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Source: (consider it) Thread: Doctor Who: Silence will fall - the Doctor Who thread returns
BroJames
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# 9636

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I think it is interesting that Amy's words on waking at the end were "Where is she?". Is there more to come from this story?
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Ariel
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# 58

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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Matt Smith is a very popular Doctor, and I think a lot of people like the Amy-Rory partnership.

Seriously? Rory is a doormat (and an aesthetically challenged one at that) who puts up with a brash, hardboiled, unlikeable young woman with seemingly no ability for compassion or kindness, who spends half her time overtly fancying someone else. Rory really ought to dump her at the first opportunity and get a life. There's no on-screen chemistry between them at all and it totally fails to convince, except possibly as TV's Least Convincing Romantic Couple.

And how the two of them are supposed to have produced someone with as much life, personality and spark as River Song I don't know. She certainly didn't get it from either of them.

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Jay-Emm
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# 11411

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quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
A new nadir for NuWho.

in what respect?


personally i quite liked it. Sets felt Alien, better running of 'good intentions' than the pirates (incidently that would have been rather odd so Close). Resolution proportionate.
Not sure about the tome streams being the right way round. May have got usethe explanation backwards. But wasn't the idea to match the plague victims (Amy) day with visitors life (rory)?

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dorothea
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# 4398

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I thought 'The Girl Who Waited' was a really good episode. I actually cared, which I haven't done since Dr Donna actually began to work for me. Arthur Darvell's a very good actor and Karen gave her best yet. I liked the comedy with the two Amies thinking and speaking simultaneously, despite the age - and the rotten life experience - gap.

The only bit that didn't quite work for me (when did the plots ever really make sense, I ask myself, they're so daft they're irrelevant yet madly brilliant so long as logic is suspended: D.T taking the Tardis across several universes with the help of a washing line????) was how come, if the kindness robots were primed to anaesthetise and then end the plague victims' lives, when Amy went through the second door into the main facility, there was an entertainment complex that included the beautiful garden, which appears to have kept the older version of her sane? The roots were keen to kill her with kindness well before she went into the, what I assumed to be, an entertainment holo-suite.

Och, well.... good stuff though.

J

[ 11. September 2011, 14:11: Message edited by: dorothea ]

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dorothea
Goodwife and low church mystic
# 4398

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Apologies for double post. Roots = robots.

Also, one of the things I love about the daftness of Dr Who are the mad, not remotely scientific props that the Dr uses to solve the most complex time space conundrums: washing lines, bits of plastic, bicycle parts, ancient tape recorders, etc. It's like the director's saying hey guys forget the so called sci-fi realism and let's just get off on this marvellous fiction. [Yipee]

[ 11. September 2011, 14:19: Message edited by: dorothea ]

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Protestant head? Catholic Heart?

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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Adeodatus:
quote:
Robert Armin, I'd love to ask what, for you, is good Doctor Who? (Ask that on most fan sites and you tend to get very predictable answers. Sine this is the Ship, surprise me!)
Fair question but, since I don't hang around on fan sites, I've no idea if I'm going to be predictable or not.

The most essential thing for me - and this applies to any story, be it TV, film, theatre or novel - is characters I am interested in. In this respect Amy is a massive let down, and Smith a minor. Actually I do like Rory, but wish he would dump his wife and find someone better. Which is why, for all its faults, I liked the Kiling Hitler episode because I was drawn to both Mel and River. For me, and most of the people I chat to, Smith has not yet made the Doctor his own, and he's had plenty of time by now. Maybe he's not the dullest Doctor ever but he's near the bottom of the pile (along with Colin Baker and McCoy).

Something else I enjoy, which was very much a feature of NuWho, is strong individual stories that are also part of a wider arc. This has been much discussed earlier, but for me the highpoint of the revival was the end of the Martha Jones series. Not only was she the best companion we've had in NuWho, there was effectively a six-part finale with excellent individual stories (the Family of Blood, Weeping Angels, return of the Master) culminating in a magnificent conclusion. Since Moffat took over there have been many dull episodes, just a couple of good ones (Van Gogh, and the Doctor's Wife) and no sense of a series going anywhere. Most of the episodes could have been shown in any order and they would still make as much (or as little) sense. For a young couple who have lost their baby Amy and Rory are remarkably undistressed. (Yes, they know she is going to be all right, but someone who gives a child up for adoption would know that as well. I think they would still grieve, however.) And the big premise of the season, that the Doctor will die, completely fails to affect me. We all know that there is no way the BBC will allow that to happen, so there is no sense of tension. Well, not for me or the other Whovians I know personally.

