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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Doctor Who: Silence will fall - the Doctor Who thread returns
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I did not like the setting of "The day Thou gavest"
Penny
Yes, that was odd. Do they really sing it like that in Wales or was it a mistake born of ignorance? I would have thought that at least one person in the large number of cast or production team would be a church goer and could point it out.
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Posts: 3149 | From: Bottom right hand corner of the UK | Registered: Mar 2002
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Rory "doesn't believe in anything" annoyed me too. Everyone believes in something. Everyone has faith in something. It is a necessary part of existence. It would have been better to have said that Rory has not yet been thrown onto his faith. Not so much lazy, IMO, but misunderstanding of faith.
And I love the David Walliams Quitter-race. Yes it was a little bit xenophobic - it might not go down so well in Italy - but the idea of a race who has survived longer than most by simply giving in to all and any invaders is cool. The Doc does tell him that it is a positive survival characteristic, so it is seen in a positive light.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
quote:
but the idea of a race who has survived longer than most by simply giving in to all and any invaders is cool
And un-original. Catch 22 has such a character in it (Italian iirc), who taunts Yossarian. I liked the character and the jokes but it is not a new one.
All the best, Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by Eigon:
but then the Doctor needs to be alone for a while now.
He may need to be, but I expect to see Rory and Amy in the next episode (and the next series).....
Spoilers
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Hopefully that's a big enough gap. Arthur Darvill let slip in an interview in the Evening Standard that Rory wasn't coming back next season. ( ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif) if that's true). Smith and Gillan are back for next season though.
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
Have now watched Fenric. It was interesting, especially if it's considered a high point of the old series. More on that later perhaps when I have time.
Fish vampires and Nicholas Parsons.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Catch 22 has such a character in it (Italian iirc), who taunts Yossarian.
Well of course. Yossarian is Armenian. Almost everyone conquers Armenia, or part of Aremia, sooner or later. Some countries conquer it quite often - the Persians seem to have done it at least four timess. Hittites, Hurrians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Cimmerians (really - imagine the indignity of having once been conqured by a fictional tribe), Skythians, Medes, Phrygians, Persians, Macedonians, Pontics, Romans, Parthians, Romans, Persians (calles Marzipans in this context. Honest guv), Romans, Persians, Arabs, Turks, Crusaders, Mongols, Tatars, Ottomans, Persians, Russians...
I have an atlas of ancient and mediaeval history which misses a small independent Armenian territory off the map sometime in the early middle ages. In the notes apologising for this it says "history hasn't been fair to Armenia for over three thousand years and its too late to start now"
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
quote:
but the idea of a race who has survived longer than most by simply giving in to all and any invaders is cool
And un-original. Catch 22 has such a character in it (Italian iirc), who taunts Yossarian. I liked the character and the jokes but it is not a new one.
All the best, Pyx_e
If you are going to be non-original - and most of Who is derivative to an greater or lesser extent - there are few better places to draw from.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I assumed it was an American version of the Day Thou Gavest, not Welsh. (At least it hadn't been de-Thee and Thou'd.)
Penny
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
OK - once again I'm going against the flow here, and saying I really enjoyed this. A thoughtful, intelligent, well executed episode. Really liked all the supporting characters, especially Rita, and on this occassion all the main ones convinced me too. It would be great if Amy bowed out at this point, but I doubt that is going to happen.
In addition, I liked all the faith references, and loved the fact that we were given an intelligent and positive Muslim. To my mind, this was easily the best episode of the second half, and is only beaten by "The Doctor's Wife" in the the first.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Mrs Shrew
Ship's Mother
# 8635
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Posted
Hmmm.. I didn't so much object to that episode as just not really see the point. I wasn't scared by any of it (apart from jumping a bit at the weeping angels), it just didn't feel exciting.
I want to like the premise but again it just failed to make me care.
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"The goal of life is not to make other people in your own image, it is to understand that they, too, are in God's image" (Orfeo)
Was "mummyfrances".
