Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Doctor Who: (again) Winter 2012
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by art dunce: quote: Originally posted by Ariston: Two questions, as I use my special Overanalyzing Ray on things:
1. So Clara doesn't have a TARDIS key. We're three episodes and multiple adventures in to her tenure, and still no key. Most companions in NuHu have gotten theirs first episode—"hello, I'm the Doctor, oh, have to save the world, okay, problem solved, welcome, here's your key." We saw him give it to Clara 0.2 right before she got tossed off the cloud, so we have reason to believe that, if she weren't known to be Weird, she'd already have one. So...where's her key? Why hasn't the Doctor given her one yet? And what's the significance of all this?
2. Okay, so back in "Asylum," all the way at the beginning of this season, Oswin in her audio journal mentions "it's my mum's birthday. Happy birthday, mum; I made you a soufflé, but it was too beautiful to live." Clara's mum is, well, dead. Is this another bit of rhetorical "talking to the dead" (her speech changes cadence, if you listen carefully), or something else in the foreshadowing/Clara's Weird department?
He gave her one in the Christmas special. And did he ever give Amy or Rory one?
1. Christmas special=Snowmen=Clara 0.2. We're on...Clara 1? Clara 0.3? Clara π? I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
2. You know, I could have sworn Amy got hers in "The Beast Below," but now that I check the TARDIS wiki, it seems that didn't happen. Seeing as the data core has EVERYTHING on it, I'm guessing it was only Rose, Jack, Martha, and Donna who got keys. So much for my memory.
-------------------- “Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Ariston: 1. So Clara doesn't have a TARDIS key. We're three episodes and multiple adventures in to her tenure, and still no key. Most companions in NuHu have gotten theirs first episode—"hello, I'm the Doctor, oh, have to save the world, okay, problem solved, welcome, here's your key." We saw him give it to Clara 0.2 right before she got tossed off the cloud, so we have reason to believe that, if she weren't known to be Weird, she'd already have one. So...where's her key? Why hasn't the Doctor given her one yet? And what's the significance of all this?
Several of the questions on this thread along the 'what's up with Clara's development?' line may have the same very unexciting real world answer: this is the first story that 'modern' Clara filmed. This script was also one of the first written - at the very least, it was written before 'The Rings of Akhaten' by the same writer.
-------------------- Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
Clara argued her way into the Tardis without a key so perhaps she doesn't need one.
Besides, if you are running away from a monster and looking to hide in the Tardis isn't fumbling for a key going to slow down your escape? In the Library Planet story (I think) the Doctor worked it so the door would open when he clicked his fingers. That was cool.
-------------------- If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Longshanks
Apprentice
# 16259
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by The Rogue: Clara argued her way into the Tardis without a key so perhaps she doesn't need one.
Besides, if you are running away from a monster and looking to hide in the Tardis isn't fumbling for a key going to slow down your escape?
I think the keys have some sort of remote action (which car keys are catching up) but May be you don't need one if you follow the doctor in?. Or should I accept my theory has fallen to pieces and stop digging.
Posts: 8 | From: Great Wen | Registered: Feb 2011
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
No, do keep digging and working on your theory. By doing that sometimes you stumble on a truth by accident and at the end of the series, when everything is revealed (well, some of it), you can award yourself with a
-------------------- If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
Are you kidding me? Cooking up/working out absurd theories is half the fun of discussing Who. This thread must look to non-Whovians like the cricket thread does to me. I'm scared now.
-------------------- “Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Quotes file.
-------------------- I cannot expect people to believe “ Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.” Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
Is anyone else reading the e-books which Puffin are publishing for the 50th anniversary?
Yes, they're Puffin, which means they are officially kids' books, but who cares!
There will be eleven books over eleven months. Some info is here:
Doctor Who Puffin books
I enjoyed the first one, although perhaps more for the storyline, which (shhh... spoilers!) drew on a source I liked already.
Not so thrilled with the second, although I did like the way in which the baddie was defeated in a way only Jamie could accomplish. The characters of the 2nd Doctor and Jamie were well written - it was just the particular baddie I found a little uninvolving.
The third was pretty good, although when Jo was described as 'quick-witted' it did surprise me... Some nice humour in this one.
The fourth is my favourite so far (unsurprisingly perhaps, as Tom Baker was 'my Doctor'). The companion is Leela. The plot has echoes of Leela's first meeting with the Doctor, which is probably deliberate. However, Leela doesn't make reference to this at all. Perhaps the author didn't want to throw too much unfamiliar stuff at the reader.
