|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Hell: Mogwai joins the Daily Mail's crusade to kill babies
|
Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Just noticed crosspost. We have a local school for the non-immunized (I think they're JWs). Every couple years or so they have a massive outbreak of something horrid like whooping cough or measles. Usually a few wind up hospitalized, and then it spreads into the community. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
Hence the need for, ahem, stringent security measures.
--------------------
"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Just got another jab for whooping cough, tetanus and flu (seasonal). I WISH I could have gotten the swine flu jab but it isn't available here yet. Which is why I'm down with the bloody swine flu this week. AND going absolutely bonkers with boredom here, since being a halfway responsible idiot, I'm not going to go out and spread my germs to an unvaccinated population. (I'm going to be REALLY annoying on Ship this week.)
But hey! Now that you have the Piggy Sniffles, you don't have to get the H1N1 jab that's not even available to medical workers yet!
(Did I forget to mention that I'm on our hospital's H1N1 Response Team? And how I'm looking at the many, many, MANY hours of OT as that much more towards my house down payment? And that I have one of these on my desk that I punch periodically?)
[ 20. October 2009, 17:24: Message edited by: Spiffy ]
--------------------
Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
Mousethief, consider yourself breathed upon. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Actually, I WILL have to get that jab, simply because the doctors can't be sure swine flu is what I have. Although I've had the seasonal job,Hnwhatever is rampant around here, and if it oinks like a pig...
On the positive side, I just chased off one of those door-to-door "fix your driveway, lady?" types by telling him through the chain I had the flu. Now THAT got rid of him quick. ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
Oh great, Spiffy. Now my little monster here (also home sick) has fallen in love with the plush microbes and is adding to his Christmas list.
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Figbash
The Doubtful Guest
# 9048
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Oh great, Spiffy. Now my little monster here (also home sick) has fallen in love with the plush microbes and is adding to his Christmas list.
It could be worse: he could have asked for a plush shoggoth.
Posts: 1209 | From: Gashlycrumb | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Figbash:
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Oh great, Spiffy. Now my little monster here (also home sick) has fallen in love with the plush microbes and is adding to his Christmas list.
It could be worse: he could have asked for a plush shoggoth.
Wouldn't "crushing the frantic penguins" be a fabulous name for a rock band?
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
Well, he decided to pass on the Shoggoth, but he DID tell me he needed to check out the site so he could "make his mind up." ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
|
Posted
I got my daughter a plush cthulu for Christmas last year, but this year she wants a brain cell
But more seriously, and speaking of my daughter. I remember how happy her doctor was when we told him we were having her get the cervical cancer vaccine. I can't imagan why any parent of a daughter could possibly be against that. The arguments that it somehow promotes sexual activity make no sense to me... even if a girl was totally monogamous, she could get it from her husband if he hadn't been in his past. Or of course, there's always the fear of what can be passed on through rape.
--------------------
On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Atheist
Arrogant Bastard
# 12067
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
Anti-vaxxers should be sterilized and then shipped to an island with all of the measles, mumps, smallpox, flu and polio the world can find. They do not deserve to live.
I don't think you go far enough.
We should inject them with the diseases so they can build immunity - that's how it works, isn't it?
Posts: 2044 | From: Auckland | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
ianjmatt
Shipmate
# 5683
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Atheist:
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
Anti-vaxxers should be sterilized and then shipped to an island with all of the measles, mumps, smallpox, flu and polio the world can find. They do not deserve to live.
I don't think you go far enough.
We should inject them with the diseases so they can build immunity - that's how it works, isn't it?
The thing is (and I say this as someone who's kids are all vaccinated, and my twelve year old will be getting the HPV vaccine), this sort of hellish rant is well and dandy, but it doesn't change a damn thing. How do you actually and really change people's minds? (Sorry - not very hellish ... I'll go back to purg soon).
--------------------
You might want to visit my blog:
http://lostintheheartofsomewhere.blogspot.com
But maybe not
Posts: 676 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
|
Posted
excellent idea for a Purg thread, ian. if you start it I'll participate.
--------------------
Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ianjmatt:
How do you actually and really change people's minds?
Build a mind-control ray, duh.
--------------------
Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Emma Louise
Storm in a teapot
# 3571
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Presbyopic:
If you've ever watched a little baby struggling with Whooping Cough, you would get very pissed at fear mongering statements like that.
Yup.
Was horrid enough as an adult (see Spiffy's account) but terrifying to see a baby regularly turning blue as they can't breath.
Posts: 12719 | From: Enid Blyton territory. | Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
Anti-vaxxers should be sterilized and then shipped to an island with all of the measles, mumps, smallpox, flu and polio the world can find. They do not deserve to live.
Yeah, but tell us what you really think! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
quote:
Originally posted by ianjmatt:
How do you actually and really change people's minds?
Build a mind-control ray, duh.
Actually, negative reinforcement works best - beatings, torture, that sort of thing.
--------------------
--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alfred E. Neuman:
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
quote:
Originally posted by ianjmatt:
How do you actually and really change people's minds?
Build a mind-control ray, duh.
Actually, negative reinforcement works best - beatings, torture, that sort of thing.
Too many morons, not enough time. The name of the game is automation.
--------------------
Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
|
Posted
Coincidentally, I saw this in the news yesterday:
WHO: Nearly 1 in 5 babies still missed by vaccines
Though I suppose Mogwai thinks it's a good thing those countries are too poor to afford to vaccinate their children.
