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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Heaven: What did you think of REV?
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
this week the spent £900 for new vestments and a fancy capuccino machine,it made me wonder where the parish was getting it's money from?
Well Darren gave them 10 grand a couple of weeks ago. Some of that went to window and the parish share I believe but I expect there's some left over.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Jemima the 9th
Shipmate
# 15106
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
I'm afraid I also caught the first ten minutes of the second episode. Tell me, does Darren end up being shredded in an industrial waste recycling machine? Or is that just the way I'd write the script?
Sadly, no ![[Biased]](wink.gif) although I'm pleased to report that episode 2 does end reasonably cheerfully. I think it was far better than episode 1 too.
Posts: 801 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2009
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Lola
Ship's kink
# 627
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Even the scenes of the church interior seemed to communicate a feeling of cold and damp through my computer screen.
I think thats deliberate and down to the lighting - there are some "making of" clips on the Rev site and in these the church building is bright and sunny and much cheerier!
Posts: 951 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2001
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RadicalWhig
Shipmate
# 13190
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Posted
I wonder about Alex. Do you think she's deeply into the religion thing? I get the impression that she goes along with it because it is hubby's job. She accepts that it's quite an usual and demanding job, and probably a worthy one, but doesn't seem to be "practising Christian" herself. I can't imagine her in the Lawyer's Christian Fellowship, for example.
What do you think?
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Radical Whiggery for Beginners: "Trampling on the Common Prayer Book, talking against the Scriptures, commending Commonwealths, justifying the murder of King Charles I, railing against priests in general." (Sir Arthur Charlett on John Toland, 1695)
Posts: 3193 | From: Scotland | Registered: Nov 2007
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
I get the impression that Alex is 'normal CofE', but that she really loves Adam, and in loving him, loves his faith.
I can't imagine any of the Christian lawyers I know joining the Lawyers' Christian Fellowship.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Hawk
Semi-social raptor
# 14289
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Posted
I liked this episode far more. My favourite bit was the Archdeacon spending time preparing his pub food, even squeezing lemon onto the fish to season it. And then putting it aside without even tasting it! Brilliant.
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“We are to find God in what we know, not in what we don't know." Dietrich Bonhoeffer
See my blog for 'interesting' thoughts
Posts: 1739 | From: Oxford, UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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Hawk
Semi-social raptor
# 14289
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Posted
And regarding the Guardian review, its par for the course unfortunately. While their articles on Christianity are not always ignorantly scathing, their reviews of television and film just never 'get it'. Its got to the point where if their reviewer loathes a film I'll consider seeing it - I know it must be pretty good if the Guardian doesn't get it. Their reviewers do seem to be on a different planet from anyone else.
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“We are to find God in what we know, not in what we don't know." Dietrich Bonhoeffer
See my blog for 'interesting' thoughts
Posts: 1739 | From: Oxford, UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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sanityman
Shipmate
# 11598
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hawk:
And regarding the Guardian review, its par for the course unfortunately. While their articles on Christianity are not always ignorantly scathing, their reviews of television and film just never 'get it'. Its got to the point where if their reviewer loathes a film I'll consider seeing it - I know it must be pretty good if the Guardian doesn't get it. Their reviewers do seem to be on a different planet from anyone else.
I felt like that about Grauniad film reviews for a long time - thought they'd been getting better lately, but perhaps not.
Loving Rev though - it's really grown on me. I love the amount of affection the producers seem to have for Adam and his situation, and that it manages to be affirming without ever slipping into schmaltz. The last episode summed it up perfectly, even to the level of having Tom end where he started ("I hate that man!").
Is it just me, or does it remind anyone of a very peculiar practice?
- Chris.
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Prophesy to the wind, to the wind only for only the wind will listen - TS Eliot
Posts: 1453 | From: London, UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
What has happened to the Archdeacon's taxi? We haven't seen it for two episodes.
Has the Diocese been cutting back on his expense allowance?
