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Source: (consider it) Thread: Doctor Who: (again) Winter 2012
ACK
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Site with Tardis in Earl's court

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'It's the only thing that worries me about going to Heaven. Would I ever get used to the height.' Norman Clegg

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Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
I doubt GI hangs out with the other mega-villains.

Possibly GI double-dates with the Mandragora Helix...

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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doubtingthomas
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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Sally Sparrow is the only character I can think of who works in a shop, and it would be very good to see her again. However, I thought Clara has specified someone working in a flower shop, which complicates matters. Or am I misremembering?

Flower shop associated Rani's Mum from the Sarah Jane Adventures. But she wouldn't have the number unless SJ gave it to her, and bringing SJ back might cause some technical problems (unless she remains off-screen of course...).

[ 01. April 2013, 14:41: Message edited by: doubtingthomas ]

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Do you think he'll have a robot John Simm with him?

I doubt GI hangs out with the other mega-villains.
Sorry - it was an obscure Who reference. Look up Scream of the Shalka. It's available to watch on the BBC website if you search for it. I believe it has the distinction of being the only story that has ever been explicitly declared Out of Continuity by either Russell Davies or Stephen Moffat. (It's actually quite good; it was written by Paul Cornell.)

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Inanna

Ship's redhead
# 538

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Did anyone else notice that in Clara's "101 Places to Go" book, the list of ages went from 22 to 24? No year of her being 23.

She also couldn't type '23' in the wi-fi password... she just put in '12' rather than '123'.

And her birthday from the Christmas special was on the 23rd.

I might be getting over-scrupulous with this. Or Moffat likes messing with our heads.

I enjoyed the episode overall, especially the twist in the ending, with such great acting from Imrie. I also liked the Doctor's version of "finding a quiet place to go and think about what I've lost" from the prequel at the start. I wondered if the leaf in her travel book wasn't from that day in the park too.

Looking forward to unraveling the Clara Oswin Oswald mystery some more next week hopefully.

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All shall be well
And all shall be well
And all manner of things shall be well.

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orfeo

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# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Do you think he'll have a robot John Simm with him?

I doubt GI hangs out with the other mega-villains.
Sorry - it was an obscure Who reference. Look up Scream of the Shalka. It's available to watch on the BBC website if you search for it. I believe it has the distinction of being the only story that has ever been explicitly declared Out of Continuity by either Russell Davies or Stephen Moffat. (It's actually quite good; it was written by Paul Cornell.)
Ah yes. I have heard of it (although not seen it) and aware of its cast list.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Ariston
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quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Sally Sparrow is the only character I can think of who works in a shop, and it would be very good to see her again. However, I thought Clara has specified someone working in a flower shop, which complicates matters. Or am I misremembering?

Rose worked in a department store and I think her mother used to date a market fruit and veg seller. She also has a history of turning up to give people advice.
Bingo. Remember, they're bringing back Rose (yes, again); I think this is our first reference to her so far. Granted, this seriously f***s with the timelines (didn't the Doctor, oh, blow up her shop the first time they met?), but when has that ever been anything but a plot point?

Other bit of continuity: while there was a nice bit of hay made with "run you clever boy...and remember," what about the recurring "where am I?" line upon being assimilated (either into the cloud or a Dalek)? Subtle, but...

New TARDIS interior—is it bad that the thing I like most is the vestibule in front of the doors? It looks to be the same size as the outside of the TARDIS—so you get some sense scale for once in the interior architecture, some visual cue, as to exactly how much smaller it is on the outside.

Sad to say, but I think it may be curtains for Dr. Song; between the Doctor's sulking and his not mentioning his wife to Clara, well, the conclusion almost draws itself. I hope I'm wrong, though.

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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The Great Gumby

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# 10989

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
Sad to say, but I think it may be curtains for Dr. Song; between the Doctor's sulking and his not mentioning his wife to Clara, well, the conclusion almost draws itself. I hope I'm wrong, though.

I hope you're right, but I fear you're not. We're a right pair between us, aren't we? [Big Grin]

Good spot on the 23s, Inanna. I noticed the book, and the password follows the same pattern, but I missed the birthday. Is that relevant? It would appear to break the pattern of avoiding 23s, being a specific use of 23, but that's a different Clara, so maybe it works after all. There's a clue in there somewhere, I'm sure. It reminded me a little of a ST:TNG episode where Data left himself a number clue on how to get out of a time loop. Not sure that's what we have here, but it came to mind.

