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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Doctor Who: The Doctor is back! (Summer 2012)
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
[Gumby voice] My brain hurts![/Gumby voice] ![[Confused]](confused.gif) ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
The significant amount of Wild West imagery and the huge number of explosions leaves me in no doubt that this is another series which will be cravenly chasing the US market, continuing to turn a once-great British icon into another identikit franchise.
I certainly hope not. I hate what was done to Torchwood (though that wasn't a "once-great British icon"). That season/series that was placed in the US wasn't bad in itself, but it kinda ruined Torchwood, if that makes any sense. Then again, what might have ruined Torchwood was this weird seeming attempt to stitch it onto Christian themes. It doesn't map exactly, of course, but there's a lot of similarities.
The last series of Torchwood wasn't bad in itself!?!?!?!?
I beg to differ.
But the US crossover marketing seems to be the way things are going now. What profiteth it a series if it gain some money for a few whizzbangs yet forfeit its soul? The US influence was already noticeable in the last series of Who, and I'm not sure what will be left if they go any further down that line.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
[Without being entirely serious:]
Queer as Folk was first broadcast during the Great Drought; the long period of exile when there was no Doctor Who on our screens, and many of us had given up thinking that there ever would be again. The comment I quoted comes from a True Fan (the equivalent of the Johannine beloved disciple if you will), who spoke for all of us who clung to hope when all hope was lost.
The comment matters because QAF was a great series (at least in its original form, before it went abroad and got soft and fluffy); moreover it was written by one Russell T Davies. I believe he went on to do other stuff on the telly, although names escape me now.....
[ETA Comment addressed to Gumby, who seemed confused by my earlier post.]
[ 07. August 2012, 09:39: Message edited by: Robert Armin ]
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
[Gumby voice] My brain hurts![/Gumby voice]
Oh Matt. It's really very simple. There are Strict TV Series Canonists, New Adventures Canonists, BBC Books Canonists, and so on. Then there are fringe groups that really do see The Curse of Fatal Death as canonical (let's face it, it was no more ridiculous than some of the Colin Baker stories), and complete left-field groups like Cushing Canonists.
It's all (or nearly all) about what happened to Doctor Who after Sylvester McCoy's last story, Survival. It began to exist as novels, short stories, radio shows, straight-to-CD audio productions - you name it. Some of these extended and complicated the show's world (the "Whoniverse") to such an extent that some people began asking the hushed question, "Is it really Doctor Who?" Continuity - never really a big concern of the tv show for its first 18 years anyway - became virtually impossible to keep track of with the sheer volume of material coming out from different and competing sources - Virgin Books, BBC Books, Big Finish Audio... The best you could say for it is that at least a lot of it was being produced by people who'd loved the tv show and wanted to do a good job.
But even around 1999/2000, you'd get fans saying "Paul McGann doesn't count!", partly because the tv movie had bollocksed continuity even more with probably the most ludicrous line of dialogue in the history of the show - "I'm half human, on my mother's side." The usual fan response was, "He's the Doctor, he's not Mr flaming Spock!"
Then came 2005, which made things even more complicated. (Was this the first, second or third time Gallifrey had been destroyed? Hm...)
Me, I'm a tv canonist. (And I don't include The Curse of Fatal Death in that!) It keeps things neat and tidy, and anyway, I ignored most of those other media so I wouldn't even know ehere to start with them. But I suspect that when Moffat or RTD or whoever says, "everything's canon", they really mean "nothing's canon" - i.e. it's my show and I'll do what I like with it. Which is not only true, it's also kind of what the great producers like Lambert, Letts and Hinchcliffe did anyway.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
It's really very simple. There are Strict TV Series Canonists, New Adventures Canonists, BBC Books Canonists, and so on. Then there are fringe groups that really do see The Curse of Fatal Death as canonical (let's face it, it was no more ridiculous than some of the Colin Baker stories), and complete left-field groups like Cushing Canonists.
And then there are those who think that the only canonical Colin Baker stories are audio-only.
