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» Ship of Fools   » Ship's Locker   » Limbo   » Heaven: What did you think of REV? (Page 4)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Heaven: What did you think of REV?
ToujoursDan

Ship's prole
# 10578

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Most players in North America don't do format conversion (PAL is 625 lines at 25 fps and NTSC is 525 lines at 30 fps). Playing a PAL DVD in North America merely gives you an error saying that they are unplayable. In other parts of the world it's different.

Here you'd have to buy a special "region free, code free" player, like this: Amazon: NEW JVC XVBP11 All Multi Region Code Free DVD BLU RAY Player. Plays all region DVD 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 PAL or NTSC and Zone A Blu Rays.

I have a collection of DVDs I have bought in the UK, New Zealand and Australia and had to some research before I was able to play them here.

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"Many people say I embarrass them with my humility" - Archbishop Peter Akinola
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ToujoursDan

Ship's prole
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quote:
In general, it is easier for consumers in PAL countries to view NTSC DVDs than vice versa. Almost all DVD players sold in PAL countries play both kinds of discs, and most modern PAL TVs can handle the converted signal. However, most NTSC players can't play PAL discs, and most NTSC TVs don't work with PAL video. Those in NTSC countries, such as in North America, generally require both a multi-standard player and television to view PAL discs, or a converter box. There are also differences in pixel aspect ratio (720x480 vs. 720x576), display frame rate (29.97 vs. 25), and surround audio options (Dolby Digital vs. MPEG audio). Again, NTSC discs (with Dolby Digital audio) play on over 95% of DVD systems worldwide, while PAL discs play on very few players outside of PAL countries.
Source: PAL/SECAM vs. NTSC

You guys have it much easier than we do.

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"Many people say I embarrass them with my humility" - Archbishop Peter Akinola
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Amos

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# 44

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Little things please me. Like the way the Archdeacon pours his tea into the bucket for the leaks from the roof, and his coffee straight down the vicarage sink.

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daisymay

St Elmo's Fire
# 1480

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quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
Little things please me. Like the way the Archdeacon pours his tea into the bucket for the leaks from the roof, and his coffee straight down the vicarage sink.

After he said, "Thank you"... [Big Grin]

And the REV telling the man not to wear a niquab!!!

And what about that teacher seeing a naked previous pupil?

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+Chad

Staffordshire Lad
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quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
Most players in North America don't do format conversion (PAL is 625 lines at 25 fps and NTSC is 525 lines at 30 fps). Playing a PAL DVD in North America merely gives you an error saying that they are unplayable. In other parts of the world it's different.

Here you'd have to buy a special "region free, code free" player, like this: Amazon: NEW JVC XVBP11 All Multi Region Code Free DVD BLU RAY Player. Plays all region DVD 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 PAL or NTSC and Zone A Blu Rays.

I must have missed that episode.

Back to tonight's.

The Archdeacon knows a "men's day spa on Bond Street". [Biased]

I like him more and more.

And as for letting the Koran group use the church:

"Will they pay?"

"Yes."

"Fine. Good. Get as much off them as you can. In my experience muslims like men in cassocks. They can relate."
[Big Grin]

But, no cab tonight. Is he economising?

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Chad (The + is silent)

Where there is tea there is hope.

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kentishmaid
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I think this series is getting funnier by the episode. And I really like the way they get in serious points, too, like interfaith relations etc. It's fairly unusual for the media to portray Muslims as normal people (at least that's the impression I get), so I thought this was fabulous. Still loving Colin & the Archdeacon.

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Son of a preacherman
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On your knees... avoid the fees!
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Yangtze
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I couldn't help smiling because there is a real life strip club opposite the real life church (St Leonard's) which they used for Rev.

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dorothea
Goodwife and low church mystic
# 4398

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The last two gags were visible a mile off but still very enjoyable.

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Andromeda
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Loved it yet again. I really hope this series is not just a one-off [Frown]

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Schroedinger's cat

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There is a certain degree of predictability in some of the plot lines, but the real humour is not in the plots, it is in the way that Adam and others handle the plots.

