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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: "Secret" evangelical leaders meeting
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sidefall
Apprentice
# 16394
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evangeline:
Speaking of controlling and cultish groups, maybe the meeting has been secretly organised by the Sydney Anglicans who are coming to set the Church of England back on the one true path. Mwahahaha ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif) ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I know that was a joke, but would the Jensen family dynasty (ie Sydney diocese) want anything to do with charismatic and egalitarian anglicans, plus NFI and FIEC people, and maybe even some baptists? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by PDA:
Apparently the AA (cars not alcohol) have taken up most of the hotel over the past couple of days and also Blake Lapthorn solicitors but no Christian related bookings.
Curious, I have a screen grab of an FB post from Lee Gatiss saying he was at the Norton Park Hotel, and I'm sure someone else's twitter feed also gave the same venue.
Perhaps this was all a cunning plot - spreading disinformation to distract us from the real secret!
Seriously now, I don't have a problem with evangelical bigwigs getting together for a confidential discussion - in fact I think it has great value given the fractious nature of the movement. Talking face to face off the record is far better than attacking each other in the media, provided that the organisers take a broad approach with who they invite. Hopefully this sort of thing will help people realise that what they agree on is greater than what the disagree on (and I've just seen a pig flying past my window). I agree with Eutychus that it would be best if it had been fully open (ie all participants names released) or fully secret (with no leaks).
Posts: 42 | Registered: May 2011
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PDA
Apprentice
# 16531
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Posted
Its quite possible that Blake Lapthorn or one of their Partners have booked and even called this meeting to communicate a legal issue that has come to light that effects how the Evangelical organizations currently operate.
My money is on that.
Posts: 40 | From: Essex | Registered: Jul 2011
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sidefall
Apprentice
# 16394
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PDA:
Blake Lapthorn have a number of solicitors who specialise in charity law.
It is possible the meeting included a legal briefing. It's fair to say that a lot of evangelicals are concerned by the implications of equalities leglisation, gay marriage, etc.
Also, it's common for hotels to be booked under cover names to hide who's really there.
[Both these are pure speculation]
Posts: 42 | Registered: May 2011
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
Still can't get very excited about it.
I can see two broad possibilities:
a) some key decision will be made that will shape the form of British Evangelicalism for the next few decades.
b) basically just a talking shop that turned out not to generate anything really new.
My money's on b) and if so then what's the fuss?
If it's a) then any fuss will be about the decision not the fact that the discussions took place privately and delayed the publicity by a few days. And the arguable PR mis-step of tweeting about it, will be a minor footnote.
[XP, that was a reply to Eutychus]
[ 18. June 2014, 10:27: Message edited by: Late Paul ]
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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PDA
Apprentice
# 16531
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Posted
I do not think there is a fuss.
This is a forum where people discuss things because its fun.
That is what is happening.
Posts: 40 | From: Essex | Registered: Jul 2011
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Naivety does not equal stupidity which is, I think, the word you were looking for.
*Andrew Wilson's twitter account.
We are getting slightly off topic here, but actually look at how people use twitter for a moment. There are plenty of people with hundreds/thousands of followers who will use twitter to broadcast their particular thoughts to their audience but also use it as a point to point mechanism between people they know.
You even get this at the mega-celebrity twitter-mostly-managed-by-marketing end of the scale.
Plus, it wasn't a secret meeting. One could argue that the tweet was somewhat boastful[*], but that's not really worthy of a threadnaught is it.
[*] On which note, I love how those evangelicals who have bought into the idea of 'functional idolatry' being a sin then go on to describe themselves via their functions ("pastor. theologian. father").
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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PDA
Apprentice
# 16531
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Posted
Unless you are referring to the fuss you are making about the fuss we are not making.
Posts: 40 | From: Essex | Registered: Jul 2011
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sidefall
Apprentice
# 16394
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Posted
PDA - I doubt there's a pressing legal matter behind this meeting. That idea doesn't fit the delegate profile or what's been revealed about the discussions (I don't think they'd lie about what's happening). It would have to be something serious (and new and unknown) to warrant a two-day conference - and in Winchester?
