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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Doctor Who: Spring 2012
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Meh. I did enough gushing on the last version of this thread, but IMO, both on and off the show, he seems like an incredibly generous soul who pours that into his performance. And I'm not taking kindly to the above references to "regeneration." 12 can show up in five years or so. If ever. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
OK, now I want to him to top his own act. Laurels are not for resting on. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Yes, it was my reaction too - I thought a bit vapid - but when I watched the video clip I found myself liking her as she seemed a bit more focused.
What I'd still like to see is the Doctor with a geeky young male companion who's a complete whiz at computers and anything technological, but is completely hopeless with women. Plenty of scope for enjoyment, sympathy and a possible romantic build-up that for once wouldn't star the Doctor.
They’ve kind of done that with this regeneration of Doctor this time though. He’s regularly referred to staying at home reading sonic screwdriver and Tardis manuals whilst the other Timelords were out at dances and on the pull …
I shall wait and watch a few first before deciding whether or not the new companion is A Good Thing. Of the ones in New Who, Amy and Rory were probably the two companions I’ve liked the best. The idea of the young couple is a nod to Classic Who as well – which is a nice touch.
The idea of Rose was good – the Doctor finally falls in love and you get to see the effect on those left behind when someone goes time-travelling – but she overstayed her welcome. Martha was just “Rose-lite” and they didn’t do as much with her as they probably could have. (And did I mention her ending was silly … Martha and Ricky … where did that come from?).
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
The idea of Rose was good – the Doctor finally falls in love and you get to see the effect on those left behind when someone goes time-travelling – but she overstayed her welcome. Martha was just “Rose-lite” and they didn’t do as much with her as they probably could have. (And did I mention her ending was silly … Martha and Ricky … where did that come from?).
Yes. Rose was in keeping with NuWho, being a vehicle for a hint of sex appeal, and (especially with Ten) a rather cliched will-they-won't-they tension, but primarily she existed to have a normal life (for certain values of normal) which was being messed about, which Martha also did but not as well. That's a shame, because Martha could have been a very interesting character, but I think it was too easy to write as if Rose had never gone, and Find&Replace "Rose" for "Martha". That's why Donna - she could never be mistaken for Rose 3.0, and allowed everyone to finally move on.
I'm in the minority, but I don't really mind Amy. She's not one of the greats, and her personal story had more weight put on it than it could comfortably bear, but I think her main trouble was that Eleven simply steals the show.
Now that Moffat's got this sorted out, is there any chance of a coherent series which holds together and actually makes sense, rather than a mishmash of snappy dialogue, big explosions and unresolved teasers?
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
The only male companion who ever worked properly was Jamie. And even then it needed a continual supply of pretty young women to keep the stories going. Includng some of the best ever companions of course.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
...
Now that Moffat's got this sorted out, is there any chance of a coherent series which holds together and actually makes sense, rather than a mishmash of snappy dialogue, big explosions and unresolved teasers?
Fingers crossed for the new season!
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
The only male companion who ever worked properly was Jamie. And even then it needed a continual supply of pretty young women to keep the stories going. Includng some of the best ever companions of course.
Well there was Ian. But the Doctor / companion dynamics were very different back then.
Which leads me to ask, is anyone following
Adventures with the Wife in Space? It's great fun. A fan undertakes to watch every episode of the classic series (or listen to reconstructions when the originals aren't available) with his wife, who's spent her life studiously avoiding it. Some of her comments are priceless.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
What's wrong with snappy dialogue and big explosions?
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
The only male companion who ever worked properly was Jamie. And even then it needed a continual supply of pretty young women to keep the stories going. Includng some of the best ever companions of course.
Well there was Ian. But the Doctor / companion dynamics were very different back then.
Which leads me to ask, is anyone following
Adventures with the Wife in Space? It's great fun. A fan undertakes to watch every episode of the classic series (or listen to reconstructions when the originals aren't available) with his wife, who's spent her life studiously avoiding it. Some of her comments are priceless.
Off the top of my head ... Ian, Ben, Peter Purves, Jamie, Harry, Turlough, Adric, Mickey and Rory. The ones that worked were the ones that well written and acted. (So, definately NOT some of the '80s ones then. And the 60's ones I've only ever heard about. Harry wasn't bad, Rory is excellent and Mickey was a big of a missed opportunity. Excellent actor given bugger all to do).
Thanks for the blog recommend. I've not come across it before so will enjoy having a rummage though.
