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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Doctor Who: Silence will fall - the Doctor Who thread returns
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Anchorman
Apprentice
# 16469
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Posted
Some Time Lords had names (chancellor) Borussa, Morbius ( the one with the brain ), Omega ( Three Doctors), Rasselon ( the first?), etc.
It depends on the whim of the writer.
By the way, Why did a previous post mention Adric as a companion? I had to use my sleeve, as I ran out of tissues.
And Nobody mentioned Nissa - the brainy one.
Oh, and was K-9 a companion?
And of course, Captain Jack willbe/was an alien from the future.
Posts: 25 | From: South West Scotland | Registered: Jun 2011
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
Changing the subject entirely: why are the Doctor's Companions nearly always from contemporary (at the time of first broadcast) Earth Humans? Actually I can think of several reasons but two notable exceptions were Leela and Jamie MacKinnon (?).
Also Nyssa of Traken, Turlough, K-9 and Kamelion, and of course Romana. But yes, contemporary humans are easier for the viewer to identify with.
I got rather tired of the London-centric series as well. I know they did go to Amsterdam once (Arch of Infinity) but it would have been nice if just for a change, the Doctor could land in Birmingham or Cornwall instead.
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
Companions who aren't contemporary humans (*):
Susan (Gallifreyan)
Vicky (future human)
Stephen (future human)
Katarina (ancient Troy)
Sara (future human)
Jamie (18th century)
Victoria (19th century)
Zoe ('21st' century)
Leela (future human from a regressed culture)
Romana (Gallifreyan Timelord)
Adric (alzarian)
Nyssa (trakenite)
Turlough (trion posing as contemporary human)
'Jack Harkness' (future human)
River Song (time travelling human)
Katarina was killed off almost immediately. Sara didn't last much longer. In fact, I think the list includes all the companions who've died.
Of those, Leela, Jamie and Zoe almost certainly feature in the top ten best companions. (Maybe Romana when she was well-written and acted, but being hard to write counts against her.) Adric is perhaps the worst ever companion, with Turlough counting among the bottom five.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I got rather tired of the London-centric series as well. I know they did go to Amsterdam once (Arch of Infinity) but it would have been nice if just for a change, the Doctor could land in Birmingham or Cornwall instead.
They did go to Paris (City of Death) and Seville (The Two Doctors) as well.
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I got rather tired of the London-centric series as well. I know they did go to Amsterdam once (Arch of Infinity) but it would have been nice if just for a change, the Doctor could land in Birmingham or Cornwall instead.
You're just inviting people to make lists, aren't you? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Katarina was killed off almost immediately. Sara didn't last much longer. In fact, I think the list includes all the companions who've died.
That's another point I had never noticed before! While the show would occasionally go for the shock death of a companion, we have not yet killed off a "contemporary human."
Although they once were considering killing the Brig. But they didn't. And, well, they have killed off Rory five or six times, but it hasn't really taken.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Anchorman
Apprentice
# 16469
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Posted
One of my proudest possessions is a Dalek Annual, which I had as a Christmas gift, and has remained remarkably unsullied, unscribbled or even unpuked on for all these years...
The heroine was Sara Kingdom.
My first real crush was on a cartoon female.
Sorry.
Posts: 25 | From: South West Scotland | Registered: Jun 2011
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The Revolutionist
Shipmate
# 4578
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Posted
So, 14 more episodes of "Doctor Who" have been commissioned, but only a few of them will air in 2012, according to various reports. It seems like they're pushing it back to an autumn/winter start next year.
One of my friends has just written an article on Steven Moffat's story arcs for the Impossible Podcasts blog, titled Arc of Infinity, appropriately enough the Peter Davison fans in the audience. My friend reckons that the current format is an awkward half-way house between a full-blown serial drama and stand-alone stories, plus various other interesting observations and opinions.
quote:
Originally posted by wilson:
quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
I wish they would bring back Doctor Who, though. Proper Doctor Who.
What counts as "proper Doctor Who"?
"Proper Doctor Who" is Doctor Who as you watched it as an eight-year old. So just about every era of Doctor Who is "proper Who" for someone, and by the time you're a cynical adult, nothing will be proper Doctor Who again.
