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» Ship of Fools   » Ship's Locker   » Limbo   » Doctor Who: Silence will fall - the Doctor Who thread returns (Page 4)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Doctor Who: Silence will fall - the Doctor Who thread returns
Dafyd
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quote:
Originally posted by M.:
This made me & Macarius go back and watch Remembrance, which I agree is great. But I'd forgotten that I find Ace even more annoying than Amy!

Hah! Ace is the best companion ever. If ane think otherwise I discard him uterly.

Peri was annoying. Mel was even more annoying. I'm told that the Seventh Doctor with Mel was bit disposable, but the Seventh Doctor with Ace was great. (Although even then the scripts were a bit variable.)

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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M.
Ship's Spare Part
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Eheu! Thus am I utterly discarded.

But I still find Ace annoying (I'm not that keen on Peri, Mel or Adric either. I don't like many people much, do I?)

I do like River, though. I would love to be that ballsy.

M.

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Taliesin
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my fav quote:

Captain: I'm confused.

Doctor: It's a big club, we should get t-shirts made.


furthermore, for those of you cross at the TARDIS' reliability, it disappeared this week for no disernable reason. Happier now?

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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Well that was a lot better than last week! [Yipee]

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:

Peri was annoying. Mel was even more annoying. I'm told that the Seventh Doctor with Mel was bit disposable, but the Seventh Doctor with Ace was great. (Although even then the scripts were a bit variable.)

The McCoy/Aldred partnership was probably my favourite Who since the Troughton period.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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busyknitter
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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Well that was a lot better than last week! [Yipee]

I thought it was worse, if anything.

My problem is I just don't seem to care about any of the current characters. Except River, in fact I'm only hanging on to find out who that particular plotline turns out.

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Surfing Madness
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quote:
Originally posted by busyknitter:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Well that was a lot better than last week! [Yipee]

I thought it was worse, if anything.

My problem is I just don't seem to care about any of the current characters. Except River, in fact I'm only hanging on to find out who that particular plotline turns out.

I'm with you Ken, the last two weeks i've not really got in to it, that today I put my dinner on while it was on and had to make a mad dash to the kitchen to save it! I usually do prefer the ones based in history, but still think that actual storyline was better.

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I now blog about all my crafting! http://inspiredbybroadway.blogspot.co.uk

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The Great Gumby

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Very good. Nice set-up, with enough mystery to keep you guessing, and a classic Who approach of adapting and subverting a well-known legend/tradition in a sci-fi light.

If I have a complaint, it's that the resolution was slightly silly, and I didn't understand why the Doctor, Amy and the captain weren't strapped into those intensive care beds like everyone else, but it was enough fun that I wasn't too bothered.

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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

A letter to my son about death

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Ariel
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quote:
Originally posted by busyknitter:
I thought it was worse, if anything.

Yes - badly acted, and a lot of unconvincing plot.

Having said that, I quite enjoyed the way the Siren was propelled rapidly upwards like a cork out of a champagne bottle, before sinking to earth like a sort of Mary Poppins with hugely inflated skirts.

Perhaps I'm asking too much. I'm hoping next week will be better.

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tessaB
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You know sometimes you do have to remember that this is mainly for children/young people.
I mean really, pirates, black spot signifier of doom, a green glowy (really beautiful) siren who literally turns red with rage, what's not to love if you're about 10? (Oh alright or 50)

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tessaB
eating chocolate to the glory of God
Holiday cottage near Rye

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itokro
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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Perhaps I'm asking too much. I'm hoping next week will be better.

It's written by the inimitable Neil Gaiman, so it should be!
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Emma Louise

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I thought it was really really boring. [Frown]
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Dormouse

Glis glis – Ship's rodent
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I enjoyed it - maybe I prefer the simpler stories where I don't need to make connections with things I've either forgotten or didn't notice in other episodes! I liked the way we discovered the Siren wasn't a real "baddie" but like whoever, I wondered why the three of them didn't end up in hospital beds too.