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
The only male companion who ever worked properly was Jamie. And even then it needed a continual supply of pretty young women to keep the stories going. Includng some of the best ever companions of course.
Well there was Ian. But the Doctor / companion dynamics were very different back then.
A firend of mine calls the original set-up "Team Tardis". I agree with him that it worked well andmight be worth trying again. Arguably, adding Rory was a step in that direction.
As for male companions that worked - does the Brig count as a companion? And there is Jack, of course, good in a very differnt way.
Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Which leads me to ask, is anyone following
Adventures with the Wife in Space? It's great fun. A fan undertakes to watch every episode of the classic series (or listen to reconstructions when the originals aren't available) with his wife, who's spent her life studiously avoiding it. Some of her comments are priceless.
I have been reading it! It is a fun and refreshing way to re-experience the classic stories. "They should have called the show 'Ian'."
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
Off the top of my head ... Ian, Ben, Peter Purves, Jamie, Harry, Turlough, Adric, Mickey and Rory. The ones that worked were the ones that well written and acted. (So, definately NOT some of the '80s ones then.
Captain Jack is my favourite. Turlough was great too - he was a good actor.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Adventures of the Wife in Space is wonderful! I'd never seen it before, and I'm having a hard job not laughing out loud. (Not a good idea as I am covering a class, and should be marking.) This comment on a classic moment is the latest to tickle me: quote:
The Daleks are luring the Thals to their doom with coconuts and rolls of toilet paper. What’s that all about? What are the Daleks doing with toilet paper? Sewing kits might have been a better choice of gift
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Sue: If this was a modern Doctor, you’d just assume that he was playing with them and that he had a plan up his sleeve, but with this git you really believe that he’ll sell everyone out just to get away. What a total knob.
Good luck, Robert Armin. I would have had to step out of the classroom within seconds.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
PS: Yeah, they need to bring Jack back. Aim him straight at 11, and vice versa. If either one of them carries any less than a +10 against Irresistible Charm, he's in big trouble.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Which leads me to ask, is anyone following
Adventures with the Wife in Space?
Yes. Indeed, I remember recommending it on this very board.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
I have never watched Dr. Who. If I were to start watching, what background information or tidbit of knowledge should I be aware of?
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
What's wrong with snappy dialogue and big explosions?
Nothing, as long as there's something behind it. When it's used to cover for an incoherent and nonsensical plot, I think it's a problem.
Of course, Moffat does snappy dialogue very well, and spectacular explosions and CGI are great if done well, but I want a storyline that makes sense. He can claim with some justification that his first series was a whole new start, and it appears there were all sorts of problems in production of last year's sort of twin series, but he seems to have dropped a few notches since taking over, and in general, I found Moffat's scripts last year weak in comparison with other writers, aimed at spectacle rather than story.
Just my opinion, and it appears I'm in the minority, but I think Moffat's writing Chinese Takeaway scripts, which are enjoyable enough at the time, but leave you feeling empty. I'd just like a few more three-course meals.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Gumby, lots of folk agree with you about Moffat's series. Apart from on the Ship, all I hear are complaints about the whole Matt Smith run. In fact I recently joined anther discussion board, where you say a bit about yourself and list your interests. Even though it wasn't anything to do with Sci-Fi, my listing Doctor Who as an interest brought amused derision that I could still say that in the Moffat-Smith era.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
The only male companion who ever worked properly was Jamie. And even then it needed a continual supply of pretty young women to keep the stories going. Includng some of the best ever companions of course.
Harry Sullivan?
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
I have never watched Dr. Who. If I were to start watching, what background information or tidbit of knowledge should I be aware of?
That's a tough one to answer. The show is planning on celebrating its 50th anniversary next year--there is a LOT of background information and almost everything has an exception to it!
However, the basics: The character is called simply "the Doctor" (usually). He travels through time and space (usually) in the TARDIS, which looks like a 1960s-era British police call box (rather like a blue wooden telephone booth)(usually), which is larger on the inside than the outside (usually).
It gets more complicated after that.
For comparison purposes, Star Trek foresees something of a paramilitary paradise where most everybody is happy with a captain making decisions for the group. Sort of. Doctor Who is more anarchic, with an individual who just travels around randomly (usually) and gets involved in adventures. Sort of.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
I have never watched Dr. Who. If I were to start watching, what background information or tidbit of knowledge should I be aware of?