And I think there are some real lessons about how we as Christians handle the issues that are raised - without ignoring them or just joking about them. Real depth.

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Ricardus
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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
There is a certain degree of predictability in some of the plot lines.

I dunno ... In the second episode I predicted that someone would catch Adam chasing after an apparent prostitute, and in Monday's episode I thought he was being set up for a honeytrap at the strip club when the owner offered him free champagne. I didn't see the actual endings coming ...

[ 13. July 2010, 22:01: Message edited by: Ricardus ]

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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

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Uriel
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One gag they missed, which I would have loved to see in episode 3, would have been cheesey Darren enjoying himself in the background of the stripclub. Not pointed out, no dialogue, but just there as the camera briefly panned across.
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Caty S.

I read, therefore I am.
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
There is a certain degree of predictability in some of the plot lines.

I dunno ... In the second episode I predicted that someone would catch Adam chasing after an apparent prostitute, and in Monday's episode I thought he was being set up for a honeytrap at the strip club when the owner offered him free champagne. I didn't see the actual endings coming ...
I was also expecting both these things to happen. There's a definite predictability in some of the scenarios, but the resolutions are not always as obvious.

I'm quite enjoying the series.

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dorothea
Goodwife and low church mystic
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It's not too obvious in itself, just the couple of visual gags at the end of this week's episode. I think the approach to Christian faith is delightful and long overdue.

J

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Hawk

Semi-social raptor
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I was a little bit disappointed with the latest episode. Adam was a playing the embarassed fumbling vicar schtick a little to closely IMO. I would like to see him develop more confidence as the series goes on. He's just so much the 'fish-out-of-water' at the moment that I suspect it may become somewhat wearing if his character doesn't develop in the next few weeks. Perhaps its just his character's reaction to the sexual storyline - he seemed more confident when standing up to Darren last week.

Also the episode didn't seem to be going anywhere. It just seemed to be half an hour of watching Adam squirm.

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See my blog for 'interesting' thoughts

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rugbyplayingpriest
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My questions are these:

1) why does he dress like a tramp when his wife has a good wage?

2) why could they not have put at least forty in the pews...four just sells a REALLY dismall image of the church to society and is not accurate IMO

3) Why did they have to give us predictable political bious and not make it more interesting? ie..nasty evo, nice muslim, pro women and gays, yawn, yawn lefty yawn!

Overall it is watchable and it does touch on truths but overall the reality is downplayed and the sense of a dying and pointless institution comes accross

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Yerevan
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quote:
1) why does he dress like a tramp when his wife has a good wage?
If I listed all the men I knew who did that... [Razz]

quote:
2) why could they not have put at least forty in the pews...four just sells a REALLY dismall image of the church to society and is not accurate IMO

3) Why did they have to give us predictable political bious and not make it more interesting? ie..nasty evo, nice muslim, pro women and gays, yawn, yawn lefty yawn!

No sitcom about Christianity in the UK is going to stray far outside a particular comfort zone....the church concerned will never be too lively, Muslim characters will invariably be delightful and evo characters will always be annoying, because this is How Things Are and What Is Acceptable....and about half the time it actually is how things are, so I guess you can't complain too much. And it least it actually sounds funny.
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Jemima the 9th
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# 15106

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quote:
Originally posted by rugbyplayingpriest:
My questions are these:

1) why does he dress like a tramp when his wife has a good wage?

2) why could they not have put at least forty in the pews...four just sells a REALLY dismall image of the church to society and is not accurate IMO

3) Why did they have to give us predictable political bious and not make it more interesting? ie..nasty evo, nice muslim, pro women and gays, yawn, yawn lefty yawn!

Overall it is watchable and it does touch on truths but overall the reality is downplayed and the sense of a dying and pointless institution comes accross

1. I thought he was just a bit scruffy. Bit like most 30 something men I know, including my husband. [Biased] Perhaps he doesn't want to be subsidised by her?

2. I agree 4 is a bit dismal, I think they're exaggerating for cominc effect. But I'm not at all fussed about the image it's presenting to the public at large - so far I think it's the truest depiction of the church I've seen, and I'm glad it's not trying to advertise or put across a good image of the church. It looks struggling to find its way and what it's supposed to be doing, not dying.