Anyway, I rather liked it. It had pace, it had puzzles, and it had plenty of in-jokes. I was frustrated by the way everyone was happy to stand around and watch as the robot very slowly turned around, instead of running away, and I could have done without the motorbike up the side of the Shard, but I suppose they have to do things like that in case there are any actual children watching. [Smile]

I'll let them off for a slightly sketchy plot because I suspect all will become clear in time, but the big puzzle is still Clara "Oswin" Oswald. I had a moment of wondering whether I was going to end up being sort of right way back when I suggested she might be an intelligence/personality downloaded into different bodies over time. That would fit with something going wrong during her interrupted "cyber-kidnapping", but I don't think it quite works.

The question is what order they're happening in. Is it Earth chronology, the Doctor's chronology, or something else? Rational investigation looks like a fool's errand in this context, but this episode must have happened before Asylum of the Daleks, I think, because she wasn't a computer genius at the start of it. Was she one at Christmas? Not the best place to demonstrate it, but I can't remember if she showed any understanding of the TARDIS.

The "Run You Clever Boy" bit in this episode didn't come from her, so it feels like this should be the start of something, but then there's the leaf to explain. Or they could all be some sort of ripples and aftershocks from a single event we haven't seen yet, but that doesn't explain other people having the RYCB password, or how she was a computer genius in one incarnation and a helpdesk nightmare in another. I'm inclined to think this was the start and it's something to do with her being uploaded, but I'm not 100% happy with that explanation.

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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

A letter to my son about death

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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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A recurring phrase across time and space.
A companion who just won't die, no matter how many times she gets written out.
Romantic tension.

What's going to happen when Rose and Rose 2.0 meet (again)?

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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Adeodatus
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I saw a story about Rose coming back, and hoped it might be an April Fool joke. Clearly some people don't take the hint, even when you shove them into another universe. It's a pity, I think: I remember the days when a companion could be relied on to stay out of the way once they'd gone.

Clara's problem with the number 23 might be some sort of clue, but the number 16 was also missing from the front of her book.

So she's split into several different personae in different times and places, eh? I reckon she's one of these guys.

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

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Inanna

Ship's redhead
# 538

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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Clara's problem with the number 23 might be some sort of clue, but the number 16 was also missing from the front of her book.

Hmm.. OK, so the 16 year old Clara ended up in Victorian times as a governess, while the 23 year old Clara was spun into the future where she became a Dalek... though that doesn't explain how Oswin got her super-hacking skills, if they weren't "uploaded" into Clara until the episode we just saw.

Anyone else got any ideas?

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All shall be well
And all shall be well
And all manner of things shall be well.

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Dafyd
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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
I saw a story about Rose coming back, and hoped it might be an April Fool joke. Clearly some people don't take the hint, even when you shove them into another universe. It's a pity, I think: I remember the days when a companion could be relied on to stay out of the way once they'd gone.

If Rose is back because Smith crosses timelines with Tennant while Rose is in the TARDIS I have no objections. Susan and Sarah Jane both came back in Five Doctors.

Things one wants from a Tennant-Smith story (or any multi-Doctor story) in order of increasing importance:
Compare and contrast Tennant and Smith's approach to situations;
See how Tennant/Smith's companions play off the other Doctor;
See Tennant and Smith bickering like a send-up of Tennant/Smith fans.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Penny S
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I noticed the password letters came from Angie - but Clara was the one who said the words. RYCB could srise from red, yellow, cyan, black, couldn't it? If you didn't know the words.
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orfeo

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# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
If Rose is back because Smith crosses timelines with Tennant while Rose is in the TARDIS I have no objections. Susan and Sarah Jane both came back in Five Doctors.

Yes, exactly. With Tennant in it, no-one suggests he's in it 'now' from a DW timeline perspective, because Doctor Ten is dead. So it's perfectly possible for Rose to also be in it before her excursion to another dimension.

Of course, it's also perfectly possible that we'll get Super-Magic Rose instead. But the history of multi-Doctor stories is to have past incarnations and past companions appear in what is effectively a gap in their previous timeline.

[ 03. April 2013, 02:23: Message edited by: orfeo ]

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Dafyd
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There's an announcement about the bad guys for the anniversary special on the BBC Doctor Who website. I imagine a lot of fans will be saying, At Last.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Adeodatus
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[Eek!] Oh my! (And At Last!)

But I do hope Moffat isn't getting into the trap that John Nathan-Turner and Eric Saward got into, bringing back old enemies that 80% of today's viewers will never have heard of, just for the sake of the fans. When a show starts getting made for the fans, it's had it.

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

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Dafyd
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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
But I do hope Moffat isn't getting into the trap that John Nathan-Turner and Eric Saward got into, bringing back old enemies that 80% of today's viewers will never have heard of, just for the sake of the fans.

