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Source: (consider it) Thread: Doctor Who: (again) Winter 2012
Dafyd
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# 5549

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So it would appear that this season is going to have a big bad guy after all. I must say I don't mind too much, because it does exist in multiple time zones. I hope he/it'll turn out to be behind the Silence as well?

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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soggy_amphibian
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# 2487

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They're really on a Second Doctor kick, aren't they? The Great Intelligence in the Christmas special and this one, Ice Warriors upcoming.
I am going to put my prophetic reputation on the line and say they're not going to wrap up the Great Intelligence without an appearance of the Yeti.

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Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.

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ACK
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# 16756

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Warning - slightly spoilery.
The question I was left with is, who was the girl in the shop that gave Clara the phone number of the Tardis? Was it just a throw-away line to explain why she had the number and will never be referenced again, or will it appear to have more behind it than that? Since this is Steven Moffat and not Steven Erikson I suspect the first option.
I need to watch the episode again to get all the nuances - house full of family not the best time to watch something that threw so many things at you in so small a space of time.

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Gill H

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# 68

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I suspect it is significant. The Doctor was quite curious as to who the woman was.

Given what we know about recent companions returning for the 50th, there is an obvious contender for a woman in a shop...

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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.

- Lyda Rose

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Ariel
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# 58

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quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
Given what we know about recent companions returning for the 50th, there is an obvious contender for a woman in a shop...

If that's who I think you may be thinking of, she said when asked by journalists that it was a nice idea but she hadn't been asked to be in it.
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Adeodatus
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# 4992

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'Twas good. I'd give it 7/10 for content and 10/10 for style. Matt Smith continues to be, as I believe the youth might say, "made of awesome". I loved the scene where he puts Clara to bed to recover: glass of water, some flowers in a jug, and a plate of jammie dodgers (one of them with a bite out of it). A perfect Eleventh Doctor moment.

Jenna-Louise Coleman is good, but I could do without all the flirty stuff. We've had seven years of that, more or less: enough, already! Celia Imrie was superb, and beyond superb in her very last scene. It's a pity we probably won't see her again.

And some of the in-jokes were nice. My favourite:
"What chapter are you on?"
"Ten."
"Eleven's best. You'll cry your eyes out."

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
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Good, but not great. To make it better there needs to be another episode where we find out what the Great Intelligence wanted all those brains for, and if his (?) plans have been set back by the Doctor's interference.

Liked the joke in the title, though it had bugger-all to do with the main story. And what a joy to have an intelligent companion, who can act, again!

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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The Rogue
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# 2275

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I may have missed something from a long time ago but when did the Tardis acquire its St John Ambulance sticker?

Please feel free to mock me if it has always been there.

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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?

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Pyx_e

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# 57

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Much to enjoy, the twitter joke made LOL. Worth a second watch. Looking forward to Oswin being less the simple-girly and more the I-am-women-see-me-roar she was in earlier episodes.

Slightly worried I am getting a bit used to how awesome the acting is for the Doctor, he really is very, very good.

Fly Safe, Pyx_e

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It is better to be Kind than right.

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Heavenly Anarchist
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# 13313

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quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
I may have missed something from a long time ago but when did the Tardis acquire its St John Ambulance sticker?

Please feel free to mock me if it has always been there.

It arrived with Matt Smith in 2010 but it was on William Hartnell's apparently too - they used to feature on old police boxes (St. John's trained police in first aid).

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Adeodatus
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# 4992

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quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
I may have missed something from a long time ago but when did the Tardis acquire its St John Ambulance sticker?

Please feel free to mock me if it has always been there.

Hartnell had it for a while, then it vanished, and it came back in The Eleventh Hour, Matt Smith's first story.

Likewise the white window frames. They were painted blue between the location and studio filming for Hartnell's story The War Games, and stayed stubbornly blue till The Eleventh Hour.

Yes. I am that police box geek.

(cross post with Heavenly Anarchist)

[ 31. March 2013, 11:58: Message edited by: Adeodatus ]

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

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Mudfrog
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What I miss is the immense sadness and tragedy of the tennant years - the loss of Rose, the wiping of Donna's memory, even the very last moments of Tennant's incarnation: 'I don't want to go.'