Posts: 703 | From: York, England | Registered: Oct 2004
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doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498
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Posted
quote:
Gill H wrote:Faith itself wasn't seen as a bad thing - only faith in things which apparently didn't deserve it. So I guess you could say idolatry? (Although that would mean placing Rita's faith in the same category as believing in conspiracy theories or luck, which would be a big stretch.)
I agree with Shchroedinger's cat that it is about blind (and misled) faith - Rita fits through her indifference to hell, because she *knows* she's lived a good life - does she now? Or is Allah entitled an opinion in that?
I hasten to add, I loved her character, her sense of humour, and her sardonic acknowledgement of islamophobia. She'd have made a fun companion.
quote:
So what's with the 'Rory using the past tense' thing then?
According to a friend of mine, that may be a foreshadowing of his leaving the Tardis. I think this goes with the Doctor saying "Amy Williams", acknowledging that she belongs with Rory now* (before dopping them both off).
*as far as Amy will ever "belong" to anyone...
quote:
Balaam wrote:I expect to see Rory and Amy in the next episode
I don't, not yet. For reasons of filming schedules, there is usually one episode in which the Doctor does not feature much (last week's), and one in which the companions don't. This is still outstanding, and last year, it was the one with James Corden. I think next week we will see the Doctor genuinely trying to move on, before everyone gets reunited by all kinds of timey-wimey inevitabilities for the finale.
quote:
Penny S wrote:
Probably just a software thing, but the holographic hotel undid itself in the same way as the tesselator shapeshifting vigilantebot did.
I'm sure that was intentional.
Re the monster: I liked it that Nimon was name-checked, even though, in our local fan gatherings, that particluar epidode usually gets watched with the help of quantities of alcohol ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
So, The Curse of Fenric.
I'm afraid I found it a bit of a mess. An interesting mess but a mess still. It had some good ideas - like the faith thing - in fact it probably had too many ideas. People have talked about how the modern episodes feel rushed because you only have 50 mins to tell the story as opposed to 4x25mins. Well this really felt rushed because there was just so much in it. I started to list all the different plot strands but then deleted that when the list got too long.
And it didn't help that the writer seemed to think the best way to engage the viewer was to throw as much unexplained stuff at them as possible and leave it as late as possible to finally explain. If you think "timey-wimey" stuff is hard to follow this would give you migraines.
It was also clunky in a way that had nothing to do with rubber suits and 1980s special effects - the acting was very variable (McCoy - good with the one-liners, bad at monologues), the dialogue odd (the most surreal chat-up scene ever), some scenes feel compressed for convenience (Ace befriending too evacuees in about 10 seconds and fewer words), implausible/comical action scenes (monsters conveniently disentangle themselves from grappling their victims so they can be shot at).
On the other hand it did have something. I wonder what the relative budgets between then and now would be if adjusted for inflation. The production values of the modern series are more polished but I couldn't help be struck by the fact that here there was a lot of action filmed outside, on beaches and cliffs, and on location in a real church. Apart from the scenes at the Lake way back at the beginning of this series most of the recent episodes feel like they've been shot on (very impressive) sets and don't have the same sense of real, airy, space.
Also, despite what I said about the plot I quite liked that they expected you to keep up.
But overall I didn't think it was an example of an earlier 'golden age' of Who, I thought it had just as many weaknesses as modern episodes and for my tastes was less entertaining. Obviously YMMV.
Now, tonight I watched Battlefield (I read Ken's post after I'd already watched Fenric) and that was much better IMO. I really enjoyed it. It had witty dialogue and fun characters, a good central idea and proper story-telling (i.e. the plot built suspense but wasn't so convoluted as to have you go WTF? every 2mins). Most of all it just felt like a more confident, smoother execution than Fenric.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
I am really not sure what to think of this episode. I'm not sure I agree that it was saying anything about faith other than that faith exists. Where does this theory that it was critical of "unworthy" faiths come from? I mean, the monster (as I understand it) fed on faith. So the monster does not want to destroy the people's faith--in fact, it starves to death (really, really, really fast) when Amy's faith is broken.