Or is it the Archdeacon's own private taxi, and his chauffeur is on holiday/got nicked for driving without a licence/rebelled at being treated like a skivvy/gone over to Rome (or the Methodists)? Perhaps it's just in for a service and its MOT.
[ 21. July 2010, 14:00: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Yangtze
Shipmate
# 4965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
...the boxlike vicarages in the bleak urban wilderness....
Well I can see that vicarage from my kitchen window (actually to be truly accurate I can see the church roof it's next door to from my kitchen window) and I'll have you know that we're very up-and-coming round here these days. Less of your urban wilderness thank you very much. We have patisseries and trendy arty young twenty somethings setting up trendy bars now......
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Arthur & Henry Ethical Shirts for Men
organic cotton, fair trade cotton, linen
Sometimes I wonder What's for Afters?
Posts: 2022 | From: the smallest town in England | Registered: Sep 2003
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
The bit of London its set in is a lot posher than the bit I live in! (And Adam's vicarage is much nicer as well as much larger than the flat I live in as well - and very similar to our vicar's vicarage)
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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tessaB
Shipmate
# 8533
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sanityman:
Is it just me, or does it remind anyone of a very peculiar practice?
- Chris.
I loved that series! Yes, the down-played peculiarity is a bit like it. And the feeling that it is probably truer to life than one would like to really believe.
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tessaB
eating chocolate to the glory of God
Holiday cottage near Rye
Posts: 1068 | From: U.K. | Registered: Sep 2004
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Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by wilson:
quote:
Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
this week the spent £900 for new vestments and a fancy capuccino machine,it made me wonder where the parish was getting it's money from?
Well Darren gave them 10 grand a couple of weeks ago. Some of that went to window and the parish share I believe but I expect there's some left over.
I wouldn't have thought £10,000 would go far towards the parish share?
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
I wouldn't ave thought £10,000 would go far towards the parish share?
It might well be most of it for a church with a congregation that size. My guess is that a church with 30 regular attenders, so maybe 10-15 adults in full-time work, would probably be asked to pay somewhere between 10,000 & 20,000. Of course that no-where near covers the cost to the diocese of paying the parish priest, but that's the problem, isn't it?
We've got a much larger congregation (100-150) but our quota is not, I think, in six figures. (I'm not completely sure - I am not very good at staying awake when accounts are discussed at the PCC)
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yangtze:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
...the boxlike vicarages in the bleak urban wilderness....
Well I can see that vicarage from my kitchen window (actually to be truly accurate I can see the church roof it's next door to from my kitchen window) and I'll have you know that we're very up-and-coming round here these days. Less of your urban wilderness thank you very much. We have patisseries and trendy arty young twenty somethings setting up trendy bars now......
Sorry if my review has alarmed your local estate agents. Maybe it was the lighting again. But come on, really - that vicarage had all the aesthetic appeal of a shoe box. What is it about diocesan (alleged) architects that leads them to believe a vocation to parish ministry involves a willingness to live in a house they themselves wouldn't go within a hundred yards of?
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Yangtze:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
...the boxlike vicarages in the bleak urban wilderness....
Well I can see that vicarage from my kitchen window (actually to be truly accurate I can see the church roof it's next door to from my kitchen window) and I'll have you know that we're very up-and-coming round here these days. Less of your urban wilderness thank you very much. We have patisseries and trendy arty young twenty somethings setting up trendy bars now......
Sorry if my review has alarmed your local estate agents. Maybe it was the lighting again. But come on, really - that vicarage had all the aesthetic appeal of a shoe box. What is it about diocesan (alleged) architects that leads them to believe a vocation to parish ministry involves a willingness to live in a house they themselves wouldn't go within a hundred yards of?
And to believe you should be grateful for it!
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
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FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
I wouldn't ave thought £10,000 would go far towards the parish share?
It might well be most of it for a church with a congregation that size. My guess is that a church with 30 regular attenders, so maybe 10-15 adults in full-time work, would probably be asked to pay somewhere between 10,000 & 20,000. Of course that no-where near covers the cost to the diocese of paying the parish priest, but that's the problem, isn't it?