Clearly your mileage does vary, as does that of several other posters here. Which is why I do enjoy reading the opinions posted here, even if I am going against the current.

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291

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I liked it a lot. The bit that got me was old Amy toying with her lipstick. I felt that Karen Gillan was actually acting: her body language was very good (the hair and eyes were too bright, though). Usually, I find Amy really really annoying (though not as annoying as Karen Gillan in Confidential).

Yes, there were holes - I wondered why no-one mentioned Rory's 2,000 year wait, too (I think he didn't get older because he was plastic, to the person who mentioned that up thread). And my biggest gripe is that Amy and Rory are just not acting like new parents whose baby has been kidnapped.

But I liked it.

M.

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Nenya
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I suppose this thread demonstrates the way the series appeals to all sorts of people for all sorts or reasons and that's one of its strengths. I agree Rory and Amy aren't behaving like parents who have just lost their baby but I find that storyline quite depressing and am glad to see these stand-alone episodes that, for me, are a lot of what Dr Who is about. I think Amy and Rory are great and wouldn't mind if I didn't see River Song again. [Biased]

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M.
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# 3291

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Originally posted by Robert Armin:

quote:
This has been much discussed earlier, but for me the highpoint of the revival was the end of the Martha Jones series. Not only was she the best companion we've had in NuWho, there was effectively a six-part finale with excellent individual stories (the Family of Blood, Weeping Angels, return of the Master) culminating in a magnificent conclusion.
Whereas I, although I loved Family of Blood and the Weeping Angels one (I assume you mean Blink?), found the return of the Master and the conclusion hugely overblown and, even in Doctor Who terms, ludicrous.

And I like Rory a lot! And I think Matt Smith makes a good Doctor, better than David Tennant, at least towards the end. Not as good as Christopher Ecclestone, though.

Good we're all different, ain't it?

M.

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Ariel
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# 58

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OK, I've started a Definitive Poll in the Circus to help us settle these important questions.
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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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I loved David Tennant, but I realised the other day that Matt Smith solidly convinces me that he is 900+ years old. I think his performance has raised the Dr. Who bar.

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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rufiki

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quote:
Originally posted by dorothea:
...how come, if the kindness robots were primed to anaesthetise and then end the plague victims' lives, when Amy went through the second door into the main facility, there was an entertainment complex that included the beautiful garden, which appears to have kept the older version of her sane? The roots were keen to kill her with kindness well before she went into the, what I assumed to be, an entertainment holo-suite.

I don't think the robots were trying to kill Amy. My understanding is that they identified foreign bacteria and wanted to kill that. If they didn't realise* that Amy was also foreign, they wouldn't know that some of the bacteria in her body is supposed to be there.

*Presumably as the entire planet was under quarantine, no-one bothered writing a program that said "check species of patient".

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
And I don't just mean the special effects - the pace of the old show is far too slow by modern standards. Every now and then the action would stop for a long, tedious info-dump of explanation about why things were happening the way they were.

I've just been watching the Silurians. It's true that it's much slower. However, it's not because of any tedious info-dumps. Rather there's quite a lot of focus on wranglings between UNIT and members of the nuclear laboratory, each with their own agenda, even well into episode six. Most of those aren't really relevant to the human-Silurian conflict, which establishes its own sense of reality.
Secondly, there are long sequences of the Doctor doing things like silently putting red food colouring into test tubes and noting down results, which although they just about don't outstay their welcome do take up more time than is necessary for their role in explaining the plot. These days, we'd just have someone tell us that the Doctor's done it or is doing it, and if he were to do it on screen he'd just buzz his sonic screwdriver at it.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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Even in Moffat's least good episodes (probably The Impossible Astronaut is the least good) there's more genuine emotion than in all of Davies' series finales put together. But Davies' episodes have a hell of a lot more kitsch sentimentality which some people apparently prefer.