Late Paul - evangelicalism is so fragmented that I can't see how any far reaching decision could be possible. I agree that it's just a talking shop, although I'm sure recent controversies will be discussed and there might be an attempt to arrive at a consensus.
[ 18. June 2014, 10:45: Message edited by: sidefall ]
Posts: 42 | Registered: May 2011
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PDA
Apprentice
# 16531
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Posted
Could be Gay related legal issues?
The team at Blake Lapthorn had something to do with the government legislation on Gay marriage.
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PDA:
Unless you are referring to the fuss you are making about the fuss we are not making.
I'm all about the meta.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sidefall:
Late Paul - evangelicalism is so fragmented that I can't see how any far reaching decision could be possible.
Nor I really. a) and b) were more like ends of a spectrum than strict alternatives. Or something, I was too focussed on the meta-fuss (or "muss" as I call it) to express myself clearly.
Mea culpa.
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
I haven't ever heard of any of these people - except Tom Wright.
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Jolly Jape
Shipmate
# 3296
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Posted
TBH, leo, neither have I, and I'm an evangelical! I suspect Gavin Claver might be Clive's son, but apart from that, bells remain steadfastly un-rung!
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To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)
Posts: 3011 | From: A village of gardens | Registered: Sep 2002
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sidefall
Apprentice
# 16394
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:
TBH, leo, neither have I, and I'm an evangelical! I suspect Gavin Claver might be Clive's son, but apart from that, bells remain steadfastly un-rung!
Yes, Gavin is Clive's son. I only knew because I have a book of his.
Most of the names weren't on my radar, either.
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
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Posted
They might be briefing the Holy Spirit as to the next suffragan Bishop of Basingstoke - only just up the road. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) There are some influential 'headship' voices in the Diocese.
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Qoheleth.:
They might be briefing the Holy Spirit as to the next suffragan Bishop of Basingstoke - only just up the road. There are some influential 'headship' voices in the Diocese.
Erk! That would be my bishop! I'm not sure what goes on at the distant NW end of the area, but my impression was that the Basingstoke area was fairly determinedly MOTR, even in the expression of the more evangelical and catholic parishes. But that's irrelevant I guess.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
quote:
Originally posted by Qoheleth.:
They might be briefing the Holy Spirit as to the next suffragan Bishop of Basingstoke - only just up the road. There are some influential 'headship' voices in the Diocese.
Erk! That would be my bishop! I'm not sure what goes on at the distant NW end of the area, but my impression was that the Basingstoke area was fairly determinedly MOTR, even in the expression of the more evangelical and catholic parishes. But that's irrelevant I guess.
Well, a CE Bishop of Basingstoke would certainly be a radical difference from Geoffrey Rowell (Bishop of Basingstoke from 1994 to 2001)!
There ARE some CE (or CE sympathetic) parishes in that area. In particular, I can think of St Mary's Eastrop, in Basingstoke itself. They would LOVE to have a CE bishop.
But the fact that the C of E feels the need to specifically create a CE bishop seems to sum up all that is wrong at the moment.
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
Firstly, I'm disappointed I wasn't invited (I wonder if our +Pete snuck in)
Secondly the late F.F. Bruce was doctrinaire and dull compared to Tom Wright ... in for example his commentary on Hebrews his paternalistic attitude of "our High Priest trumps their High Priest" is a supercessionist sneer simply not kosher in post-Auschwitz exegesis. Though I do consider NTW a useful corrective to some of the "Jesus was a lesbian dolphin" eisegesis that goes on in some quarters (albeit clearly not the Norton Park Hotel). In fact I'd rather even FFB or Leon Morris to that. But I digress.
Thirdly L.T. Johnson trumps either of them but I doubt he was invited. But I digress again.
Fourthly I'm disappointed I wasn't invited. Or did I mention that?
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
some of the "Jesus was a lesbian dolphin" eisegesis that goes on in some quarters (albeit clearly not the Norton Park Hotel).
It's a private/secret meeting. How do we know some of the "Jesus was a lesbian dolphin" eisegesis hasn't gone on at Norton Park?
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
(I wonder if our +Pete snuck in)
If he wasn't busy reorganising the West/North Yorkshire diocese I'd have thought Nick Baines. His blog is unusually quiet.