3. Bias, what bias? [Biased] Admittedly the nasty evos were painted with broad strokes, and I suspect I liked that episode in particular because it appealed to my own prejudices, and resonated all too painfully with my own experiences. But the prickliness and mutual incomprehension between the "2 sides" are pretty real in my experience, which I'm sure is more limited than most here.

There have only been 3 episodes so far, let's see what happens with the latter half of the series....

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ToujoursDan

Ship's prole
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The scary thing is that there are a lot of U.S. megachurches that resemble the evos, complete with smoothie bars.

[ 14. July 2010, 12:58: Message edited by: ToujoursDan ]

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Paul.
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I am still enjoying it but I think the latest episode wasn't the best.

Also, did you notice that whilst last week he stood up to Evo Darren about too much certainty being a bad thing, this week he admired the moral certainty of the Muslims and tried to emulate it?

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Baptist Trainfan
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But haven't we all been inconsistent at times?

[ 14. July 2010, 13:37: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

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Ricardus
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quote:
Originally posted by wilson:
Also, did you notice that whilst last week he stood up to Evo Darren about too much certainty being a bad thing, this week he admired the moral certainty of the Muslims and tried to emulate it?

Yes, but it made him look an idiot, which I think was the point.

i.e. The reason he squirmed so much when talking to the Muslim woman (Faiza?) was because he was desperate to be tolerant and not give offence. (And did anyone else think she was a bit self-righteous?) And he made a nit of himself over the strip-club because he wanted to be like the Muslims.

The Archdeacon (to my mind) was actually much more laid-back and sensible - he just wanted money from them, and correctly called out Adam for trying to play the hero. A truly complex character ...

ETA: in that sense, it wasn't all that "politically correct" - part of it was sending up Adam's PC attitudes.

[ 14. July 2010, 13:57: Message edited by: Ricardus ]

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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

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Angloid
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quote:
Originally posted by rugbyplayingpriest:

2) why could they not have put at least forty in the pews...four just sells a REALLY dismall image of the church to society and is not accurate IMO

There were about forty when the 'on your knees, avoid the fees' parents turned up. Since then there have been few if any shots of the congregation at worship and though the impression is obviously given of a small and struggling congregation it's not exactly screaming at us 'look - only four!' And I do know churches with such tiny congregations. Perhaps Adam's predecessor took 100 or so over the Tiber with him. He's only new in the parish: give him a chance!

What the series does show is that vicars work hard for their living, and that the church is far from irrelevant in such an inner-city community.

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Crowd: We're all individuals!
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The Great Gumby

Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989

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quote:
Originally posted by wilson:
I am still enjoying it but I think the latest episode wasn't the best.

Also, did you notice that whilst last week he stood up to Evo Darren about too much certainty being a bad thing, this week he admired the moral certainty of the Muslims and tried to emulate it?

I think you have to distinguish between Darren's theologically triumphalist certainty and the more secular moral certainty Smallbone was expressing about the club, and as Ricardus said, he was really just squirming around trying to look tolerant towards Muslims. He also has real, very public struggles (we all hear his prayers) to make sense of everything, arguing himself round in circles, so his internal conflicts aren't news. As I read the character, he probably feels happy enough saying that Darren's too certain (probably meaning too arrogant) because he knows that it isn't really like that, at least for him and probably most people he knows, but he doesn't have the same (realistic? jaded?) view of Islam.

I reckon he's got a sort of woolly sympathy for Muslims out of a sort of vague post-colonial guilt combined with oversensitive racism squeams, less knowledge of Islam, less direct experience of it, a fascination with the apparent quiet, firm simplicity of others' faith (the further away you are, the harder it is to see the legs paddling furiously under the water), and most importantly no painful memories of the practical difficulty of applying their principles to real life, which he has in spades for Christianity.