So the rooms, while scary, were designed to force people to fall back on their deepest faith so that the monster could feed. I am not sure how that turns into them all saying "Praise him" because why would it make them switch their faiths? But let that bit pass. It was a catch phrase needed to show that the person was doomed.
Also, I am not sure why feeding off one's faith causes somebody to die. But let that bit pass.
And I don't get how the monster species ever survived if even a momentary interruption in its food supply causes it to die. But let that bit pass.
But this gets us to the other points. As others have mentioned, Amy has not exactly been a poster child for faith in the Doctor. In fact, in an earlier episode when she was kidnaped and was telling her captors that "he" was coming for her and would cause them a world of grief--wasn't she talking about Rory?
And, as has been mentioned, it is hard to swallow that the Doctor's quiet little chat was enough to break her faith. Well, normally it wouldn't, but then her faith in him seems a little shallow anyway (see prior paragraph) so maybe it would. But Sylvester McCoy's Doctor was considerably harsher and contemptuous when he was breaking Ace's faith in him.
But I do think the reference to "Amy Williams" was meant as part of shaking her faith. Somehow. Not sure how. Let that bit pass.
When we went to the holodeck at the end, what happened to the bodies of all the others? Did the not-seen guards clear out the corpses? Or were they always projections of the holodeck to force Amy into greater faith? After all, we were told that it was Amy's faith that brought them there, so was the whole thing a sham to get her to believe more? Because, as has been demonstrated time after time, the show is All About Amy!
And I don't get the bit about Rory using the past tense. If it is a foreshadow that he is leaving...why use the past tense at THAT point? Even if he had already decided to leave, it made no sense to speak in the past tense then.
But Rory's manner seemed quite a bit different throughout the episode. Sometimes very somber and at other times kind of chipper (such as when he was presented with his dream car). Almost like there were two of him. I wonder if this is sort of a reprise of last season when we saw the Doctor with and without his coat--and at the end it was explained that it was Doctors from different points in time. Maybe that dialog was with a time-travelling Rory who (for some reason I can't fathom) came back to appear in that scene. Then, for him, it WAS the past tense. It had already happened, what was there for him to be scared of?
So, like I said, I am not sure what to think of this episode. Was it just a good concept that was poorly thought out? Or does it seem half-baked because it IS only half-baked and we won't appreciate what it was doing until we see a later episode that explains what was REALLY going on?
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
Could Amy and Rory really be gone? Please let it be true. I hope the next companion(s) create a completely different dynamic. I really thought the Amelia character was great and had so much potential but what they've chosen to do with (and to) Amy is rotten.
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
I wonder if this sudden attack of humility on the Doctor's part is fulfilling River's words about being higher than ever and then falling so low (from Demons' Run). We know the Silurian lady said he was at his highest on that day, because not a drop of blood had been spilled. Maybe this is the 'low' part coming.
If so, fine, but we've been here before. The whole 'Doctor thinks he's God, finds out he isn't' arc was played out with Tennant, from the Floaty Tinkerbell Jesus Doctor incident through to Waters of Mars and the Ood. OK, new regeneration, but did we really need to go there again so soon?
Having said that - the "I'm just a madman in a box" line was beautifully done.
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
The idea of Amy having this sort of faith in the Doctor was a bit surprising to be honest. She certainly wasn't like that when she first met him as an adult. Admittedly Rory was always more clear-eyed (remember his big rant in Venice about what the Doctor does to those who travel with him).
But I was rather put out by the idea that Rory 'doesn't believe in anything'. Really? More like the writer couldn't find time to think up a room for him. I guess his worst fear would be Amy choosing the Doctor over him.