I'm tempted to say "Nothing - just start", but it's not quite that simple. For instance, if you start watching stories from the very first, you need to know that at the beginning, the Doctor isn't a hero. He was (and sometimes still is) ethically ambiguous, and his motives are often suspect.
If you start watching shows from 1970 onwards (the third incarnation), you need to know he's of an alien race called Time Lords. After about 1976 that gets even more complicated and a whole Time Lord mythos starts building up.
You need to know that the companions come and go, sometimes quite quickly. There are a few whom he "acquires" in a way that you can only really call abduction. Most, however, come along for the ride without knowing what they're letting themselves in for. The Doctor rarely shows any remorse for putting their lives at risk.
You need to know that for a few years in the 1970s, the Doctor was exiled to Earth and worked for an organisation called UNIT, which investigated strange goings-on.
You need to know that some of the stories are total turkeys, some are among the best things ever to grace a tv screen, and most are still better than just about anything else currently on tv. Continuity, especially pre-1980s, is somewhat malleable, and you might over the years get several completely incompatible explanations of the same thing.
You need to know about the 16 years or thereabouts that the show wasn't being made in the 90s and early 00s, which divides it into "classic series" and "nuWho". You need to know that whatever the fans say, both of these are in their own way as glorious as each other.
Oh, and have a sofa to hide behind. It's a well established fact that the Daleks can't get you if you're hiding behind a sofa.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Which leads me to ask, is anyone following
Adventures with the Wife in Space?
Yes. Indeed, I remember recommending it on this very board.
Was that when I started reading it? ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif) I don't remember. If it is, thank you - it's brilliant.
(It's even better when you discover Sue is a geordie - that accent!)
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
...
Oh, and have a sofa to hide behind. It's a well established fact that the Daleks can't get you if you're hiding behind a sofa.
They can, however, do stairs.
Tubbs
[ 27. March 2012, 13:51: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Gumby, lots of folk agree with you about Moffat's series. Apart from on the Ship, all I hear are complaints about the whole Matt Smith run. In fact I recently joined anther discussion board, where you say a bit about yourself and list your interests. Even though it wasn't anything to do with Sci-Fi, my listing Doctor Who as an interest brought amused derision that I could still say that in the Moffat-Smith era.
And I'm pretty sure that if it were Star Trek, they'd have mocked you for thinking Next Generation was better than the original.
Side note for those who have never seen both: original ST is like 1970's Who, but without as many good (or even "don't fall over and die before they're shot") actors or writers.
And if I recall correctly, don't the angels send you back into the past, killing you by old age—well, unless you try to fight them? Wouldn't you expect the Doctor to go back and save his in-laws? For all this talk about Amy being annoying (seriously, did any of you see an episode with Rose in it?!?!?!), I can't see her or Rory being killed off.
As for plot holes and flash—isn't that the point of Who? Come up with technical sounding mumbo-jumbo to get yourself into a hole, lots of running about, come up with a deus ex machina to dig yourself out. The Key to Time series may be the best example of this, as well as a standard-issue MacGuffin chase: the Doctor has to go after a powerful artifact to help preserve order in the universe, but never actually uses it! Sure, he keeps the Black Guardian from getting it, but his quest wasn't just that—it was to let it be used to restore balance to the cosmos. Had he just grabbed a piece, found a really good hiding spot, then gone putting around space and time with Romana, we'd have gotten the same result. Face it: annoying companions, plot holes, and generally strange writing are nothing new in Who.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
Interesting. I can think of 3 places where I regularly discuss Who, including here. In each, I'm in a quibbling minority, but it's not exactly that I don't like or enjoy it - Matt Smith is easily one of the best Doctors ever, and some of the stories are superb. It's just that the overall effect doesn't satisfy me. There are two things that I can clearly put my finger on:
First, spending money because it's there. Moffat's invention of the Weeping Angels was pure genius, and it turned Blink into an all-time classic, despite being a filler episode. Since then, they've been over-exposed to Dalek-like levels, appeared in huge numbers, started moving and flying, and have actually become much less interesting. It's no coincidence that some of the very best episodes in recent years have been done on the cheap. Sometimes, less is more.
The other thing is dodgy, paradoxical time travel. I know you're going to say that Classic Who was worse, and you'd be right, but that was OK, because it was never (that I can remember - someone will probably correct me) essential to the plot, and you could choose to overlook it. When Nu Who starts building entire series around timey-wimey jiggery-pokery, it's staring you in the face. You can't choose to ignore it, because that's all there is. You need to get it right, and I think Moffat ended up confusing himself last year.
