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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Doctor Who: Silence will fall - the Doctor Who thread returns
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
Incidentally, I think I'm glad that the scene in the last episode where the Amy, the Pirate, and the Doctor find Rory, the boy, and the Tardis came before this episode. (Apparently at one stage they'd have been shown in the other order.) The Doctor finding the Tardis worked better if it didn't suggest a change in the Doctor's relationship as a result of this story.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
The "stealing" thing goes back, I believe, to the very early stories, where the doctor does "borrow" a tardis - this one. I think this was why he always had problems controlling it.
The idea of the tardis being the one who did the stealing - or tempting - is just an interesting and fun twist, based on the sentience of the tardis that the new series has "discovered".
Traditionally, the TARDIS was unpredictable - the doctor nicked it from a place where broken/tempermental TARDIS' went to be fixed. He was always considered a rebel - a criminal? by the other time lords and that's why they marooned him on Earth for the whole of his 3rd incarnation.
Prior to that the TARDIS was operable, but couldn't navigate - the basis of all his adventures in the beginning was the idea that he never knew where he was going to end up.
Presumably whoever released him from Earth fixed the TARDIS too - I missed that series.
I loved yesterday's episode too, but missed large chunks and will have to watch the repeat later this week.
Originally, the Doctor said (in An Unearthly Child, the very first episode) that he and his granddaughter, Susan, were "wanderers in the fourth dimension ... exiles", and that they were cut off from their own world. I think it was Susan who expressed a hope that they might someday return.
The First Doctor also sometimes alluded to having invented various bits of the TARDIS, and Susan claimed to have made up the name. The ship was unreliable, but the Doctor claimed that if he knew where he was starting from, and had time to calculate the journey, he could control it.
Much later, in The War Games, we heard about the Time Lords, and the Doctor admitted to having taken the TARDIS because he was bored with the Time Lords' only ever observing the universe, not getting involved in it. They exiled him to Earth, but weren't above occasionally using him for "missions".
Robert Holmes later reinvented the Time Lords as scheming politicians, ostensibly aloof, but secretly interfering in the affairs of other worlds through the CIA - the Celestial Intervention Agency. It was hinted that the Doctor was connected with the Agency.
And broadly, that was all we ever got to know from the classic tv series. There were suggestions in the final couple of seasons that the Doctor was in fact a far more significant figure in Time Lord history than we'd previously suspected. This was the "Cartmel Master Plan", script editor Andrew Cartmel's attempt to reintroduce some "mystery" into the character by only ever hinting at other, deeper aspects of his story.
Almost everything else about the Doctor's family, his reasons for leaving Gallifrey, and his "relationship" with the TARDIS, comes from other sources, which are more or less off my radar.
[ 16. May 2011, 13:27: Message edited by: Adeodatus ]
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lots of Yay:
Possibly stupid question, but why couldn't the captain administer tv-CPR to the boy instead of just sitting there twiddling his thumbs all the way to the other side of the universe?
Because the boy had typhoid; he hadn't simply drowned like Rory. (Although it does beg the question as to whether the captain could take him somewhere where his typhoid could be cured.)
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
... whether the captain could take him somewhere where his typhoid could be cured.
Assuming he still has an immune system, if he lives through his first month with typhoid he should recover fully. He might be dangerous to others though. Rory ought to know that, and the Doctor might as well.
My guess is that these pirates are being deposited in the Plot Bank for future withdrawl when an idea is needed - ideally in a year or two from now. Along with the Doctor's Daughter. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
I do find it interesting that these last two seasons Dr. Who seems to have discovered sexual passion. Where the Saint Rose and Martha arcs had a lot about unrequited love (the tin dog for Rose, Rose for the Doctor, Martha for the Doctor, Sarah Jane for the Doctor, Rose's mum for her husband, the Doctor for Madame Pompadour), this one has a lot about having a passionate love affair.
Through the eyes of a 10 year old, the bunk bed joke is hilarious. "Mummies and Daddies don't sleep in bunk beds, silly Doctor!" And the Doctor, who knows darn well what is going on there, is playing that tension, while recognizing in River Song his future of having such a passionate relationship, and discovering an intellectually passionate relationship with the Tardis (Amy's "Did you wish really hard?" line was priceless). If the physical representation had been able to stick around, they would have been snogging before Amy and Rory go to their bunk beds.