Do you want to treat The Twin Dilemma and Trial of a Time Lord as canonical? Of course you don't.
quote:
Continuity - never really a big concern of the tv show for its first 18 years anyway
There is understatement, damn understatement, and saying that classic Doctor Who didn't care about continuity. (Except in Peter Davison's last season and Colin Baker's first. There may be a few fans out there who think those two seasons represent a pinnacle that Doctor Who has never surpassed. There is no opinion so wrong that some Doctor Who fan won't argue for it.)
quote:
But I suspect that when Moffat or RTD or whoever says, "everything's canon", they really mean "nothing's canon" - i.e. it's my show and I'll do what I like with it. Which is not only true, it's also kind of what the great producers like Lambert, Letts and Hinchcliffe did anyway.
Well, yes. Doctor Who: not letting continuity get in the way of a good story since at least The Dalek Invasion of Earth.
[ 07. August 2012, 15:32: Message edited by: Dafyd ]
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
[Oh Matt. It's really very simple. There are Strict TV Series Canonists, New Adventures Canonists, BBC Books Canonists, and so on. Then there are fringe groups that really do see The Curse of Fatal Death as canonical (let's face it, it was no more ridiculous than some of the Colin Baker stories), and complete left-field groups like Cushing Canonists.
Yes, but they are all Bad and Wrong.
Everyone really knows that what counts is original BBC TV series as actually broadcast, ignoring that thing with Paul McGann in it!
And also that the Time Lords lie. A lot. Including the Doctor. So you can only believe what you see, not what they say...
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Balaam:
I've always thought that the reason for an American immortal in Torchwood is so that we can have two series, the Welsh one and the spin off American one.
Interesting idea. That would be a good solution, actually - let the original go back to being what it was, if it can. Maybe the ship has sailed, though.
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
But the US crossover marketing seems to be the way things are going now. What profiteth it a series if it gain some money for a few whizzbangs yet forfeit its soul? The US influence was already noticeable in the last series of Who, and I'm not sure what will be left if they go any further down that line.
I imagine it's 'cause they noticed the huge American fan base. But making the show more American as a result is rather stupid, since the American fans obviously are fans of the British show. They're not going to be impressed by the changes. It's insulting that they assume Americans can only enjoy American-style programming, and it's probably misguided if they think Americanizing the show will bring in a wider US market share.
Oh, and what I meant by the US-based season of Torchwood not being bad in itself was that if it weren't Torchwood, it would've been an interesting show on its own (perhaps with some modifications to make it not a Torchwood rip-off, but still). The fact that it was Torchwood made it a big let down.
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I went right off Torchwood once it crossed the Atlantic - it just wasn't the same.
It should come back, be set in Birmingham, lose Gwen Cooper and resurrect Ianto and Owen. Then I'd watch it.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I went right off Torchwood once it crossed the Atlantic - it just wasn't the same.
It should come back, be set in Birmingham, lose Gwen Cooper and resurrect Ianto and Owen. Then I'd watch it.
Why Birmingham?
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Far too much Amy in the trailer, but apparently she disappears halfway through the series. Sadly Rory is meant to go as well, but anything is a price worth paying to see the back of her.
I wish Rory could be the travelling companion for the next regeneration of the Doctor, who would be gay. Isn't it time, really?
When I saw the trailer for the new series I got all teary. This is the greatest show in all spacetime -- deeply spiritual, deeply moral, and somehow I think profoundly prescient.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I went right off Torchwood once it crossed the Atlantic - it just wasn't the same.
It should come back, be set in Birmingham, lose Gwen Cooper and resurrect Ianto and Owen. Then I'd watch it.
Why Birmingham?
Something to do with Coronation Street?
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
Something to do with Coronation Street?
Slight as my acquaintance with these things is, Corrie is a) produced by a commercial channel and not the BBC and b) set in a fictionalised version of Salford - which Is proper northern (Brummagen is Midlands).
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
1. Curse of Fatal Death is canon. Everything else, while nice (I suppose), isn't. If I don't get to have Blackadder as the Doctor, I don't know why I even bother.
