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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Doctor Who: The Doctor is back! (Summer 2012)
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Dafyd-- Yes to Rose, yes to Martha( Now there's an actress that is really owed an apology), but no to Donna. And I don't think it's just the telling off, it a kind of detached telling off that says that person has a limit of their own, and they are going to set it no matter what anyone says. Amy's tell-offs tended to be of a "this is for your own good" variety.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Totally agree about Martha. Why is my favourite new companion the only one to get just the one season? (But, for the number of excellent episodes, I reckon it's the best new season so far.)
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Finally caught up with the episode that I missed!
It felt a bit like the Doctor and his companions being stuck in either the Crystal Maze or the Krypton Factor for a bit, which wasn't terribly interesting as they raced from locked room to locked room with someone solving the door-opening codes and giving directions each time. The bit with Oswin was an eye-opener, though. I didn't see that coming and never expected her to be a Dalek.
Oswin is an odd choice of name for a woman - it's a male name for a start and a Saxon one at that. Which immediately put me in mind of Mr Saxon - remember him? What with that and the supreme confidence and geeky cleverness made me wonder if this new companion is all she seems...
Well, obviously, since she's really a Dalek, she isn't, but who knows.
The chill-down-the-spine bit for me was when the guy said "Oh yes, I forgot. I died outside", and carried on. The Daleks were just Daleks, sorry, I think we've had rather a lot of them and it's a bit difficult to tell them apart.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Finally watched Asylum tonight. Very stylish. Not entirely sure what it actually adds up to, apart from the fact we've had The Question asked very explicitly... and a girl who looked at the camera when she said "remember me"...
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
Hmm...the Doctor killing Solomon in cold blood? Didn't like that. Otherwise a good episode if somewhat at the fun end of the spectrum, with the exception of the first point obviously
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Solomon was a scumbag, who threatened the doctor and killed tricey. I don't feel sorry for him.
Camp argumentative robots? Brilliant. Very Douglas Adams, but they were fabulous. Nefertiti brilliant, and Amys "I'm worth 2 men" fantastic.
All in all, a good fun but very enjoyable episode.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
Oh, Solomon totally deserved it. But the Doctor doesn't do that sort of thing
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290
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Posted
pleasantly referential and bizarre. When are they gonna get rid of Pond?
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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain
Posts: 6477 | From: Alice's Restaurant (UK Franchise) | Registered: Sep 2005
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
The Doctor has set people up before - he just never explicitly pulls the trigger/presses the sword home.
That was fun - lovely surprise to see Rupert Graves, one of my favourite actors. Quite made up for the annoying Amy (he should have used the stun gun on her).
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
Ask Cassandra if the Doctor ever kills anyone.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
I thought Julian and Sandy had been resuscitated from Round the Horne, to play the camp robots. They were actually Mitchell and Webb. Great!
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
It suddenly struck us about half way through as well. Perhaps a nod to Douglas Adams. Very funny.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
Sigh. My son got so upset that he said he hated Moff for ruining WHO and wanted to punch him, turned it off and declared it a Jurassic Park/Hitchhikers Guide rip off, said that he must think we are all stupid to think Nefertiti would leave her kingdom to live in a tent with that lady hating jerk, put on a DVD of The Stones of Blood with Tom Baker and declared that he wasn't watching again until the Christmas episode.
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
Sigh. My son got so upset that he said he hated Moff for ruining WHO and wanted to punch him, turned it off and declared it a Jurassic Park/Hitchhikers Guide rip off, said that he must think we are all stupid to think Nefertiti would leave her kingdom to live in a tent with that lady hating jerk, put on a DVD of The Stones of Blood with Tom Baker and declared that he wasn't watching again until the Christmas episode.