Yes, this all echoes my own thoughts. I can't really settle on a firm conclusion about this episode. The idea was good, suspense was built, but I felt it was rather weak overall and Amy's "faith" in the Doctor was plucked out of nowhere and destroyed with ludicrous ease. As with some earlier episodes, it might be rescued if some of the ideas it raises pay off at the end of the series.
quote:
However, the 'worst fears' thing was already covered with the Dreamlord episode (which makes me think the Doctor saw himself in his room - after all, it was Room 11). So I'm glad that wasn't the main focus.
I'm glad someone else noticed the door number.
quote:
So what's with the 'Rory using the past tense' thing then? More muddled time-streams?
Possibly. I'm beginning to find it quite frustrating that in a series which is throwing so many hints about future plot twists all over the place, there seem to be an equal number of simple scriptwriting clangers, with no simple way of telling them apart. This may be significant, or it may not. The same could be said of Rory's apparent lack of belief in anything.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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The Revolutionist
Shipmate
# 4578
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Posted
By the way, the editor of Doctor Who Magazine has [url= http://tomspilsbury.moonfruit.com/home/4554491282/Let's-Kill-This-Myth/195123]compiled the ratings figures from the last few years[/url], in an attempt to dispel the myth that the show's ratings are falling.
The average consolidated ratings year on year:
2005 - 8.68 million
2006 - 8.72 million
2007 - 8.89 million
2008 - 10.20 million
2009 ("Gap year")
2010 - 9.85 million
2011 - 9.77 million (average so far)
[ 21. September 2011, 13:49: Message edited by: The Revolutionist ]
Posts: 1296 | From: London | Registered: May 2003
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
One thing I've found confusing is River's speech about 'her doctor' in SITL is exactly the doctor he became; even snapping his fingers at the Tardis. Then, in AGMGTW she scolds him for becoming all of the things she claimed to admire in her first episode. When she was lecturing the doctor my son asked why she was saying those things to him since he had become exactly what she wanted him to be.
[ 21. September 2011, 14:48: Message edited by: art dunce ]
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
One thing I've found confusing is River's speech about 'her doctor' in SITL is exactly the doctor he became; even snapping his fingers at the Tardis. Then, in AGMGTW she scolds him for becoming all of the things she claimed to admire in her first episode. When she was lecturing the doctor my son asked why she was saying those things to him since he had become exactly what she wanted him to be.
But remember that we are seeing River's life in sort-of reverse. SITL was at the end of her life, when she admired those qualities. AGMGTW was earlier in her life, when she perhaps did not value them as much.
I say sort-of reverse because, assuming we and the Doctor see River again, she will have to be older than when we last saw her (just after she regenerated into the River we know). And that will mean that all her prior comments (last season and this) about how she and the Doctor are meeting in reverse order (so, e.g., that his first kiss with her is her last kiss with him) are pretty much garbage because they are not meeting in such a simple reverse-linear fashion.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
Did anyone else think the fish in the bowl was a metaphor for Christians?
I guess I don't see why she'd admire those qualities at the end of her life and want a doctor who fills people with fear and then 'swaggers' back to his beloved Tardis and snaps his fingers at her.
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
I guess I don't see why she'd admire those qualities at the end of her life and want a doctor who fills people with fear and then 'swaggers' back to his beloved Tardis and snaps his fingers at her.
Yeah, that's a fair point. I suspect the problem is that, when the River Song character was introduced in SITL it was intended as a one-off and they really had not thought out a back-story for her. But Alex Kingston was so good, that they wanted to bring her back and, to do that, they needed to build an interesting back story that was not obvious from the comments in SITL--because where would be the surprise if she fit perfectly with what you'd expect from SITL? This led, inevitably, to a character that is inconsistent, as you point out.
But if I allow myself to go much further down that line, I will (once again) start my rant about how TV writers just aren't smart enough to properly handle temporal paradox stories and should just stop trying to do them. But I suspect everybody is bored with me doing that.