(Aside. I wonder what would happen if someone invited Nick Baines from Leeds expecting a bishop and got the guy from the Kaiser Cheifs?)
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blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
I can't help wondering whether this thread has had the inadvertent consequence of encouraging everyone to keep mum about it and chastening the indiscreet.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
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pete173
Shipmate
# 4622
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Posted
Nothing to do with me, since people keep asking. But there has been a (fairly irregular) consultation of evangelicals that has met on an invitation basis over the years, certainly since the 1980s. I forget who first kicked it off - Gerald Coates springs to mind.
Since 20 evangelicals in a room = 21 opinions and evangelicals have a summa cum laude in disagreement and fissiparousness, it's quite useful for them to try to stay in communication with each other (for example, there is the Evangelical Alliance and there is Affinity, who won't join with the EA because it plays with "mixed" denominations).
These gatherings are also pretty important for the various independents in the non-denominational tribes, because they don't tend to meet up as much as those in mainstream denominations. (Church of England evangelicals don't tend to be major players in these events anyway - too much else to do!)
So, I doubt that they're plotting. And the lack of capacity to work together or organise a booze-up in a brewery probably means they're just networking. (Indeed, some would only want the booze-up to be in a soft drinks factory...)
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Pete
Posts: 1653 | From: Kilburn, London NW6 | Registered: Jun 2003
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pete173:
Nothing to do with me, since people keep asking. But there has been a (fairly irregular) consultation of evangelicals that has met on an invitation basis over the years, certainly since the 1980s. I forget who first kicked it off - Gerald Coates springs to mind.
Since 20 evangelicals in a room = 21 opinions and evangelicals have a summa cum laude in disagreement and fissiparousness, it's quite useful for them to try to stay in communication with each other (for example, there is the Evangelical Alliance and there is Affinity, who won't join with the EA because it plays with "mixed" denominations).
These gatherings are also pretty important for the various independents in the non-denominational tribes, because they don't tend to meet up as much as those in mainstream denominations. (Church of England evangelicals don't tend to be major players in these events anyway - too much else to do!)
So, I doubt that they're plotting. And the lack of capacity to work together or organise a booze-up in a brewery probably means they're just networking. (Indeed, some would only want the booze-up to be in a soft drinks factory...)
To sum up, then...
"Nothing to see here, folks. Move along."
Yet if there WAS some secret plotting going on, this is EXACTLY the response I would have expected from Pete.
(Don't worry, Pete. I'm just messing with you!)
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Don't know if this is related to the OP or not, but I heard a rumour that on Thursday (19th) somewhere in the Oxford Diocese there was a meeting of evangelical clergy. They were supposed to be discussing what the CoE might do to make them want to leave it, and what action they might take if that happened. Is this the same thing or not?
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
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pete173
Shipmate
# 4622
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Posted
Nothing to do with this gathering.
There are meetings and consultations of various groupings of evangelicals within the Church of England to consider their response (a) if the ordination of women to the episcopate legislation goes through and they end up with a woman bishop [my view is that there is adequate "provision" for them under the new Measure] or (b) if the CofE were to give official liturgical sanction to same sex marriage [or some other related approval to SSM]. My hope is that they can get a grip and live with the CofE as it is, and not make plans to leave.
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Pete
Posts: 1653 | From: Kilburn, London NW6 | Registered: Jun 2003
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
Is the Salvation Army leader there, I wonder?
No, it's just evangelicals. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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pete173
Shipmate
# 4622
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Posted
Actually unfair. He would so self-identify (perhaps without the label). Brought a crowd (platoon?) to Spring Harvest this year and spoke on the vision for the Army. Very encouraging.
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Pete
Posts: 1653 | From: Kilburn, London NW6 | Registered: Jun 2003
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Blake Lapthorn had nothing to do with the evangelicals pow-wow: the religious bit was using conference facilities at the hotel but most of the participants were staying elsewhere.
Source : friendly BL Partner.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
Is the Salvation Army leader there, I wonder?
No, it's just evangelicals.
A brief tangent, but why isn't the Salvation Army considered to be properly evangelical by certain other evangelicals?