(Some of the really die-hard online "fans" seem not to like any actual "Doctor Who", only the version of it in their head that's part nostalgia, part Platonic ideal. I can point you to their blogs if you want to be depressed.)
quote:
Originally posted by Anchorman:
Now, I know they have the audio for ALL the missing stories; If they would just animate a couple, it would restore my faith - partially - in Auntie Beeb.
There's another animated reconstruction on the way - William Hartnell story The Reign of Terror. Hooray!
Posts: 1296 | From: London | Registered: May 2003
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Revolutionist:
There's another animated reconstruction on the way - William Hartnell story The Reign of Terror. Hooray!
Oo! Who's doing the animation? Cosgrove Hall, who I think did The Invasion, no longer exist in the form they did then. It's not the first story I'd have chosen, I must admit. After all, there is one notable Hartnell story, from which only one episode is missing, famous for introducing a celebrated bunch of tin blokes and paving the way for the great Troughton ...
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by The Revolutionist:
There's another animated reconstruction on the way - William Hartnell story The Reign of Terror. Hooray!
Oo! Who's doing the animation? Cosgrove Hall, who I think did The Invasion, no longer exist in the form they did then. It's not the first story I'd have chosen, I must admit. After all, there is one notable Hartnell story, from which only one episode is missing, famous for introducing a celebrated bunch of tin blokes and paving the way for the great Troughton ...
I was thinking the same thing! Why animate 2 missing episodes of an Historical when you could animate one episode that every fan worthy of the name would immediately want to buy?
Don't get me wrong. I will snap up Reign of Terror as soon as it hits the shelves. It just strikes me as an odd choice to test the market for such DVDs.
According to this, the animators will be Big Finish and Thetamation.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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George Spigot
Outcast
# 253
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anchorman:
Some Time Lords had names (chancellor) Borussa, Morbius ( the one with the brain ), Omega ( Three Doctors), Rasselon
Also Drax from The Armageddon Factor. Another renegade timelord who like the Dr got bored and left home. Unlike the Dr he was a bit of a clumsy prat.
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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html
Posts: 1625 | From: Derbyshire - England | Registered: May 2001
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
lots of timelord names around in the Deadly Assasin with Tom Baker.
I have discovered online episodes and am working through the Tom Baker series, currently at the start of Leela's time as assistant.
Since I started my Doctor Who time with Peter Davidson although some are familar though repeats many are all new to me ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
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http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1305 | From: west midlands | Registered: Mar 2010
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
On Time Lord names:
I think the idea that their names are long, unpronounceable and a bit secret goes back to Terrance Dicks's novelisation The Auton Invasion, when at the very end the Brigadier asks his name. The Doctor muses for a moment on the privacy and difficulty of Time Lord names, before opting for "Smith. Doctor John Smith!"
Later on, as others have said, we got lots of names, but I think we were meant to believe they were abbreviated versions, or just not their real names. Look at Romana, who first brazenly announced herself as "Romanadvoratrelundar". And maybe even that wasn't her full name.
I rather like the line taken by Neil Gaiman in The Doctor's Wife - I wish we could've met The Corsair!
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
I have discovered online episodes and am working through the Tom Baker series, currently at the start of Leela's time as assistant.
I was just watching Horror of Fang Rock and Leela's definitely one of the best companions the Doctor's had. (No, she isn't wearing that costume in Fang Rock.) Like most of the best companions, she uses her own initiative and doesn't take the Doctor at his own evaluation.
(There's a fine line between some of the best companions like Leela and Ace and some of the worst.)
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
I have discovered online episodes and am working through the Tom Baker series, currently at the start of Leela's time as assistant.
I was just watching Horror of Fang Rock and Leela's definitely one of the best companions the Doctor's had. (No, she isn't wearing that costume in Fang Rock.) Like most of the best companions, she uses her own initiative and doesn't take the Doctor at his own evaluation.
(There's a fine line between some of the best companions like Leela and Ace and some of the worst.)
That's what I was watching! Are we stuck in the same time loop...
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http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1305 | From: west midlands | Registered: Mar 2010
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
lots of timelord names around in the Deadly Assasin with Tom Baker.
Not all Gallifreyans are Time Lords...
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
All the renegade time lords that I can think of use aliases, unless you count Susan and Romana; and I think all the timelords who use aliases are renegades.