I've never seen them on television. Still, I think that they're obviously good enough monsters to bring back in their own right. I'm pretty sure Moffat can do something interesting with them. Whereas Mark Gatiss bringing back the *** ******** seems completely pointless.

Radio 7 broadcast the final McGann/Lucie Miller Big Finish audio season earlier this year. It had stories with both the monsters in question. The story with the At Last made good use of them; whereas the other monsters were just generic monsters. I think that's the problem with the Cybermen in Earthshock or the Silurians in Warriors of the Deep: there's no ideas to them beyond generic monster.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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The Great Gumby

Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989

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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
[Eek!] Oh my! (And At Last!)

But I do hope Moffat isn't getting into the trap that John Nathan-Turner and Eric Saward got into, bringing back old enemies that 80% of today's viewers will never have heard of, just for the sake of the fans. When a show starts getting made for the fans, it's had it.

Actually, I think this is one thing that Moffat's been very good about. There have been lots of in-jokes and references for the hardcore fans in his tenure, but they've never been a huge burden, just throwaways that you either get or don't.

As for this, I don't know what to think, as they haven't appeared since I was born, so I've never seen them. I'm not entirely keen on the way certain long-running aliens have been messed about recently, but it's possible that Moffat thinks they're more or less a blank slate, given their lack of exposure. Also, when finding out more, I noticed that the Wikipedia page for the story in question contains a hilariously unconvincing screenshot. Truly, it was a different age.

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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

A letter to my son about death

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
There's an announcement about the bad guys for the anniversary special on the BBC Doctor Who website. I imagine a lot of fans will be saying, At Last.

Has anyone got a link? So that I can find out what the rest of you are talking about?

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
There's an announcement about the bad guys for the anniversary special on the BBC Doctor Who website. I imagine a lot of fans will be saying, At Last.

Has anyone got a link? So that I can find out what the rest of you are talking about?
These.

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Last ever sig ...

blog

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Has anyone got a link? So that I can find out what the rest of you are talking about?

The BBC Doctor Who page

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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That's the thing with The Unnamed Monsters—there was only one serial (if a rather good one) with them 30-odd years ago (so all the NuHu folks who clog up my facebook feed with their "don't blink" memes will think it new—yes, I think I'm a Who Hipster now, get off my lawn), and it never actually went into much detail about the UM's themselves, especially since their Great and Awful Weaponry was so cool. There's space to play here—if there's anywhere you can mix an iconic classic with new storytelling and worldbuilding, it's right there. Great choice.

As for the Ice Warriors...why do I get the feeling they'll show up in the confirmed "base under siege" episode? It might work, but I'm getting preemptive flashbacks to the worst of the Fifth Doctor era—Warriors of the Deep, anyone? Generic enemy included just because we needed a Big Dumb Monster Horde, base under siege because that's what the fanbois wanted (even if other people wanted, oh, I don't know, plot and character development), and generic guest cast since real characters detracted from the generic base under generic siege. Please let me be wrong.

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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Arethosemyfeet
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# 17047

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This is going to sound crazy, but does anyone know if it's possible to get hold of the score for the setting of "Old Rugged Cross" used in the episode "Gridlock" a few years back?
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Adeodatus
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# 4992

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quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
This is going to sound crazy, but does anyone know if it's possible to get hold of the score for the setting of "Old Rugged Cross" used in the episode "Gridlock" a few years back?

Murray Gold's music for the show is mostly released year by year, but since he would only have arranged this music I'm not sure it would have been released. Try Amazon. Search for something like "doctor who murray gold series three", without the quotes. The individual track might be available as a download. (They did "Abide with me", too - over David Tennant's beautiful speech where he remembered Gallifrey.)

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

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Trudy Scrumptious

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# 5647

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quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
This is going to sound crazy, but does anyone know if it's possible to get hold of the score for the setting of "Old Rugged Cross" used in the episode "Gridlock" a few years back?

I don't know, but that episode is entirely responsible for "The Old Rugged Cross" being added to my family's (hilarious to them) list of "hymns we can't sing in church without Mom breaking down crying."

Thank goodness for Mr. Bean who allows me to have the exact opposite reaction when we sing "All Creatures of our God and King." That one's safely on the no-cry list forever.

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Books and things.

I lied. There are no things. Just books.

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Arethosemyfeet
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# 17047

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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
This is going to sound crazy, but does anyone know if it's possible to get hold of the score for the setting of "Old Rugged Cross" used in the episode "Gridlock" a few years back?