2. Just because they're shooting something in an Anachronistic Old West doesn't mean it's getting "Americanized," whatever that means. Sure, it may have been a while, but Who has been West before—am I the only one who's hoping for a "stick it in your pipe and smoke it, Jeremy Bentham*" reference to "The Gunslingers?"
*Okay, so I would rather tell that to the stuffed Bentham with the wax head at University College, but his relative will have to suffice.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Everyone really knows that what counts is original BBC TV series as actually broadcast, ignoring that thing with Paul McGann in it!
And also that the Time Lords lie. A lot. Including the Doctor. So you can only believe what you see, not what they say...
Unfortunately, when we saw the amnesiac Doctor's journal in "Human Nature / Family of Blood", in which he had sketched his previous faces, he quite clearly included McGann. This was the defining moment for the McGann-is-Canon brigade.
Unless of course he was lying about remembering.
Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firaenze:
Corrie is ... set in a fictionalised version of Salford - which Is proper northern
Tha dun't know what tha's sayin'. It's wrong side o' t' 'ills.
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Last ever sig ...
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Jestocost:
This was the defining moment for the McGann-is-Canon brigade.
McGann is canon. It's just that sadly he was never in anything on television. Just like Colin Baker.
[ 08. August 2012, 10:47: Message edited by: Dafyd ]
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Trial of a Time Lord is the first story I can clearly remember from when I was younger, and despite that (or maybe because of it?), I still didn't like Colin Baker. By rights, he should have been "my" Doctor, but I hated him. The poor man's just doomed to be The One We Don't Talk About.
quote:
Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
2. Just because they're shooting something in an Anachronistic Old West doesn't mean it's getting "Americanized," whatever that means. Sure, it may have been a while, but Who has been West before—am I the only one who's hoping for a "stick it in your pipe and smoke it, Jeremy Bentham*" reference to "The Gunslingers?"
It's not exactly that there's anything wrong with a Western setting, more that Who seems to be finding excuses to do lots of location filming in the US, have American characters/references, and so on, not because it's necessary or makes for a good story, but to appeal to a different market. It feels forced and desperate, and I can't imagine what the Brigadier would have thought of it.
But I don't think the trainwreck that was the last series of Torchwood had anything to do with the US influence - it was just shit.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I went right off Torchwood once it crossed the Atlantic - it just wasn't the same.
It should come back, be set in Birmingham, lose Gwen Cooper and resurrect Ianto and Owen. Then I'd watch it.
Why Birmingham?
Something to do with Coronation Street?
No, I just like Birmingham.
(There are other places I like as well but Birmingham would be a better setting than most of them. The Weevils could surface in the Bull Ring after dark and chase the cast along the canals. There could be a heroic scene on the flimy metallic bridge to the Mailbox where Jack has a shootout with whoever's currently pursuing him. And Gwen could fall off it into the canal. Lots of possibilities.)
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Ceannaideach
Shipmate
# 12007
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
The Weevils could surface in the Bull Ring after dark and chase the cast along the canals. There could be a heroic scene on the flimy metallic bridge to the Mailbox where Jack has a shootout with whoever's currently pursuing him. And Gwen could fall off it into the canal. Lots of possibilities.)
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
And if you head up the cut towards Dudley then there's plenty of wasteland/warehouses for alien encounters. (Not just with the locals ![[Biased]](wink.gif) )
Or down under the BT tower to Farmer's Bridge. Birmingham has many Torchwood possibilities!
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"I dream of the day when I will learn to stop asking questions for which I will regret learning the answers." - Roy Greenhilt OOTS
Posts: 199 | From: Shakespeare's County | Registered: Nov 2006
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
Maybe Torchwood had just jumped the shark the season before the last. Although Dr. Who has jumped a few sharks and managed to come back just fine. Although occasionally Dr. Who only manages to do so through a regeneration of the Doctor. Possibly also because it's got such a long and beloved history.