It's my theory that Gallifrey could track timelords using their names, so renegade timelords had to not use their names and wipe them from the records.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
At what point in the DW canon did the time war leave the Doctor as the 'only' remaining timelord?
Well, the first I heard about it was in the final scene of Christopher Eccleston's second story, The End of the World. It was chilling and shocking, the way he said, "My planet's gone. It's dead...."
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Well, the first I heard about it was in the final scene of Christopher Eccleston's second story, The End of the World. It was chilling and shocking, the way he said, "My planet's gone. It's dead...."
Yes, I think that is right. Certainly, Gallifrey was still up and running when the classic series ended and the Time Lords were still alive and kicking during Paul McGann's TV Movie, so the first time we had any hint about the extinction event would have been with Eccleston--and I don't think he mentioned it in the first story.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
So the loss of Gallifrey is a Moffett event?
To what end? To add some pathos to this lonely traveller identity? To set him free from the call backs and 'interference' from the past?
Although the loneliness and impact of being the last has been used eg the spacewhale/liz10 episode, has it been a closing off of possible plotlines and options more than an opening?
(Just reached the arrival of K9)
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http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
So the loss of Gallifrey is a Moffett event?
It's a Davies event. At the time, Moffatt was wondering whether gas masks were too scary.
[ 05. July 2011, 20:27: Message edited by: Dafyd ]
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
To what end? To add some pathos to this lonely traveller identity? To set him free from the call backs and 'interference' from the past?
Several reasons, I think. I may be wrong, but I think there are references to the destruction of Gallifrey in some of the novels that were written back in the 90s. I think Davies wanted to acknowledge at least some of those. (In fact, Human Nature / The Family of Blood started off as a novel featuring the 7th Doctor.)
I think there was an element of the "reset button" about it, too. Maybe they thought the Doctor had become too identified with the Time Lords, or that Time Lord culture was just too much baggage to carry over into the new series. Remember, back in the 60s, the term "Time Lord" wasn't even invented until the end of season 6! - the Doctor was just a mysterious alien traveller, cut off from his own people for reasons that were never fully explained.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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The Revolutionist
Shipmate
# 4578
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
To what end? To add some pathos to this lonely traveller identity? To set him free from the call backs and 'interference' from the past?
Several reasons, I think. I may be wrong, but I think there are references to the destruction of Gallifrey in some of the novels that were written back in the 90s. I think Davies wanted to acknowledge at least some of those. (In fact, Human Nature / The Family of Blood started off as a novel featuring the 7th Doctor.)
I think there was an element of the "reset button" about it, too. Maybe they thought the Doctor had become too identified with the Time Lords, or that Time Lord culture was just too much baggage to carry over into the new series. Remember, back in the 60s, the term "Time Lord" wasn't even invented until the end of season 6! - the Doctor was just a mysterious alien traveller, cut off from his own people for reasons that were never fully explained.
The official line of Doctor Who novels blew up Gallifrey in a novel called The Ancestor Cell, published 2000. The books had become bogged down by a storyline about a future (relative to the Doctor's timeline) Time War between the Time Lords and a mysterious Enemy (not the Daleks!), and so Gallifrey was destroyed/wiped from history by the Doctor to stop the war. It was a way of clearing the decks for new storylines in the novels, basically.
But when the show returned to television, the books had to resurrect Gallifrey, so that it would be around to be destroyed in a Time War with the Daleks as per the new series! This took place in The Gallifrey Chronicles (2005). It must be awkward being a Time Lord, and not knowing whether or not you're supposed to exist at the moment, or who your enemy is right now.
There are a number of possible reasons why Russell T Davies got rid of the Time Lords. If they're around, they're a massive safety net for the Doctor - if the universe is in danger, then you've got this race of powerful beings ready to step in if the Doctor doesn't save the day.
Also, they tend to be more interesting when they're off-screen. The legend of the Time Lords as this all-powerful super-species is exciting when it's mythology in the background. When they actually show up they're usually just a bunch of useless old men in silly hats.
Finally, the Doctor being the Last of the Time Lords (tm) means that the actor playing the Doctor can get all teary eyed and emo at least once per season about being the last of his kind, and a bit of angst is apparently obligatory for heroes these days.
I wouldn't want the Time Lords back full-time, so to speak, but I think there are plenty of interesting stories that can be done by introducing other renegade Time Lords - I'd love to see the Meddling Monk as played by Bill Bailey, for example. Or you could have a storyline about a small group of surviving Time Lords intent on reclaiming their control of history.