But even if he is inconsistent (I don't think that's the case, but it might not be a total surprise, given that much of the storyline is apparently taken from true stories from clergy of all stripes), I still find him the most "real" character I've seen on TV in many years. Maybe that's because he's allowed to be, whereas any other series would have had him snapped leaving the club looking rather tipsy, and spending the next half hour trying to explain away the local scandal rag's front page splash "Randy Ratarsed Rev"

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Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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I didn't mean totally predictable - like Dibley became - just that the main stay of the drama and the comedy is not in the core plot. It is in the reactions and interactions with the plot. IMO.

And to me the classic line from this week was the woman who had a problem with pedophiles. As long as Adam could make a link to pedophiles, she was against it, whatever it was.

Brilliant and true.

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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
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Paul.
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quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
But even if he is inconsistent (I don't think that's the case, but it might not be a total surprise, given that much of the storyline is apparently taken from true stories from clergy of all stripes), I still find him the most "real" character I've seen on TV in many years.

I think it's this form of unthinking inconsistency that makes him real and I like that he's real. I just think it's interesting how this sort of thing happens. It's easier to forgive/overcome the hard teachings or rough edges of a less familiar faith than a version of our own. It also helps if feel like you've hit on an issue you can be more certain about.
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Lord Pontivillian
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I thought the Hearse being removed was the best part of episode 3. It was a nice opener. Compared to previous episodes this one wasn't as good, IMO.

The Archdeacon continues to be the star of the show.

[ 14. July 2010, 19:31: Message edited by: Lord Pontivillian ]

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The Church in Wales is Ancient, Catholic and Deformed - Typo found in old catechism.

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Lola

Ship's kink
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I did think the hearse gag was good, but I thought the best part of the episode was Colin pleading with Adam to be allowed to carry on sleeping in the church because he had "such nice dreams". It wasn't played for laughs - just showing what feeling loved and accepted can do for someone on the margins of society.
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kankucho
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# 14318

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I had a moment of enlightenment during tonight's repeat of ep 3.

The Archdeacon is Simon McBurney -- who surely landed this gig on the strength of his portrayal of Foreign Office attache Stone in The Last King Of Scotland. The characters are so similar - constantly materialising from nowhere to offer sage advice in rather petulant manner. A couple of minor roles he had in The Vicar Of Dibley would be purely incidental.

[Edited out the cat's auxiliary typing]

[ 14. July 2010, 22:08: Message edited by: kankucho ]

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kankucho
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# 14318

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quote:
Originally posted by Benny Diction 2:
I was saying to my wife last night that I was sure the actor playing the Archdeacon was the same chap who played the organist / choir master in the Vicar of Dibley. And I was right! Simon McBurney

Just spotted this since making that last post. It wasn't intentionally a comment on Benny's point; but I rest my case all the same. [Smile]

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The Weeder
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Well, I watched again tonight, and will not bother again. Basically, it is not an entertaining programme. Not witty, not engaging, very obvious.
I am not a Vicar of Dibley fan, but it is at least amusing.

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Still missing the gator

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Gill H

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# 68

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I am enjoying it, though I have a nagging feeling it could be so much better than it is. However, the fact that I found myself conducting an imaginary discussion with him about the 'more a show than a sacrament' remark shows that I do find him a credible character.

Just realised where I know Nigel from - he was Archie from Balamory!

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Yerevan
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# 10383

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quote:
The Archdeacon is Simon McBurney -- who surely landed this gig on the strength of his portrayal of Foreign Office attache Stone in The Last King Of Scotland. The characters are so similar - constantly materialising from nowhere to offer sage advice in rather petulant manner. A couple of minor roles he had in The Vicar Of Dibley would be purely incidental.

Though he is also becoming typecase as an Evil Priest (see 'The Golden Compass' and the new 'Robin Hood' movie).
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Boopy
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# 4738

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I find the Rev character extremely convincing. He's inconsistent and uncertain; which is how faith is for a lot of people - muddling through. I also like the way he holds Being and Doing in tension; the constant wavering between seeing the value of presence, and wondering if he should be getting on with being busy.