Which might be is what is annoying lots of people about Pond and River. Where prior companions have reacted on an emotional level with the Doctor, they react on a physical level to him - River want to do more then travel the world with him and hold hands - she wants to kiss him as they do it.
Amy loves Rory - physically and emotionally; if anything this last episode nailed that love the most with her utter despair at him being dead. (I almost shouted "Oh my God, they killed Rory!") All three of them know she is physically attracted to the Doctor but has chosen Rory. That's a different tension, and in my estimation a better one to watch then the Saint Rose and Martha tensions.
Unrequited love is too flat for me. I prefer passion. Which is why I like River Song. She gives a darn. She flies into things fast and hard and is just so darn good at what she does. I think a few people are annoyed at that amount of perfection; strange as its a physical representation of the Doctor's mental abilities. Which is why he gets on her nerves, and why I suspect she will get on his nerves as they grow closer together.
***
As for this episode, a good hour of fun. Typical Gaiman stuff about relationships and caring about people moving from hope to darkness to discovery that brings energy into fixing things, with a resigned "you made me destroy you" near the end followed by a familiar domestic discussion. Sounds like almost every single Sandman story arc. Enjoyable.
And, Rory is now definatly not the tin dog.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
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Twangist
Shipmate
# 16208
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Posted
Did anyone else find Uncle reminisant of Richard O'Brien's Riff Raff?
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twangist:
Did anyone else find Uncle reminisant of Richard O'Brien's Riff Raff?
Not sure about that, but he and Aunty were very Neil Gaiman characters. Weird and yet somehow mundane at the same time. For instance, I read one of his short stories the other day in which an old lady finds the Holy Grail in an Oxfam shop and buys it. She spends the rest of the story being pestered by a knight in shining armour who's on a quest. It's been said he writes fairy stories for grownups, and I think that's a pretty good summing-up.
I watched The Doctor's Wife again last night. I needed cheering up, and sure enough I smiled through the whole thing. It was so good in every respect. I loved Idris's line that goes something like - "Are all people like this - So much bigger on the inside?"
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Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
The "stealing" thing goes back, I believe, to the very early stories, where the doctor does "borrow" a tardis - this one. I think this was why he always had problems controlling it.
The idea of the tardis being the one who did the stealing - or tempting - is just an interesting and fun twist, based on the sentience of the tardis that the new series has "discovered".
Traditionally, the TARDIS was unpredictable - the doctor nicked it from a place where broken/tempermental TARDIS' went to be fixed. He was always considered a rebel - a criminal? by the other time lords and that's why they marooned him on Earth for the whole of his 3rd incarnation.
Prior to that the TARDIS was operable, but couldn't navigate - the basis of all his adventures in the beginning was the idea that he never knew where he was going to end up.
Presumably whoever released him from Earth fixed the TARDIS too - I missed that series.
I walk among masters ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif) and watch my step accordingly, but IIRC the Third Doctor was only marooned on Earth until all three of him ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif) were enlisted to help defeat Omega in order to save the Time Lords ('The Three Doctors', unsurprisingly). Handily, that happened around the 10th anniversary of the first episode ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
After that, Doctor Three was able to use the Tardis as before his forced regeneration, otherwise he couldn't have gone to the Planet of the Spiders where he was fatally injured so as to regenerate into the Fourth Doctor. Not sure if the Time Lords fixed the dodgy circuitry, though - we saw on 'Confidential' almost all the later incarnations complaining about the Tardis' unreliability.
During 'Confidential', Neil Gaiman said that incarnating the Tardis was 'the Doctor's dream come true - and that of almost every man watching'. I would say that any Earth-bound equivalent - my car or boat becoming a real person, especially a woman - would be a very short relationship in which I would be unlikely to survive!
PS Schroedinger's Cat - I can only assume that you are responsible for Amy's pregnancy, as she appears to be both pregnant and not pregnant at the same time? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ 17. May 2011, 12:31: Message edited by: Rev per Minute ]
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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor
At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
(Incidentally, I'm sure it's possible to read this story as a parable about incarnation, but also about John's assertion that "perfect love casts out fear". I'm just not quite sure how it hangs together yet ... it's not as clear as Dalek being a retelling of the story of the harrowing of Hell.)