Murray Gold's music for the show is mostly released year by year, but since he would only have arranged this music I'm not sure it would have been released. Try Amazon. Search for something like "doctor who murray gold series three", without the quotes. The individual track might be available as a download. (They did "Abide with me", too - over David Tennant's beautiful speech where he remembered Gallifrey.)
I can get the recording, that's here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/advent07/murray.shtml
I'm trying to find the sheet music. But thanks for trying to help!

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The Rogue
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# 2275

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I remember the Zygons from my childhood and was pretty scared by them. I have watched it again more recently and they were still menacing. I wonder if the Loch Ness monster be along as well. Plenty of scope for Who Gags there, I think.

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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?

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Adeodatus
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# 4992

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quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
I can get the recording, that's here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/advent07/murray.shtml
I'm trying to find the sheet music. But thanks for trying to help!

Hmm ... The hymn still appears in a few hymn books. I've a vague memory of it being in one edition of Mission Praise, but I could be mistaken. But if Gold's arrangement is different, and it probably is, your best bet is probably to hand the recording over to somebody who's awfully good at music, and ask them to transcribe it.

(I have no idea what copyright issues that might involve!)

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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Is anybody else listening to the Big Finish Doctor Who on Radio 7 / iplayer?

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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Is that the season with Tamsin and Lucy? Listened to them a while ago; really disliked the first few, but then they grew on me. By the end I was quite moved, but can't help feeling McGann is a rather dull Doctor.

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Jay-Emm
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# 11411

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
... but can't help feeling McGann is a rather dull Doctor.

I think the current one is the season with Klein an interesting companion). It was on before, the end of the season is a bit wrenching. Mostly 7th Dr (though 8b appears for a bit)
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Panda
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# 2951

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So - The Rings of Akhaten (sp?) anyone?

Ok, I thought. The marketplace really looked like a set though. You used to notice that about Star Trek alien planets too - they all had suspiciously smooth floors and lots of corners at right angles.

The writers are very good at creating liturgies where they need to! Churchgoers would feel right at home...

More interesting was the trailer for next week - was that a Zygon at the very end?

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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I believe that was the first time Susan's been mentioned in the new series. Significant?

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Charles Had a Splurge on
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# 14140

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According to the Guardian it was an Ice Warrior.

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balaam

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# 4543

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Typical new companion second episode. a 20 minute story and time for the newbie to introduce herself. And the companion saves the day. Even so I enjoyed it.

The real who starts next week. Was it a Zygon at the end? I doubt it, I think they're saving them for the half centenary.

**spoiler alert***

If you don't want to know what it is don't look up the give away episode title.

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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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I thought that was a fantastic episode, and anyone who follows @NickPayne may have read his post on it.

In particular, I thought that the Doctors speech was brilliant. And Merry was fantastic - that is not easy to do, and she was excellent.

Even beyond Nick Paynes post, I think there is something poignant about a God who can take all of our history, memories, pain and all of the futures that cannot be. I know this is turning the thinking of the episode on its head, but I like that idea. We have a God who cannot be sated, even with all of that.

And people who are inspired by uplifting singing.

[Fixed link]

[ 07. April 2013, 01:05: Message edited by: jedijudy ]

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Gill H

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# 68

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I thought it was a bit like a jewel box - lots of beautiful little bits, but they don't necessarily add up to much. The little girl (Aled Jones's daughter, fact fans) did really well, I thought, continuing the tradition of good child actors in Doctor Who.

The 'power of stories' seemed to be the over-riding theme, so it was perhaps fitting that the episode was stuffed with references: the Star Wars cantina, the Blade Runner quote (I was so waiting for the Doctor to say "I've seen things you wouldn't believe" that I actually punched the air when he did...) - oh, and just to change track, the Indiana Jones reference with the Doctor reaching under the closing door for his sonic screwdriver.

Plus, did anyone else spot the very brief Hitch-Hiker's reference?

Oh, and those green symbols on the pillars looked very like the wi-fi symbols. Significant?

So yes, I enjoyed all that, and the visuals, and the music ... but the actual episode was just ... there. Oh well.

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balaam

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# 4543

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quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
the episode was stuffed with references: the Star Wars cantina, the Blade Runner quote and the Indiana Jones reference.

Plus, did anyone else spot the very brief Hitch-Hiker's reference?

Got the Star Wars, Blade Runner and I Jones references but missed the Hitch-Hiker one. What was it?

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doubtingthomas
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quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:

So yes, I enjoyed all that, and the visuals, and the music ... but the actual episode was just ... there. Oh well.

Unfortunately, I agree. Some lovely effects, cinematography, and music, but bad pacing, allowing plenty of leisure to to spot the plotholes. Pity.

quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
I believe that was the first time Susan's been mentioned in the new series. Significant?