And I also agree with whoever else it was who said that Karen Gillan is as annoying as Amy Pond. Quite frankly I can't see much difference between them... I'm not convinced KG is acting. She just seems to be herself. I've liked all the modern companions (although Mooning-After-the-Doctor-Rose got a tad tedious at times) but KG gets on my nerves. Actually, thinking about it, when she and Matt Smith get together on Confidential it's like a couple of giggling schoolchildren. I feel a bit sorry for Arthur Whoosit, who seems a little more sensible.

And while I quite like Matt Smith, I preferred the other two modern Doctors much, much more.

But, generally, despite my moans I'm always happy to watch Doctor Who on a Saturday evening.

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What are you doing for Lent?
40 days, 40 reflections, 40 acts of generosity. Join the #40acts challenge for #Lent and let's start a movement. www.40acts.org.uk

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
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On an overall scale, yes, pretty dull. On a Matt Smith scale, a decent episode. At least it was more or less self contained, apart from the silly woman behind the sliding door slot again. (And is it just my depraved imagination, or did anyone else wonder what a pirate crew of 5 men and 1 boy would get up to, wandering the universe with no hope of ever seeing a human female again?)

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Ariel
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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
(And is it just my depraved imagination, or did anyone else wonder what a pirate crew of 5 men and 1 boy would get up to, wandering the universe with no hope of ever seeing a human female again?)

funny you should say that. I'd wondered the same thing, and concluded that they'd be spending their time reading books, discovering the wonders of Oriental art, practising Judo, cooking interesting seafood meals, and making sure the boy didn't miss out on his schoolwork. You have to do something constructive with your time while you're becalmed.
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Macrina
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I am afraid I was utterly distracted by the terrible CPR. TERRIBLE! Which probably indicates I was slightly turned off by the plot/resolution of the episode which seemed to lack something.
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swllwmzn
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quote:
Originally posted by Macrina:
I am afraid I was utterly distracted by the terrible CPR. TERRIBLE! Which probably indicates I was slightly turned off by the plot/resolution of the episode which seemed to lack something.

Yes! It was appalling - and after Rory told Amy it had to be her because she would never give up.. How long did she carry on her ridiculous attempt? 30 seconds?

Didn't spoil it for me though - loved the rest of it.

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Tubbs

Miss Congeniality
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[Biased]

Tubbs

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
(And is it just my depraved imagination, or did anyone else wonder what a pirate crew of 5 men and 1 boy would get up to, wandering the universe with no hope of ever seeing a human female again?)

The pirates obviously had. Or the scriptwriters. They were going to make Rory and the Doctor walk the plank but keep Amy.

And the Doctor's universe seems to contain a remarkably large number of humans - as well as creatures that look vaguely human but aren't - like the Doctor.

Also one imagines that they would work on persuading the automated medical cabinet that some quirks of human physiology require the virtual doctor to attend to them in certain ways that the dead crew might have not needed. For the good of their health.

At least this one HAD a plot, and one that mostly obeyed the Iron Laws of Plot. The double-parter just didn't. It was deus ex machina all the way down.

[ 09. May 2011, 14:37: Message edited by: ken ]

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Matt Black

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At the risk of sounding like a complete toady, thanks Tubbs for re-opening this. Some virtual H&As' Day chocs on their way.

I enjoyed this one much more than the two-part opener: it had a followable plot, bit of action, good characters, palpable threat, SFX, a happy ending and only one intrusion by the season story arc. Call me two-dimensional but that's the sort of thing I like.

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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)

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Avila
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BBC 4's Classic Who is not available on iplayer... and I missed tonights first part!!

[Waterworks]

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http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/

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The Rogue
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The five men and a boy were originally a lot more men (The Doctor commented on this when he arrived) but they had been taken by the siren. I don't know how the boy escaped detection for so long with that cough and I don't know how the captain immediately recognised his son who he hadn't seen for so long.