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
What made the American Torchwood more disappointing was that after a poor start (with promising bits) in the first two episodic series, it hit its stride in the third series, being a continuous story.
Hearing that the fourth series was also a single story I had high hopes. Sadly these hopes were dashed.
But Children of Earth showed that Torchwood can work.
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Last ever sig ...
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
Maybe Torchwood had just jumped the shark the season before the last.
Torchwood had jumped the shark before the first season. Children of Earth showed that Torchwood could work by being Torchwood for people who wanted to see Torchwood put out of its misery.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
I liked every series of Torchwood. None of them were perfect in my view but I enjoyed them.
One thing that irritates me about our Who discussions is that some people give their opinion as being absolute fact. Can we remember that we are all different and we all like different things?
Thank you.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
One thing that irritates me about our Who discussions is that some people give their opinion as being absolute fact. Can we remember that we are all different and we all like different things?
Thank you.
I get the horrible feeling that this might be aimed at me, but I hope not. Apart from factual issues of historical precedent and suchlike, I tend to take it as read that we're all just exchanging opinions, so it seems redundant to acknowledge that what I say is just my opinion, even though that's obviously exactly what it is. I think that obvious opposition of different subjective opinions might make these discussions a bit feisty sometimes, though. According to Sayre's Law:
quote:
Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low
I think that applies here as well, but if I'm coming across as dogmatic, I'll try to behave in future. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
One thing that irritates me about our Who discussions is that some people give their opinion as being absolute fact.
Is that a fact?
Still, it is true that there are very few "absolutes" about Doctor Who (and within the context of the story I honestly am having trouble coming up with even one absolute). With regard to the show as a series, there are, of course, historical facts as to such things as broadcast dates, actors who played parts, producers, directors, etc. But apparently even that is going to become the subject of a TV drama.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Balaam:
What made the American Torchwood more disappointing was that after a poor start (with promising bits) in the first two episodic series, it hit its stride in the third series, being a continuous story.
Hearing that the fourth series was also a single story I had high hopes. Sadly these hopes were dashed.
But Children of Earth showed that Torchwood can work.
Not just with Torchwood, but in general - I prefer the episodic. I think some good shows can ruin themselves even with a story arc (like House - it was much better IMO when it was episodes of medical mysteries). Having a story that spans a few episodes is OK, but my taste is more for the episodic. It tends to keep a season/series from needing to continuously ramp up the drama over the course of a season/series.
Dr Who tends to be episodic, although IMO it suffers when it tries to create a season-long arc that has to culminate in yet another end-of-the-world-averted finale.
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
It is true that the premise of Doctor Who, namely a police box that ends up somewhere completely different in time and space every story, is about as completely unsuited to story arcs as any premise I can think of.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
I also prefer the episodic but the Roguelings, whose first exposure to the Doctor was the modern era, like long story arcs.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
I also prefer the episodic but the Roguelings, whose first exposure to the Doctor was the modern era, like long story arcs.
Classic Who was never episodic, in the way the new series is. It consisted of stories of typically four to six episodes each. Even then there were occasional series long story arcs.
I'm not a fan of story arcs that run for an entire series myself, but do like stories that are more than episode long.
As for contradicting the Whovian canon. As long as a story has a consistent logic within itself I'm happy. There have always been stories that contradict the back story of previous ones, it doesn't matter.
Is the Doctor 50% human or 100% Time Lord? Whatever fits that particular story best.
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Last ever sig ...
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Hugal
Shipmate
# 2734
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Posted
I have come late to this discussion but, McGann has to be canon as McCoy becomes McGann. I think the TV film is not good but McGann does a great job on audio.
Torchwood was not that great in the first few series. It felt a little teenage (ooo we can be rude and talk about sex). Children of Earth was the best series. The last series was OK but protracted. Too many episodes to story.
Amy has become Rose all over again.
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I have never done this trick in these trousers before.