We've got a much larger congregation (100-150) but our quota is not, I think, in six figures. (I'm not completely sure - I am not very good at staying awake when accounts are discussed at the PCC)
You're thinking south of the river logic! We don't tax ER round here.
A north of the river standard vicar common fund ask would be around £64,000. A very poor area might be expected to raise £40k, with a plan to increase it to £50k over a period of years, and grow the congregation.
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by FreeJack:
A very poor area might be expected to raise £40k, with a plan to increase it to £50k over a period of years, and grow the congregation.
I'm so glad to be out of parish administration and fund-raising! But how is it feasible for a small poor congregation to contribute £40k a year to the parish share, let alone for all the other costs? That's a thousand pounds for each member, assuming a congregation of around 40, which is on the large size of average. In other words £20 a week for someone living on benefits or state pension.
I know this is getting purgatorial but the C of E is living in a fantasy world if it thinks this is either practical or just.
To get back to the OP: I squirm with grim recognition when I see the vicarage. Not that we've lived in one like that, but we've had the standard issue kitchen units. I can sympathise with Adeodatus's feelings, but would ask him 'doesn't it make you feel glad to have escaped?'
[ 21. July 2010, 21:04: Message edited by: Angloid ]
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tessaB:
quote:
Originally posted by sanityman:
Is it just me, or does it remind anyone of a very peculiar practice?
- Chris.
I loved that series! Yes, the down-played peculiarity is a bit like it. And the feeling that it is probably truer to life than one would like to really believe.
I was getting flashbacks to that series too.
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
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Boopy
Shipmate
# 4738
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Posted
Am I the only person who thinks the vicarage is acceptable and the kitchen units adequate?
OK it's not an attractive building, inside or outside - it has the aesthetic appeal of a cardboard box, but it is a reasonable size family home. And the kitchen units are basic but at least they all match and are clean and functional......and the kitchen is a reasonable size....and there is a downstairs loo as well as upstairs...the living room whilst horribly furnished looked quite spacious......
Compared with modern expectations of middle class comfort I suppose it's a bit basic, but compared with a lot of inner city living accommodation I think it starts to look pretty good. And I speak as one who has lived in church-owned accommodation in which maintenance, fixtures and fittings and decoration had been done very much on the cheap, but it did have the advantage of being reasonably spacious (considerably more so than the homes of most of the congregation).
What are reasonable expectations to have of vicarage accommodation?
Posts: 1170 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
To get back to the OP: I squirm with grim recognition when I see the vicarage. Not that we've lived in one like that, but we've had the standard issue kitchen units. I can sympathise with Adeodatus's feelings, but would ask him 'doesn't it make you feel glad to have escaped?'
Seriously, I count myself very blessed and very lucky to have had the opportunity to get out of parish ministry and into a very different career. Parish ministry was not-very-slowly but surely destroying me, and I couldn't have lasted much longer. "Rev" is a good, light comedy, but for me it brings back some very uncomfortable memories.
I watched episode 2 last night. It was good to see Adam standing up for himself a bit against Darren, and very funny when Darren completely lost his cool and childishly mimicked Adam's "seventy times seven".
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
But how is it feasible for a small poor congregation to contribute £40k a year to the parish share, let alone for all the other costs? That's a thousand pounds for each member, assuming a congregation of around 40, which is on the large size of average. In other words £20 a week for someone living on benefits or state pension.
The cost to the dioceses of an incumbent (stipend, pension, housing, training) in my part of the world is about £50k a year. There is a considerable degree of cross-subsidy between parishes, but it can still represent a heavy demand for a small congregation. In rural areas round here that leads to multi-church incumbencies.
The Church of England would like more clergy than it has got, and more than it can afford to pay for. The pinch is recognised all round which is one reason why it is cutting back on clergy pensions, and the aspiration some years ago of a real terms increase in the stipend. In my area at least the level of the stipend presupposes that in a family with two children at school there will be a second income for the household not to fall below the Minimum Income Standard for UK households.