And then there's always the Master when you need a mad supervillain, which is a handy storytelling device because it saves you inventing a villain with a proper motivation.
Posts: 1296 | From: London | Registered: May 2003
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I have been watching Moffat's series from the start as repeats come up, and there are some interesting features with regard to the later series arc. There is a frequent theme of forgetting and the need for remembering, and not simply with the case of Rory going by proximity to the crack.
But most interesting are other things. The prisoner in the opening story is the source of both the "The Pandorica will open" and the "Silence will Fall" predictions. However, when the aliens in Venice speak of the silence, it is clear they are speaking of a nothingness, the end of everything, and not any sort of entities.
And when River Song is introduced to Amy, she shows no reaction. Not that they have already met in her past. Nor that the name is the name of her mother. Nothing. Zilch. Blank face. Not even controlled blank face. Amy Pond is a meaningless name for her.
I really didn't want to become the sort of person who watches like this. But it does look very much like evidence for making it up as he goes along, which I thought was the one thing he could not be accused of doing.
Torchwood next week. In the good old USA. With lots of money, and Russell Davies' authorship. I wonder if they are synchronising diaries.
Penny
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
And when River Song is introduced to Amy, she shows no reaction. Not that they have already met in her past. Nor that the name is the name of her mother. Nothing. Zilch. Blank face. Not even controlled blank face. Amy Pond is a meaningless name for her.
And contrast that to when we first met River, in the Library. When she learned that the Doctor's companion was Donna Noble, she did a shocked gasp ("You're Donna Noble?) before refusing to discuss it any further. So even at the end of her physical life, River wasn't exactly a master of keeping a poker face.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Hugal
Shipmate
# 2734
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Posted
Nissa was alien royalty, Leela (one of my first boyhood crushes) was decended from human space explorers. Romana was a Time Lord and (hugal opens a can of worms) the best Romana was Mary Tam, much more of a match for the Doctor.
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I have never done this trick in these trousers before.
Posts: 1887 | From: london | Registered: Apr 2002
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
And when River Song is introduced to Amy, she shows no reaction. Not that they have already met in her past. Nor that the name is the name of her mother.
I suppose you can see that it makes some kind of sense from River's point of view. River's had to get used to her parents not knowing who she is.
But yes, the relationship's generally not been there. Moffatt may have been making it up as it goes along, but it may be that he's been subordinating aspects of it to keeping the mystery going. Even in this last episode, when River says today is the day the Doctor finds out who I am, she's talking to Rory - you'd think your parents finding out who you are would be more significant to anyone than your husband finding out who your parents are. (Even if you were kidnapped as a baby, and the first time you were reunited with your parents was when mummy shot you.)
quote:
Torchwood next week. In the good old USA. With lots of money, and Russell Davies' authorship. I wonder if they are synchronising diaries.
I'm not sure that lots of money and Russell Davies' authorship are necessarily good signs. Children of Men was the best Torchwood so far, but the standard it had to beat wasn't exactly high.
Also, Moffatt apparently wanted Jack to appear in A Good Man Goes to War, and couldn't have him because of Torchwood, which I think is a small pity.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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The Revolutionist
Shipmate
# 4578
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
And when River Song is introduced to Amy, she shows no reaction. Not that they have already met in her past. Nor that the name is the name of her mother. Nothing. Zilch. Blank face. Not even controlled blank face. Amy Pond is a meaningless name for her.
And contrast that to when we first met River, in the Library. When she learned that the Doctor's companion was Donna Noble, she did a shocked gasp ("You're Donna Noble?) before refusing to discuss it any further. So even at the end of her physical life, River wasn't exactly a master of keeping a poker face.
From River's point of view Time of Angels is her last meeting with Amy, whereas that was the one and only time she met Donna. So it's not so surprising that when she met Amy (from her point of view after the events of the other Moffat era stories) she's able to keep a poker face to avoid "spoilers". But you might expect something of a reaction when they part company, since she should be able to work out it's the last time she'll see her mum.