The bit I've liked best so far is his refusal to ban Colin 'because Colin matters only to God'. I love his acceptance of Colin, Nigel, Adoha etc even at the times when he finds them personally maddening. And, even when he doesn't agree with people, he tries to listen and attend. He doesn't always get it right but it's an orientation he seems to aim for. That orientation towards listening and careful attention seems to be a common thread in all the good clergy I've ever met. Adam comes across as quite 'formed' as a clergyperson to me. By which I mean not getting things right all the time, but reflective about what is going on and attentive to the inherent difficulties within the role. And he tries to see more than the surface of people and things.

Posts: 1170 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
Off Centre View
Shipmate
# 4254

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I like a lot of what this show is trying to do - a new Vicar in a very different parish trying to find his place and to understand his sense of vocation. However, a lot of it still feels very hit and miss.

The first episode had a lot of good things going for it and I particularly liked the way the Vicar dealt with the moral question at the centre of that episode. It felt genuinely like a Vicar at a new church trying to establish himself in a new, very different place and struggling with his role.

The second felt like it was setting up a bit of a straw man with Darren, who felt more like a parody than an actual person. Yes, the whole more "show than sacrament" line was good, but I thought it didn't really examine the evos in any real depth (I'm kind of waiting for their take on Charismatics like me with a "hands down for coffee gag" or something similar). Against that, it was easy for Smallbone to come across as more human and felt like lazy writing.

The third episode just plain didn't work and came across as very politically correct (I thought that the Muslim characters also came across as very two dimensional, though did I see Alex's friend drinking a glass of wine at the end?). Smallbone also looked like he was carrying the idiot ball in going to the strip club with the pretty headteacher - that just felt like it was forced by the plot rather than naturally in character. I did smile at the gag at the end when the bus moved out of the way.

All in all, despite it's faults I do think the series has potential. A lot of things do ring true, particularly the Vicar's internal prayer life and his relationship with his life (they do seem like a real couple). The other characters also have their strengths: the Archdeacon is the ensemble darkhorse; Nigel is well-meaning but socially awkward; while Colin comes across as both very flawed and human while genuinely searching for God (even if the plots seem to keep using him as a way to resolve some convoluted issues). However, it also does not feel like the church has its own character as of yet either.

Once the series has found its own voice it could be something special, but we might have to wait until the second series.

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Chorister

Completely Frocked
# 473

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What I really enjoyed was when Adam came home to find his wife and the muslim woman laughing together in the kitchen. How appropriate that they should become close friends.

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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.

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geroff
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# 3882

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I recognised the Archdeacon as soon as he appeared. He is Fra Pavel of the Magisterium, he hasn't even changed his clothes.

As iPlayer doesn't work when your broadband speeds are similar to dial up [Mad] I have only seen a very juddery episode 1 and none of episode 2. But episode 3 was great when it was broadcast.
Thing is no TV yet in the new curatage....

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"The first principle in science is to invent something nice to look at and then decide what it can do." Rowland Emett 1906-1990

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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Managed to catch up with the last two episodes last night on the iplayer.

Two things I noticed that I don't think have been mentioned yet:

- the liturgy and vestments and general conduct of the church services are real. That's how real Anglicans really behave in church. I found myself almost automatically making the responses. I never got that from The Vicar of Dibley or the scenes set in church in other soap operas or dramas. (Even the great Cracker got church life wrong - as does The Archers, though its not so bad)

- the congregation look like real people in our congregation. I mean they are caricatures or comic parodies of course, but they are caricatures of the kind of people who actually go to church in London. Even Colin. We don't have a Colin in our congregation, but we have three or four people who could be combined in to him. Including the booze at the back of the church and threatening to beat people up for you.

Like others said its not uproariously funny - more light-hearted affectionate parody than either drama or slapstick. And the embarrassment factor is high. The "evangelicals" were pretty unrealistic, but it was obvious what kind of Christian they were getting at. I could hardly bear to look at the screen. Same goes for the lap-dancing club.

Maybe its not so much The Office transmogrified into the Church of England as The Royle Family. You recognise it and sometimes you wish you didn't.

The head-teacher got pretty decisively slapped down by her ex-pupil didn't she? "You said I'd never amount to anything?"

quote:

"O 'Melia, my dear, this does everything crown!
Who could have supposed I should meet you in Town?
And whence such fair garments, such prosperi-ty?"
"O didn't you know I'd been ruined?" said she.