There is a nasty gap in the middle between what the church can afford to pay, the number of clergy it wants and observing the principle that the labourer is worthy of his/her hire. (
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Emma Louise
Storm in a teapot
# 3571
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
. In my area at least the level of the stipend presupposes that in a family with two children at school there will be a second income for the household not to fall below the Minimum Income Standard for UK households.
I've had a look at that site before and I think many middle class families would fall below the "minimum income standard" if they didn't have a second income. Unfortunately in this day and age 2 incomes (often with one part time) is the norm rather than the exception (to meet those standards at least which include holidays etc) apart from those with *very* well paid jobs, especially once kids are school age its quite unusual to have a stay at home parent now.
Certainly most families I know do not have the luxury of a stay-at-home-parent for long, and that's degree educated teachers, OTs, etc.
Posts: 12719 | From: Enid Blyton territory. | Registered: Nov 2002
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
Yes. I think you are right. Round here (assuming a fairly basic rented property for a family of four) a single earner in the household would need to be earning about £39,000 p.a. to meet the minimum income standard. That is roughly in the top 40% of earners.
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Yangtze
Shipmate
# 4965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Yangtze:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
...the boxlike vicarages in the bleak urban wilderness....
Well I can see that vicarage from my kitchen window <snip> I'll have you know that we're very up-and-coming round here these days.
Sorry if my review has alarmed your local estate agents. Maybe it was the lighting again. But come on, really - that vicarage had all the aesthetic appeal of a shoe box. What is it about diocesan (alleged) architects that leads them to believe a vocation to parish ministry involves a willingness to live in a house they themselves wouldn't go within a hundred yards of?
Oh I agree, the house is ugly. But functional. Assume cost is the contributing factor to why architects are prepared to build such things. Though it's actually pretty pleasant compared with some of the local post-war architecture round here (though not the neighbouring Victorian terraces). Mind you the church it serves is a big, ugly, late Victorian barn of a place.
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Arthur & Henry Ethical Shirts for Men
organic cotton, fair trade cotton, linen
Sometimes I wonder What's for Afters?
Posts: 2022 | From: the smallest town in England | Registered: Sep 2003
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
My wages are far higher than that "Minimum Income Standard". But I would not possibly be able to afford to buy a house like the one the Rev lives in in the part of London I live in, which is one of the cheaper areas in London. In fact I couldn't afford a house round here at all
Checking some house sales websites, Shoreditch seems to be about half as expensive again as Lewisham (rather cheaper than I would have guessed and bloody good value for somewhere so near to the City) But still utterly out of the range of anyone without either lots of money in the bank or a very high income.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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St Everild
Shipmate
# 3626
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Posted
I liked the wallpaper (not!) in Adam's sittng room - you could see when the previous occupant's pictures had been...
Posts: 1782 | From: Bethnei | Registered: Dec 2002
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by FreeJack:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
I wouldn't ave thought £10,000 would go far towards the parish share?
It might well be most of it for a church with a congregation that size. My guess is that a church with 30 regular attenders, so maybe 10-15 adults in full-time work, would probably be asked to pay somewhere between 10,000 & 20,000. Of course that no-where near covers the cost to the diocese of paying the parish priest, but that's the problem, isn't it?
We've got a much larger congregation (100-150) but our quota is not, I think, in six figures. (I'm not completely sure - I am not very good at staying awake when accounts are discussed at the PCC)
You're thinking south of the river logic! We don't tax ER round here.
A north of the river standard vicar common fund ask would be around £64,000. A very poor area might be expected to raise £40k, with a plan to increase it to £50k over a period of years, and grow the congregation.
When I was in East London, which was a deprived urban area ( admittedly in Chelmsford diocese, not London ), the big church I attended paid 30K pa ( edging up to 40k ), but the smaller church that was under our wing paid 9K. And that was a struggle.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yangtze:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Yangtze:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
...the boxlike vicarages in the bleak urban wilderness....
Well I can see that vicarage from my kitchen window <snip> I'll have you know that we're very up-and-coming round here these days.