I love plot holes which somehow make Doctor Who whereas in other programmes they detract. Is this because the program has a long history of them? Or is it because there is always a possibility that they get resolved later in the series? Or perhaps it's because fans can speculate on how they could be resolved and this usually brings up some pretty imaginative theories. Or maybe because we can look clever when we are the first to spot them [Biased]

As someone has already said this was more of a children's pirate story because I understand that real pirates were far more ruthless than the romantic images that this story was based on and mutiny didn't happen because the captain would reward any non-loyal thoughts in the crew with death.

The CPR session at the end seemed unreal and it wasn't a surprise that Rory survived.

Did I enjoy it? Dr Who would have to be really awful for me to be disappointed so I guess I did. I liked having a break from the story arc (mostly) but there certainly have been better.

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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?

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dorothea
Goodwife and low church mystic
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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Perhaps I'm asking too much. I'm hoping next week will be better.
(From Itokro)

It's written by the inimitable Neil Gaiman, so it should be!

Oooh!

J

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Protestant head? Catholic Heart?

http://joansbitsandpieces.blogspot.com/

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itokro
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Question - how many times has Rory died, nearly-died, or appeared to be dead now? I'm counting 5 (he drowned this week, got shot by Canton last week, appeared to have died in the Blitz when he was a plastic centurion, got shot by Silurians AND erased from history, and got killed by those creepy eyestalks inside the old people in the dream episode). The suspense doesn't really work when you're so used to him coming back.
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The Revolutionist
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The Curse of the Dull Plot - sorry, Black Spot - wasn't a patch on the opening two-parter.

It had all the right ingredients, but didn't quite work for me. I think the main problem was that the pirates weren't interesting or piratey enough, so I didn't care about them. Pirates should be devious, dashing and double-crossing, not moping about whether they're a good dad. If they'd had a bit more personality and had been more suspicious of the Doctor and co it might have held my interest.

By the way, my podcast commentary for the first episode is now online over at Impossible Podcasts. You can also find it on iTunes by searching for it.

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art dunce
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Rory is actually Kenny

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Ego is not your amigo.

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tessaB
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Oh My God, they've killed Rory
[Killing me]

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tessaB
eating chocolate to the glory of God
Holiday cottage near Rye

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M.
Ship's Spare Part
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I'm beginning to think it all must be, hideously, some sort of dream. It's just not quite right,is it? The Doctor seems just too scatty - and would he abandon the Tardis? The crown didn't look like a real crown to me. Others have pointed out that the kiss of life was all wrong. When did Amy learn to fight with a cutlass? And eye-patch lady, of course.

I do hope it's more imaginative than that! I'm sure it must be. Mustn't it?

TANGENT - has anyone else been watching The Hand of Fear? I've never seen this one before. I was laughing at Sara-Jane's dungarees until I remembered a pair of pink candy-striped dungarees not unlike them that I had and wore with a matching anorak-style jacket...

M.

[ 11. May 2011, 19:57: Message edited by: M. ]

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St Everild
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Boring. I couldn't stay awakezzzzzzzzzzzz
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Dafyd
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quote:
Originally posted by M.:
The Doctor seems just too scatty - and would he abandon the Tardis? The crown didn't look like a real crown to me. Others have pointed out that the kiss of life was all wrong. When did Amy learn to fight with a cutlass? And eye-patch lady, of course.

It's not the first time that the Doctor has been forcibly separated from the Tardis to stop everyone from escaping in a sensible fashion. It's true he didn't seem especially bothered about it.
I agree about the kiss of life. TVTropes has CPR stand for Clean, Pretty, Reliable; which it is only in tv land.
The fight with a cutlass was justified though. Amy was winning because none of the pirates wanted to risk getting scratched.
Yes - on the whole, not an amazing episode. I read an online review suggesting that one of the Doctor's off-hand comments might be half-human level controversial, but I didn't spot anything?
And, yes, I spotted the twist as soon as they found the missing crewmembers. Really, the Doctor's supposed to be clever. He should be keeping up with the audience.

quote:
TANGENT - has anyone else been watching The Hand of Fear?
I saw the last two episodes. The first two weren't on iPlayer, with no warning. Grr...
Somehow, even compared to a comic episode like this week's pirates, it's taking itself less seriously. Also, I think it was the best performance I've seen by Tom Baker as the Doctor.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
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Ken:
quote:
At least this one HAD a plot, and one that mostly obeyed the Iron Laws of Plot. The double-parter just didn't. It was deus ex machina all the way down.
Agree completly. This wasn't a great episode, but it hung together reasonablly well. And that faint praise puts it well ahead of the first two episodes.