Allow me to offer your son a career path. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
OK, finally caught up with everything. Some comments:
1. (sigh) It like the Great Avocado Divide on the Ship. I love avocados, and the last two eps have only made me fall more and more in love with Karen Gillan*. Y'all go ahead and pass around the Hateraid, I think she is kicking ass. I never thought I 'd say smething like this, but I was actually watching her more in "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship" that I did Smith.**The only frustrating thing is she's finally doing the stuff (character-wise) that she should have been doing from Season 1.
2. The shows are becoming more ensemble- y! Hooray! It's wonderful! It's like Cheers in Space (the Doctor being Woody.)It's not everybody pointing their faces at one character, it's everybody tossing the ball around! They seem to be enjoying the hell out of themselves!
3. I probably need somebody more informed that me to confirm this for the series as a whole but DiS was the first ep I have seen that totally fulfilled
the Bechdel Test!
(I loved Amy mooning around after Nefertiti. I agree with the kid about her shacking up with Moffatt's version of a Mary Sue.)
4. To whoever it is on the writing staff who is obviously lurking-- thank you for the Doctor/ Rory kiss. I know you did that just for me.
*Of course, my increase in regard might also stem from discovering that she is not a mere companion, but an amazing, fantastic sandbagger. (trans: startlingly impressive bowler. No shit.
** Having said that, he just keeps getting better and better. The ensemble thing suits him wonderfully.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Oh, one more thing--
3. The USA merch ads were killing me, Absolutely killing me. I swear to God, I'm gonna be tidying a classroom someday and step on Timelord face.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I'm glad I'm not the only one going so far back that I thought of Jules and Sandy.
And I agree about Nefertiti and the Quatermain clone. (Though is that name still under copyright, after the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen?) On the other hand Amenhotep/Akhenaten might well have been a bit of a drag.
But I am a little troubled about the baddy. Or rather, his name. Allied to his characteristics. Since Moffat does nothing by accident. Anyone else noticed?
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
I really enjoyed that.
Was it Douglas-Adams-y? Yes. Although earlier in the day Dave had been showing the Red Dwarf ep with the bird that gets turned into a T-Rex. And next week we have a cyborg Gunslinger.
So the Doctor killed someone. Well he was a genocidal maniac who cared only about money. Plus he hurt Rory's dad (please please let's have more Mark Williams! The trowel, love it!).
I'm surprised no-one's mentioned the Deep Meaningful conversation Amy and the Doctor had whilst he was fishing out the green glowy thing, about how he'll always keep coming back until the end and she said vice-versa. Obvious foreshadowing I thought.
Nefertiti was a bit kick-ass-heroine by numbers but ok. I think her and Riddell did seem a bit too pat but it could have worked if they'd had more time but there was a lot going on and it was not a two-parter. Showing him becoming her consort in Egypt would have been fun but the budget probably wasn't up to it.
Anyway big thumbs up from me.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
Interesting twist that he selected a (diverse) team to help. Does this show a shift toward multiple different helpers in the future? Rather that relying on one. (not that there wont be only one but having a bit of colour thrown in)
Fly Safe, Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I was thinking next weeks looks a little Westworld. I wonder if there is a deliberate nod to other films this series?
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
There were some lovely bits in last night's story, but I didn't get a great overall impression. I think that, as in his story 42, writer Chris Chibnall suffered from having too many good ideas that he then failed to work through properly.
I didn't have a problem with the Doctor condemning Solomon to death - he's been at least as callous many times before, when the mood took him. And I think the best idea of the whole story was the enlightening of Brian Williams - I'd have liked to see more of him, and less of Nefertiti and the Quatermain character (although Rupert Graves is always good value, and very easy on the eye). Brian's "It's better than golf!" was funny, and his final scene, sitting on the TARDIS doorstep looking down at Earth, was a delight.
But. I'm getting really fed up with the running strand of sexual innuendo. It's not even as if it's good sexual innuendo.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Finally watched Asylum tonight. Very stylish. Not entirely sure what it actually adds up to, apart from the fact we've had The Question asked very explicitly... and a girl who looked at the camera when she said "remember me"...