Sorry if my review has alarmed your local estate agents. Maybe it was the lighting again. But come on, really - that vicarage had all the aesthetic appeal of a shoe box. What is it about diocesan (alleged) architects that leads them to believe a vocation to parish ministry involves a willingness to live in a house they themselves wouldn't go within a hundred yards of?
Oh I agree, the house is ugly. But functional.
It looks pretty much like our vicarage in posh Clifton.
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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sanityman
Shipmate
# 11598
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
It looks pretty much like our vicarage in posh Clifton.
You should have seen the student house I used to live in in Clifton!
- Chris.
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Prophesy to the wind, to the wind only for only the wind will listen - TS Eliot
Posts: 1453 | From: London, UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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Andromeda
Shipmate
# 11304
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Posted
Loved the latest episode again.
Olivia Colman is brilliant in it.
Posts: 57 | From: South Wales | Registered: Apr 2006
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Please those comparing vicarages with their own homes realise that you are not comparing like with like. The vicarage is intended to be a place of work for the vicar as well as his and his families home. Also if you think that when a vicar at about 8pm on Saturday night (I wish this was a caricature) gets down to finally writing his sermon, he goes and sits in the cold vestry in the church rather than puts a pot of coffee on the stove and go into his study in the relative warmth of vicarage study then I am not sure quite which planet you are on.
The study and the downstairs loo(for the convenience of parishioner really) are actually due to that these are seen as part of what a vicar needs to conduct his role. It is a requirement of the job although my parents down stairs loo was in an outhouse so I suspect church members went upstairs like the rest of the family.
There is an expectation that some meetings will be held at the manse, that the minister when at home will be available for pastoral need (basically equivalent to on call for doctors) and having the vicarage near a church is to facilitate such requirements.
So yes the house is larger than probably the average family have in the area. Then your average family home is not also business premises.
Really you should know better, its the vicar only works on Sundays in another guise.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
I love their description of the Archdeacon: ' a stage villain who swishes into each episode to spread crisp, prissy menace, like Malcolm Tucker minus the swearing. '
More like Mandelson I think.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Boopy
Shipmate
# 4738
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Please those comparing vicarages with their own homes realise that you are not comparing like with like. The vicarage is intended to be a place of work for the vicar as well as his and his families home. Also if you think that when a vicar at about 8pm on Saturday night (I wish this was a caricature) gets down to finally writing his sermon, he goes and sits in the cold vestry in the church rather than puts a pot of coffee on the stove and go into his study in the relative warmth of vicarage study then I am not sure quite which planet you are on.
The study and the downstairs loo(for the convenience of parishioner really) are actually due to that these are seen as part of what a vicar needs to conduct his role. It is a requirement of the job although my parents down stairs loo was in an outhouse so I suspect church members went upstairs like the rest of the family.
There is an expectation that some meetings will be held at the manse, that the minister when at home will be available for pastoral need (basically equivalent to on call for doctors) and having the vicarage near a church is to facilitate such requirements.
So yes the house is larger than probably the average family have in the area. Then your average family home is not also business premises.
Really you should know better, its the vicar only works on Sundays in another guise.
Jengie
I think you are describing a situation which used to be a universal expectation of clergy/minister accommodation but no longer is. I too have lived in a manse and have had friends who lived in vicarages; I'm aware that in part it is designed as a place of work. However, there is no longer always an expectation that meetings would be held there, particularly where there are children and it's primary a family home; this really is something that varies from church to church nowadays. Yes,as a place of work and therefore there needs to be a study - but nowadays the pattern of work for a great many middle class families also involves having a study/office in the home so this is no longer something specific only to the role of a vicar. I think the comparison with other homes is a valid one and I stand by my point that the vicarage in Rev is probably better accommodation than that available to most of his congregation. To maintain this is in no way to denigrate the work that a vicar does (I'm not sure where your 'vicar works on sundays in disguise' comment comes from but I don't think that has been implicit in the discussion until you introduced it).
Plenty of modern vicarages are not right next to the church and not externally identifiable as vicarages so the 'on call at the door' expectation doesn't always apply to the extent that it would have when all vicarages were next to the church and could be easily identified.