May it never be said that I don't respect the feelings of my fellow Shipmates.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
On reflection, a couple of things jumped out at me that I noticed about this episode but didn't take in at the time. First, near the beginning, someone turned the music back on - who? When I first watched it, I saw it as part of the general haunted hotel thing, but I'm not sure because of a few other things I'm still processing.
The Doctor pulled a Rubik's Cube from his jacket at the beginning. I'm pretty sure (but haven't gone back to check yet) that we later saw it completed. But we know from Night Terrors that he "never could do those things". The Doctor lies? Maybe. Which leads me on to the unusual camera angles and quickfire cuts between different scenes - atmospheric, homage to various horror genres, or concealing something in plain sight? I have my suspicions, but need to go back and watch some earlier episodes again before I can be sure.
Amy saw the paper in the corridor, thought it was important enough to pick it up, then forgot about it for what seemed like ages. Was that Amy being ditzy, scriptwriting convenience (but why not have the paper found where they were?), or something else?
And I think we can rule out my theory about Rory's past tense slip being a blooper, because of course it was commented on at the time, which means it's there for a reason, which means... dunno. But he apparently didn't have any fears or beliefs (although the Fire Exit may have been "his" door), and some of his conversations with Amy were very odd on both sides. It's almost as if he's a ghost. Maybe he's bleeding through from another reality/timestream, or only kept alive by Amy willing him to live, or something. Although the baby might take some explaining.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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GreyFace
Shipmate
# 4682
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
And that will mean that all her prior comments (last season and this) about how she and the Doctor are meeting in reverse order (so, e.g., that his first kiss with her is her last kiss with him) are pretty much garbage because they are not meeting in such a simple reverse-linear fashion.
Well, yes but we already knew that from them comparing their diaries - if they really were meeting in reverse order then there wouldn't be common entries and whenever River asked if he'd done Incident X yet, the Doctor would smugly yell "Plainly not, since you have!!".
I'm not sure all the scriptwriters have figured this out, though.
Posts: 5748 | From: North East England | Registered: Jul 2003
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sophs
Sardonic Angel
# 2296
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Posted
Well, that was bloody amazing.
Posts: 5407 | From: searching saharas of sorrow | Registered: Feb 2002
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swllwmzn
Shipmate
# 12945
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Posted
Wasn't it?! I'm sure there will be all sorts of holes to be picked in it but I loved it. I was quite emotional.. Matt Smith is now definitely my favourite Doctor since Patrick Troughton (revealing my age).
Posts: 96 | From: Budleigh Babberton | Registered: Aug 2007
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Rock Pig
Shipmate
# 14503
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Posted
Really enjoyed this one. Who spotted the cameo from the TW3 Girl/Our Maurice's girlfriend/Nurse Gladys Emannuel/Auntie Mable* (delete according to age)?
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If the neighbours ain't complainin', you ain't playin' it loud enough.
Posts: 148 | From: Old York | Registered: Jan 2009
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
The cameo with Amy and Rory was moving. I do hope that however they're bringing back Amy next season it doesn't undo the last couple of episodes.
Matt Smith continues to switch brilliantly between comic eccentricity and understated emotion.
At least Gareth Roberts had the decency to send up the power of love solves everything resolution after he'd used it.
The bit at the end with River Song felt just a bit tacked on and just slightly too drawn out.
There were bits that I felt didn't quite come together and bits that I got really caught up in and I'm not entirely sure which was which.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
When I used to write little plays for school, I had the idea that repetition of patterns (as in folk stories) was a good idea. I have gone off this completely. One more plot solved by Dad/son bonding, and without even any change in outcome is getting a bit, well, repetitive. One more buried/abandoned spacecraft/enemy trying to rebuild itself/take over the Earth.
Not exciting.
Penny
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
There were bits that I felt didn't quite come together and bits that I got really caught up in and I'm not entirely sure which was which.
Exactly.
It was good, but not amazing. It traded quite a lot on the likeability of Smith and Corden. Shame Daisy Haggard wasn't in it more.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
Anybody else a bit ticked they could only write 4/5th of an episode?
That was a long link sequence.