"You left us in tatters, without shoes or socks,
Tired of digging potatoes, and spudding up docks;
And now you've gay bracelets and bright feathers three!"
"Yes: that's how we dress when we're ruined," said she.



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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Panda
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# 2951

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quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
... Just realised where I know Nigel from - he was Archie from Balamory!

Of course! He's very similar in character, I find.

Does Adam dress like a tramp? We've only seen him in a clerical shirt or cassock (39-button, mind!) so far. Some of my other half's clerical shirts are getting a bit faded - perhaps those ones need culling.

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Tree Bee

Ship's tiller girl
# 4033

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I'm becoming fond of Adam.
When I see him all stubby and vulnerable in his cassock I get all maternal!
What a David he is against various recognisable modern Goliaths.
Any laughs are a bonus.

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"Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple."
— Woody Guthrie
http://saysaysay54.wordpress.com

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Thurible
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# 3206

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quote:
Originally posted by Panda:
Some of my other half's clerical shirts are getting a bit faded - perhaps those ones need culling.

An ordained friend swears by washing them with black dye every so often.

Thurible

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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."

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The Weeder
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# 11321

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I have no problems with the lack of laughs. I just think it is pointless. Neither a Comedy or a Drama. And not particularly interesting.
I will not bothe watching again.

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Still missing the gator

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Angloid
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# 159

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quote:
Originally posted by Panda:

Does Adam dress like a tramp?

It's that oversized jumble-sale overcoat that does it. But he needs to be a contrast with the Savile Row tastes of the Archdeacon.

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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!

Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Chorister

Completely Frocked
# 473

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quote:
Originally posted by The Weeder:
I have no problems with the lack of laughs. I just think it is pointless. Neither a Comedy or a Drama. And not particularly interesting.
I will not bothe watching again.

Well it makes me think, 'What should a priest do in that situation?' and 'What would I do in that situation, if it were my church?' - both valuable questions, I think.

After watching this week's REV, I opened the church times and saw that a church in Oxford had been objecting to a lap dancing club opening near the church. So certainly a topical subject. Perhaps it all depends on context - the vicar of Soho would have a different answer to the question than the vicar of Budleigh Salterton.

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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.

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The Weeder
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# 11321

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Yes, Chorister, but is it entertaining? I think not. I will be suprised if it gets a second series.

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Still missing the gator

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Angloid
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# 159

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I think you're in a minority there, Weeder. Chacun à son goût.

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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!

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+Chad

Staffordshire Lad
# 5645

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Is 'one' a minority, or a singularity?

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Chad (The + is silent)

Where there is tea there is hope.

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Earwig

Pincered Beastie
# 12057

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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
- the liturgy and vestments and general conduct of the church services are real. That's how real Anglicans really behave in church. I found myself almost automatically making the responses. I never got that from The Vicar of Dibley or the scenes set in church in other soap operas or dramas. (Even the great Cracker got church life wrong - as does The Archers, though its not so bad)

Yup, me too - I accidently joined in with Morning Prayer in one episode, earning very odd looks from my boyfriend. [Hot and Hormonal]
Posts: 3120 | From: Yorkshire | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
Saviour Tortoise
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# 4660

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quote:
Originally posted by Earwig:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
- the liturgy and vestments and general conduct of the church services are real. That's how real Anglicans really behave in church. I found myself almost automatically making the responses. I never got that from The Vicar of Dibley or the scenes set in church in other soap operas or dramas. (Even the great Cracker got church life wrong - as does The Archers, though its not so bad)

Yup, me too - I accidently joined in with Morning Prayer in one episode, earning very odd looks from my boyfriend. [Hot and Hormonal]
This was the first thing that really made me pay attention to the show.

The liturgy is smack on accurate. The issues are real issues. The people are real (carictatures, sure, but I recognise them.) Adam is a real vicar. This is a real church. It's so real I assumed the writers must have been CofE regulars. I was very suprised and impressed when I discovered they'd done this through proper research.

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Baptised not Lobotomised

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