Mostly Moffat has been free of kitsch sentimentality. The exception is A Good Man Goes to War. The bits about the Doctor having never risen so high or fallen so far are just hyperbole. And for me the River Song has parents! revelation has rather soured the character.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Avila
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# 15541

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quote:
Originally posted by dorothea:
The only bit that didn't quite work for me (when did the plots ever really make sense, I ask myself, they're so daft they're irrelevant yet madly brilliant so long as logic is suspended: D.T taking the Tardis across several universes with the help of a washing line????) was how come, if the kindness robots were primed to anaesthetise and then end the plague victims' lives, when Amy went through the second door into the main facility, there was an entertainment complex that included the beautiful garden, which appears to have kept the older version of her sane? The roots were keen to kill her with kindness well before she went into the, what I assumed to be, an entertainment holo-suite.

Och, well.... good stuff though.

J

I thought that the anaesthia was before treating the foreign bacteria after which the patient would live life in the entertainment areas.

And re query above about time lines - it does mess with logic but I took it that visitors are in normal time and the patients with only 1 day to live are speeded up to have a full life in that time - except, that if isolated from other people's timespeed then not much of a life. Speeded up biology that doesn't speed up the plague is the logic gap there.

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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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DW - just watched it. And I thought it was a great episode - nice to see one with The Dr not taking the main parts, as they generally have one of per series. And I still like Amy - I think the older Any was very like Amy would have become - clever, regretful, and bitter - because she is passionate ( IMO ).

Torchwood - yes I thought "The "Blessing" looked like a large vagina. Which seems to be rather a contradiction.

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Blog
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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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doubtingthomas
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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Rory is a doormat (and an aesthetically challenged one at that) who puts up with a brash, hardboiled, unlikeable young woman with seemingly no ability for compassion or kindness.

...which is pretty much the reverse of your average television drama couple, and IMHO, quite fun for that reason alone. In addition, we have actually learned a few things about them here and there over the past year and a half.


quote:
Originally posted by M.

Good we're all different, ain't it?

Agreed!
I thinks it depends on each of us whetehr or not we like or care about certain characters, it does not necessarily refelct on the quality of writing. Personally, much as I like tennant as an actor, I prefer Smith's portrayal of the Doctor. I can also sympathize more with messed-up Amy than with some others, but I can see that a character-driven episode such as this one just won't work for people who don't, no matter how well it was written and acted.

quote:
Originally posted by Avila:

And re query above about time lines - it does mess with logic but I took it that visitors are in normal time and the patients with only 1 day to live are speeded up to have a full life in that time - except, that if isolated from other people's timespeed then not much of a life. Speeded up biology that doesn't speed up the plague is the logic gap there.

I think that is a flaw in the logic of those who run the establishment, not (necessarily) the writer. The establishment seems to have general problem with the meaning of "kindness", and it is quite possible that this incongruity was meant to reflect of that.
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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Ariel's dislike of the current Doctor Who is not in itself weird - we all have the odd irrational hatred - but what is strange is the way Ariel seems to want the reassurance that we all share the same rather sour views about Amy and Rory. Well we don't! They are good! And most of the recent programs are good!

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Matt Black

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Another good episode IMO. Clever emotions at the end and, whilst I normally dislike timey-wimey stuff, this time it was Well Done, as Mr Knightley might say.

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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)

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Penny S
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# 14768

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Yes, I knew Rory didn't age because he was plastic, and didn't mention it because I assumed everyone else did, too. I wasn't sure how this would affect his experience of the time - it doesn't seem to have been comparable because he cannot remember it unless he tries.
The endured time that has always bothered me was the episode of Torchwood in which Jack was buried for 2000 years, a sequence of frequent appalling death experiences followed by appalling resurrections. And yet he was sane at the end.

Penny

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Adeodatus
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# 4992

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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
...a sequence of frequent appalling death experiences followed by appalling resurrections...

Not dissimilar from John Barrowman's experience of Saturday evening tv appearances in general.