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rev per Minute:
PS Schroedinger's Cat - I can only assume that you are responsible for Amy's pregnancy, as she appears to be both pregnant and not pregnant at the same time?
I should be so lucky......
Adeodatus - it is interesting to see it as an incarnation story, with all of the oddities of the divine in the human. The comments ( like "Are all humans like this, bigger on the inside" ) all have some important insight into who we are - we are bigger on the inside than on the outside. And something about an incarnated God being the only really suitable companion for the Doctor.
However, I think there is a danger of taking this too far.....
Taliesin and Adeodatus - I bow to your greater knowledge, but I think the basic principle that the Doctor "borrowed" the Tardis has its origins very early. Which was at core, what I was trying to get at.
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badger@thesett
Shipmate
# 16422
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Posted
and to think I enjoyed watching the Doctor with Sarah Jane, the Brigader, Betsy and for a while K9 it was just simple fun TV with a bit of fear thrown in to watch after Saturday tea...
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
Youtube is your friend if you want to go back to that. Did that a few weeks ago watching the Brigadier in his eye patch.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rev per Minute:
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
The "stealing" thing goes back, I believe, to the very early stories, where the doctor does "borrow" a tardis - this one. I think this was why he always had problems controlling it.
The idea of the tardis being the one who did the stealing - or tempting - is just an interesting and fun twist, based on the sentience of the tardis that the new series has "discovered".
Traditionally, the TARDIS was unpredictable - the doctor nicked it from a place where broken/tempermental TARDIS' went to be fixed. He was always considered a rebel - a criminal? by the other time lords and that's why they marooned him on Earth for the whole of his 3rd incarnation.
Prior to that the TARDIS was operable, but couldn't navigate - the basis of all his adventures in the beginning was the idea that he never knew where he was going to end up.
Presumably whoever released him from Earth fixed the TARDIS too - I missed that series.
I walk among masters and watch my step accordingly, but IIRC the Third Doctor was only marooned on Earth until all three of him were enlisted to help defeat Omega in order to save the Time Lords ('The Three Doctors', unsurprisingly). Handily, that happened around the 10th anniversary of the first episode
After that, Doctor Three was able to use the Tardis as before his forced regeneration, otherwise he couldn't have gone to the Planet of the Spiders where he was fatally injured so as to regenerate into the Fourth Doctor. Not sure if the Time Lords fixed the dodgy circuitry, though - we saw on 'Confidential' almost all the later incarnations complaining about the Tardis' unreliability.
Yes, Rev, your memory of the Doctor's exile to Earth ending on the tenth anniversary is accurate.
As for the Doctor's ability to control the TARDIS, along with the potential for broken bits to be fixed, as the Doctor gets older, he seems to have better control. The First Doctor had almost no control, although he claimed he did (actually, they ALL claimed they did). The Second was not much better. The Third, after his exile, was a bit better, but did have trouble. The Fourth Doctor became even better (especially getting "rather good at these short hops"), to the point where, to evade the Black Guardian, he had to fit a Randomiser so that he wouldn't be able to control where the TARDIS went. The Fifth just didn't seem to bother with getting it right. The Sixth and Seventh both seemed to choose their destinations pretty well with only the occasional mistake. Especially the Seventh.
In short, the older the Doctor gets, the more experienced he gets at controlling the TARDIS. From that perspective, it follows logically that the more recent Doctors would have almost complete control.
By the way, on the "TARDIS sentience" thing, that has been hinted at since at least the Fourth Doctor (where he noted that the TARDIS seemed to like Leela). And, if one could bear to watch the TV Movie, there was a comment there that the TARDIS really liked the Asian child.
So no accounting for taste.
And, although my memory is very very hazy on this, I think the idea of TARDIS sentience was an idea frequently used in the "New Adventure" novels that were being written (and over-written) while we waited for proper televised Who to come back.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
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badger@thesett
Shipmate
# 16422
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Posted
thought the reason the TARDIS was perpetually a police box was due to it being broken as it should be a cameleon blending into the background of where it landed
in the UK we have the radio adaptations on Radio 4 extra and the iplayer at the moment.
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
The Colin Baker Doctor fixed the chameleon circuit temporarily at one time. Although the cybermen still recognised it and managed to break in, so it was a bit pointless. (It's not one of the most highly regarded stories, although I remember the episode I watched with interest.)