I like this new Doctor but he needs to experience some real heartbreaking tragedy.

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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton

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Dormouse

Glis glis – Ship's rodent
# 5954

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We watched it today as I ate my egg mayonnaise sandwich. I was so enthralled that I forgot to eat! I'm not a Doctor Who geek who can find holes in every story : I just love it for the fun and the tragedy of the stories. I loved the whole thing, and noted slight spillage from Sherlock - the computery stuff on screen etc. Celia Imrie was more than superb and the "don't click" was deliciously reminiscent of Don't blink.

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What are you doing for Lent?
40 days, 40 reflections, 40 acts of generosity. Join the #40acts challenge for #Lent and let's start a movement. www.40acts.org.uk

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Eigon
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# 4917

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Give the poor Doctor a break, Mudfrog!
He's been traumatised by the Time War as 9, gone through all that tragedy as 10, and the loss of Amy and Rory turned him into a temporary hermit. Let the poor man have a bit of fun for a while!

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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.

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Mudfrog
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# 8116

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quote:
Originally posted by Eigon:
Give the poor Doctor a break, Mudfrog!
He's been traumatised by the Time War as 9, gone through all that tragedy as 10, and the loss of Amy and Rory turned him into a temporary hermit. Let the poor man have a bit of fun for a while!

OK
[Yipee]

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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton

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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

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Random thoughts
  • I was half expecting him to get out a flaming chain and and lasso his way into that office, a la Ghost Rider.
  • You know, its really hard to take Richard E. Grant seriously as a bad dude. The sneer has too much history.
  • The flirting bit. Its getting dangerously close to treating all young women as sex objects. I know its liberating compared to how people were treated before but its strikes me as sexist. Why..well....
  • More on that. I agree with Kelly. They never treat women companions as an equal, or even as a warrior like Leela. They are all puzzles. I was hoping they would treat her as an equal.
  • Well at least we know she ain't gonna be Saint Rose.
  • Good acting all around
  • Neat story, but the idea that the Doctor would acquiesce and seek out what amounts to that much death, without some acknowledgement, indicates to me that they threw that line in about "so many people going to die" as an afterthought. Once again, the psychic pain of massive amounts of death not thought through whereas the psychic pain of one death is always overblown. Moffat needs to get out more.
  • I give it a 7. Hopefully it will not bog down.


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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
Given what we know about recent companions returning for the 50th, there is an obvious contender for a woman in a shop...

If that's who I think you may be thinking of, she said when asked by journalists that it was a nice idea but she hadn't been asked to be in it.
Who are you thinking of? It's been announced that, despite Piper's claim not to have been asked, she and Tennant are going to be in the anniversary.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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doubtingthomas
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# 14498

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I enjoyed that, although I am sure a second viewing will reveal more holes as well as more details.
Personally, I think the originator of the phone number was one of the Moffat era characters, who is already billed to reappear in the finale (if you look up who I mean, any spoilerization is your own fault, if you aleready know, I expect it is not much of one, especially as I am usually wrong about these things anyway).

quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
I would like to know how the Doctor rode the motor bike through the Tardis control room. I don't suppose the floor was very grippy. Or perhaps the Tardis had some trickery which made it easy. There is a Tardis story later this season which I am looking forward to.

Of course it does, it's a Tardis motorbike... [Big Grin]

quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Looking forward to Oswin being less the simple-girly and more the I-am-women-see-me-roar she was in earlier episodes.

I think/hope that we will see her develop from the one into the other in the next few episodes. Also I expect that we are meant to be a bit confused about her character at this point.

quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Random thoughts
  • The flirting bit. Its getting dangerously close to treating all young women as sex objects. I know its liberating compared to how people were treated before but its strikes me as sexist. Why..well....
  • More on that. I agree with Kelly. They never treat women companions as an equal, or even as a warrior like Leela. They are all puzzles. I was hoping they would treat her as an equal.

I don't think flirting necessarily has that implication (although of course the danger is there), but it seems more of a reflection of our society's tendency to sexualize pretty much any human attraction. Which is tiresome, but not necessarily sexist.

Also, Donna was very much the Doctor's equal (as was Liz Shaw in 1970), so there is hope yet....