Apparently Steven Moffat didn't tell Alex Kingston that River is Amy's daughter until the start of this series, so as to avoid the knowledge affecting her performance and making it too obvious. He also kept River's first conversation with Rory off-screen in The Pandorica Opens for this reason. She's not shown to react to Rory in that story, but does at the beginning of A Good Man Goes to War, which implies she hasn't seen him before, or at least for not some time.
Moffat claims to have worked it all out, so I've still got faith it'll make some kind of sense in the end, even if there are lots of loose ends at the moment.
Posts: 1296 | From: London | Registered: May 2003
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
John Barrowman on the One Show.
"There will be three brand new Torchwood radio plays on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday next week before the TV show starts on Wednesday."
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Not having told Alex Kingston fits what I saw, but there's a difference between a poker face and an face innocent of knowledge. She did a double take at being told of her academic status in the future. And that still leaves the Silence as an absence of things rather than a bunch of aliens.
In Amy's Choice, which I saw tonight, Rory is seen looking at a cot and a mobile, clearly longing to care for a baby. It is so sad to think that he and Amy will be deprived of that with their daughter.
Incidentally, Arthur Darvill is playing Mephistopheles in Doctor Faust in London. (Matt Smith is not playing the Doctor.)
Penny
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
(Sigh.)
So the Starz network in the USA is beginning an American based "Torchwood" series soon. You think all this mucking around with Area 51 and the CIA is a lead up, tie in, whatever?
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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The Revolutionist
Shipmate
# 4578
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Posted
I've seen the first episode of the new series of Torchwood - it's pretty good, and I'm looking forward to watching the rest of the series.
Like Children of Earth, it's got a high-concept premise: one day, everyone stops dying. They can still get sick and be injured and grow old, it's just that no-one actually dies.
It's still recognisably Torchwood, despite the shift to America. I've posted my spoiler-free review to Impossible Podcasts, and we'll be posting our audio commentary after UK broadcast.
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
I enjoyed it. High concept, but as you say in your blog it's very American in style now.
Not that that's a bad thing, just different.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Revolutionist:
it's pretty good
It's still recognisably Torchwood
Are those entirely compatible?
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Revolutionist:
It's still recognisably Torchwood, despite the shift to America.
Well, that's a relief. I might just check it out now. I did run across it last night after I posted, but was wrapped up in something else. No worries, beings it's Starz, it will rerun about 180 times in the next week.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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hilaryg
Shipmate
# 11690
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Incidentally, Arthur Darvill is playing Mephistopheles in Doctor Faustus in London.
And very good he is too. Takes a bit of a mental shift to see him as the agent of the Devil instead of the essentially good Rory, but once you've made it, its fine. Apart from the scene where Faustus quizzes Mephistopheles in the motion of celestial objects in time and space, which was a brief "huh?" moment.
A satisfying play from a Christian perspective too.
Posts: 261 | From: back home in England | Registered: Jul 2006
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
Started watching the Peter Davison episodes. I have always had a very strong memory of one of them that involved glass chimes and I found it last night - right at the beginning of his time as doctor. Called Kinda the story had Tegan fall asleep under the chimes and a baddie called the Mara used that to cross into the regular world - marking the host with a snake on the arm.
It was definitely the episode I remembered with all the snakey bit coming back as I watched it, but surprised that it was so early (in my terms) if I was remembering from its first broadcast that would be 1981 - when I was just 6.
I have no idea why a single episode would burn itself into my mind so much - was it perhaps one of the first I watched? Did it give me nightmares at the time?
Does anyone else have memories of specific eopisodes you saw as a child?
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http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/
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Adeodatus
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# 4992
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Posted
Kinda is a great story with a superb script, let down by the fact that the special effects demanded by the script couldn't possibly have been realised within the budget. For a long time the poor effects mean it suffered a bad reputation, but these days it always features in fans' opinion polls among Davison's better stories. Kinda is really all about the words and the concepts. The script has some fine dialogue and prose, and the concepts, which include Buddhism, Taoism, and the occasional nod in the direction of T.S.Eliot, raise it a bit above the normal run of Doctor Who stories.
The sequel, Snakedance, is in my opinion a slightly poorer script, better realised - but again, thoroughly worth watching.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
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Adeodatus
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# 4992
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Posted
I should also have said that yes, Kinda can be deeply unsettling. Tegan's dream scenes are weird, and the Trickster figure in the dreams is a really nasty piece of work.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
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Ariel
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# 58
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Posted
There were some interesting episodes in the Davison series which didn't quite fit the normal run of things - Enlightenment, which also plays with a metaphysical theme (slightly spoilt by the two Guardians sitting there with chickens on their heads, though) and Castrovalva, which has that wonderful Escheresque building. These are my two favourite episodes from the Davison era.