It's nothing to do with age, because other evangelical denominations are either older or younger than the SA. It can't be about women in leadership, since the Baptists and some of the Pentecostals (etc.) are okay about that. Is it do with the music they play or the uniforms? Perhaps their imagine isn't dynamic enough in the UK? Do they avoid the theological limelight so as not to bring controversy around their charity work?
I thought it might be because the SA has declined steeply, whereas the other British evangelicals see themselves as a growing force. But the stats I've seen show that some of the other types of evangelicals have declined too; at any rate, the growth of evangelicalism isn't making up for the losses elsewhere. It just means that evangelicals make up a bigger proportion of a declining cake.
Very mysterious.
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Daronmedway was teasing, of course.
Most evangelicals would consider the SA to be evangelical.
I suspect Daronmedway was using the term in its more reformed (or Reformed) sense.
Some of the more Reformed evangelicals would capitalise the E in Evangelical and claim that the only ones who can truly consider themselves to be Evangelical in the true sense are the Reformed Evangelicals.
Wesleyans and other forms of evangelical aren't properly Evangelical.
It's a bit like the distinction between Big O Orthodoxy and small o orthodoxy.
So Daronmedway, who is quite Calvinist and Reformed - albeit with charismatic leanings and practice - is teasingly suggesting that the SA aren't proper Evangelicals because they are not Calvinists but Arminians.
It's an in-joke, SvitlanaV2.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Very mysterious.
Not really. They are seen as somewhat sectarian and some of their beliefs are seen as odd (not celebrating communion).
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
digression
I suspect a meeting of evangelical clergy in my new diocese would have no difficulty coming up with a unanimous outcome. As long as someone gave him coffee.
/ digression
Can I lace it with rohypnol?
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
digression
I suspect a meeting of evangelical clergy in my new diocese would have no difficulty coming up with a unanimous outcome. As long as someone gave him coffee.
/ digression
Though unanimity would require that he doesn't solve the "I've got no one to disagree with" dilemma by disagreeing with himself.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
digression
I suspect a meeting of evangelical clergy in my new diocese would have no difficulty coming up with a unanimous outcome. As long as someone gave him coffee.
/ digression
You don't realise that the number of different opinions in a gathering of clergy is n+1, even assuming they are all of the same persuasion?
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Blog
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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Daronmedway was teasing, of course.
Most evangelicals would consider the SA to be evangelical.
I suspect Daronmedway was using the term in its more reformed (or Reformed) sense.
[...]
It's an in-joke, SvitlanaV2.
Okay, but it's not the first time I've read on the Ship that the SAs weren't considered to be theologically acceptable to certain evangelicals, so I thought there might be something else going on....
Anyway, my impression is that most of the world's evangelicals are not now Reformed/Calvinist in flavour (or not entirely), so if only impeccably Reformed evangelicals were attending this 'secret meeting' then there wouldn't be all that much to get excited about!
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Very mysterious.
Not really. They are seen as somewhat sectarian and some of their beliefs are seen as odd (not celebrating communion).
Do evangelicals as a whole get terribly offended by sectarianism? That might be a particularly CofE concern, but why would it bother any of the 1000s of evangelical Pentecostal groups?
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
quote:
Originally posted by Qoheleth.:
They might be briefing the Holy Spirit as to the next suffragan Bishop of Basingstoke - only just up the road. There are some influential 'headship' voices in the Diocese.
Erk! That would be my bishop! I'm not sure what goes on at the distant NW end of the area, but my impression was that the Basingstoke area was fairly determinedly MOTR, even in the expression of the more evangelical and catholic parishes. But that's irrelevant I guess.
Well, a CE Bishop of Basingstoke would certainly be a radical difference from Geoffrey Rowell (Bishop of Basingstoke from 1994 to 2001)!
There ARE some CE (or CE sympathetic) parishes in that area. In particular, I can think of St Mary's Eastrop, in Basingstoke itself. They would LOVE to have a CE bishop..
... and they have invited one this very weekend.
Ron, irrelevant to this thread, but note that Basingstoke Deanery Synod voted against the WB legislation the first time around.
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The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.
Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
Qoheleth wrote: quote:
Ron, irrelevant to this thread, but note that Basingstoke Deanery Synod voted against the WB legislation the first time around.