I thought it was all about Doctor Who doing Pincher Martin. For those who've not read Golding's novel, I won't spoil it any more than I've done so already.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
My son got so upset that he said he hated Moff for ruining WHO and wanted to punch him, turned it off and declared it a Jurassic Park/Hitchhikers Guide rip off, said that he must think we are all stupid to think Nefertiti would leave her kingdom to live in a tent with that lady hating jerk, put on a DVD of The Stones of Blood with Tom Baker and declared that he wasn't watching again until the Christmas episode.
Do make sure your son doesn't start watching The Pirate Planet or City of Death. Ripping off the Hitchhikers' Guide is just returning the Doctor Who DNA to where it came from. Douglas Adams' later work is all cast-off Doctor Who scripts. And let's not get onto the relation between early Tom Baker and Hammer Horror.
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship is just one of those things that Doctor Who is there to do. The episode didn't really deliver anything beyond the title and a trailer - (*) - but my inner eight year old didn't care a bit.
(*) actually I liked the use of the Silurians.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Very stylish.
Yeah, that kind of annoyed me. wacky camera angles and surround-shots are starting to actually feel dated to me-- it's the kind of thing Ridley Scott farted around with in the nineties. And the background music had the personality of an attention whore. Dial it down! God's sake.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
Earlier this afternoon I was walking over a railway bridge near my house. Someone had chalked the words "BAD WOLF" on the brickwork! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
(And yet, how terribly 2005!)
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Robin
Shipmate
# 71
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Posted
I thought the robots looked very much like the ones from the Sarah-Jane adventure, "The Empty Planet". Presumably Solomon picked them up at a junkyard somewhere. However, the camp voices are new.
Robin
Posts: 263 | From: Aberdeen | Registered: May 2001
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Robin
Shipmate
# 71
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Posted
Or maybe I'm thinking of the robots from the start of "The Fifth Element".
Robin
Posts: 263 | From: Aberdeen | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I thought the robots were very Douglas Adams.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
I thought when I saw the series trailer that this looked like an episode that had been written around a tagline, and I didn't see anything to challenge that view. The dinosaurs were fun enough, but they added nothing to the plot except as a reason to save the ship. They were more or less a giant reanimated prehistoric MacGuffin.
I liked some of the ideas, especially Mitchell and Webb's camp robots, but I'm not so sure about the expanded Tardis crew. It runs the risk of creating new characters as disposable plot drivers, which doesn't sound all that great. I could accept Rory's dad, but the others not so much. The trip through time to pick up all those extra passengers also highlighted the question of why a time-traveller chose to jump onto the ship just before it was to be blown up, rather than several days earlier.
But it was fun, and I thought it was nice to see the Doctor being a bit colder and more ruthless than he's been for many regenerations. Consistency would be nice, but given how vile Solomon was, and the extreme circumstances, I can't get too worked up about it.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Late Paul:
I'm surprised no-one's mentioned the Deep Meaningful conversation Amy and the Doctor had whilst he was fishing out the green glowy thing, about how he'll always keep coming back until the end and she said vice-versa. Obvious foreshadowing I thought.
I couldn't say a word about it because it absolutely gutted me. The look they exchanged made me well up.
Smith has made is very clear in interviews that he is good friends with Gillan and I don't believe there was a bit of acting in that moment-- they just allowed themselves to be friends on camera.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Oh, and I should add, I think the new companion is going to be fantastic -- she is exactly the geeky, sexually ambivalent tech nut churchgeek and I were praying for on the hiatus thread-- but that doesn't mean I won't mourn Amy.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
Well, the script, acting, directing, and effects were good. I'm disappointed. I was almost hoping "Dinosaurs . . . on a SPACESHIP!" would replace "How many Nimons have you seen today?"