I like the Dad thing...its not done in TV much. Most Dad's are treated as idiots.
I suppose they had to use the Cybermen but it did seem a little forced.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by swllwmzn:
Wasn't it?! I'm sure there will be all sorts of holes to be picked in it but I loved it. I was quite emotional.. Matt Smith is now definitely my favourite Doctor since Patrick Troughton (revealing my age).
Developing a little crush, I'll admit. The scene with Makeup Counter Lady was note perfect.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Oh and USA Who fans-- how did you like that episode of The Nerdist after? ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Very short on actual plot and originality with a lot of padding. A quite predictable episode (as Penny S says we've had these themes before) where they packed the excitement into the last five minutes with River Song and the eyepatch lady, but no real surprises there either.
On the plus side, it showed that Matt Smith is starting to settle into the part and come across as a more convincing and rather older Doctor than he really is. The baby was a star.
I'm intrigued by the name of the perfume Amy was advertising on the poster: "petrichor" is the smell of the earth after long-awaited rain, but it comes from the Greek for "stone" and "the blood of the gods" ("petros" and "ichor"). "Petrichon" must surely have been based on that. Nice one.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
I want a Cybermat! Just the thing for answering the door to cold callers.
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Posts: 3149 | From: Bottom right hand corner of the UK | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Of course the irony of the “anti-faith” argument is that he did save them but only by killing part of himself. All a bit humble/emptying/ Easter-like.
I was watching the latest ep a second time and at the bit where the doctor shouts, "I believe in you! I believe in all of you!" I flashed on what you said above.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I thought it was OK, and quite fun, which is what I am after really. And some excitement and plot as an extra.
I like the fact that Matt Smith is playing up the non-human aspect of the Doctor, and his social ineptness. That is funny, and gives him that sense of strangeness that some of the doctors have not had.
And I think there are some plot lines that will need to be drawn together somehow, although exactly how I don't know. The end bit was the series arc link, which just didn't fit into the episode, so was irritating.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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mrs whibley
Shipmate
# 4798
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by GreyFace:
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
And that will mean that all her prior comments (last season and this) about how she and the Doctor are meeting in reverse order (so, e.g., that his first kiss with her is her last kiss with him) are pretty much garbage because they are not meeting in such a simple reverse-linear fashion.
Well, yes but we already knew that from them comparing their diaries - if they really were meeting in reverse order then there wouldn't be common entries and whenever River asked if he'd done Incident X yet, the Doctor would smugly yell "Plainly not, since you have!!".
I'm not sure all the scriptwriters have figured this out, though.
Since the Doctor is a time-traveller, his time-line can't be expected to be linear in either direction with respect to anyone else's, except his companions, surely? Unless River is travelling in the exact opposite trajectory, which she could only really manage by asking him when and where he was last, and then going there! Hmmmm, perhaps that is exactly what she is doing ...
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I long for a faith that is gloriously treacherous - Mike Yaconelli
Posts: 942 | From: North Lincolnshire | Registered: Aug 2003
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by GreyFace:
I'm not sure all the scriptwriters have figured this out, though.
Moffat's the only scriptwriter who has written episodes with River Song. (Unless you count yesterday's episode, but I suspect that last bit was Moffat as well, or brief flashbacks.)
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Very short on actual plot and originality with a lot of padding.
I think the padding was the point of the episode and the plot was really just an excuse.
quote:
The baby was a star.
Most convincing child actor they've had this series.
quote:
I'm intrigued by the name of the perfume Amy was advertising on the poster: "petrichor" is the smell of the earth after long-awaited rain, but it comes from the Greek for "stone" and "the blood of the gods" ("petros" and "ichor"). "Petrichon" must surely have been based on that.
I got the Doctor's Wife reference, but is there any more to it than that?