There is - or used to be - a whole cluster of FiF parishes in the countryside to the NW of Basingstoke, if I recall. It's very much a rural area (the bishop of Basingstoke's area that is). That may explain your observation on the original voting pattern as I presume those ones would all be in the Basingstoke deanery area.
I didn't originally mean to suggest there were no Con Evo parishes in the area at all. I seem to recall another one to the north of Basingstoke somewhere, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear of at least one somewhere near Andover, though I don't know of any personally. etcetera.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
@SvitlanaV2 - sure, yes you are right on the Reformed thing but that's part of the tease, I suspect, Daronmedway is pretending to me a more inflexible form of Reformed type than he actually is ...
At least, that's how I understand it ...
On evangelicalism and sectarianism. Yes, you are right, evangelicals have largely learned to live with - and indeed to celebrate - the plethora of multiplying variations on a theme.
Yet they still talk a lot about unity and I can remember feeling rather cynical and nonplussed at various evangelical charismatic inter-church gatherings (inter-church insofar as they drew from various evangelical/charismatic tribes) where there was much weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth about disunity and so on.
There'd be public shows of mutual forgiveness and reconciliation and so on - some of which could be genuinely moving, others of which I found a bit arch and 'staged'.
I used to wonder why, for all the hot-air, they didn't simply join forces if they had so much in common ...
Of course, not all that goes on in such gatherings is bluster and huffing and puffing, but there is a fair bit of that to cut through before you get to the marrow of it.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Also, I'm not sure that sectarianism is any more offensive to evangelical Anglicans than it is to other forms of evangelical.
A lot of evangelical Anglicans would consider themselves evangelicals first and Anglicans second. So if they moved town they'd look for a conducive evangelical church whether it were Anglican or otherwise. If a Baptist church suited them, they'd go there.
Certainly I know evangelical Anglicans - even evangelical Anglican vicars - who would prefer to worship with non-conformist evangelicals than Anglo-Catholics or liberals.
If they were on holiday, say, and wanted to attend a service they'd be more likely to go to a Baptist or Pentecostal one, say, than an Anglican one of a different tradition to their own.
I'm sorry, SvitlanaV2, I don't wish to offend, but we've had this out before, the more you post about the CofE the less I think you actually understand it or have the measure of it. That's not always the case, I find some of your observations about the CofE inciteful ...
![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) I'm a bit embarrassed to post that but it is an impression I get at times.
Generally speaking, evangelical Anglicans aren't that different from evangelicals in other churches - they simply operate within the framework of the CofE, ignoring or dispensing with those aspects that don't sit comfortably with them.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I'm sorry, SvitlanaV2, I don't wish to offend, but we've had this out before, the more you post about the CofE the less I think you actually understand it or have the measure of it.
I don't claim to know a great deal about the CofE; I'm here to learn. And I am learning, because the more YOU post about it, the more I realise I'd never truly belong in that denomination, even though I attend its services far more often than I used to do. So my contributions on this subject aren't useless to me, though others might find them mostly unhelpful.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Higgs Bosun
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# 16582
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Generally speaking, evangelical Anglicans aren't that different from evangelicals in other churches - they simply operate within the framework of the CofE, ignoring or dispensing with those aspects that don't sit comfortably with them.
Does that not also apply to most varieties of Anglican?
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
Qoheleth wrote: quote:
Ron, irrelevant to this thread, but note that Basingstoke Deanery Synod voted against the WB legislation the first time around.
There is - or used to be - a whole cluster of FiF parishes in the countryside to the NW of Basingstoke, if I recall. It's very much a rural area (the bishop of Basingstoke's area that is). That may explain your observation on the original voting pattern as I presume those ones would all be in the Basingstoke deanery area.
I didn't originally mean to suggest there were no Con Evo parishes in the area at all. I seem to recall another one to the north of Basingstoke somewhere, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear of at least one somewhere near Andover, though I don't know of any personally. etcetera.
With regards to the Basingstoke Deanery vote - I am guessing that St Mary, Eastrop had a large hand in that. They have large numbers and so have a high number of Deanery Synod reps. And, like most large CE churches, they are pretty organised in getting people out to something like this.
Apart from that, I don't know of any definite CE parishes north of Basingstoke, though there are a number of evangelical parishes of varying persuasions in the area.