Posts: 1887 | From: london | Registered: Apr 2002
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quantpole
Shipmate
# 8401
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Posted
A question if I may for someone who hasn't seen much of the original series (I have vague memories of it when I was younger but that's all). Which series would people recommend that I get on DVD? Are the revisitation sets worth it or should I stick to individual stories?
Posts: 885 | From: Leeds | Registered: Aug 2004
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
There must be loads of different stories you can get and no doubt different people here will have different recommendations.
You could get one story from each Doctor and decide which one you like but then again there is no guarantee that another with the same Doctor will be as good/poor. Also that's eight DVDs which will cost a fair bit.
How about scouring the reduced bins and finding something that's cheap and taking pot luck?
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
We've seen a lot of classic Doctor Who on DVDs borrowed from the local library. If your library loans DVDs, check it out -- ours has loads of old Doctor Who episodes, so we can watch them for free.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
And, dare I say it, but pretty much everything from the original series has been put online for free. It's an easy way to find which ones are worth the money before plonking down the cash.
That said, Key to Time.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quantpole:
Are the revisitation sets worth it or should I stick to individual stories?
Random list of classic episodes to see, representing a range of periods and styles:
The War Games (black and white)
Carnival of Monsters
Genesis of the Daleks
Brain of Morbius
Robots of Death
Horror of Fang Rock
City of Death
Warriors Gate
Caves of Androzani
Remembrance of the Daleks
Curse of Fenric
Survival
(A lot of people would put on a couple more early Tom Baker, such as Talons of Weng-Chiang and Pyramids of Mars, and take off (probably) Warriors Gate and Survival. With Talons of Weng-Chiang I can see the logic.)
Revisitation 1 has Talons of Weng-Chiang(very good to brilliant), Caves of Androzani (brilliant), and the TV movie (dire). Probably worth it for Caves of Androzani alone; with Talons of Weng-Chiang definitely worth doing unless you can find the two of them cheaper separately.
Revisitation 2 has Seeds of Death (good), Carnival of Monsters (brilliant), and Resurrection of the Daleks (good to dire). The only way at the moment to get Carnival of Monsters I think, and probably worth it for that alone.
Revisitation 3 has Tomb of the Cybermen (very good to dire), The Three Doctors (very good to bad but entertaining), and the Robots of Death (brilliant). Maybe worth it for Robots of Death alone
I haven't thought about in the DVD extras, which were supposed to be the point of the sets.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
If you have Netflix, you can watch quite a lot of it streaming online, and rent DVDs (recommended for the extras sometimes). If you don't have Netflix, you could do a free trial they tend to offer for a month.
When I was starting to catch up on the old series, I started from the very beginning at first, then skipped around based on what looked interesting. Although I did try to catch the first episode(s) of a recurring character's / monster's first appearance if I could.
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
I was kinda hoping the Doctor saying he was going to lay low would have meant a return to some more quiet but pointed stuff, less saving of the universe, for the umpteenth time, and more saving a few people as he travels around.
And then we get this thing with another gigantic army of daleks.
And worse, now my wife has told me about one of the more prominent spoiler rumours and although it make sense, it pretty much ruins one of the characters for me.
I think the makers of Who take the Doctor far far too seriously compared to the old days.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
Oh and I just saw the interview with the new companion and ...well.......oh dear.......hope she can act better then she interviews.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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quantpole
Shipmate
# 8401
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Posted
Thanks for the advice everyone. Will be interesting to see how it affects my viewing of nu-who.
Posts: 885 | From: Leeds | Registered: Aug 2004
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Og - have you got a link for that interview?
A little while ago I tried to organise a day where a few of us got together, each brought our favourite Who adventure, and we spent the day in happy viewing. Sadly it never happened, due to logistics, but my choice was "The Mind Games" (Troughton). Other contributions were going to be "Tomb of the Cybermen" (Troughton), "Spearhead from Space" (Pertwee) and "Genesis of the Daleks" (T Baker). That was as modern as we got - none of us got close to nu-Who - which shows I'm not the only dinosaur out there.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
And worse, now my wife has told me about one of the more prominent spoiler rumours and although it make sense, it pretty much ruins one of the characters for me.