More general thoughts, before I go back and watch it again (silly iTunes, I have to wait a day to watch these things):
1. Haven't we tried the whole multiple companion fandango before (albeit with less competent writers) without it working out too well? Hello Nyssa, so glad to see nobody could do anything with your character! That said, when the companion mix was right, and the writers knew what they were doing, it could be brilliant. I'm hoping that, if we see more multi-companion/rotating cast stories, they actually have people write who can pull them off.
2. Well. Hard to get more unique, valuable, and legendary than a time lord, right? Whole empires would tear a planet apart for just one cell, no? Sounds like exactly the kind of thing a slave-trading evil pirate would love. So why doesn't Solomon's scanner recognize the Doctor? I'm guessing that everyone forgetting that the Doctor's alive is going to be a big theme this season—oh, and that an evil pirate might just be the kind of person to strike a deal with the Daleks. It sounds so much more fun than simply killing one and ripping out its memory banks.
3. As for "why Solomon," I was thinking less King Solomon than King Solomon's Mines, which featured the Great White Hunter archetype, lots of incomparably valuable treasure, and started off the whole "lost world" genre—a genre which, surprisingly often, included dinosaurs and, not so surprisingly often, running around and doing heroic adventure-type stuff.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
My first thought was "King Solomon," too, but I shook it off, figuring Nefertiti just sort of put me in an ancient kings frame of mind. Hm.
[ 10. September 2012, 05:22: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
3. As for "why Solomon," I was thinking less King Solomon than King Solomon's Mines, which featured the Great White Hunter archetype, lots of incomparably valuable treasure, and started off the whole "lost world" genre—a genre which, surprisingly often, included dinosaurs and, not so surprisingly often, running around and doing heroic adventure-type stuff.
... and She Who Must Be Obeyed and is a great queen, impossibly ancient... interesting line of thought, thanks for that.
(Thanks to the Carry On films I can never hear "Nefertiti" without thinking of Kenneth Williams.)
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
My first thought was "King Solomon," too, but I shook it off, figuring Nefertiti just sort of put me in an ancient kings frame of mind. Hm.
That was what happened to me, too. And I've just been reading a book identifying the guy's mines with the gold fields round Great Zimbabwe.
It's the second time the name has been used - the good guy leader of the Hooverville in the American Dalek story was a Solomon.
But I'm not happy about the name being attached to someone with the characteristics of a Star Trek Ferengi. He didn't need to have an identifiable Earth type name at all. (Except for the Haggard connection.) And I wondered if Riddell's name was roughly composed of RIDer plus ALLan, but maybe I'm getting too complex there.
I read a lot of Haggard in my teens, until I found his co-authored with Andrew Lang sequel to the Odyssey, "The World's Desire." This contained an argument that the reasons which attracted men to hear Helen singing were deep and spiritual and such that no woman could ever understand. I reread the passage several times, reasoning that I was quite intelligent and could probably get a vague idea of what was so important, but found nothing. This either proved Haggard/Lang correct, or that the obvious, that men like leering at beautiful women and imagining making love to them was true. I felt nothing but contempt for the writers stupidity, and gave up on the books for ever.
[ 10. September 2012, 07:32: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
My feeling is that the extra companions might re-emerge later in the series. This was a way of introducing them. In particular, I suspect we might find out what he was doing with Nefertiti at some point. Or maybe not.
And yes, Carry On has a lot to answer for.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
My feeling is that the extra companions might re-emerge later in the series. This was a way of introducing them. In particular, I suspect we might find out what he was doing with Nefertiti at some point. Or maybe not.
And yes, Carry On has a lot to answer for.
Infamy! Infamy! ....
They did pull the extra companions out of nowhere which is always uncomfortable to me. I suppose everyone's got to appear for the first time but when they arrive and clearly have a long history with the Doctor as opposed to meeting him for the first time on screen I am at a disadvantage against the script writer because they know all about the character and I don't. I don't know if that makes sense but I know what I mean. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
Someone said earlier that Matt Smith works better with a larger cast. I think that's because he is very good at appearing to be unaware of half of what's going on around him and then whirling round and revealing that he can see everything, he has made unexpected links between incidents and he does, in fact, have a plan.