And now I've gone all Grumpy Old Man again. I really want to like and enjoy Doctor Who, and every so often there's an episode which reminds me of why I do, but like I said, much of the time it just leaves me feeling empty and unsatisfied. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Apart from on the Ship, all I hear are complaints about the whole Matt Smith run.
Nope. Lots and lots of sf fans and the like are into current Dr Who. Its only those mundane type who watch Hollyoaks and Emmerdale and dodgy sex shows on BBC3 who think its boring. Really ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
The only male companion who ever worked properly was Jamie. And even then it needed a continual supply of pretty young women to keep the stories going. Includng some of the best ever companions of course.
Harry Sullivan?
Portrayed as an old bore who I can hardly remember at all. Maybe because he had to share a screen with Tom Baker and Elisabeth Sladen and he (or his scripts) couldn't compete. Though the character did suffer from having come out of the mid-Pertwee period, in many ways the least good Who ever.
The competition for least good era might be late Baker II and early McCoy, and just possibly some mid-period Troughton. Though in their cases they are rescued by the later McCoy with Ace, and some of the other Troughton serials, being the best Who ever. Pertwee never got the glorious stories needed to make up for the just plain un-Whoiness of his character in the being-stuck-on-Earth period - though he did get Katy Manning who made the whole thing very watchable if you were 12 or 13 at thte time...
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
The best place to start with Doctor Who is probably Rose, Episode One Season One, of the New Series, since the first series is pretty efficient in explaining the basic concepts.
I'm not sure that there's a good place to start with the Classic Series. Probably pick a story with a good reputation and jump in. While no two Doctor Who fans agree on what the best stories are, the following are all highly regarded:
The Invasion (black and white)
The War Games (black and white)
Carnival of Monsters
Genesis of the Daleks
The Brain of Morbius
Robots of Death
Talons of Weng-Chiang
Horror of Fang Rock
City of Death
Remembrance of the Daleks
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Apart from on the Ship, all I hear are complaints about the whole Matt Smith run.
Nope. Lots and lots of sf fans and the like are into current Dr Who. Its only those mundane type who watch Hollyoaks and Emmerdale and dodgy sex shows on BBC3 who think its boring.
Ken, there are lots of people out there who disagree with you, on all number of subjects. Your recurring tactic of rubbishing anyone who thinks differently to you has got very boring. And predictable.
(BTW I've never watched Hollyoaks or Emmerdale or dodgy sex shows on BBC3.)
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Apart from on the Ship, all I hear are complaints about the whole Matt Smith run.
For a lot of people these days David Tennant is their Doctor and Russell Davies their producer/script editor in chief. It's expected of Doctor Who fandom that you slag off the era before and after your Doctor and production team.
The classic fan blogs I'm following think quite highly of the Smith era. (That's Wife in Space and TardisEruditorum.) I think it's true to say that a lot of people think it's not quite as good as it could be given the actors and the chief writer (I could do without River Song). But I don't think saying that is saying much.
[ 27. March 2012, 21:01: Message edited by: Dafyd ]
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
A firend of mine calls the original set-up "Team Tardis". I agree with him that it worked well andmight be worth trying again.
I think it worked better when they swapped Susan for Vicki.
They tried to replicate the dynamic with Davison's TARDIS. But the script editor at the time was completely incapable of writing likeable characters and the producer didn't care.
I'm not sure that dynamic is really replicable. Hartnell's Doctor isn't really the Doctor at all. He has a completely different origin story from all the other Doctors. Ian and Barbara are the heroes. Hartnell's character can't really become the Doctor as we know him until first Susan and then Ian and Barbara leave.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
I have never watched Dr. Who. If I were to start watching, what background information or tidbit of knowledge should I be aware of?
For mainly geographical and chronological reasons (i.e. living in the wrong country when it was on, and in the right one when it wasn't), I found myself in that situation when New Who arrived, and I needed to learn fast.
I saw New Who as it went out, so Rose came first, as intended.
One of the first classic stories I was shown was Spearhead from Space, and I think that was the one which made me a fan.
It is Jon Wertwee's first story, and a new departure in many ways: new body, new companion, new situation (stuck on Earth) - and in colur for the first time. It is therefore a very introductory kind of episode, with lots of background and exposition.
Incidentally, it shares an important detail with Rose, but I won't spoil it by saying what.
