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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Doctor Who: (again) Winter 2012
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
Where was Nine?
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Well and good, he didn't turn out to be Martin Smith from Croydon.
I thought the Whisper Men were a good touch. That kind of rhyme, half chanted, half whispered, is effective, and they were suitably nightmarish.
Enjoyable episode (though I wish it had been a little less messianic) and I particularly liked the twist at the very end. I think I can guess what character that is. November will be interesting.
[ 18. May 2013, 18:54: Message edited by: Ariel ]
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Stumbling Pilgrim
Shipmate
# 7637
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
Where was Nine?
Thought I saw a glimpse of a leather jacket as all the Doctors ran by her, just before he said 'every good day, every bad day', and as the voices came out of the breached timeline there was one that said 'absolutely fantastic' in a northern accent. Didn't see either Nine or Ten during her 'I was born to save the Doctor' speech though.
So having 'saved' her, where was he taking her? Is there a way out of one's own timeline? (I don't do timey-wimey very well, it makes my head hurt very quickly)
I like the idea of all that remains of the Doctor being the energy generated by his actions. Still got a lot to process though, think I need to watch again and have a good think. (I'll probably still be thinking by November ...)
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Stumbling in the Master's footsteps as best I can.
Posts: 492 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2004
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
I suspect we won't see them escape and the next story will start with them in "normality"
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
That was a lot better than I was expecting. They have not killed the goose.
But I want to know how Clara got born to do her saving. That cannot have simply been random.
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Yes, I wanted to know that. Still, food for another episode. And nice to see River again.
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
I suspect we won't see them escape and the next story will start with them in "normality"
I'm not so sure, it's clearly a lead into the 'special' in some way. But whether starting outside or fighting to get out...(perhaps with vignettes)
Did like the links back and the footage.
I think the 'born to save the Dr' is for Clara original a stable time loop (she has to be born to be soufle girl, etc..)
For Claras(pl) she jumped into the Dr's history, split into a million lives in the right places to save the Dr. Each of them literally born to save the Doctor.
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Inanna
Ship's redhead
# 538
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Posted
I wish that they hadn't included the shot of Clara stepping into the Doctor's timestream on one of the trailers. Meant that as soon as he was explaining it to the Great Intellgence, Clara's next move - and secret - was obvious. Still, very nicely handled. Although did she recognize the Doctor when she was Dalek Oswin? I'm not sure if that was the case.
Loved Matt Smith's acting when Clara told him about Trenzalore and in his scene with River.
My guess is that John Hurt is sort of the Zero regeneration of the Doctor - before he left Galliftey and before he stole the TARDIS. By the way, did Clara's intervention undermine the TARDIS's claim that she stole him?
Posts: 1495 | From: Royal Oak, MI | Registered: Jun 2001
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
Or was the Tardis well aware of Clara's presence in the Doctor's time stream and so brought her along at that point somehow to point him the "right" way.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
A stupid, pointless mess. We still don't know the Doctor's name (which I didn't care about at all), or where Clara comes from (which I cared about very little), and none of the rest of the episode added up. The biggest anticlimax since Onan failed to impregnate Tamar.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
My problem with this series is that none of the episodes have been that great on their own. They've all been good but none really good. I think that's because all the way through the writers have been fixed on the overall story arc.
Having said that I like the set-up for the 50th anniversary.
Doctor 9 was there in the running sequence btw. IIRC in a sequence about the Master, the Doctor explains that the Time Lords choose their names - around the time they are exposed to the untempered schism. In choosing "The Doctor" he chooses what kind of man he will be. The reference to John Hurt's 'doctor' is therefore out of character with this. I really don't think they'll ever reveal the doctor's real name.
I think it's an interesting set-up. This current batch of writers are very interested in the darker side of the doctor's character. We see it in Donna's first episode when Donna has to stop him. We see it Amy's Choice when the doctor himself refers to it.
Whoever this not-Doctor is he is a part of the doctor's life he feels was so dark.
I had deliberately avoided the trailers so as not to spoil it. I think it hanged together quite nicely really and we may see more of Clara's back-story. I really liked the homage to the classic Who - even though I never watched it before the modern lot - I thought it really well done. (Will be interested to see is classic Who fans agree)
However mostly I think this episode - and in fact the whole series - is one big set-up to the 50th anniversary special. It all really hangs on that.