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
quote:
I walk among masters and watch my step accordingly, but IIRC the Third Doctor was only marooned on Earth until all three of him were enlisted to help defeat Omega in order to save the Time Lords ('The Three Doctors', unsurprisingly). Handily, that happened around the 10th anniversary of the first episode
well, I don't bloody know - I wasn't born when it happened on screen. I just read some books. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
/pedant/
Technically, The Three Doctors was the opening story of the tenth season. Its broadcast date was actually quite close to the ninth "birthday".
-/pedant/ (Oh, who am I kidding? I've always got "pedant" switched on!)
One thing I do know a bit about is the so-called "chameleon circuit". Mainly because I rather like police boxes - beautiful design, don't you think? I was insanely happy when Moffat reinstated the TARDIS's white window frames last year. But the best variant on the design (none of which have been an exact copy of a Metropolitan police box) was in the Peter Cushing movies.
Anyhoo, back to the chameleon circuit. It got stuck while the TARDIS was spending some time in a London junkyard, though why the TARDIS though a significant piece of police "kit" would look inconspicuous in a junikyard has never been explained. When the TARDIS left the junkyard for prehistoric Earth, the Doctor was irritated and Susan was surprised that it hadn't changed.
After that, I don't think much was ever made of it, until the Fourth Doctor suspected he was being pursued by the Master, and decided that looking conspicuous might be a bad idea (Logopolis). His attempt to get the Logopolitans to fix it nearly resulted in the end of the Universe.
As Dafyd said, the Sixth Doctor, in one of his tedious manic upswings, fixed it and in Attack of the Cybermen the TARDIS appeared in several guises before settling back into the police box.
The Ninth Doctor said he just liked the police box.
There's always been something a bit odd about the Doctor's relationship with the TARDIS. Borrowed, stolen, invented ... many people suspect he's never told us the full story.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
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Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
There's always been something a bit odd about the Doctor's relationship with the TARDIS. Borrowed, stolen, invented ... many people suspect he's never told us the full story.
Really??? You do surprise me!!
/Sarcasm off/
Oi, I said /Sarcasm off/!
Bloody Sarcasm circuit's stuck! Damn!
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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor
At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken
Posts: 2696 | From: my desk (if I can find the keyboard under this mess) | Registered: May 2001
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badger@thesett
Shipmate
# 16422
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Posted
I bow to your vastly superior knowledge
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
By the way, on the "TARDIS sentience" thing, that has been hinted at since at least the Fourth Doctor ...
Since the third or fourth ever story, The Edge of Destruction back in 1964. NOt that I can remember it at all... but going by what it says ofn various websites, when things get weird inside the Tardis, Barbara speculates that the ship itself is trying to warn them of some danger. The Doctor pretends its only a machine, but in the end we know he knows it isn't.
I also have vague memories of the Tardis doing quite clever things to evade or respond to attack in various stories.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Wasn't there a suggestion that the Tardis has a sort of SEP field around it, which means that people tend not to notice it, unless they have their attention drawn to it, or it is impossible to miss.
I am thinking of the episode where the Tardis had to recharge in Cardiff.....
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badger@thesett
Shipmate
# 16422
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Posted
thought it was Douglas Adams that, a space ship behind the side screen at Lords
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
That was the real SEP field. I just thought the Tardis had something similar. meaning that most people would not notice it
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
By the way, on the "TARDIS sentience" thing, that has been hinted at since at least the Fourth Doctor ...
Since the third or fourth ever story, The Edge of Destruction back in 1964. NOt that I can remember it at all... but going by what it says ofn various websites, when things get weird inside the Tardis, Barbara speculates that the ship itself is trying to warn them of some danger. The Doctor pretends its only a machine, but in the end we know he knows it isn't.
I also have vague memories of the Tardis doing quite clever things to evade or respond to attack in various stories.
I hadn't thought about that. Yes, in that story a button had stuck that would have sent the TARDIS to the, ummm, edge of destruction. There was not a "fault" in the machine because it was acting as if one of the crew was pushing the button, so the TARDIS tried various ways to warn them. I never thought of it before, but that was a form of sentience for the TARDIS.