Alternatively, you could start with the very very first story, An Unearthly Child (1963), but be aware that aside from the introductory episode, it is not considered one of the best stories, and is very much of its time. It's not as bad as some say, though. The original second story was The Daleks - a introducing the most celebrated villains.
Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
One of the first classic stories I was shown was Spearhead from Space, and I think that was the one which made me a fan.
I nearly suggested starting with Spearhead from Space. It's the only point in the classic run that is set up as a jumping in point. (I wouldn't start with An Unearthly Child, since by modern standards early Doctor Who is an acquired taste.) But the Third Doctor's era is just so atypical of the series as a whole until he's allowed off 20th century earth again.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
The only male companion who ever worked properly was Jamie. And even then it needed a continual supply of pretty young women to keep the stories going. Includng some of the best ever companions of course.
Jamie was the best male companion after Rory and Ian (and Ian doesn't really count because he's one of the leads). But Ben works, at least in Power of the Daleks, and Steven works, at least in The Time Meddler.
Zoe may be the best black and white era companion excepting Ian and Barbara (who again don't really count). But Polly and Victoria, while good, weren't in the same league as Zoe, let alone Ace or Leela.
[ 27. March 2012, 21:27: Message edited by: Dafyd ]
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
One of the first classic stories I was shown was Spearhead from Space, and I think that was the one which made me a fan.
I nearly suggested starting with Spearhead from Space. It's the only point in the classic run that is set up as a jumping in point. (I wouldn't start with An Unearthly Child, since by modern standards early Doctor Who is an acquired taste.) But the Third Doctor's era is just so atypical of the series as a whole until he's allowed off 20th century earth again.
To return the compliment The Horror of Fang Rock from your list was another one of the stepping stones for me, seen before Spearhead and it worked very well as a standalone. So I'd definitely second that one!
(in the end, I turned out a Pertwee fan, so my judgement may be somewhat biased in that direction...)
Conversely, the very first one I saw was The Aztecs (1964-ish), which I now think is very good, but it mystified me at the time.
Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
Spearhead from Space scared the crap out of me when I was seven. And you know what? Still does. And it's not just that scene (anybody who's seen it knows the one) - the whole thing is creepy. There's one scene where the Doctor and the Brigadier are in the plastics factory and you see Channing's face through a pane of frosted glass. It's grotesque. The whole thing is full of deftly nasty touches like that.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
Conversely, the very first one I saw was The Aztecs (1964-ish), which I now think is very good, but it mystified me at the time.
The Aztecs is classy. Everything John Lucarotti wrote is superb, and in that story it's backed up by good acting, good design, and good directing. And the music is by Richard Rodney Bennett.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Saviour Tortoise
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# 4660
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
First, spending money because it's there. Moffat's invention of the Weeping Angels was pure genius, and it turned Blink into an all-time classic, despite being a filler episode. Since then, they've been over-exposed to Dalek-like levels, appeared in huge numbers, started moving and flying, and have actually become much less interesting. It's no coincidence that some of the very best episodes in recent years have been done on the cheap. Sometimes, less is more.
Got to agree with that. "Blink" is, for me, some of the best Dr Who ever written. (I came in at the end of Tom Baker. "My Doctor" is probably Peter Davison. I've seen a lot of Doctors III and IV since though.) They were somewhat spoilt through over explanation. I happen to think the same problem applied with RTD though. The pressure of being overall show runner means you don't have the time to really hone your own scripts. SM's scripts during RTD's period were absolutely superb. He's not produced anything of that quality since taking on overall responsibility for the show.
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Baptised not Lobotomised
Posts: 745 | From: Bath, UK | Registered: Jun 2003
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
I hope this works. I've just created a shutterfly share site which I'll use to share pics of interest to SoF folks.
The first one is Dr Who related, just for this thread. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
I was closing up at Grace Cathedral, and noticed something I hadn't before... so I snapped a photo, and added the text:
link to photo
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
Okay, I laughed at that one. Well played.
New Who is at its best when being creepy—see Blink, The Doctor's Wife, or the part of Day of the Moon in the children's home. Can the vast Dalek fleets, turn the show into a suspenseful horror series, and it might actually work better.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Yes, AA, bring on the creepy!
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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beatmenace
Shipmate
# 16955
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Posted
I'm not sure Peri was in the series to be listened to. She got the job for other reasons i think, and was equally effective at that with the sound turned down.
However Mel has to be the all time worst case of miscasting (except for Kamelion - a robot that no one knew how to work) ever in Who.
Can't think of any redeeming feature of Mel's tenure. Any challengers?