However, I do love the narrative voices for both the Doctor and Leela. Reading the story, I could hear it in my mind in their voices, and it fitted perfectly.
Some lovely little jokes too, such as Leela's line which goes something like:
"It will not hurt you. It is called a scarf. A little like a cloak, but pointless." Anyone else reading these?
-------------------- *sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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Athrawes
Ship's parrot
# 9594
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Posted
Thank you, I am now. Not so keen on the first, although I did like the story, just not the way it was written. I am enjoying the second so far.
-------------------- Explaining why is going to need a moment, since along the way we must take in the Ancient Greeks, the study of birds, witchcraft, 19thC Vaudeville and the history of baseball. Michael Quinion.
Posts: 2966 | From: somewhere with a book shop | Registered: Jun 2005
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Gill H: Doctor Who Puffin books
This crashed when I tried to load it, but not before I'd seen:
"Fourth Doctor. The Roots of Evil. Out Now" and a picture of a man with wild-looking hair.
I assume this is the well-known story of the Fourth Doctor and his quest to find the one hairdresser in the galaxy who could do something about the roots of evil.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
I was expecting this week's episode to start explaining things, or at least providing some background. I was disappointed.
Still not sure what I think about it as a story. It felt a bit flimsy, but it might still reward a second viewing with some hidden gems and subtle details.
-------------------- The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
It reminded me of Warrior's Gate. This is a good thing. I am less sure about flipping the reset switch. There was a narrative logic to it, but reset switches always make the foregoing events seem a bit pointless.
-------------------- we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Inanna
Ship's redhead
# 538
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Posted
Interesting episode and definitely one to re-watch tomorrow. Is this twice now that the current Clara should have died but didn't - once from the wi-fi spoonhead thing, and now being burned up in the TARDIS? Don't quite get why they turned into zombie things rather than just being dead ... definitely need for a repeat viewing.
I was very happy that we got to see the swimming pool. And would happily spend a long, long time in the library. Forget seeing all of time and space... I'll just curl up here with a book. (I guess that's why the Doctor has yet to choose me as his companion. My priorities are all wrong )
Posts: 1495 | From: Royal Oak, MI | Registered: Jun 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I thought it was an interesting episode, and it is always interesting to see more of the Tardis. I was interested in the doctors comment that the Tardis is "infinite", which is a new idea, I think. I know it is huge, but infinite is new.
The idea of simply turning the day back was a cop-out. Very disappointed. He never resolved the problem, just made it not happen, which is wrong. I would like to have seen him actually sort it out, put the heart of the Tardis back somehow.
The timeline crossovers were fun. Always.
-------------------- Blog Music for your enjoyment Lord may all my hard times be healing times take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Dormouse
Glis glis Ship's rodent
# 5954
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Posted
I didn't like it...If the "monsters" were burned up Clara etc why did they kill the "people" in a nasty way? Why didn't they try to warn them or something about what was going to happen, instead of skulking menacingly? The resolution was disappointing and I wasn't engaged at all. And this is from somebody who NEVER thinks too hard about Doctor Who episodes and RARELY sees the blatently obvious plot holes that everyone else sees!
-------------------- What are you doing for Lent? 40 days, 40 reflections, 40 acts of generosity. Join the #40acts challenge for #Lent and let's start a movement. www.40acts.org.uk
Posts: 3042 | From: 'twixt les Bois Noirs & Les Monts de la Madeleine | Registered: May 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
I just watched.
Absurd and pointless. I didn't believe the whole monster business for a second. And the rods shooting out were ridiculous.
The Tardis being upset at being tampered with, that at least I could believe.
-------------------- Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat: I thought it was an interesting episode, and it is always interesting to see more of the Tardis. I was interested in the doctors comment that the Tardis is "infinite", which is a new idea, I think. I know it is huge, but infinite is new.
I seem to recall that during the 4th Doctor's time there were references to the TARDIS being infinite--although I can't recall which story, exactly. What I do recall is that, in Castrovalva the newly regenerated 5th Doctor needed extra power and gets it by "deleting a quarter of the TARDIS architecture." I remember some fans trying to get their heads around the thought that you could take away a quarter of something that was infinite. It never bothered me. There are an infinite number of fractions between 0 and 1, but you can still subtract one-quarter of 1.