AFZ
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An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by alienfromzog:
Whoever this not-Doctor is he is a part of the doctor's life he feels was so dark.
My money's on the Valeyard.
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
My money's on the Valeyard.
The Valeyard was name-checked in the episode. (That doesn't make Trial of a Timelord canon though.)
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
Perhaps John Hurt is actually the ninth Doctor and he ended the Time War so the successive Doctors see him as the black sheep and don't talk about him. Thus Matt Smith is the twelfth Doctor.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
So I get that it's the 50th anniversary and everything but this show is really in danger of disappearing up its own mythology.
Matt Smith was good though.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
i agree with many - story arcs do interfere too much with stories.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Crazy Cat Lady
Shipmate
# 17616
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Posted
Can I pitch in?
My first Doctor was John Pertwee - as a kid I used to sit on the arm of Dad's chair watching a slot TV. I clearly remember The Green Death scaring the pants off me, despite the crappy fly at the end. It was the 70s, we were used to crap special effects anyway. I think The Golden Shot came on afterwards.
For Tom Baker's early years I was behind the sofa, with a glass of milk in case I had to stay there for a while. So yeh I do like the references to the classic series and I love the whole mythology thing and I especially love it when everything gets a bit dark. Am not up to speed with the Colin Baker years, cos I didn't connect with it and stopped watching. In some circles that means I cannot call myself a true fan
I agree the writing in this season was good but not brilliant, although I did really enjoy tonight. Can't wait for the Anniversary now!
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'They called me mad, and I called them mad, and damn them, they outvoted me!"
Nathaniel Lee
Posts: 52 | From: Suffolk | Registered: Mar 2013
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
I meant Eight... I know the TV movie was an abomination but Paul McGann is still canon (and pretty good in the Big Finish audios).
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
At last this thread and Dr Who coincide, they both made me cry. FFS.
This thread full of addicts longing for a fix of something they never had in the first place ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
Dr Who, clever, funny, thoughtful, great Sat night TV. (River ) Tonight and thhe whole series has been good stuff.
John Hurt Ha!
Awesome,
Fly Safe Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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tessaB
Shipmate
# 8533
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Posted
Loved it, loved it, loved it.
But deeply sad to think we will never see River again. She was so brilliant, both the character and the actor. Beautiful, witty, sharp, sexy and clever. What was not to love?
I have to say Matt Smith is a brilliant actor as well, the two of them together just worked so wonderfully.
I'm glad that the resolution of the 'impossible girl' showed her as both brave and clever. We need more brave clever women being shown on our screens.
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tessaB
eating chocolate to the glory of God
Holiday cottage near Rye
Posts: 1068 | From: U.K. | Registered: Sep 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Easily the best episode of the recent run. Simply for being so dark and moody and happening at a decent pace instead of rushing everything.
I'm both satisfied to an extent (as an explanation for Clara, it was a damn sight better than most of the explanations we've been getting, cf the stupid lava monsters in the Tardis a few episodes back) and completely intrigued by that final appearance. Maybe other people had known who was appearing, but I'd heard nothing.
I emphatically enjoyed the use of William Hartnell, Alex Kingston is always a joy, and while in some ways this was all just a setup for the 50th anniversary it felt like a very GOOD setup.
[ 19. May 2013, 03:33: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
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Athrawes
Ship's parrot
# 9594
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Posted
How did you see it so soon? It's not on here for another 3 hours, and I don't think iPlayer loads it until around 9 pm...
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Explaining why is going to need a moment, since along the way we must take in the Ancient Greeks, the study of birds, witchcraft, 19thC Vaudeville and the history of baseball. Michael Quinion.
Posts: 2966 | From: somewhere with a book shop | Registered: Jun 2005
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
UK broadcast 7 pm British Summer Time - basic timey-wimey stuff!
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
I loved it. It was a nice resolution to what Clara's been all about. It means we're not going to be kept hanging around another year or two with all the fans foaming at the mouth about Trenzalore and unasked questions. It was a nice piece of drama. It had Richard E Grant in it, who's always good value. It was a great set-up for the 50th anniversary. And it was a bit of Moffat doing what Moffat does best - getting in touch with his inner fan-boy.