I think he could carry off more adventures with more companions (Rory's Dad does come back later in the series) and if he does only have Rory and/or Amy he starts treating others as companions anyway.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Going back to Solomon's death, is this the first time we've seen the Doctor murder a human? In nu-Who we've seen him happily destroy thousands of Cybermen when he's having a bad day, but humans have been in a different category I think.
(By "human" I really mean "anything that looks human, no matter what planet it comes from". Sadly there is an inbuilt racism in Who, stretching right back to the first series. An alien that looks human can be reckoned to be good and will get much better treatment than an alien who looks, well, alien. The latter will most often be the bad guy.)
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Going back to Solomon's death, is this the first time we've seen the Doctor murder a human? In nu-Who we've seen him happily destroy thousands of Cybermen when he's having a bad day, but humans have been in a different category I think.
He planted a live grenade in the Graf Vynda-K's pocket in The Ribos Operation. He poisoned Solon with cyanide in The Brain of Morbius (although he may not have intended to kill him). If you count Androgums as human, he also poisoned Shockeye in The Two Doctors. I'm sure there must be others.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
To add to Adeodatus' list, the Doctor plans and brings about a human's death in The Robots of Death.
The Doctor's disapproval of killing has always had a streak of casuistry a mile wide. It's possible to argue that the Doctor didn't actually kill Solomon. The Doctor's action could be seen as analagous to switching a runaway trolley from a track where it will kill six people onto a track where it will kill only one. The argument is stretching a bit, but it's hardly as problematic as "it's not killing if it doesn't look human".
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Eigon
Shipmate
# 4917
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Posted
I bet Solomon could have escaped if he'd had his wits about him. A ship that can cruise around nine galaxies must be able to outrun a few Earth missiles, and he might even have been able to eject the polyhedron if he'd thought about it.
Of course, the Doctor didn't give him very much time to think about it.
I love Rory's dad - and I was impressed by how quickly it was possible to care about a tricerotops.
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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
Posts: 3710 | From: Hay-on-Wye, town of books | Registered: Aug 2003
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I was absolutely giddy about the pet triceratops, because I have had a thing about them since was six.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Going back to Solomon's death, is this the first time we've seen the Doctor murder a human? In nu-Who we've seen him happily destroy thousands of Cybermen when he's having a bad day, but humans have been in a different category I think.
He planted a live grenade in the Graf Vynda-K's pocket in The Ribos Operation. He poisoned Solon with cyanide in The Brain of Morbius (although he may not have intended to kill him). If you count Androgums as human, he also poisoned Shockeye in The Two Doctors. I'm sure there must be others.
And, if we are talking humanoid life forms and genocide, there is that exchange from The Doctor's Wife:
House: "Fear me, I've killed thousands of Time Lords."
Doctor: "Fear me. I killed them all."
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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The Revolutionist
Shipmate
# 4578
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Going back to Solomon's death, is this the first time we've seen the Doctor murder a human? In nu-Who we've seen him happily destroy thousands of Cybermen when he's having a bad day, but humans have been in a different category I think.
(By "human" I really mean "anything that looks human, no matter what planet it comes from". Sadly there is an inbuilt racism in Who, stretching right back to the first series. An alien that looks human can be reckoned to be good and will get much better treatment than an alien who looks, well, alien. The latter will most often be the bad guy.)
According to one of the Doctor Who novels, "The Oncoming Storm", the name from Dalek legend for the Doctor, actually translates to "Nice guy, if you're a biped".
Posts: 1296 | From: London | Registered: May 2003
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
Someone said earlier that Matt Smith works better with a larger cast. I think that's because he is very good at appearing to be unaware of half of what's going on around him and then whirling round and revealing that he can see everything, he has made unexpected links between incidents and he does, in fact, have a plan.