It sounds to me as if you are describing the vicarage of your childhood and I do think things have changed somewhat; though no doubt there are plenty of examples remaining of the scenario you describe.
Posts: 1170 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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RadicalWhig
Shipmate
# 13190
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Andromeda:
Olivia Colman is brilliant in it.
Brilliant, dreamy, gorgeous, sexy and rapidly turning me into the sort of drooling hound who tries to hump peoples' legs. (Ok, that's enough. I'll stop now. Promise. Just don't mention the lovely and adorable Olivia Colman, and I'll be ok).
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Radical Whiggery for Beginners: "Trampling on the Common Prayer Book, talking against the Scriptures, commending Commonwealths, justifying the murder of King Charles I, railing against priests in general." (Sir Arthur Charlett on John Toland, 1695)
Posts: 3193 | From: Scotland | Registered: Nov 2007
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Mr Clingford
Shipmate
# 7961
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Posted
Olivia Coleman. But I much prefer the Headteacher.
I enjoyed this episode more than the last one. But more Archdeacon in a taxi.
[ 24. July 2010, 01:38: Message edited by: Mr Clingford ]
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If only.
Posts: 1660 | From: A Fleeting moment | Registered: Jul 2004
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
I think things are changing, Boopy. But it is still the case that the size and design of clergy housing is based on the assumption that one of the living rooms needs to be large enough for a small meeting, and that another (usually) downstairs room will be the main place of work for the clergy person (and quite often the parish office as well). There are still plenty of places where the parish's expectation matches the design of the house, and "we always used to have a garden party in the vicarage garden"... It is changing, but it is sometimes not much fun being at the cutting edge of that change.
However grand the house may be, it is only worth as much to those living in it as they would choose to spend on suitable accommodation for themselves. The most recent official estimate is that it is worth £9680 p.a. gross. Obviously the actual value varies from place to place. Where property prices are high then it is worth more, but clergy on the level of income they receive would not choose/be able to buy in those areas. That is why housing is provided and clergy are required to live in it.
Even living 5-10 minutes walk from the church, the clergy house is well known to the community's 'Colins'. Other callers at the door are rarer in these days of ubiquitous telephones, but it is not uncommon to have a phone call that goes something like. "I would like to see your church. How can I do that...", "Where are you?" "Standing outside the church..."
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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+Chad
Staffordshire Lad
# 5645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
I love their description of the Archdeacon: ' a stage villain who swishes into each episode to spread crisp, prissy menace, like Malcolm Tucker minus the swearing. '
More like Mandelson I think.
Oh, no! The Archdeacon has style, and, I think, underneath it all, integrity.
Not a word that springs easily to mind when thinking of the Dark Lord.
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Chad (The + is silent)
Where there is tea there is hope.
Posts: 2698 | From: The Backbone of England | Registered: Mar 2004
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Every one is presuming by meetings that I mean formal church meetings. I don't on the whole. I mean far smaller ones than that which are probably the majority of meetings held at the manse, for example: Preparations for Weddings or Baptisms, Pastoral care meetings even if done over the phone can necessitate a quick exit to the study and informal meetings with officers of the church e.g. church wardens. These are meetings which rarely have more than two or three present beside the cleric. Don't require a large living room but do require a room outside the general family space.
Jengie
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Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by +Chad:
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
I love their description of the Archdeacon: ' a stage villain who swishes into each episode to spread crisp, prissy menace, like Malcolm Tucker minus the swearing. '
More like Mandelson I think.
Oh, no! The Archdeacon has style, and, I think, underneath it all, integrity.
Not a word that springs easily to mind when thinking of the Dark Lord.
I realise that! I think you're right about the AD's integrity. Nevertheless superficially he is much closer to Mandelson than Tucker.
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Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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+Chad
Staffordshire Lad
# 5645
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Posted
I take your point, Fr A.
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Chad (The + is silent)
Where there is tea there is hope.