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'We are star-stuff. We are the Universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out'
Delenn (Babylon 5)

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
What I miss is the immense sadness and tragedy of the tennant years - the loss of Rose, the wiping of Donna's memory, even the very last moments of Tennant's incarnation: 'I don't want to go.'

I like this new Doctor but he needs to experience some real heartbreaking tragedy.

Cut him a break - he must be rejoicing at being free from Amy!

ETA: "Donna was very much the Doctor's equal"???? What? Martha maybe, but Donna had to get superpowered to match him.

[ 31. March 2013, 15:20: Message edited by: Robert Armin ]

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

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Donna was an equal but not treated that way. My wife likes the the Library episodes, but I shudder at the unfairness of the ending. (And secretly wonder what River Song would have been like with Kate Winslet)

And what they did to that character at the end, that was brutal, cruel, and unnecessary (unless you are Russel Davies and endlessly attempting to out Joss Whedon Joss Whedon) [Mad]

They don't let women companions be people.


And the guy companionss, with the exception of Captain Jack, are all a degree of separation from the Doctor and fools. The nadir was St. Rose where she openly laughed at her ex boyfriend, who was a poor guy trying. They attempted to fix that with Mr. and Mrs. mum of the Doctor's wife but still couldn't get the bumbling man thing out of the way.

Makes me almost pine for Adric.

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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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How about Jamie? He wasn't the Doctor's equal (short of Romana, who could be?) but he was a real mate. I wish we could have a nu-Who companion who is a mate rather than a flirt-object.

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Heavenly Anarchist
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# 13313

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I saw Donna as an equal. She didn't flirt with him, she was actually repulsed by the idea. She spoke her mind to him to the extent that she acted as his conscience in that episode with the spidery thing ( sorry, no memory of titles). She was morally superior to him then.

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doubtingthomas
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# 14498

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:

ETA: "Donna was very much the Doctor's equal"???? What? Martha maybe, but Donna had to get superpowered to match him.

Martha most certainly not. She might have been, but spoilt that potential herself by her pining adoration.
Donna, on the other hand would not take any rubbish. She was not his superhero equal, because no mere human can be (and I agree the superpowering was silly), but in their day-to-day relationship, she was a match for him and his personality.

quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:

And what they did to that character at the end, that was brutal, cruel, and unnecessary (unless you are Russel Davies and endlessly attempting to out Joss Whedon Joss Whedon) [Mad]

There is probably an entire thread in just discussing this, but I did not dislike it the way many people do; it was unpleasant to watch, but it felt like the ultimate companion death, with much of the tragedy in the loss of something more important than her physical life, and also in the choice that brought it about.

quote:
They don't let women companions be people.

And the guy companionss, with the exception of Captain Jack, are all a degree of separation from the Doctor and fools.

In other words, they don't let any companions be people - that's a form of equality I suppose... [Two face]
(although I don't think it is entirely true, for either gender)

[ 31. March 2013, 15:50: Message edited by: doubtingthomas ]

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'We are star-stuff. We are the Universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out'
Delenn (Babylon 5)

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Paul.
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# 37

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It was OK. 6.5/10 (OK 7, I'm feeling generous)

It felt very fillery, there was very little plot and the resolution of the threat was very simple. Which is all fine if you have something else, like some screen candy special effects (the kind of thing in the trailer for next week) or some great mono-/dia-logue or something. It did make me remember that the first copy of 2000AD I ever bought had a Judge Dredd story with bikers riding up the side of a sky-scraper.

And it really irked me the way they kept referring to something being in or having taken over "the wifi" - the? But that kind of stuff is silly and you only notice it when other stuff is not working.

New companion is pretty but she wasn't given a lot to do. I've only really liked her in 1/3 outings so far, but that 1 shows she's capable of much more. They seem to be playing up the flirty with her and the Doc which makes me think that's misdirection and they're not ultimately going there.

Celia Imrie was good. It takes a real actress to pull off that final scene of hers, fortunately they had one.

Oh and landing the Tardis in a moving airplane? He must have been having a very good day, or River was hiding out of shot.

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Ariel
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# 58

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
How about Jamie? He wasn't the Doctor's equal (short of Romana, who could be?) but he was a real mate. I wish we could have a nu-Who companion who is a mate rather than a flirt-object.