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"I'm the village idiot , aspiring to great things." (The Icicle Works)
Posts: 297 | From: Whitley Bay | Registered: Feb 2012
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Spearhead from Space scared the crap out of me when I was seven. And you know what? Still does. And it's not just that scene (anybody who's seen it knows the one) - the whole thing is creepy. There's one scene where the Doctor and the Brigadier are in the plastics factory and you see Channing's face through a pane of frosted glass. It's grotesque. The whole thing is full of deftly nasty touches like that.
Is it Spearhead or Terror of the Autons that's got the doll in it? That freaked me for weeks when I first watched it. Completely forgot about it and was completely freaked out again when I caught it on the UK Gold re-runs.
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Spearhead from Space scared the crap out of me when I was seven. And you know what? Still does. And it's not just that scene (anybody who's seen it knows the one) - the whole thing is creepy. There's one scene where the Doctor and the Brigadier are in the plastics factory and you see Channing's face through a pane of frosted glass. It's grotesque. The whole thing is full of deftly nasty touches like that.
Is it Spearhead or Terror of the Autons that's got the doll in it? That freaked me for weeks when I first watched it. Completely forgot about it and was completely freaked out again when I caught it on the UK Gold re-runs.
Tubbs
That was Terror of the Autons. Same writer. And he went on to script-edit the show, too. During his tenure we had a regular diet of torture, electrocution, mutations, desiccated corpses, walking Egyptian mummies (well, robots disguised as), headless stitched-together monsters, and villains in various stages of bodily decomposition.
Ah, happy days ...
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
Not to mention Ark in Space, of which the TardisEruditorum blog says:
quote:
I won't lie. It's a man with bubble wrap glued to him. But it's the scariest man with bubble wrap glued to him ever.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Spearhead from Space scared the crap out of me when I was seven. And you know what? Still does...
That's what the sofa is for.
Always make sure there is enough space behind it for all the familiy
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'We are star-stuff. We are the Universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out'
Delenn (Babylon 5)
Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Apart from on the Ship, all I hear are complaints about the whole Matt Smith run.
For a lot of people these days David Tennant is their Doctor and Russell Davies their producer/script editor in chief. It's expected of Doctor Who fandom that you slag off the era before and after your Doctor and production team.
The classic fan blogs I'm following think quite highly of the Smith era. (That's Wife in Space and TardisEruditorum.) I think it's true to say that a lot of people think it's not quite as good as it could be given the actors and the chief writer (I could do without River Song). But I don't think saying that is saying much.
Dafyd, even back in the early 80s I'd realised that people always seemed to dislike after the Doctor after the one they they first knew. You get used to one day of doing things, and find it really hard to cope when they change. But after that "second Doctor" things normally settle down, and you get a more balanced vision.
One of the main things I like about the Ship is finding that other people have very different views on subjects where I like to believe I am absolutely right. Doctor Who is a good case in point. I don't follow any of the fan sites (although I am loving Wife in Space) and I don't know enough to rank as a serious fan. But I'm not convinced by Moffatt (as producer) and Smith, and the people I meet and talk to aren't either. It's only here, on the Ship, who like, nay rave, about them. Now, I have no idea why this division exists, which side has more numbers on it, let alone which side is "right". But it does make for some fascinating discussions, provided neither side simply ignores those who disagree with them.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Hartnell's Doctor isn't really the Doctor at all.
But, but... Hartnell is the Doctor!
OK, he's not "my" Doctor, that would be Troughton, but he is certainly the Doctor. The grumpiness, egotism, dangerous inquisitivness, and strangely selective cowardice, they are all still there and always have been. Its just some younger versions hide some parts of the character flaws better.
quote:
He has a completely different origin story from all the other Doctors. .
He lied.
He's a Timelord. Timelords always lie. About that sort of thing anyway.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
...
Oh, and have a sofa to hide behind. It's a well established fact that the Daleks can't get you if you're hiding behind a sofa.
They can, however, do stairs.
Tubbs
yes Flying Daleks are a totally unfair CHEAT!
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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain
Posts: 6477 | From: Alice's Restaurant (UK Franchise) | Registered: Sep 2005
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
He has a completely different origin story from all the other Doctors. .
He lied.
He's a Timelord. Timelords always lie. About that sort of thing anyway.
Susan backs up his story. In fact, the mere fact of her presence in the TARDIS is inexplicable on the post-Troughton account of the Doctor's origin.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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