And all the Doctors were there - including Eight and Nine, if only for a couple of frames.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I kept an eye out for my favourite Doctor (Davison) but have to take it on trust he was there as I didn't actually spot him. The Hartnell clip was well done, I thought. And I liked the idea of John Hurt at the end, as reverting to an older actor for the Doctor.
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
Is this the last of the Doctors?
With Smith as 11, and the Valyard reference as being the Doctor plus John Hurt we have 13 Doctors and all 12 regnerations.
Is there a future for the Doctor?
What number are the Valyard and John Hurt's Doctor, and do we have to renumber them all?
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Athrawes
Ship's parrot
# 9594
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
UK broadcast 7 pm British Summer Time - basic timey-wimey stuff!
Yes, but as far as I know, Orfeo is in Australia, and in the same time zone I am - hence the question.
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Explaining why is going to need a moment, since along the way we must take in the Ancient Greeks, the study of birds, witchcraft, 19thC Vaudeville and the history of baseball. Michael Quinion.
Posts: 2966 | From: somewhere with a book shop | Registered: Jun 2005
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
And it was a bit of Moffat doing what Moffat does best - getting in touch with his inner fan-boy.
But that's my problem. I get that fans enjoyed it and I'm happy for you I really am. But even though I grew up with Doctor Who, hiding behind the sofa during the Tom Baker years, I'm not the kind of fan that can talk about the old series. I have vague memories of giant rats in victorian sewers, a dis-embodied brain in a robot body, something green and tentacly engulfing a stately home and Bertie Bassett. But I don't know who "four" is without looking it up. I can't discuss whether "seven" was more cerebral than "two" who was more mischievous (or vice-versa).
When Who was re-launched in 2005 none of that mattered. They re-introduced the Doctor, who he was, what the TARDIS did and so on. And more importantly the episodes were mostly stand-alone complete stories. My memory is that it was like that in the old days too (the 4- or 6- parters were complete stories I mean). Of course someone may argue that they did these long arcs way back when too and I wouldn't be able to respond because I just don't know.
So it's the 50th anniversary and that is a big deal and so fair play you need to reference the past I guess. And if anyone enjoys anything[*] then far be it from me to tell them they're wrong. Didn't work for me but works for you? I'm happy for you, honestly. I just hope that after the 50th stuff dies down we can get some stories for the rest of us.
[*]apart from Morris Dancing obviously that's just wrong!
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
Is this the last of the Doctors?
With Smith as 11, and the Valyard reference as being the Doctor plus John Hurt we have 13 Doctors and all 12 regnerations.
Is there a future for the Doctor?
What number are the Valyard and John Hurt's Doctor, and do we have to renumber them all?
If I remember correctly, the Valeyard isn't a separate regeneration, but a distillation of the Dr's dark side which might occur somewhere around his 12th incarnation.
With regard to the 12 regeneration problem, there is this article from the Grundiad:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2010/oct/12/doctor-who-immortal-reveals-bbc
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
Apologies, double post. In Dr Who: The Five Doctors, the Master is offered a completely new regeneration cycle by Borusa in return for him helping the Doctor. Something like that could be worked into the plot, e.g. the Doctor being given more regenerations by the Time Lords to make him harder to defeat in the Time War.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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beatmenace
Shipmate
# 16955
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Posted
With respect to the Guardian - we now know the Doctor ISNT immortal.
I think the reference to the Valeyard was put in to suggest that the unknown Doctor (John Hurt) ISN'T the Valeyard as that is obviously not a secret, since other cultures have heard of him.
My inner fanboy would prefer it was - as that would be tidy and in keeping with established Who history - but this is typically Moffat , disarming the fans with a glut of continuity , while making sneaky changes to the mythos......
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"I'm the village idiot , aspiring to great things." (The Icicle Works)
Posts: 297 | From: Whitley Bay | Registered: Feb 2012
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Athrawes:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
UK broadcast 7 pm British Summer Time - basic timey-wimey stuff!
Yes, but as far as I know, Orfeo is in Australia, and in the same time zone I am - hence the question.
I fooled you with my cunning plan to watch the finale in California instead.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Athrawes
Ship's parrot
# 9594
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Posted
Ah! I didn't realise you had already left. Hope you're enjoying some warmer weather.