I want a re-run of Adric. I want to see a geeky, very intelligent male companion who's an expert on computers and totally at a loss with anything female. A sort of intelligent Dougal to the Doctor's Ted.

Either that or they could bring back - I was just about to say Father Jack (!) but I meant Captain Jack. But actually Father Jack in the Tardis might be a bit of a lark too.

Either way, male companions instead of flirty young love-lorn females would be a refreshing change.

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Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Likewise the white window frames. They were painted blue between the location and studio filming for Hartnell's story The War Games, and stayed stubbornly blue till The Eleventh Hour.

You mean The War Machines, right? The War Games was Troughton.

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
Given what we know about recent companions returning for the 50th, there is an obvious contender for a woman in a shop...

If that's who I think you may be thinking of, she said when asked by journalists that it was a nice idea but she hadn't been asked to be in it.
Who are you both thinking of? It sounds as though you have someone specific in mind.

--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Gill H

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# 68

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Actually Father Jack and Captain Jack would mostly be interested in the same things - except Captain Jack wouldn't restrict himself to 'Gurrrrrls!'

Now, Captain Jack Sparrow as a companion, that would be fun...

[ 31. March 2013, 18:59: Message edited by: Gill H ]

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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.

- Lyda Rose

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Ariel
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# 58

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Who are you both thinking of? It sounds as though you have someone specific in mind.

Well, I was thinking of Billie Piper/Rose. But Dafyd says:

quote:
Who are you thinking of? It's been announced that, despite Piper's claim not to have been asked, she and Tennant are going to be in the anniversary.
Which should be er interesting.

I think Captain Jack Sparrow would totally upstage the Doctor. That would be worth watching.

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Penny S
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# 14768

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Book by Amelia Williams - not one I would have expected a boy to be reading, nor that boy to have been enticed to read it in order to cry - to be available as an e-book from the Beeb, apparently. Designed to look like one from the past, like the versions of Katy, Pollyanna and Anne of Green Gables, published in my childhood, not the original date, rather than a modern book. Respect for that.

Reference to a Tardis at Earl's Court - thought it meant something, and checked it out. Nice joke, but a bit self referential.

Do these mean anything, or are they just play?

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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quote:
Originally posted by Late Paul:
Oh and landing the Tardis in a moving airplane? He must have been having a very good day, or River was hiding out of shot.

The piloting of the TARDIS in space (where no time dimension is involved) is usually accurate.

As for the motor bike having to have driven through the control room, The TARDIS is multi-dimensional, it is possible that the garage hac its own connection to the outside door that does not go through the control room.

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blog

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The Rogue
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# 2275

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The Tardis did tell the Doctor that she didn't always go where he wanted to be but she did go where he needed to be. I suppose he needed to be on the plane although the front end might have been easier.

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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?

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Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
I suspect it is significant. The Doctor was quite curious as to who the woman was.

Given what we know about recent companions returning for the 50th, there is an obvious contender for a woman in a shop...

When I first heard it, my mind went back to the mysterious woman who kept appearing to advise Wilf during the 10th's final story. She also seemed to be among the Time Lords' inner council. I thought maybe she appeared again to give the phone number to Clara. And if so, maybe we will finally find out who she is/was.

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angelica37
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not bad I thought and Clara was good, Celia Imrie was excellent but I thought it ended rather abruptly with the bad guys just pulling the plug and running away. I think a change from the pretty young female companion would be nice, the young monk from the opening sequence in the 12th century would have made a very interesting companion.
One small rant though, why do they insist on having the 'Next time' sequence at the end to tell us what is going to happen in the next episode, I don't want to know! I want to be held in suspense, and surprised not told weeks in advance which actors will be in the anniversary special and what monsters will feature in the next episodes! Do the BBC really think we are such idiots we won't watch next week unless they tell us what's going to happen!!

[ 31. March 2013, 20:09: Message edited by: angelica37 ]

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Adeodatus
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quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Likewise the white window frames. They were painted blue between the location and studio filming for Hartnell's story The War Games, and stayed stubbornly blue till The Eleventh Hour.