But, honestly, "infinite" can be just short hand for Really Tremendously Huge. Rather like Space.
As for the story itself, my feelings are pretty much like the rest of you. Lame ending. The only take-away I have is the concept of the Doctor's name being raised, and him being almost angry about it. Moff does seem obsessed about the Doctor's name.
-------------------- "We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
Did anyone else wonder whether the character of Bram was meant to be, shall we say, "like that" or whether it was simply some of the worst acting ever seen on Doctor Who?
-------------------- For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Posts: 3149 | From: Bottom right hand corner of the UK | Registered: Mar 2002
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by doubtingthomas: quote: Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist: quote: Originally posted by Gill H: A blue crystal from Metebilis 3, eh? And last week we had an Ice Warrior. And the week before, they went somewhere the Doctor had visited with his granddaughter.
Hmmm...
Even more interesting when looked at in the episode order
There are 4 episodes left in this series, which could cover the rest of the classic incarnations...
BTW, thoroughly enjoyed this one!
I really liked this theory, so had my eyes peeled for a Tom Baker reference. However I didn't spot anything; all I found was McCoy's umbrella. Did any of you see something I missed? (A mate reckons the spilt bottles in the Library were a reference to Baker's fondness for booze, but I think that is stretching things too far!)
-------------------- Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Dormouse: If the "monsters" were burned up Clara etc why did they kill the "people" in a nasty way? Why didn't they try to warn them or something about what was going to happen, instead of skulking menacingly?
I think their higher brain functions were burned out and they were mad with pain and there was probably some nasty time paradox stuff going on there as well. I'm not sure how much support that has in the dialogue.
-------------------- we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Robert Armin: I really liked this theory, so had my eyes peeled for a Tom Baker reference. However I didn't spot anything; all I found was McCoy's umbrella.
AIUI the other two stories that feature substantial running around inside the TARDIS corridors are The Doctor's Wife and Invasion of Time: the latter is a Tom Baker story.
-------------------- we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Dafyd: I am less sure about flipping the reset switch. There was a narrative logic to it, but reset switches always make the foregoing events seem a bit pointless.
However, the reset switch here was set up from the start, and a central plot point rather then an easy solution. It is a rather metatextual kind of point, and this is flagged at the start of the episode, when Clara complains about events breaching the rules of story-telling, and again at the end by the explicit naming of the device as Big Friendly Button.
Also, unlike your run-of-the-mill dramatic reset button, this one does not render preceding events meaningless - the Doctor tells the brothers to remember, and indeed, things upon the salvage ship have subtly changed when time restarta. Memory seems to be one of the running themes of this season, so this may be more significant than it first appears.
Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
On the 4th Dr idea, Invasion of Time does have an episode running around the inside of the big big Tardis (including Swimming Pool).
I'm not sure if that distinguishes it from e.g. Edge of Destruction (although even then they clearly have rooms) or the one with the 'House'. [cross post] [ 28. April 2013, 18:41: Message edited by: Jay-Emm ]
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
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doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498
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Posted
There was a fair bit of TARDIS interior in Castrovalva as well, I seem to remember. Plus, I just realise, that episode had a number Escher-like looping architecture (althiough in that case, outside the TARDIS)... are we getting ahead of ourselves here
It may be worth looking at this discussion, for 4th Doctor references and other details:
http://parrot-knight.livejournal.com/945652.html
-------------------- 'We are star-stuff. We are the Universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out' Delenn (Babylon 5)
Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I liked Castrovalva, though I haven't seen it for ages - they had to put the Doctor in the Zero Room to aid his regeneration, I think. Didn't that room get jettisoned in a later episode, along with a few others, for some reason?
Missed last night's episode but The Telegraph slated it, so I'm not sure if I did miss much.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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The Machine Elf
Irregular polytope
# 1622
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Posted
So far the TARDIS has blown up twice, both times with a lady driver. I'm not sure there's a pattern here, but if so it's not of my making.
I'm kind of assuming the toastees were trying to prevent the pre-toastees from getting to the point it time they were toast.
Also, sometime in the Christopher Eccleston incarnation, I'm sure there was a mention that mauve was the Time Lord colour for danger, but red was the colour for camp.
(edit: pressed ok on send rather than url) [ 28. April 2013, 21:09: Message edited by: The Machine Elf ]
-------------------- Elves of any kind are strange folk.