On the evasion thing, the Second Doctor once mentioned that the was a hazard avoidance system in the TARDIS which would operate if he remembered to switch it on. I think that was in "The Krotons." I have always interpreted that as being just a machinery function more than a sentience thing, but I can see the argument that there had to be some form of sentience for the TARDIS to know that there was a hazard to be avoided.
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's Cat:
Wasn't there a suggestion that the Tardis has a sort of SEP field around it, which means that people tend not to notice it, unless they have their attention drawn to it, or it is impossible to miss.
I don't recall a SEP field as such for the TARDIS, but that could just be my memory. The Doctor, Martha and Captain Jack used portable fields to avoid the Master, so there really is no reason why the TARDIS couldn't have one of its own.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rev per Minute:
Really??? You do surprise me!!
/Sarcasm off/
Oi, I said /Sarcasm off/!
Bloody Sarcasm circuit's stuck! Damn!
Quotes file!
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
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Eigon
Shipmate
# 4917
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Posted
I think the Cardiff thing was just people - you know, you stick a blue box down in the middle of the square and people just go "Oh, it's a blue box" and walk on.
When I worked for the Metropolitan Police, we once had to track down a real police box and ask the people responsible for it to measure it exactly, so that a Doctor Who fan could build an exact replica (it was at Hendon Police College).
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
Would any of us particularly notice a Police Box if it weren't for the Tardis?
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I think these days we probably might because they're no longer usual.
Poor old Doctor, having to make ends meet by selling coffee from the Tardis in between adventures...
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
The "stealing" thing goes back, I believe, to the very early stories, where the doctor does "borrow" a tardis - this one. I think this was why he always had problems controlling it.
The idea of the tardis being the one who did the stealing - or tempting - is just an interesting and fun twist, based on the sentience of the tardis that the new series has "discovered".
Surely it was a knowing allusion to the cliché that men think they chose their wives/girlfriends/significant others because they made the first move, but women know they made the choice, the men were just too stupid to notice it. Especially given the episode's title.
I've been away for the last week, dying to get round to watching this episode, and I wasn't disappointed. The plot was good, but nothing compared to the dialogue and how the characters developed. The Amy and Rory relationship was handled perfectly, and will hopefully keep the anti-Pond brigade quiet for a while. If I was being super-picky, the resolution seemed slightly unsatisfactory, but this was high-quality stuff, and I'll be re-watching it before long.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
OK - tonight's episode was a total nadir IMO. I lost interest halfway through and went off to do something else, came back and found the Doctor and his companions were still running frantically down dimly lit, acid-puddled corridors, panicking.
More of the same next Saturday? I may give that one a miss.
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amber.
Ship's Aspiedestra
# 11142
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Posted
Agreed - that was (for me) just odd rather than enjoyable, I think.
Posts: 5102 | From: Central South of England | Registered: Mar 2006
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Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290
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Posted
yeah - but great quote
"I should warn you, I have very wide feet"
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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain
Posts: 6477 | From: Alice's Restaurant (UK Franchise) | Registered: Sep 2005
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
I've seen worse. It's not going to be an all-time great story on current showings, but it's not yet rubbish.
The cliffhanger was not exactly a surprise based on the foregoing. And if I had to tie up the plot in ten minutes from that cliffhanger I could easily. The real question is whether it has any long term effects, or whether they use it as a tearjerker at the end of the next episode.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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ecumaniac
Ship's whipping girl
# 376
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Posted
One of the things I really liked in the BBC 8th Doctor books is where the Tardises "evolved" into a form that looks like a human (or Gallifreyan, ok!) woman. So I was quite pleased when it turned up on the tv show ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
Next on my wishlist for TV crossover is Iris Wildthyme's TARDIS which looks like a London Routemaster and is sightly smaller on the inside.
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it's a secret club for people with a knitting addiction, hiding under the cloak of BDSM - Catrine
Posts: 2901 | From: Cambridge | Registered: Jun 2001
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
I've seen worse. It's not going to be an all-time great story on current showings, but it's not yet rubbish.
The cliffhanger was not exactly a surprise based on the foregoing. And if I had to tie up the plot in ten minutes from that cliffhanger I could easily. The real question is whether it has any long term effects, or whether they use it as a tearjerker at the end of the next episode.
Agreed about the cliffhanger. It was telegraphed a long way off, but I don't feel that was a huge problem. I'm not bothered about the final predictable reveal so much as the overall situation, which is building up nicely and raises some serious sci-fi issues. Yes, there are ways of resolving it all, but some are better than others, and there's plenty of room for exploring serious questions of identity and personhood before that.