That's exactly why I made him Woody. In order to be Woody, you have to be surrounded by people who are under the impression that you are clueless.
Come to think of it, Smith seems like a natural Samwise who is playing a Frodo, and the combination is galvanizing.
[tangent]Frodo never was the real hero of the story, anyway, IMO.)[/tangent]
[ 11. September 2012, 16:28: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
House: "Fear me, I've killed thousands of Time Lords."
Doctor: "Fear me. I killed them all."
In my view the most chilling line from Dr Who. And it was said by the cuddly Doctor.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
That's the really interesting thing about this Doctor. With previous incarnations, you could probably guess how likely they would be to throw a punch (1, 2, 5, and 10 probably wouldn't, 3 and 4 would, and it's hard to see 9 doing anything else); 11, however, seems very silly, very manic, and very friendly—but there's a definite dark, calculating, and cruel side. We get hints of it all the time, granted, and it's pretty clear the Doctor himself is very aware of this fact, but to actually see him be cool and efficient in killing off his enemies? It's still a bit chilling. If 9 was dealing with survivor's guilt, and 10 with having committed genocide, 11 seems coming to terms with the fact that the part of him that has tried to kill off multiple races multiple times is still with him, and a little more ready to come out and go to work than he'd really like to let on.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
It is one of those scenes where I really see how great Smith is in the role. When I first saw it, I thought he was too light-hearted about it and I thought "Tennant would do this better"--because I was thinking of Tennant's approach in "School Reunion" when, with a lot of menace and darkness he says: "I used to be so full of mercy...Now you get one warning. That was it." I wanted the "I killed them all" line to be said the same way.
But then I re-watched the episode. And Smith was right. He says it quickly and tries to be off-handed about it--and fails. Because of how he presents the line, you sense how much it hurts the Doctor that he did what he did. Earlier in the episode, Amy mentions that he is chasing the Time Lord voices because he wants to be forgiven--and she is right. Smith's reading of the line is perfect: A man who wants to be forgiven for what he has done--but can't be, because they are all dead, Dave. He tries to hide it by treating it lightly. Compare with his anger at the Silurian who tried to bluff that she was the "last" of her kind--the 11th Doctor angrily calls her out on it. She is not allowed to claim to be the last because he knows what it means to be the last and it hurts.
The 9th Doctor had survivor's guilt. The 11th Doctor just has guilt, combined with the knowledge (gained when he had the chance to allow the Time Lords to return in his 10th incarnation) that he would do the same thing over again if need be.
When Amy came on board the TARDIS, she suggested that all that suffering just made the Doctor kind--but it didn't. And he knows that it didn't. The 11th Doctor is very much afraid of himself and what he is capable of doing if he needs to. Now wonder that he seems so mercurial in temperament. He is on the verge of a nervous breakdown.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
The 9th Doctor had survivor's guilt. The 11th Doctor just has guilt, combined with the knowledge (gained when he had the chance to allow the Time Lords to return in his 10th incarnation) that he would do the same thing over again if need be.
When Amy came on board the TARDIS, she suggested that all that suffering just made the Doctor kind--but it didn't. And he knows that it didn't. The 11th Doctor is very much afraid of himself and what he is capable of doing if he needs to. Now wonder that he seems so mercurial in temperament. He is on the verge of a nervous breakdown.
Excellent.
When I saw the title of the Episode "Asylum of the Daleks" I honestly thought he was going to wind up a patient somehow-- And I thought, "Finally."
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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angelica37
Shipmate
# 8478
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Posted
I loved the triceratops, and Rory's dad. Slightly disappointed with Nefertiti ending up with whatsisname in his tent though surely she would have taken him home as as souvenir rather than the other way round.
Posts: 1351 | From: Suffolk | Registered: Sep 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I'm telling myself it's one-night stand (or however that works out in the space-time continuum.)
[ 12. September 2012, 07:13: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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