Having seen it now, I liked it a lot, but want to watch it again before commenting too much. River was very good, though, and the whole thing seems to hold together.
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Explaining why is going to need a moment, since along the way we must take in the Ancient Greeks, the study of birds, witchcraft, 19thC Vaudeville and the history of baseball. Michael Quinion.
Posts: 2966 | From: somewhere with a book shop | Registered: Jun 2005
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Athrawes:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
UK broadcast 7 pm British Summer Time - basic timey-wimey stuff!
Yes, but as far as I know, Orfeo is in Australia, and in the same time zone I am - hence the question.
Sorry, I didn't realise the question was specifically addressed.
[ 19. May 2013, 11:55: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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Eigon
Shipmate
# 4917
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Posted
The way I rationalise the regeneration problem is that, back in the days when the Time Lords were running things, there was a 12 regeneration limit. Now the Time Lords and Gallifrey are out of the picture, I think that the Doctor can exceed the 12 regeneration limit - but he will never know ahead of time whether he will regenerate or if he really will die for good this time.
So each time he risks death it really might be final for him.
By the way, did anyone catch the Sherlock reference? Where he muses that he thought he might have retired and taken up beekeeping?
And I love the idea that Strax spends his weekends off going up to Glasgow and picking fights with the locals!
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Posts: 3710 | From: Hay-on-Wye, town of books | Registered: Aug 2003
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
The Christmas special told us that Madame Vastra is Sherlock Holmes.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I did quite enjoy this episode, not least because of the inclusion of so many of the previous doctors (maybe all, I am not going to comment). And it did explain Clara very well, which was excellent. I think it still leaves some major questions, but that is the Who way.
I did wonder whether they are working on a way to extend the possible regenerations, and allow the series to go on beyond the 12 regenerations allowed. I have a suspicion that, somehow, they are enabling more regenerations, but it is not yet explained.
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Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Ondergard
Shipmate
# 9324
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Posted
As someone who was watching with interest the very first broadcast of the very first series of Dr Who - you know, the one which should have been broadcast the night they shot Kennedy, and the night that C S Lewis and Aldous Huxley died - I have to say that the recent series' of Dr Who have been really, really, disappointing.
I adored William Hartnell's Doctor, was amused by Troughton, not enamoured of Pertwee, was completely transfixed by Tom Baker (I still have the scarf), hated the Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy years - both too twee and fey, apart from when Adric snuffed it - and found Peter the Ex-Vet just a bit too Public School let out to play with the plebs to connect with.
When the whole thing was resurrected with McGann in the New Year special I thought he could have made something of it, but then they gave it to the completely brilliant, and not-to-be-criticised Christopher Eccleston, who welded everything I liked about all the Doctors I had liked into a northern carcass ("Lots of planets have got a north!" - brilliant!). I even liked David Tennant although I wasn't expecting that I would, still mourning Eccleston. Matt Smith, though? I can take or leave him... but why?
Because, in my view, the whole thing has been gradually disappearing up the Time Lord's dung funnel, story wise. Recently, it has always been all about the Doctor, not all about the stories the Doctor of which he has been part, which it always used to be (outlandishly, or not). Virtually every new story is the same story, with just a change of nemesis - but they have all been about someone trying to destroy the Doctor, about his importance to the Universe - it hasn't been about the story at all - it's been about the story maker.. and that is not just not right, it's too unremittingly deep, too unswervingly dense and too much about the mechanics - too much about the why of the who, rather than the what.
So, it is now leaving me cold - and cold people get bored, and start picking holes, not investing in the story, and rejecting the absurdities one would otherwise embrace.
Moffat and co should stop telling everyone how clever they are - we know that already - and get back to telling stories. We know they can tell stories (cf The Silence in The Library, and Blink, the two best episodes of the modern era) - I just wish that they'd get back to doing it, instead of obsessing about the story maker.
Posts: 276 | From: Essex | Registered: Apr 2005
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Roseofsharon
Shipmate
# 9657
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ondergard:
As someone who was watching with interest the very first broadcast of the very first series of Dr Who ...
<snip> ... Moffat and co should stop telling everyone how clever they are - we know that already - and get back to telling stories. We know they can tell stories (cf The Silence in The Library, and Blink, the two best episodes of the modern era) - I just wish that they'd get back to doing it, instead of obsessing about the story maker.