Posts: 1298 | From: the edge of the deep green sea | Registered: Oct 2001
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Roseofsharon
Shipmate
# 9657
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Robert Armin: had my eyes peeled for a Tom Baker reference. However I didn't spot anything; all I found was McCoy's umbrella.
I admit here that I don't remember anything from previous Doctors (nor previous episodes of the current Doctor, for that matter) but that little scene at 11m25 was reminiscent of the sets from very early series and I hoped that it was going to contain 'souvenirs' from previous regenerations. At first I thought the umbrella was McCoy's but the handle was a perfectly normal one, not ? shaped - or did McCoy have more than one brolly? (I wasn't watching Who during that period).
-------------------- Talk about books -any books- on our rejuvenatedforum http://www.bookgrouponline.com/index.php?
Posts: 3060 | From: Sussex By The Sea | Registered: Jun 2005
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by The Machine Elf: I'm kind of assuming the toastees were trying to prevent the pre-toastees from getting to the point it time they were toast.
The reverse I think: the toastees are creatures of the timeline in which they got made and are trying to bring that timeline into existence. Hence they were trying to trap everyone in the room where they got made. [ 28. April 2013, 21:47: Message edited by: Dafyd ]
-------------------- we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
The Tardis blew up occasionally in the old series as well. At least once, anyway.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
It kind of blew up in The Mind Robber which I just watched (season 5 from the 1960s). I'm pretty sure that's the first time. It certainly got my attention.
-------------------- Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
It might have been me (still haven't rewatched, remiss of me but I have a lot going on right now), but it seemed that even more dialogue than usual was barely audible gabbled shouting over background noise and/or overloud music. I don't mind when it's just "do this, then that" in fluent technobabble, but I think it was generally quite important to the plot in this case.
-------------------- The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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vascopyjama
Shipmate
# 1953
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Posted
Robert Armin... me too. Looking for Tom Baker references. Must admit I thought the zombie ex claras looked a lot like jelly babies...
-------------------- Behold the duck. The scent of a wet dog. The familiar ahh of your own bed. Things to ponder.
Posts: 298 | From: The Sea of Turbidity | Registered: Dec 2001
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Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by The Great Gumby: It might have been me (still haven't rewatched, remiss of me but I have a lot going on right now), but it seemed that even more dialogue than usual was barely audible gabbled shouting over background noise and/or overloud music. I don't mind when it's just "do this, then that" in fluent technobabble, but I think it was generally quite important to the plot in this case.
No, it wasn't just you, GG, I couldn't hear half of it either. I know I'm a grumpy old bag, but I am getting increasingly irritated by inaudible dialogue, not just here but in other programmes too. I'm sure I used to be able to hear what Matt Smith said in the first seasons .
-------------------- Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by The Great Gumby: It might have been me (still haven't rewatched, remiss of me but I have a lot going on right now), but it seemed that even more dialogue than usual was barely audible gabbled shouting over background noise and/or overloud music. I don't mind when it's just "do this, then that" in fluent technobabble, but I think it was generally quite important to the plot in this case.
Dr Who is one of the programs I routinely watch with the subtitles on. I'm sure my hearing has deteriorated a little over the years but I'm equally sure that it's partly the way they mix it.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
I'm afraid I didn't much like this week's episode. Well - I really, really liked about a third of it, and really, really disliked the rest. I seriously think the producers and writers have forgotten how to tell a story. For doing just that, Cold War is looking better and better as the weeks pass.
-------------------- "What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I think it is fair to say that this series has, so far, not being inspiring. I know that sometimes it taken an episode or two before a series really takes off, but in this case it is taking even longer.
I really hope that it manages to shine eventually.
-------------------- Blog Music for your enjoyment Lord may all my hard times be healing times take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
Yes, I think Steven Moffatt has said that the last episode will be 'game changing' or 'paradigm shifting' or some such.
It fills me with something akin to dread*.
M.
*'Dread' seemed a bit major for a telly programme, even Doctor Who.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by M.: Yes, I think Steven Moffatt has said that the last episode will be 'game changing' or 'paradigm shifting' or some such.
It fills me with something akin to dread*.
M.
*'Dread' seemed a bit major for a telly programme, even Doctor Who.