(BTW my comment about five men and a boy wasn't directed at the start of the episode, but the end. I wondered what sort of happy ending it was to put such a small number of men together, roaming the universe, rather than returning them to Earth somehow. Still, it fitted in with the "Boys Own" atmosphere, where such awkward questions are never allowed to intrude!)

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Gill H

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Agree re CPR. We were shouting 'get a seal on his nose!'

Plus, CPR doesn't work like that, but it does on telly, so hey...

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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.

- Lyda Rose

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Pyx_e

Quixotic Tilter
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Still loving it and considering not reading this thread anymore, honest to god guys it's a kids show. This thread is like reading the Hobbit and complaining it aint War and Peace.

Pyx_eeee Wix_eeee.

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It is better to be Kind than right.

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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433

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quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
This thread is like reading the Hobbit and complaining it aint War and Peace.

Is it not? Bugger.

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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/

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The Exegesis Fairy
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quote:
Agree re CPR. We were shouting 'get a seal on his nose!'

Plus, CPR doesn't work like that, but it does on telly, so hey...

Ah, not just me then. I quite enjoyed the episode. (Well, it had shirtless Rory in it, so y'know.)

The thing is, I keep getting jolted out of my suspension of disbelief with the new series. It happened with Ten (Tinkerbell Crystal Dragon Jesus Ten at the end of S3, anyone?) but not every episode.

Tis weird.

And now I'm wondering if the whole thing is just Amy's elaborate dream world and we're heading for another reset button.

[sings]I've got a theory
That it's a demon
A dancing demom, no something isn't right there

I've got a theory
Some kid is dreamin'
And we're all stuck inside this wacky Broadway nightmare...[/sing]

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I can only please one person a day.
Today is not your day.
Tomorrow doesn't look good either.

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Adeodatus
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I really enjoyed The Curse of the Black Spot. A nice, unassuming, more or less stand-alone story. True, I think the plot had more holes than half a ton of Swiss cheese, but it was fun.

I get the impression (mostly from other websites) that the like/dislike battle lines are being drawn up between those who like long story arcs, and those who like continuity-light stories like this one.

As to the CPR, I just thought, "Oh look - Amy's doing television CPR!" It's never done correctly on television and in films - partly, I suspect, because you don't want one of your actors left with broken ribs and internal bleeding. Real CPR is violent. (And hardly ever works anyway.)

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

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Ariel
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# 58

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quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Still loving it and considering not reading this thread anymore, honest to god guys it's a kids show. This thread is like reading the Hobbit and complaining it aint War and Peace.

I'll say this, the Hobbit may be a kids' book but it was a lot better constructed. Doctor Who these days has become a fast-paced action show which doesn't seem to care that much for plot construction or details, it's about energy and excitement and they know people are going to watch it anyway. I’m not saying it has to be perfectly worked out in every respect, I just wish some of their plot ideas weren't so wildly far-fetched and the holes so obvious.

"With one bound, Jack was free."

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Penny S
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# 14768

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Comparing with "The Hand of Fear" was interesting. 4 episodes to tell a story which would now be told in one. The amount of time spent following Sarah-Jane around the power station would simply not happen now.
Interesting that the regeneration of Eldrad required a ring which preserved the genetic pattern. And I think I spotted some other ideas seen more recently. (But the Silence has eradicated what they were.)

Penny

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Comparing with "The Hand of Fear" was interesting. 4 episodes to tell a story which would now be told in one.

But each of those episodes was about half the length of the modern episodes. So it's effectively equivalent to a 2 parter.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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GreyFace
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# 4682

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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Real CPR is violent. (And hardly ever works anyway.)