That pretty well sums up my 'history' with The Doctor, except that I more or less stopped watching with any regularity or interest after Tom Baker.
Loved the New Who to start with, and have liked all the regenerations so far - just not the way the stories have developed.
These last few episodes have been really disappointing. Too fast and sketchy with no real story in them. I almost forgot to switch on a couple of times.
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Posts: 3060 | From: Sussex By The Sea | Registered: Jun 2005
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Hugal
Shipmate
# 2734
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Posted
I too would put a bob or two on JH being the Valyard, but that he is not really a proper Doctor. My gut says he a mix if the Docyor and the great intelligence. This he is not a real regeneration but a part of the Doctor.
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I have never done this trick in these trousers before.
Posts: 1887 | From: london | Registered: Apr 2002
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Hugal
Shipmate
# 2734
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Posted
Sorry to double post but the bad spelling of Doctor was due to small keys
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I have never done this trick in these trousers before.
Posts: 1887 | From: london | Registered: Apr 2002
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Ondergard
Shipmate
# 9324
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Posted
What is this Valyard tng? This seems to have passed me by... Likewise the Richard E Grant character. What's that, and the veiled teethies all about?
Posts: 276 | From: Essex | Registered: Apr 2005
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ondergard:
What is this Valyard tng? This seems to have passed me by... Likewise the Richard E Grant character. What's that, and the veiled teethies all about?
Episode only, one of the 'other' names of the Dr mentioned as part of the GI speech 21&23 minutes in (iplayer version).
("He will have other names, the storm, the [something else], the valyard)
Actually listening to that bit it sounds like that's the Dr who was killed (and perhaps justifiably, although taking the GI's word for it)
So it's sufficient to know it's a name for the Dr as the enemy.
If you want the full history there was a 6th Dr run of stories in which the Dr was on trial with a timelord called the Valyard prosecuting.
It's a bit mixed, but I'll try not to spoil it (I'm sure there's a wiki page).
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
At a slight tangent, was anybody else watching Broadchurch? I missed the first four episodes. The last four were pretty good.
For those who don't know, Olivia Coleman and David Tennant as detectives, and Rory, sorry, Arthur Darvill as a vicar. To my mind Chris Chibnall writes much better than he's written for Doctor Who.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
IMHO there is not nearly enough woo-hooing on this thread about the incorporation of William Hartnell into the story. I am willing to forgive a lot of nonsense (including a large chunk of the past season) because of the utterly classy way Bill was worked into the story.
As for the Not-Doctor, I think we are supposed to think that he is the Valeyard...but that is a red herring for fans. I rather like the idea that he is a regeneration somewhere between McGann and Eccleston and that he bargained for extra regenerations as a trade for his efforts in the Time War. While, dramatically, the regeneration problem shouldn't be resolved until we think that we have used them all up, but it would be a nice 50th Anniversary present to be told that we no longer have to worry about that!
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498
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Posted
I liked the episode - a lot. It may have had its flaws, but it was easily the best of the season.
I never thought we'd find out the Doctor's actual name although I expected it to be about why he calls himself the Doctor. I liked that "in the name of the Doctor" turned out to be the point, but that the deliberate re herring was also acknowledged by having river say his real name - off-screen.
The old Doctor "cameos" were lovely, and there was a lot of intersting and/or entertaining detail. Richard E Grant was a worthy villain (again), but the Whispermen, though well-rendered, seemed a bit pointless...
quote:
Originally posted by Inanna:
By the way, did Clara's intervention undermine the TARDIS's claim that she stole him?
I wondered about that, too, but since the TARDIS seems to have developed her own kind of relationship with Clara, may she was/became part of this "elopement"... (which I suppose is similar to what The Rogue said)
I also agree with The Rogue that John Hurt's Doctor may have come between what we know as 8 and 9, during the Time War (we have not seen Paul McGann regenerate, after all, nor anyone regenerate into Chris Eccleston).
Inanna's suggestion of him being pre-Hartnell also looks attractive, but that is likely to be before he picked the name, so he couldn't really have "broken the promise" that came with it.
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I kept an eye out for my favourite Doctor (Davison) but have to take it on trust he was there as I didn't actually spot him... And I liked the idea of John Hurt at the end, as reverting to an older actor for the Doctor.