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
...a sequence of frequent appalling death experiences followed by appalling resurrections...

Not dissimilar from John Barrowman's experience of Saturday evening tv appearances in general.
[Killing me]

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Blog
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Sparrow
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# 2458

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quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
The establishment seems to have general problem with the meaning of "kindness", and it is quite possible that this incongruity was meant to reflect of that.

I thought of (a) "killing with kindness" and (b)the way we use the expression "it's a kindness" when putting an animal out of its misery.

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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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art dunce
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It reminded me of Donna and her getting her memory wiped. She had hard won character development, was a real hero who overcame the short sighted pettiness and ignorance we saw in her first episode to become an incredible person and that was taken from her and she was dumped back without the benefit of any of those experiences. Then we have Amy who goes from the weeping damsel in distress to literally a knight in shining armour...sword and all who has battled her demons, saved herself through bravery and cunning, hacked the system, built a screwdriver and become for the first time as an adult in this series an incredibly compelling character. I saw brave Amelia turned into the hero she should be. I wanted her to get on the Tardis and turn their little paradigm on its ear. Explain to the Doctor that all of time and space meant he was taking her to get her baby, save Melody herself and then forever be a true force to be reckoned with! Instead, they kill her, deny Amy the hard won wisdom of those 30 years (the Dr and Rory both retain the benefit of their experiences) and she is returned to damsel status since apparently an independent, strong, fully actualized less physically attractive Amy is of no value.

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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ken said:
quote:
what is strange is the way Ariel seems to want the reassurance that we all share the same rather sour views about Amy and Rory. Well we don't! They are good! And most of the recent programs are good!
I don't see Ariel as looking for reassurance, merely giving people a chance to air their views. As others have said, it is good that we have different views, but the majority opinion here on the Ship is very different from the view I find when I talk to people. Up and down the country I have friends with decided views on Doctor Who. We are not all of one mind, and can have vociferous disagrements on the merits of particular episodes and ideas. However, the people I speak to are all very disappointed with this series and the last, and all find the main pair weak. (One friend was even considering not watching the second half of this season, but I bet he has.)

Views here on the Ship are much kinder than those I have encountered elsewhere. Perhaps this is a Christian website after all?

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Penny S
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# 14768

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Art dunce's point had not occurred to me, but is capable of being quite disturbing. That two different male authors have this attitude to a woman functioning as a full hero could be seen as veiled misogyny. We might add River Song's giving up all her future lives to save the Doctor. (Though River had to lose her regenerations because we already knew she would die.)
I suspect it is more a situation of recognising a potential plot embarrassment, where there are too many autonomous active figures, and it is only chance that they are women, because the companions are nearly always women. But then Adric and K9 had to go for the same reason. Too clever by half. Too many independent plot strands.

Penny

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Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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You don't often see "Adric" and "clever" in the same sentence...

But on to the current stories. As for the recent Amy-centric story, I confess that I felt a wave of nostalgia seeing the white robots in a white room. Very "Mind Robber"-ish. I am sure it was intentional. The rest of the episode was, well, okay. My trouble is that I am just not impressed with Karen Gillan's abilities as an actress. I can never shake the impression that she IS acting--just reading words that somebody else wrote for her. By contrast, Arthur Darvill seems so natural. Much like with Matt, I forget that they are acting. I love scenes where the two of them interact. There is chemistry between Matt and Arthur. There is no chemistry between Karen and Matt or Karen and Arthur. IMHO.

But, seriously, who, when told to "push the button" (a) doesn't ask for clarification and (b) pushes the RED button instead of the GREEN button?? Actually, it would have been more interesting if this planet's culture used green as a danger symbol, and then have Amy assume that pushing green was right because that (in her culture) was "safe." That was a missed opportunity. Instead, this planet went with green-safe, red-danger and genius Amy, given the choice, presses danger without hesitation.