You mean The War Machines, right? The War Games was Troughton.
Excuse me. I think I need to go and spend some time in quiet contemplation. I hear 1207 is very nice ...

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balaam

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quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
The Tardis did tell the Doctor that she didn't always go where he wanted to be but she did go where he needed to be. I suppose he needed to be on the plane although the front end might have been easier.

It had to be the rear. Dashing down the aisle of the diving plane is one of the best action scenes in the programme. The TARDIS materialises at the place that makes the best television.

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Jay-Emm
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quote:
Originally posted by angelica37:
... but I thought it ended rather abruptly with the bad guys just pulling the plug and running away.

I see what you mean. I'm hoping that the story will have introduced something else that matters (as well as Clara). So, it doesn't end abruptly it's just an inflexion point in a bigger story.

I'm also left wondering if they could have pulled off a companion who's not a companion. It's a bit of a shame if it's back to usual after the first 2 appearances (although we have had River (magical & in reverse), Jack (magical), missing Amy and Rory).

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balaam

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quote:
Originally posted by ACK:
The question I was left with is, who was the girl in the shop that gave Clara the phone number of the Tardis?

I'd like it to be Sally Sparrow from Blink. I'm usually wrong though.

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alienfromzog

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quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by ACK:
The question I was left with is, who was the girl in the shop that gave Clara the phone number of the Tardis?

I'd like it to be Sally Sparrow from Blink. I'm usually wrong though.
That was my bet too.

AFZ

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The Rogue
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Was it the number that was special or how it was connected? The Doctor didn't realise a call was possible so perhaps some external force intercepted the call and made it link to the Tardis. God?

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ACK
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I did not know who was going to be the 50th anniversary special, so went and had a search.
My first thought was: argh, they have put her in an inaccessible parallel universe, yet they still manage to keep bringing her back.
My second thought was: if David Tennant is in it, who is he playing, the Doctor, or the human version?

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Robert Armin

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Sally Sparrow is the only character I can think of who works in a shop, and it would be very good to see her again. However, I thought Clara has specified someone working in a flower shop, which complicates matters. Or am I misremembering?

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Adeodatus
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If the woman in the shop is significant (and remember we're dealing with Moffat, Master of the Red Herring here), I think it's unlikely to be Sally Sparrow. Carey Mulligan, who played her - BAFTA winning, Oscar nominated Carey Mulligan - must be a lot more expensive to hire than she was in 2007!

I wonder where Donna works these days?

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Ariel
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I thought Donna couldn't be brought face to face with the Doctor again or her head will explode.
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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Reference to a Tardis at Earl's Court - thought it meant something, and checked it out. Nice joke, but a bit self referential.

I didn't get it. Can you post a link?

As to calls getting through to the Tardis, they can, if the Tardis decides to accept them, and someone knows how to make the link. I think it was Are you my mummy" the last time it rang, but there is some form of link.

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The Rogue
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And we know very little about how the Tardis works and how sentient it is. We found out a bit in The Doctor's Wife and had a few squillion new questions pop up - a brilliantly frustrating and imaginative episode.

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orfeo

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Just caught up.

I rather enjoyed that, mostly because there was plenty of good acting in it (Celia Imrie for the win). And some nice one-liners.

And yes there were a hell of a lot of loose threads left over as to what was going on, but I took that in my stride on the grounds that this was supposed to be setting up an ongoing overarching plot. If Richard E. Grant doesn't make further appearances I'll be excessively miffed, but I think that's highly unlikely. Everything about this was geared to "you know about him, you'll be seeing more of him".

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
If Richard E. Grant doesn't make further appearances I'll be excessively miffed, but I think that's highly unlikely.

Do you think he'll have a robot John Simm with him?

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Heavenly Anarchist
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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Sally Sparrow is the only character I can think of who works in a shop, and it would be very good to see her again. However, I thought Clara has specified someone working in a flower shop, which complicates matters. Or am I misremembering?

Rose worked in a department store and I think her mother used to date a market fruit and veg seller. She also has a history of turning up to give people advice.

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orfeo

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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
If Richard E. Grant doesn't make further appearances I'll be excessively miffed, but I think that's highly unlikely.

Do you think he'll have a robot John Simm with him?
I doubt GI hangs out with the other mega-villains.

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