I don't mind that so much, and it's sadly the way of things that new companions tend to have a few early stinkers as they settle in and the writers try to make sure we know that they're different people, like the predictable wrinkles in the first series of any new show when groundrules need to be set out properly before graduating to the interesting stories and fun stuff. The last run of the Ponds was so good because we knew them, and we didn't need to be told anything else.
The problem here is that it seems so much time and effort is put into hinting and foreshadowing that the actual stories are in danger of becoming secondary, which is the big no-no. Story arcs, foreshadowing and in-jokes are all lovely, but if the individual episodes don't stack up as stories, it's all just froth and hot air.
I'm hopeful that this is still just the usual bedding in process, because the last three episodes of the series all sound like they could be very good indeed.
-------------------- The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
I just go back to the 60s for solace - or at least, variety as they have some questionable stories back then as well. Watched The Invasion yesterday. Rather good!
There's a golden moment in one episode when the villain's constantly calm exterior suddenly drops and he explodes with rage.
-------------------- Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
The Great Gumby: quote: The problem here is that it seems so much time and effort is put into hinting and foreshadowing that the actual stories are in danger of becoming secondary, which is the big no-no. Story arcs, foreshadowing and in-jokes are all lovely, but if the individual episodes don't stack up as stories, it's all just froth and hot air.
Since the series restarted all the stories have felt to me like oneoffs, without any connection to each other (while still being all froth and hot air). I thought the Doctor was on a quest to find out who Clara was, but there doesn't seem to have been much of that happening. It's a real shame, especially as I am enjoying Clara, and think she makes a fine companion.
-------------------- Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Robert Armin: I thought the Doctor was on a quest to find out who Clara was, but there doesn't seem to have been much of that happening. It's a real shame, especially as I am enjoying Clara, and think she makes a fine companion.
So far the Doctor's taken Clara to her first alien world (after researching her family), arrived in the wrong place, consulted a psychic about Clara, and tried to get her and the TARDIS to make friends. So there hasn't been a lot of not trying to find out who she is. Clara herself as a companion showed a bit more character traits this week. Though they were not quite the ones that Moffat's been writing. I still think she's the most generic companion we've had so far.
These last five episodes are being pretty consistent. The worst episode was Cold War and that was merely Doctor Who by numbers. Journey to the Heart of the TARDIS was I think the best: perhaps not a great character piece, but it delivered lots of weird things on the screen and that's what the premise asks for.
-------------------- we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Dafyd: quote: Originally posted by Robert Armin: I thought the Doctor was on a quest to find out who Clara was, but there doesn't seem to have been much of that happening. It's a real shame, especially as I am enjoying Clara, and think she makes a fine companion.
So far the Doctor's taken Clara to her first alien world (after researching her family), arrived in the wrong place, consulted a psychic about Clara, and tried to get her and the TARDIS to make friends. So there hasn't been a lot of not trying to find out who she is.
Agreed. And if I am interpreting the scenes from this coming week correctly, he is next going to take her back to the Victorian-ish time of Prior Dead Clara. I doubt that that is by accident. He is taking her there in the hope of uncovering some clue as to a connection between them. And it beats going back to Crazy Dalek World.
-------------------- "We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
Short version: I liked it, even if the ending was a letdown. Not that I think everything in Who stays forgotten, or locked in its own little parallel dimension, or on the right side of cracks in time (seriously, am I the only one picking up serious Amy Pond references in this episode? Was I the only one hoping that Clara had to confront her future selves--after all, if they killed her before she became them, instaparadox, zombies go away--cf Angels Take Manhattan for how that trope works), and it's a matter of time before a girl who decides to read a dense book of history *while being chased by zombies* goes back to the library. Oh, and why does the Doctor have a book laying out on display that only he could have written, one that explains who he is and what he did? Maybe he secretly wants someone to find it, but can't admit it--so it's a treasure hunt, with a reward only for those who care.
But. Erasure. Once again, the Doctor plays the game of secrets, protecting himself from ever having to confront any other who knows what he did and who he really is. He keeps dodging responsibility. Always has, really. Running off, leaving his people and the Prydonian chapter "with their bad fashion sense and funny hats" behind (there's your Baker era reference, by the way), a renegade who never accepted the responsibilities of Time Lord life. So how could he face Clara's judgment? Every other companion got his version of the Time War--okay, and maybe some of Davros'--but never the full, uncut, comprehensive confessional history. Clara has the knowledge to judge him, to objectify him, to hold a power to call him good or bad, forgiven or unjustified. How can someone who runs from responsibility accept that? Of course he presses the Big Magic Button--as much for his sake as for that of saving everyone. It's his reset button too. So I would have LOVED to have seen Clara placed in a position of power no other companion has ever known. Here's the governess, the nanny, the barmaid, the junior entertainment officer, the woman who looks after the needs of others, suddenly seeing just how impossibly needy this absurd alien man probably really is. Killer of his own people, aware of how evil they became, knowing how it all ends for those he once loved. So he avoids the issue. Again. Pity. Clara might have forgiven him--or showed him how to forgive himself at long last.