But let's get back to the whole story arc thing. So, courtesy of the Justice people, now the Doctor knows his "historic" death date and place: that bit of information that River kept telling us he can't know because it would implode the universe or something way back in the Impossible Astronaut episode? Except, as I pointed out way back then, we KNOW the Doctor found out about it, because he knew it when he set up the events at the lake. Now, at least,we know how he knew. And he probably recognizes the location as being where he met the gang as the result of a mysterious note left for him in his own handwriting. So he probably now knows that they they know about it, too. Which means he can now take action to handle it (although it apparently is one of those random "fixed" points in time).

So, any bets? Maybe he does change this "fixed" point which causes a huge temporal implosion which (drum roll please) results in the TARDIS blowing up last season, destroying the Universe.

Which we already fixed last season. In other words, the Doctor already dealt with the consequences of the action that he has not yet done, so he now knows that he CAN do the action because he already fixed the consequences.

All he has to do is find some way to funnel the temporal implosion from early 1960s America to "Amy's Time" when the TARDIS blew up. Because, after all, the show is All About Amy. As the voiceover intro to the broadcasts on BBC America keeps telling us: The show is all about Amy and her imaginary friend, the Doctor, who joins her as she has adventures through time and space...

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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Something that I thought of while reading the Circus poll thread: the whole arc thing that seems to annoy people. Honestly, I like it, for one simple reason: what happens in one episode actually means something in later ones. Take Star Trek, for instance. You know that Picard isn't going to be killed; that'd be the end of the show! Who gets around this quite nicely with the whole regeneration/ditching companions for the time being thing—point to it. The value of arcs expands on this. I remember in one episode the crew of the Enterprise comes across a Borg that they name Hugh, which leads to all sorts of moral and philosophical questions when Hugh starts becoming self-aware—you know, un-Borg-like. Of course, you know that this can't actually matter; the way the show works, each episode is distinct from all the others, and, except for the occasional meaningless callback (I was *really* surprised to hear Hugh referenced in another episode later), nothing that happens in one episode affects what happens in any other. It's as if the Enterprise is running around, saving planets, resolving conflicts, and not making a whit of difference in the world. Who's story arcs, however loose, help resolve this problem. If something happens in one episode, you know that the characters might just remember it, rather than developing rather odd amnesia in the intervening week. Suddenly, things cease to be isolated events and instead become a whole; characters can grow over time in meaningful ways, as there's a distinct temporal sequence of events that affect them and their world.

[ 13. September 2011, 07:13: Message edited by: AristonAstuanax ]

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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GreyFace
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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
And if my miserable existence evaporated because a happier one came into being - wey hay! What is the problem?

Actually, I think Old Amy was right on this one to an extent. One day I'm going to develop my doubtless heretical and unoriginal theological thought that since our identities are tied up with our actual histories, to ask why God didn't make us better (or prevent our falling as far) is to say to God loves not us but an alternative reality version of us. Old Amy and Reboot Amy could have been two different people who shared a common past.

But that's a bit off topic. The interesting pseudo-science question of this episode for me is this. Young Amy and Old Amy can't exist in the same reality because that would be a paradox, apparently. The paradox hasn't been resolved by Rory's choice, though. The reason Young Amy's travelling with Rory and the Doctor in the TARDIS now rather than being stuck in the Kindness Facility, is that Old Amy who actually can't have ever existed, rescued her. So, somebody remind me why Old Amy had to die?

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Dafyd
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quote:
Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
the whole arc thing that seems to annoy people. Honestly, I like it, for one simple reason: what happens in one episode actually means something in later ones.

I'm not sure. Old Who has occasions on which the events of former episodes are mentioned in earlier ones - the TARDIS crew meet Colonel Lethbridge-Stewart, and then when they come back to 20th century Earth he's a Brigadier, and then when the Doctor returns he's in charge of UNIT.
Arcs are different: arcs are when parts of different adventures tie up into one big story. That's difficult for a program like Doctor Who because the Doctor's a nomad through time and space. The whole format of the program is that the Doctor shows up, pokes about a bit, and then leaves. The only way to have an arc is to have time-travelling opponents. And I'm not a fan of the current timeline's implications that everybody with enough money or connections will have access to time travel in the future.

The closest Who has come to having genuine arcs are The Dalek's Master Plan and The Chase, which are basically both arcs involving the TARDIS crew being pursued by Daleks.
I think Series Five and the current ones are the closest in new Who. The first four seasons don't really have arcs, just a lot of foreshadowing of the series finale.