BTW I'm glad it's finally confirmed that the kissogram stuff was filling time and not Amy's choice of career.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
The perfume name - I am sure that I have seen that name elsewhere. Or something sufficiently similar to be relevant. But cannot remember where.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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angelica37
Shipmate
# 8478
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Posted
I really liked this episode, having had so many people not being saved by the doctor gave some added suspense and a real sense that Craig might not make it. I thought the cyberhead closing over his face was a proper scary Doctor Who moment and enjoyed the dialogue with baby 'Stormageddon' as a nice bit of humour.
Posts: 1351 | From: Suffolk | Registered: Sep 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
The perfume name - I am sure that I have seen that name elsewhere.
You mean, elsewhere than The Doctor's Wife?
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
I'm intrigued by the name of the perfume Amy was advertising on the poster: "petrichor" is the smell of the earth after long-awaited rain, but it comes from the Greek for "stone" and "the blood of the gods" ("petros" and "ichor"). "Petrichon" must surely have been based on that.
I got the Doctor's Wife reference, but is there any more to it than that?
Not sure. What was the Doctor's Wife reference? I was just thinking that possibly the "blood of the gods" thing might be a reference to the Doctor's forthcoming assassination, but that might be stretching it a bit.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Not sure about last night's episode. Found it very hard to get over the stupidity of taking a baby into dangerous situations. And I found Boring Chap dull when the Doctor stayed with him before; he was just as Boring now, if not more so (can't even remember his name). Smith's emotion was OK, but seemed to have come out of nowhere. With one day left to live I could understand him wanting to go off and see Exeter, or whatever the conjunction was, but to visit Boring Chap? Somehow I don't think so. Hmmm, I'm talking myself into being unimpressed with it, aren't I?
Will there be an episode next week, does anyone know? Or do we have to wait till Christmas now, our knuckles white with tension, to discover if the Doctor really does die?
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
Petrochor was one of the things Amy and Rory had to imagine in order to get into the old Tardis console room. The Tardis, in Idris, told them what it was to them when she first ran up to them.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I like the fact that Matt Smith is playing up the non-human aspect of the Doctor, and his social ineptness. That is funny, and gives him that sense of strangeness that some of the doctors have not had.
Bingo. And in doing so, he seems able to convey a grasping toward connection with the human race that is really moving. If only actual humans appreciated their own humanity as much as the Doctor does.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
In short I am currently thinking (whilst loving the whole series) that this in one of the best theological studies of "how to over come evil without becoming evil oneself" I have ever come across.
At its simplest the desire to not be part of his friends dying and being hurt balanced against the great number he saves by taking part in the sacrifice (of his loyal followers). But he is never the sacrifice, it always those whom he loves. Hence he moves towards his death almost willingly.
For myself I think he is being selfish and should allow his follwers to die by the bucket load to save planet loads of people ....... easy for me to say because I am not in tha position. Just one a bit like it, as we all are.
All the best, Pyx_e.
[ 26. September 2011, 08:31: Message edited by: Pyx_e ]
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Lola
Ship's kink
# 627
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Catch 22 has such a character in it (Italian iirc), who taunts Yossarian.
Well of course. Yossarian is Armenian. Almost everyone conquers Armenia, or part of Aremia, sooner or later. Some countries conquer it quite often - the Persians seem to have done it at least four timess. Hittites, Hurrians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Cimmerians (really - imagine the indignity of having once been conqured by a fictional tribe), Skythians, Medes, Phrygians, Persians, Macedonians, Pontics, Romans, Parthians, Romans, Persians (calles Marzipans in this context. Honest guv), Romans, Persians, Arabs, Turks, Crusaders, Mongols, Tatars, Ottomans, Persians, Russians...
I have an atlas of ancient and mediaeval history which misses a small independent Armenian territory off the map sometime in the early middle ages. In the notes apologising for this it says "history hasn't been fair to Armenia for over three thousand years and its too late to start now"
Except the old Italian man in the brothel in Catch 22 isn't taunting Yossarian (who is the survivor), he is taunting Nately - the all-American youth (who along with almost every other character is not).
Posts: 951 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2001
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