And... I can't believe the TARDIS doesn't have a defibrillator. The contemporary sonic screwdriver should be able to manage that much too, surely.

[ 12. May 2011, 16:04: Message edited by: GreyFace ]

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Jahlove
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Can a Pond turn into a River? [Ultra confused]

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Snags
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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
I read an online review suggesting that one of the Doctor's off-hand comments might be half-human level controversial, but I didn't spot anything?

One thing that stood out to me like a sore thumb at the time was the Doctor referring to Earth as "our planet" rather than "their planet" or "your planet" (can't remember the exact context). If one's going to get fannish, one can explain it away with all kinds of sleight of hand, but it sounded like iffy script writing to me rather than either a portentous moment or a cover-story-for-the-context thing.

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Schroedinger's cat

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The CPR was particularly poor. Not least because she stopped far too soon, and he recovered significantly after she had stopped.

Yes CPR rarely works. And when it does, it only works by keeping the body alive until more intensive help arrives. But that is not good TV. It is a known TV metaphor for "urgent and immediate life saving treatment" - a version of deus ex machina.

And it is not a kids program. It is a family program, that should appeal as entertainment to a range of people. Something that it achieves. More Harry Potter than The Hobbit or War and Peace.

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Matt Black

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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
I really enjoyed The Curse of the Black Spot. A nice, unassuming, more or less stand-alone story. True, I think the plot had more holes than half a ton of Swiss cheese, but it was fun.

I get the impression (mostly from other websites) that the like/dislike battle lines are being drawn up between those who like long story arcs, and those who like continuity-light stories like this one.


You're about right I think, and obviously count me in the second camp. It's not so much that I have problems following the story arc (although I admit that that gets more difficult as I get older) but more that I'm getting bored with the concept.

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Jen.

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quote:
Originally posted by Jahlove:
Can a Pond turn into a River? [Ultra confused]

Ohhh. That's a clever idea.

J

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The Revolutionist
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I didn't dislike The Curse of the Black Spot because it was a stand-alone episode. Many of my favourite Doctor Who episodes are stand-alones, or I like them in spite of any arc elements. I did enjoy the ongoing story in the opening two-parter, but I'd find it tedious every week.

I just didn't think this episode was that good - it was derivative, with characters I didn't care about disappearing through plot holes, and basically a missed opportunity for an exciting, fun pirate story. Pirates should be swashbuckling and devious, not moping around worrying about their families - or if a pirate is a tortured soul, you've got to give me a lot more reason to care than they did here.

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Penny S
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Moffatt has said that his youngest son could work out what was happening - don't know how old. He has also said that it is demanding viewing.

I don't like having to be glued to the screen all the time with no time to think or dwell on things, or blink. And I don't like having to remember all the little details - not just eyepatch lady, who is obviously significant. Not everyone is an obsessive fan who can refer back to minor details in obscure episodes in the original series. Not everyone has the time to devote to watching it - even with the frequent repeats, people who go away on holiday, or have relatives in hospital, or have to cope with a child who needs help, or any of the other things involved in "having a life", may miss vital "loose ends", and it looks as though nothing now is ever a loose end.

I don't think it is for the author to "demand" unbroken attention from his audience. It is for him to entice, to seduce, to make them want to pay attention. Not to say - if you look away for an instant, you will miss the vital clue I have inserted almost subliminally.

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mrs whibley
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I disagree.
I think the series is perfectly enjoyable if you miss the added details and the subtle clues. I do, most of the time!
In a way, those who miss these bits experience the adventures more in the way that the central characters do (to whom, one supposes, the future is a closed book and every twist is a total surprise). The point to me is not that the programmes demand total attention, but that they reward it.

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Ariel
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# 58

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I don't remember seeing the woman with the eyepatch in the last episode. I must have blinked and missed it.

I like the teasers but if he's going to construct fine details, I want a script that lives up to it.

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Dafyd
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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I don't remember seeing the woman with the eyepatch in the last episode. I must have blinked and missed it.

It was when they were all holed up sleeping in the cabin that Amy saw her.

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