting" on Sunday is Morning Prayer, and "The Lord's Supper" is only celebrated at eight o'clock.

I am literally in shock over this abomination. Not because I think it makes the communion invalid, but because of the pastoral ineptitude and disregard for people that it demonstrates.

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We’ve got to act like a church that hasn’t already internalized the narrative of its own decline Ray Suarez

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Has any beleaguered parish in Sydney diocese requested AEO?

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I am literally in shock over this abomination.

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Originally posted by CJS:

Surely the dean is acting in line with the medical advice the diocese has received (see Common Cup Report)

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First, I'd have to ask if this infectious disease guy is a friend of Jensen, co-opted to give a pseudosciantific justification for doing away with what the Jensens probably see as some idolatry or other. Consider that the Anglican Church has had a common chalice for over five hundred years, and the Orthodox for 2000 years, give or take a few centuries, have been receiving bread and wind mixed from a spoon which is used to lift the Sacrament out of the chalice. Furthermore, priests in both Churches routinely consume the consecrated elements after the Mass, and should therefore get maximum exposure to any pathogens. I don't think there have been huge numbers of priestly deaths as a result, nor have the lay people been popping off like flies.

"That the bread be prepared by a person who has carefully washed their hands immediately beforehand." Is he actually saying that the rite of the Lavabo is acceptable? Or maybe he just didn't think about that.

"Fortified wine should be used and not grape juice. Where wine is diluted with water the quantity of water should be very small."
Grape juice? In an Anglican Church? And what a good way to get rid of that nasty Romish practice of mixing water with the wine

"plastic cups should be disposed of.....This should in no way lessen our sense of fellowship and of remembrance of Christ’s death for us."

Pretty much shows his Eucharistic theology.

Sounds a but contrived to me, especially when ID experts in other parts of the world have been giving the go-ahead to a common cup. One example:
http://www.concordtx.org/wrldnews/lsgerms.htm

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Israel also came into Egypt, and Jacob was a stranger in the land of Ham.

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Originally posted by shareman:
... the Orthodox for 2000 years, give or take a few centuries, have been receiving bread and wind mixed from a spoon which is used to lift the Sacrament out of the chalice.

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Originally posted by Duo Seraphim:

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Originally posted by multipara:
You know where to get the umbrellino....and a lot of spare white and gold drag.

I'm sure the sacristan at St Frank's would be happy to cooperate!

cheers,

m

PS Can't someone complain to the Primate?

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No Corpus Christi procession would be complete without a monstrance and humeral veil. There is a fabulous Spanish example we can lay hands on.

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Originally posted by CJS:
Surely the dean is acting in line with the medical advice the diocese has received (see Common Cup Report)

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And signing his name Peter F Jensen!!! Whatever happened to ++ Peter Sydney?

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Originally posted by Nunc Dimittis:
Just thought I'd share the following gem with you all:
Dean Philip Jensen's mother's day sermon

Gotta love that man for his straight thinking, *biblical* view that women who aren't barefoot and pregnant are rejecting God...

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Originally posted by multipara:
[QB]Perhaps you might like to think about just why more Jensen supporters do not post regularly on these boards; they generally don't like the "unchristian" ( not my definition) tone of the place.[qb]

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Originally posted by Magnum Mysterium:

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Originally posted by shareman:
... the Orthodox for 2000 years, give or take a few centuries, have been receiving bread and wind mixed from a spoon which is used to lift the Sacrament out of the chalice.

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Ooops! Preview post is NOT my friend! I reread this way too many times. You wouldn't buy, I suppose, that was making some obscure allusion to the Spirit? No, didn't think so!. Of course, what I meant to say was bread and WINE. Just God's way of telling me not to be so pompous, or perhaps it's a revealed truth!

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Israel also came into Egypt, and Jacob was a stranger in the land of Ham.

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Originally posted by Nunc Dimittis:

Gotta love that man for his straight thinking, *biblical* view that women who aren't barefoot and pregnant are rejecting God...

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Originally posted by multipara:
Perhaps you might like to think about just why more Jensen supporters do not post regularly on these boards; they generally don't like the "unchristian" ( not my definition) tone of the place.

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Not necessarily. If you were a Jensen supporter would you feel comfortable admitting it here? You wouldn't exactly expect a warm reception would you? Maybe a lot of people just keep quiet about this to avoid pointless conflict, and concentrate on other topics instead.

This post may or may not reflect my personal standpoint - make of it what you will

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Fancy a break beside the sea in Suffolk? Visit my website

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Originally posted by Beenster:

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Originally posted by Nunc Dimittis:

Gotta love that man for his straight thinking, *biblical* view that women who aren't barefoot and pregnant are rejecting God...

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Now this is good. This is very good indeed. Cos the next step is that he is going to help women get over their rejection of God by ensuring that they are with child. I can't think of a better man for the job.

Good women of Sydney: Do it for Australia.

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ROFLMAOPIP

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Originally posted by junior fool:
I happen to be an admirer of the Jensens, and have said so before on these boards, and I'm not embarassed to say so. But they aren't exactly my favourite topic of conversation, there are more exciting things to discuss, and I can't see the point in talking about something which will lead to unproductive (and boring) discussion. But we do exist and are willing to say so. Hope I haven't offended anyone.

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That's a pretty funky use of both the word 'literally' and the word 'abomination'. I think you have just taken OTT to a whole new level.

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Originally posted by jugular:
I second shareman, Junior Fool.

I'm in a position where there are lots of thing I would really like to admire about the Jensens. Like, +Peter's academic rigour and passion for mission, Phil's gift(?) for preaching, the way Michael has set up a vibrant inner-city church, the way Moore College takes the bible and the scriptures so seriously and so on.

But I can't because of their assertions to hold a monopoly on truth. They claim that Roman Catholics are "sub-Christian", charismatics don't believe the bible, Anglo-catholics don't preach the gospel, churches that ordain women are unbiblical, churches that support gay and lesbian people are damned, and other religions are "monstrous lies and deceits of Satan". By proclaiming that "relativism" is the great sin of modernity, I feel that they are sacrificing the tolerant and diverse society we value, and which values their point of view.

It's not that they're evangelicals, or that their name is Jensen, or that they don't like Anglo-catholics. It's their claim to hold monopoly on truth that is at the heart of the matter, and that is causing the greatest pain.

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