[ 13. September 2011, 10:07: Message edited by: Dafyd ]

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Schroedinger's cat

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AristonAstuanax - interesting comment. The one Star Trek I enjoyed - apart from the original - was Voyager, partly because there was a degree of development, and the event of the past sometimes did impact the present. There was a sense of cause and effect. And that had one massive story arc across the entire programme.

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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
The closest Who has come to having genuine arcs are The Dalek's Master Plan and The Chase, which are basically both arcs involving the TARDIS crew being pursued by Daleks.

What? No mention of Key to Time???? For Shame! Between Romana's introduction and Douglas Adams, the first half (before they reduced Romana to a DiD/Screamer) was quite delicious, even if K-9 was one of the best actors on the set . . .

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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The Great Gumby

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# 10989

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quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
But, seriously, who, when told to "push the button" (a) doesn't ask for clarification and (b) pushes the RED button instead of the GREEN button??


Yes, the set-up was clunky beyond belief. In fact, it was thoroughly ridiculous, but seeing that the meat of the story was so good, I'll choose to ignore that. This should not be taken as invalidating my perfectly reasonable quibbles over episodes (past, present or future) that I don't like. [Biased]
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
So he probably now knows that they they know about it, too. Which means he can now take action to handle it (although it apparently is one of those random "fixed" points in time).

So, any bets? Maybe he does change this "fixed" point which causes a huge temporal implosion which (drum roll please) results in the TARDIS blowing up last season, destroying the Universe.

Well, there was an interesting throwaway this week, quite apart from the idea that the future can be changed if you know about it (ORLY?) where the Doctor said to Rory "If anyone can defeat predestiny, it's your wife". To me, that looks like a big flashing arrow saying "HINT", but it may come to nothing.

I'd also like to think that Old Amy survived somehow and escaped, even if I can't see how. But I doubt it's relevant, because we don't know any other old women with reddish hair who really don't like the Doctor, do we? *whistles*

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The Revolutionist
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My spoiler-free* review of the next episode, The God Complex is up at Impossible Podcasts. As the title hints, it's a bit more theological than your average Doctor Who episode. I really liked it - I imagine it'll make for some interesting discussion on here after Saturday night.

* Usual caveats apply - if you're one of those people who turns off the TV before the "Next Time" trailer, then you might not want to read it, but most people won't consider anything given away.

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Penny S
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"Adric" and "clever" were not in the same sentence. I don't know whart it is about supposedly super intelligent fictional teenage boys but there was Wesley Crusher in STNG. Infuriating.

Penny

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
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quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
But I doubt it's relevant, because we don't know any other old women with reddish hair who really don't like the Doctor, do we? *whistles*

WHOA!

Probably not, but I like the way you think.

[ 14. September 2011, 05:36: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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dorothea
Goodwife and low church mystic
# 4398

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S. Cat wrote:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:

quote:Originally posted by Penny S:
...a sequence of frequent appalling death experiences followed by appalling resurrections...

Not dissimilar from John Barrowman's experience of Saturday evening tv appearances in general.

[Killing me]

Me too. I always amazes me how the cool Captain ends up singing dreadful songs and being nice to the general public on telly. Still my mum loves John Barrowman as John Barrowman and I guess there's worse ways to earn a living.

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Protestant head? Catholic Heart?

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Chelley

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David Mitchell on Doctor Who

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"I love old things, they make me feel sad."
"What's good about sad?"
"It's happy for deep people!"

Sally Sparrow to Kathy - Doctor Who

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The Great Gumby

Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
But I doubt it's relevant, because we don't know any other old women with reddish hair who really don't like the Doctor, do we? *whistles*

WHOA!

Probably not, but I like the way you think.

Almost certainly not, and I'm actually playing a bit of a wind-up - apart from the accent, she had close enough contact with "our" Amy to break the timeworn Blinovitch Limitation Effect to shreds if it was the case, and Moffat knows his Who-lore. OTOH, established rules have been broken out of simple expediency before, and it would be a pretty cool twist.