As has been said, a lot of the area to the north of Basingstoke is rural, with relatively "traditional" parishes, although when I lived in the area, I wouldn't have said that there was a lot of anti-woman priest feeling.
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Sipech
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# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Generally speaking, evangelical Anglicans aren't that different from evangelicals in other churches - they simply operate within the framework of the CofE, ignoring or dispensing with those aspects that don't sit comfortably with them.
I would beg to differ on that point. The notion of the "conservative evangelical" was, for many years, a quite alien concept to me. Across a variety of evangelical churches I'd visited, the epithet was ill-deserved. It wasn't until I went to one of these churches that sits in the intersection of the Venn diagram containing the sets {evangelical} and {anglican} that I realised what people were on about.
Those anglicans whose understanding of evangelical churches is based solely on their experience of the anglican ones tend to have quite a skewed perspective.
For example, looking in the 5 mile radius around where I live, I can find just shy of 300 evangelical churches, of which just over 20 are anglican.
In short: while most anglicans aren't evangelical, it's also true that most evangelicals aren't anglican.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76
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Posted
There are two (at least) distinct species of Anglican Evangelical church - the Charismatic type, who as Gam says wouldn't be much different from any other Charevo church, and the Reform type, who are just plain scary.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
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Charles Read
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# 3963
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Posted
Graham Kings finds at least three types, but they overlap. It is approximately true that there are evangelical Anglican churches that are not really charismatic but are not REFORM. The one I attend is like that. We are fully in support of ordaining women (we have a home grown female curate being ordained in July), are informal in our worship style (but use Common Worship) but we do not have tongue-speaking (apart from when the computer and data projector break down in a service)or the very public prayer ministry I'd associate with charismatic churches.
PS my new upgraded computer wants to spell correct 'curate' to 'cruet' or 'cravat' - must be an ordination sermon in there somewhere...
Posts: 701 | From: Norwich | Registered: Jan 2003
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Gamaliel
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# 812
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Posted
I think you misunderstood my point, The Alethiophile. I probably didn't explain myself very well. I said 'generally speaking'.
I am well aware that most evangelicals aren't Anglican and that there are Anglican evangelicals who are distinctively 'Anglican' as well as evangelical.
I'm not disputing that.
I'm simply suggesting that to all intents and purposes - and I'd say that this is increasingly the case - there are swathes of evangelical Anglicanism that aren't particularly 'Anglican' in feel ...
I can think of several evangelical Anglican parishes I know that would be less overtly 'Anglican' now than they would have been 15 or 20 years ago.
I'm sure there are others where the reverse is the case.
@SvitlanaV2 - I'm not suggesting that you should feel at home in the CofE - it's not as if I do in some ways for that matter - simply making what may have been a very rude comment.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
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Jolly Jape
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# 3296
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Read:
Graham Kings finds at least three types, but they overlap. It is approximately true that there are evangelical Anglican churches that are not really charismatic but are not REFORM. The one I attend is like that. We are fully in support of ordaining women (we have a home grown female curate being ordained in July), are informal in our worship style (but use Common Worship) but we do not have tongue-speaking (apart from when the computer and data projector break down in a service)or the very public prayer ministry I'd associate with charismatic churches.
PS my new upgraded computer wants to spell correct 'curate' to 'cruet' or 'cravat' - must be an ordination sermon in there somewhere...
Yes, the silent majority, as it were; the Open Evos. Often charo-lite, services with vested clergy and a cut-down but definate liturgy, maybe praying for healing at the communion rail, and a mixed diet of traditional and contemporary music. So MOTR with evangelical theology, evangelical with a ten-minute sermon. They tend to warily follow the hierarchical line on dead-horse issues, but when SSM gets sanctioned by the church, will be enthusiastic proponents of celebrating it. Really, their presence is a sign of the proselytising success of more conservative groups, who have exhausted their natural (if somewhat narrow) constituency of like minded people, such that their theology has "bled" out into the community of those who are attracted to basal evangelical beliefs, but temperamentally unsuited to a "Reform" type environment, but also worry about the implications of using the light fittings as a trapeze.
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To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)
Posts: 3011 | From: A village of gardens | Registered: Sep 2002
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