Okay, unrelated: references. I got a strong Pan's Labyrinth vibe from this whole thing, but Last Crusade? You come to the end of the hallway, face the chasm...look, I wasn't shocked when he jumped, only that there wasn't a camouflaged beam underneath. Come to think of it, has anyone spotted Temple of Doom references lately?
-------------------- “Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
You know, the more I watch 60s Doctor Who, the more I realise how often they're mining it in the Matt Smith years for ideas.
Blow me down, the central idea of The Krotons is pretty much the same as the central idea of The Lodger in modern season 5. And from what I've just read, the original script of The Krotons had almost exactly the same notion as the later story.
-------------------- Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
Ariston - good point that, even while being chased by zombies, Clara can't resist reading a big, inviting book in a frankly gorgeous library.
My kind of girl!
My parents had to put the cereal into plastic containers because I spent so long reading the box in the mornings. "Mum, what's Riboflavin?"
-------------------- *sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Dafyd: quote: Originally posted by Robert Armin: I thought the Doctor was on a quest to find out who Clara was, but there doesn't seem to have been much of that happening. It's a real shame, especially as I am enjoying Clara, and think she makes a fine companion.
So far the Doctor's taken Clara to her first alien world (after researching her family), arrived in the wrong place, consulted a psychic about Clara, and tried to get her and the TARDIS to make friends. So there hasn't been a lot of not trying to find out who she is. Clara herself as a companion showed a bit more character traits this week. Though they were not quite the ones that Moffat's been writing. I still think she's the most generic companion we've had so far.
I think you're both right. There's development of Clara, of who she is and what the Doctor's doing about it, but it also feels rather crowbarred in. It feels as if the individual story and ongoing character development are being worked on separately and then stitched together so badly that you can see the joins. A few shots of the Doctor staring at a screen and looking worried, muttering "who are you?" does not a storyline make. It's taking time to develop and build suspense, and I can live with that, but it still feels a little artificial.
I think/hope we may see Clara become a truly rounded character once we actually know who/what she is, but I wouldn't call her generic. She's just a new character who we can't fully understand because *spoilers*. There hasn't been enough time yet to paint her in broad strokes, and the one thing that will eventually mark her out from the others is the Big Secret that hasn't been revealed yet.
-------------------- The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Ariston: Oh, and why does the Doctor have a book laying out on display that only he could have written, one that explains who he is and what he did?
The TARDIS could have written it. Or it could have been written by someone in the future; we know the TARDIS is storing console rooms that haven't been created yet. There are options.
-------------------- we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
For anyone who's been following the TARDIS Eruditorum, it's just emerged from the Doctor Who wilderness years with a gorgeous analysis of Rose.
-------------------- "What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Athrawes
Ship's parrot
# 9594
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Posted
I enjoyed it more the second time around - it made a lot more sense, especially with Ariston's comments about secrets. Clara didn't seem to be terribly bright in this episode though. In previous episodes she's been very quick to understand people, but here she seemed a little dense.
I would like to know what the meaning of the bottles labelled "Encyclopaedia Gallifrey" is, though. They seemed to release voices of some sort.
-------------------- Explaining why is going to need a moment, since along the way we must take in the Ancient Greeks, the study of birds, witchcraft, 19thC Vaudeville and the history of baseball. Michael Quinion.
Posts: 2966 | From: somewhere with a book shop | Registered: Jun 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Adeodatus: For anyone who's been following the TARDIS Eruditorum, it's just emerged from the Doctor Who wilderness years with a gorgeous analysis of Rose.
Well, seeing as how I watch modern and classic Doctor Who in parallel, I decided I could read modern and classic Tardis Eruditorum in parallel as well...
That was rather good. Although insanely long. But I suppose that kind of length is justified when you're talking about the moment of transformative revival of a long-dead TV show.
-------------------- Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
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