Btw on a different if related note anyone see Torchwood tonight? This feels to me pretty much on a par with the film version of Doctor Who (the Paul McGann version). Not sure I feel engaged enough to watch any further episodes.
(The baby is really cute though.)
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Btw on a different if related note anyone see Torchwood tonight? This feels to me pretty much on a par with the film version of Doctor Who (the Paul McGann version). Not sure I feel engaged enough to watch any further episodes.
(The baby is really cute though.)
Very ininspiring. A lot of running round and trying to find excuses for Torchwood to be in the US, but otherwise just rather ridiculous.
A couple of moments of fail leapt out at me - "It's not a virus, it's malware" could possibly be forgiven as the meaning is fairly clear in context, but adding the people who ought to be dying to the new births to get the rate of population growth? Er, no.
I'll probably watch the next one, but it's definitely on probation. I'll allow for a certain amount of scene-setting given the transatlantic focus, but it's not a patch on Children of Earth at this point.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
I'll probably watch the next one, but it's definitely on probation. I'll allow for a certain amount of scene-setting given the transatlantic focus, but it's not a patch on Children of Earth at this point.
On the other hand, none of the supposed good guys have yet used an alien artifact to commit date rape or smuggled a cyberman into HQ without telling anyone in the name of moral ambiguity. Give it credit where credit is due.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
... or smuggled a cyberman into HQ...
Cyberbabe I think you'll find.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
On the other hand, none of the supposed good guys have yet used an alien artifact to commit date rape or smuggled a cyberman into HQ without telling anyone in the name of moral ambiguity.
Yes, I think that's what missing - that and Ianto.
And we're still stuck with Gwen Cooper who will continue to get hysterical, throw her weight around, scream at Jack and Rhys and be altogether thoroughly irritating. ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
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The Revolutionist
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# 4578
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by The Revolutionist:
it's pretty good
It's still recognisably Torchwood
Are those entirely compatible?
On the basis of Children of Earth, yes. And the problem with the first two series was that they were terribly executed, but it was possible to see the potential for the show to be good if only it was better written and got over it's schlocky "adult" fetish.
Miracle Day could go either way at this point. Russell T Davies' pilot for series 1 wasn't bad but the show nosedived from there, but this seems to be trying to follow the Children of Earth model.
You can listen to my podcast commentary on episode 1 over at Impossible Podcasts.
Posts: 1296 | From: London | Registered: May 2003
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Revolutionist:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by The Revolutionist:
it's pretty good
It's still recognisably Torchwood
Are those entirely compatible?
On the basis of Children of Earth, yes.
That would be one where they blew up the secret base and killed off the most popular member of the main cast? And nobody snogged anyone that they weren't supposed to?
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I thought the concept of not dying was horrible in its interpretation, especially with regard to the burned head. I'm not sure they are sure what being alive means, since there was a shot of a still alive severed arm in the trail for next week. Apart from being an opportunity for gross-out shots. And, given that Jack knows about what is going on, his total lack of reaction to the crashed copter, with its now horribly not dead incompetent gunmen is dubious. And how come no-one in the landrover got shot? And how come we are supposed to go along with the rendition of Jack and Gwen with the collusion of the British police?
Guess what, I don't like it. It seems to have gone direct to the place in X-files where I stopped watching that.
And I know it is after the watershed, but I think people are going to have problems with younger viewers wanting to watch it.
I did like the lost files on radio this week.
Penny
[ 16. July 2011, 10:25: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
The not-dying thing is an interesting premise, but it's already been done by Saramago in Death at Intervals.
Davies has form recycling recent atheist literature. Doctor Who Season Two ended with Davies recycling the Amber Spyglass (which I would think is rather better known in this country than Saramago). For some reason I've never seen anyone comment on that. Perhaps it's just so obvious nobody else has thought it needed saying.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Could you spell out the parallels with The Amber Spyglass please? I've never been struck by a resemblance, but it's a long time since I read the book, and my memory isn't what it was.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
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