Oh, I wish you hadn't said that. Now I'll be driven mad, torn between my desire not to be spoiled and my curiosity at what this rumour can be.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
it pretty much ruins one of the characters for me.
Colin Baker did that back in the day.
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Last ever sig ...
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
I think the makers of Who take the Doctor far far too seriously compared to the old days.
Yes. And it's a shame. One of the things I really like about Matt Smith is the levity he brings to the character.
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
I think the makers of Who take the Doctor far far too seriously compared to the old days.
Yes. And it's a shame. One of the things I really like about Matt Smith is the levity he brings to the character.
Personally, I've been thinking that the problem is CGI. It allows them to do huge spectacles (like a screen filled with thousands of Daleks)--and that brings the temptation to write a story to allow the spectacle. The desire for the spectacular image dictates the story. Whether it is the excesses of a thousand burning Daleks; or the excesses of a Dalek-Cyberman War; or the excesses of a sky filled with planets; or the excesses of showing fractured time with pterodactyls buzzing Big Ben...and on and on and on. I can't shake the feeling that they come up with the "cool image" first and then shoehorn a story in to get to the image.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
But CGI can work. In Smith's first episode, hanging on to the edge of an out of control TARDIS, who could not like that?
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
I'm also thinking of the CGI work in "The Doctor's Wife," which, granted, happened to have an okayish sort of writer, but also a writer who has experience in using visuals to aid the story. Yes, flashy CGI makes for great opening set pieces (think "Good Man Goes to War"), then gets out of the way, but in the hands of a skilled writer or director, can aid the story immensely.
And really. Have we forgotten that the rubber snake in "Kinda" bore some of the blame for the series' cancellation? Heck, I've heard no mention of Tom Baker fellating the Creature from the Pit, nor the godawful ChromaKey in "Underworld." Misused, off-kilter, and poorly-integrated visuals are something Who has dealt with throughout its tenure. Let it not be thought that visuals are either an inducement to bad writing ("Doctor's Wife," 2/3rds of Key to Time), or the lack thereof an aid to good episodes ("Closing Time," too many classic episodes to list).
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
Perhaps I explained myself poorly. Wouldn't be the first time. CGI is not evil in itself. As an aid to a story, it can be quite effective. My concern is that too many stories cross the line--where the story is in aid of the CGI rather than the other way around.
The classic series was not immune to this. I am ashamed to admit that I can't recall the story title, but Ace's first story set on Iceworld: From the moment I first saw it, I was convinced that it was written just to allow them to do the special effect of having the villain melt at the end. The special effect was quite well done, but the story itself was nonsensical and seemed to have been written for the sole sake of doing the special effect.
The McGann movie has a similar problem. There was a lot of appealing "eye candy" in it--more effort seemed to be spent on that that the storyline itself. Which is a pity, because McGann himself showed promise of being an excellent Doctor.
Many NuWho stories (some of which I referenced in the previous posting) strike me the same way--a lot of time and effort spent on the visual effects, not so much about whether the story made any sense.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
Which is a shame, really, since fans of the old series certainly were on board for the stories (and characters?), given that the special effects were so limited. From DVD extras I've watched, it seems the limitations were at least as often budgetary as anything else.
In general (beyond Who), CGI has raised audience expectations in the SFX department, but I'd like to think that audiences still appreciate (and maybe prefer0 a good story. I guess maybe there's too much subjectivity about what makes a good story - some people will actually prefer spectacular action to any other story.
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
So, new trailer for the daleks episode. They're not selling it as another daleks try to take over the universe story.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
Have we forgotten that the rubber snake in "Kinda" bore some of the blame for the series' cancellation?
Aren't you thinking of the myrka in Warriors of the Deep? The rubber snake was a poor visual in an otherwise brilliant story; the myrka was an obvious symptom of a story in which it wasn't clear why anyone ever thought anything was a good idea.
Warriors Gate may be the best example of the series squeezing stunning visuals out of next to no budget.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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