A lot will depend on how it's tied up, but regardless, I like the idea, and the way the characters are reacting to the situation.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290
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Posted
plus, one of the dopplery-dudes snuck out in a Snakey-Thing form at one point! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain
Posts: 6477 | From: Alice's Restaurant (UK Franchise) | Registered: Sep 2005
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
Yes, there are ways of resolving it all, but some are better than others, and there's plenty of room for exploring serious questions of identity and personhood before that.
The Guardian blog seems to have seen the second half and seems to like the two-parter as a whole. Although it concedes that the first part 'looks limp'.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
I found it really boring. Hope next week's is better. But I did wonder whether the Doctor's ganger has anything to do with the Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon story.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
OK, I've just read the Guardian blog linked to above and yes, it probably is too obvious.
But I didn't think 'Fear Her' was that bad.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Quote from the Guardian blog:
"But on the parameters it sets itself, this is classy, stylish and nicely unsettling.
"Graham creates a believable world and workplace in that converted monastery, which you buy into from the opening credits."
I couldn't agree less. But it would be a dull world if everyone held the same opinions.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Athrawes
Ship's parrot
# 9594
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Posted
I don't see how the Doctor's ganger could be the one in The Impossible Astronaut. He *looks* like a ganger, while the Doctor was with Rory, Amy and River before he died, and none of them noticed anything different. Oh, well, time will tell.
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Explaining why is going to need a moment, since along the way we must take in the Ancient Greeks, the study of birds, witchcraft, 19thC Vaudeville and the history of baseball. Michael Quinion.
Posts: 2966 | From: somewhere with a book shop | Registered: Jun 2005
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
I liked it. Not great, but self contained and enjoyable. After the total mess of the first few episodes this season seems to be settling down well. And I loved the old monastry - does anyone know where it is?
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells
Shipmate
# 15431
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Posted
I quite enjoyed it as well. It doesn't have the makings of a classic story, but at least it there's a bit more to it than your usual monster-of-the-week.
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was phil2357
Posts: 76 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2010
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Surfing Madness
Shipmate
# 11087
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
And I loved the old monastry - does anyone know where it is?
If you watch Dr Who confidential they tell you about the locations, it's a mixture of about 5 different places.
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I now blog about all my crafting! http://inspiredbybroadway.blogspot.co.uk
Posts: 1542 | From: searching for the jam | Registered: Feb 2006
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
It wasn't bad, but it wasn't great either. I liked the smoking boots on their own, a nice throwback to an SF cliché.
The 'ganger in snake form reminds me of something I read years ago in a fantasy book, possibly Elric's wife in Moorcock's Stormbringer. But it was so long ago I cannot be sure.
As for the the Doctor's ganger, this could be on of the worst cliffhangers of all time, as it looks as if he returned to the cauldron of white gunk to deliberately make a ganger of himself. Next episode - Doctor's 'ganger saves the day unless the plot takes a very odd twist.
What I want to know is this: are there any 'gangers of Amy or Rory out there.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Its Caerphilly Castle externally, St Donat's Castle inside the courtyard, Cardiff Castle underground, some bits of Neath Abbey with the glass CGI's back in for pretty windows, and various rooms in all those places and in the studio for interiors. And most actors were playing two characters, who sometimes talked to each other. Must be a nightmare of organisation to shoot.
That story could easily have been a 1960s Dr Who (though the set couldn't!). A Base under Siege, Science that Goes Wrong, icky monsters who might not actually be that bad, uneasy balance between seriously scary situation and the Doctor playing the fool, quite a lot of running around screaming, not that much actual bloodshed (though the first scene must have caused more nightmares than just about any other programs in the revised series other than Blink & The Empty Child.)
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I thought it was framing up to be a good episode, but has not quite made it yet. It may next week. The idea of a set of dopplegangers is good Moffat-type drama, and the questions of what makes personhood are interesting.
And Was anyone else reminded of Missie Elliot "Get Ur Freak On"? No - just me then.
Next week - lets see some quality resolution.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
Liked it. Did I read too much but were there hints that the gangers might be proto-Autons or something ("your technology is only at its basic stage" )?
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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