Wasn't it Joss Whedon who said you should always make your stories internally consistent unless you have a really cool idea? [Cool]

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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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The "old Amy Pond" in this week's episode annoyed me because they hadn't bothered to make her hands old - and her hands featured a great deal.

Hands age a person more than faces do imo.

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Schroedinger's cat

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Incidentally, I also enjoy Eureka on the SiFi channel, which also does wierd science ( far wackier than DW ), they normally have a major disaster each episode, which will be sorted out and there will be no lasting effects. They do retain storylines across the episodes, with reasonable success.

It's fine if it is entertaining and manages to hang on to making some form of sense within an episode. It is entertainment, and as long as it is not too outrageous, or too damaging to the plot, it doesn't have to make complete sense. It has to be good to watch, which it is.

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Hedgehog

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I enjoy Eureka as well, although I do sometimes wish I could convince the writers that Fargo is Not An Interesting Character, and having dozens of stories based on the plot "Fargo does something stupid" is not well calculated to keep viewers watching.

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Pheonix

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
The "old Amy Pond" in this week's episode annoyed me because they hadn't bothered to make her hands old - and her hands featured a great deal.

Hands age a person more than faces do imo.

Also 36 years older her hair would almost certainly be silver/grey and not still flame red...
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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
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Greyface:
quote:
Young Amy and Old Amy can't exist in the same reality because that would be a paradox, apparently.
The two Amys were certainly causing the poor old Tardis to have a fit. However, since she can cope with several incarnations of the Doctor at the same time I'm wondering why Amy caused her so much trouble.

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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art dunce
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quote:
Greyface posted:
Young Amy and Old Amy can't exist in the same reality because that would be a paradox, apparently.


But we saw adult Amy and child Amy hanging out in a museum together chatting it up just last season.

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Ego is not your amigo.

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The Great Gumby

Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989

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So, Torchwood finally stumbles to a merciful end tonight. Will it be satisfying? Will it explain anything at all? Will it turn out that "The Blessing", aka Enormous Planetary Vagina, just wants Jack to shag it?

And will Torchwood ever recover from the trainwreck that was Miracle Day?

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Paul.
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# 37

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quote:
Originally posted by Pheonix:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
The "old Amy Pond" in this week's episode annoyed me because they hadn't bothered to make her hands old - and her hands featured a great deal.

Hands age a person more than faces do imo.

Also 36 years older her hair would almost certainly be silver/grey and not still flame red...
She built her own sonic screwdriver I expect she could whip up some hair dye.
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Dafyd
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quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
quote:
Greyface posted:
Young Amy and Old Amy can't exist in the same reality because that would be a paradox, apparently.


But we saw adult Amy and child Amy hanging out in a museum together chatting it up just last season.
The universe had bigger paradoxes than two Amys to worry about just then. And they weren't on the TARDIS together.
Amy who's been on the planet thirty years and current Amy did exist together - they just couldn't both exist on the TARDIS. While there have been people who've been on the TARDIS in different versions at the same time (the Doctor, the Brigadier), they've all been part of stable time loops. While thirty year old Amy and current Amy's history are incompatible.

[ 15. September 2011, 15:35: Message edited by: Dafyd ]

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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Just got round to seeing the Amy waiting episode. And I think it is one of the scariest Dr Whos ever. Was begging Rory to open the door.

If the scriptwriters have got half a plot-arc to rub between them then the ending has to come back in some way in a future episode. Either by return of character(s) presumed dead or else by its effect onm the relationships of the survivors. They can't have something as emotionally heavy as that happen and then drop it. Well I suppose they can but they ought not to.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37

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quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
So, Torchwood finally stumbles to a merciful end tonight.


Yep.

quote:
Will it be satisfying?


No.

quote:
Will it explain anything at all?


Anything? Yes. Will that explanation be satisfying? See above.

quote:
Will it turn out that "The Blessing", aka Enormous Planetary Vagina, just wants Jack to shag it?
Everything in the Torchwood universe wants Jack to shag it.

quote:
And will Torchwood ever recover from the trainwreck that was Miracle Day?
From a story point of view? or from a "no-one's ever going to commission another series" way?

Probably not.

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