Posts: 2698 | From: The Backbone of England | Registered: Mar 2004
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
quote:
I'm aware that in part it is designed as a place of work. However, there is no longer always an expectation that meetings would be held there
I think that's true, for various reasons. Among those reasons are that the room for holding meetings is embarrassing - the carpet has been there from the early 60's, so it smells now. The last vicar kept 300 cats before his final breakdown, and eau de cat piss still invades every corner of the house. The ceiling is stained with water from the leaking shower and the hole in the corner still has water dripping out of it, from God know's where! There are four floorboards missing from the centre of the room, but because they are covered in carpet you have to warn every visitor not to step there lest they disappear mysteriously. That suite of furniture Ms Crabby donated really should have gone to the dump a few decades ago. In summer the room is 'pleasantly cool', but your pictures on the wall have become the epicentre of damp, mildew and rot. In winter the fireplace unfortunately can't be used, but heat comes in the form of a portable heater that goes into the only plug in the room, but this is tempered by windows with ventilation on a windy night that feels like sitting in a wind tunnel and sends the curtains horizontal.
So yes, things have changed in parishes. Now they have meetings in the collapsing church hall with vinyl flooring, strobe lights and electric heaters, because it's more cosy there and they never have to look at the state of many a neglected vicarage.
[ 24. July 2010, 13:29: Message edited by: fletcher christian ]
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by +Chad:
Oh, no! The Archdeacon has style, and, I think, underneath it all, integrity.
I think the AD has a lot of integrity, but is also a politician, and someone under a lot of political pressure from all sides. Just like a real AD. Keeping his integrity under those circumstances is really problematic, which is why I think he sometimes comes over rather distant.
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Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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dorothea
Goodwife and low church mystic
# 4398
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Posted
Re: comments on Guardian review.
Despite the main TV critics lukewarm reception, there's been some really good plugs in 'The Guide' section on Saturdays, which are reprinted on the 'today's telly' section on Mondays. That's what put me on to Rev in the first place.
J
[ 25. July 2010, 12:19: Message edited by: dorothea ]
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Protestant head? Catholic Heart?
http://joansbitsandpieces.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1581 | From: Notlob City Limits | Registered: Apr 2003
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MrsDoyle
Shipmate
# 13579
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Posted
Whatever your opion of the series, the sentence (delivered well) "the tintinnabulation of a pregnant thurible" calls forth much respect, just for it's construct.
Posts: 343 | From: Manchester.England | Registered: Apr 2008
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dorothea
Goodwife and low church mystic
# 4398
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Posted
Another good episode but only Jonathan Harvey could have worked in such a unbelievably outrageous, school yard level female anatomy/fish joke.
J
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Protestant head? Catholic Heart?
http://joansbitsandpieces.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1581 | From: Notlob City Limits | Registered: Apr 2003
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Yangtze
Shipmate
# 4965
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Posted
quote:
"I've been Baptised, not Lobotomised" - the Archdeacon
Brilliant
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Posts: 2022 | From: the smallest town in England | Registered: Sep 2003
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
quote:
Originally posted by wilson:
quote:
Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
this week the spent £900 for new vestments and a fancy capuccino machine,it made me wonder where the parish was getting it's money from?
Well Darren gave them 10 grand a couple of weeks ago. Some of that went to window and the parish share I believe but I expect there's some left over.
I wouldn't have thought £10,000 would go far towards the parish share?
Well this probably shows my lack of knowledge of Anglican finances. I'd kind of got the impression the "parish share" was a monthly or quarterly payment. The subsequent discussion on this thread seems to imply it's a yearly thing.
Anyway. Tonight's episode was great. I really felt for Adam - both in his loneliness and his jealousy. It was really well portrayed, it felt achingly real. The more I watch Rev the more it feels like quite a dark psychological drama about the difficulties of parish life - with the odd joke thrown in. (Except it's more than the odd joke but you know what I mean).
Of course all great comedy is very close to tragedy.
OK Question: is 'Pope-ing' generally felt to be such a betrayal? It seemed like there was a terrible sense of hurt and anger there.
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