I think I saw a flash of cricket jacket in that last scene, but wouldn't swear to it. As for the casting of John Hurt, I agree, although this of course scuppers the theory that the Dcotor ages (roughly) backwards ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by beatmenace:
With respect to the Guardian - we now know the Doctor ISNT immortal.
Quite - in fact we have always known this, the danger of regeneration going wrong has been repeatedly mentioned in the series, past and present. It looks to me as if the 12 regenerations were imposed by Timelord Society, so things may be diffrent once that constraint is left behind (cf. the Master). Also, the Guardian misquotes the relevant scene in the Sarah-Jane adventures: When asked how many lives/regenerations (can't remember which) he has, he answers "507", which probably implies that he does not know, but does not imply that the number is infinite. Last night during discussion after the episode, we checked (for a joke) whether 507 was a multiple of 13: turns out it is, twice over (3 x 13 x 13)! What are the odds of that being coincidence?
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'We are star-stuff. We are the Universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out'
Delenn (Babylon 5)
Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009
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doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
At a slight tangent, was anybody else watching Broadchurch? I missed the first four episodes. The last four were pretty good.
For those who don't know, Olivia Coleman and David Tennant as detectives, and Rory, sorry, Arthur Darvill as a vicar. To my mind Chris Chibnall writes much better than he's written for Doctor Who.
Yes - I was surprised there wasn't a thread about it at the time, but was too busy/absent to start one myself.
The show made me believe in Chris Chibnall as a writer after all - looks like his strength are just not in Doctor Who...
(also, I understand from an interview that Broadchurch was a labout of love, not written under the constraints of a pre-commissioned weekly show)
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'We are star-stuff. We are the Universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out'
Delenn (Babylon 5)
Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I kept an eye out for my favourite Doctor (Davison) but have to take it on trust he was there as I didn't actually spot him.
He's the Doctor trapped in "force lines," or behind a bad 90's laser photo background—the clip's from Arc of Infinity, which I wouldn't entirely blame you for having forgotten, unless you want a perfect example of Who episodes that seriously underwhelm. Thank you, Vimeo, the TARDIS Wiki, and Wife in Space, for making it possible for me to skip at least some of the bad episodes (or, in the case of "Horns of Nimon," keep watching the especially awful last ten minutes over and over again).
As for this one, I have just one question, one simple question the people who killed the Doctor might have wanted to think about: when the TARDIS finally dies, and the whole "bigger on the inside" bit fails, what happens when she becomes her true size and takes up half the universe? Does everyone just move into the TARDIS Apartments and colonize its exceedingly vast interior? I mean, the neighborhood might be a dump, but there's space enough for everyone, including the residents of the galaxies that got displaced!
Oh, and watching Strax turn back into an Unfunny Sontaran was uncanny. After building him up as the bumbling comic relief, seeing him turn violent again was more frightening than any number of Rene Magrite aliens (who weren't exactly the stuff of good, happy dreams themselves).
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
"Arc of Infinity" was dire. However, if I remember correctly, they did get to go to Amsterdam, which was quite a venture for the cast.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
"Arc of Infinity" was dire. However, if I remember correctly, they did get to go to Amsterdam, which was quite a venture for the cast.
Which is why it's underwhelming, rather than just plain Bad. You have Amsterdam, you have Tegan, you have Omega, you have a rather promising first episode, and then...
You get something that should have been a lot more than it actually was.
I can forget bad. Underwhelming, not so much. So truly hideously awful it comes out the other side as kinda enjoyable? I think we've had a few of those in Who, though it's much more common in Star Trek, if somehow less spectacular.
A side note after rewatching this week's episode: there seem to be at least a few "The Five Doctors" references sprinkled throughout, though whether it's more than just harmless fanservice is pretty unlikely. Both episodes involve trying to break into a tower in the middle of a/the death zone; pulling people out of their native places in time; Bessie the Car (if only in flashbacks this time); multiple parties trying to enter a forbidden tomb, one through the password-protected front door, another through a secret underground entrance; a villainous character we had seen in a previous episode; and a general understanding that, whatever was in the tomb probably wasn't something you actually wanted to get your hands on. Missing, however, was any authorization to use the Mind Probe.
Oh well. Can't have everything.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
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