I'd expect so. Maybe it is only to give Clara the information that he has family (for further reference), but given this si the anniversary year, I wonder whetehr it refernces something specific (my knowledge of the Hartnell era is patchy). I rewatched the Snowmen afterwards and only now realised the full (?) depth of its references to the Troughton era, no doubt in a similar vein.
There seems to be a lot about memory at the moment ("...remember!"), and I'd be very surprised if that was unrelated to that event. --- BTW, how many of the Doctor's memories did the creature take in the end?

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:

**spoiler alert***


If you don't want to know what it is don't look up the give away episode title.

I think this is only a spoiler for real purists.
Judging from Moffat's own episode blurb in last week's Radio Times, he expects us to know who they are by now. (His RT episode guides are designed to be as free of spoilers as possible, and sometimes even deliberately misleading).

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ACK
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# 16756

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The back story on Clara / story arc elements were interesting, especially the explanation of how the leaf was page 1. Lots of clever 'shiny' things in the episode. But I found myself bored on several occasions watching it.
Was it seeing the Doctor when she was at her mother's grave - which was just a quick glance, that Clara recalled? If she remembered that, why not the time from the prequel, where she sits on the swings with him and had a conversation with him? Continuity error, a different Clara, or some other 'clever' explanation?

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Ariel
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# 58

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I only remembered it was on shortly before the end, so missed most of the buildup. Perhaps that was why, but what I saw left me cold. Close-up of the Doctor emoting about all his experiences ("mine's bigger than yours"), Clara saving the day, cue flashbacks and terrified little girl getting it together and becoming confident.

Moffatt has managed to sustain his flow of imagination and creativity quite admirably over the series, but what I saw of this episode seemed silly and melodramatic. I don't much mind about having missed the earlier parts.

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M.
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I found it unengaging and rather boring - we watched it for a second time this morning and I found I couldn't be bothered after the first few minutes. As someone upthread said, the new companion had to introduce herself but - meh.

The other Raiders of the Lost Ark reference was the name 'Ellie Ravenwood ' in the 101 Places book.

M.

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Adeodatus
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# 4992

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I liked it. I thought it had charm. And singing lullabies to Gods is something you don't see very often. And I am loving Clara.

(And I got the Hitchhiker's reference - to put people out of their misery, one of the aliens was named as a Hooloovoo, which in HHGG is a super-intelligent shade of the colour blue.)

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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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I think some people may be after more out of it than it gives. It is a light drama series, with some interesting stories and a whole lot of SF references for afficionados. But it is not high drama - if you want that, the BBC does provide some excellent examples of that elsewhere.

Yes, at its best, it can be deep, quality material. At its worst, it is still fun and pleasant. There are always some good aspects to it. This time, as Adeodatus points out, singing lullabies to Gods is quite fun. And as usual when it touches on religious topics, there is some really interesting challenges. I mean, how many people in churches seem to be singing lullabies to God to keep him fast asleep so they can get on with their normal lives?

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Robert Armin

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# 182

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I enjoyed it - pretty music, pretty pictures, heart warming. All very pleasant, but I won't be in any rush to watch it again.

However, I am gutted to hear there was reference to Susan - I missed that completely. Where did it come?

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doubtingthomas
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# 14498

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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I think some people may be after more out of it than it gives. It is a light drama series, with some interesting stories and a whole lot of SF references for afficionados. But it is not high drama - if you want that, the BBC does provide some excellent examples of that elsewhere.
...

Doctor Who has been able to give so much more, as a light drama series. I don't expect high drama, but I do expect to be engaged while watching.
Yes, there were interesting concepts in this (and, as mentioned before, great production values), but the lack of coherence spoilt its entertainment value.

That said, it is a grand tradition of the series to veer between the sublime and the ridiculous, and while this was nowhere near the former, it was not the latter, either, by a long stretch.

[ 07. April 2013, 14:23: Message edited by: doubtingthomas ]

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doubtingthomas
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# 14498

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Apologies for double-post - I think this was posted while I typed my previous comment:

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:

However, I am gutted to hear there was reference to Susan - I missed that completely. Where did it come?

In the market place, the Doctor tells Clara that he has been there before, with his granddaughter.

[ 07. April 2013, 14:26: Message edited by: doubtingthomas ]

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
However, I am gutted to hear there was reference to Susan - I missed that completely. Where did it come?

As they were wandering through the market, the Doctor said he'd been there before with his granddaughter.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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Many thanks. Need to share this with friend who also missed it.

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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doubtingthomas - well yes, there are times it is brilliant. But it always varies, and at its worst, it is still good, light drama. That was the point I was trying to make.

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