--------------------
On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
|
Posted
From the WHO report [PDF] Nicole mentioned:
quote:
By the 2020s, the strategies put in place to reach the [Millennium Development Goals] should have brought deaths among children under five years old to an all-time low. Polio should be eradicated, and measles eliminated in all countries. Neonatal and maternal tetanus should no longer be exerting such a heavy toll on babies and mothers, and today’s underused vaccines (against Hib disease, hepatitis B, and yellow fever) may have rid the world of the lethal burden of these diseases.
Those monsters!!! They're not even trying to hide their insidious agenda.
--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
|
Posted
No, no, Cro, you don't understand. It's all a lie. Those reductions in death and disease rates aren't due to the vacinations, they're due to... uh, um...
er...? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
--------------------
On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Figbash
The Doubtful Guest
# 9048
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemrw:
Coincidentally, I saw this in the news yesterday:
WHO: Nearly 1 in 5 babies still missed by vaccines
Though I suppose Mogwai thinks it's a good thing those countries are too poor to afford to vaccinate their children.
And presumably Mogwai also thinks it absolutely spiffing that Polio has not been eradicated, as it should have been by now, but is instead a growing menace again.
And to answer your other point: isn't it obvious? The reduction in illness, the elimination of smallpox, the near elimination of polio, are all due to people aligning their chakras and their pineal glands with the Great Pyramid in the centre of the Earth. Allopathic medicine is not holistic and hence wrong.
Posts: 1209 | From: Gashlycrumb | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
|
Posted
just thought I'd chime in and add to Spiffy's account - I've had two* of the diseases you can get vaccinated for: one was despite the shots (nasty strain of whooping cough went through my village and two infants died) and the other was for something that the shots are available for now but weren't then - Hepatitis A. these aren't just "suck it up and deal" diseases - they're life threatening. and they're awful.
my kids get their vaccines on time and I'm thankful - incredibly thankful - they dont have to go through those diseases.
*three, if you count chicken pox. which sucked, but wasn't life threatening and I got a kitten from my mom for going through it. I was 5.
--------------------
Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
*three, if you count chicken pox. which sucked, but wasn't life threatening and I got a kitten from my mom for going through it. I was 5.
No fair - we never got tasty treats from our parents when we got sick. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Wilfried
Shipmate
# 12277
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Max.:
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif) I'm glad I live in a world where people have the freedom to vaccinate or not. If I didn't know better I would think your reaction would be because you make big bucks from working for a pharmaceutical company (which probably overcharges for vaccinations).
Max.
Yes they are free to opt out of vaccinations, but in that case they're also free, nay, required to opt their kids out of free public school. To benefit from the public good also requires one to pay ones share in it, through paying taxes, or by assuming the miniscule risk of a vaccine to protect all. Honestly, those folks who refuse the risk of a vaccine count on their kids staying safe because they count on others assuming that risk.
Maybe those folks don't deserve to die, but they don't deserve to participate in civil society. They want to stay free of all risk, everyone else in the world be damned? Fine, quarantine them in a sterile house. Seal it, and let them rot. They're free of vaccines, and any contact that might get them sick, and the rest of us are free of their me first above all the rest of the world be damned mentality.
Posts: 429 | From: Lefty on the Right Coast | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
|
Posted
A friend of mine has a "tweenage" daughter who had various neurological glitches of the sort normally associated with prematurity, but the girl was born full term. Her vision was deteriorating, and an older pediatric ophthalmologist recognized the problem as being from congenital rubella syndrome.
None of her other doctors had recognized it. They just don't see congenital rubella any more.
My friend had gotten pregnant while she was in India, where there is no herd immunity. Her own immunity had apparently dwindled. She didn't know she was pregnant, and didn't know she had gotten rubella.
Now her daughter has developed schizophrenia, which afflicts a huge proportion of people with congenital rubella, and her cognitive abilities are becoming increasingly impaired.
Other viral infections are associated with an increased risk of schizophrenia when the mother contracts them during the first trimester. Including influenza.
--------------------
I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Evangeline
Shipmate
# 7002
|
Posted
My Dad talks of his childhood in 1930s/40s Melbourne where polio victims were wheeled into the classroom on trolleys. Non immunisers don't remember these days becasue they've been brought up with the benefit of everybody else being vaccinated. I'm with Erin on this one, ok maybe I don't want them dead but I do want them quarantined from society.
quote:
Qlib, I don't like the "vulnerable category" thing. This flu seems to hit healthy people the hardest. Therefore healthy people, especially travelers, teachers, and others who might spread it should go first while there's a limited supply.
In Australia healthy people have been fine with the swine flu but it's been the vulnerable people who've died eg a pregnant woman and her baby, and those with other health issues and it has disproportionatly affected our indigenous population too. We always promote that those most at risk from a virus receive vax first.
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Liopleurodon
Mighty sea creature
# 4836
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
A friend of mine has a "tweenage" daughter who had various neurological glitches of the sort normally associated with prematurity, but the girl was born full term. Her vision was deteriorating, and an older pediatric ophthalmologist recognized the problem as being from congenital rubella syndrome.
None of her other doctors had recognized it. They just don't see congenital rubella any more.
My friend had gotten pregnant while she was in India, where there is no herd immunity. Her own immunity had apparently dwindled. She didn't know she was pregnant, and didn't know she had gotten rubella.
Now her daughter has developed schizophrenia, which afflicts a huge proportion of people with congenital rubella, and her cognitive abilities are becoming increasingly impaired.
Other viral infections are associated with an increased risk of schizophrenia when the mother contracts them during the first trimester. Including influenza.
Congenital rubella syndrome is also a known cause of autism. So the irony of people shunning vaccines because they don't want autistic kids would be hilarious if it weren't so pathetic and dangerous.
--------------------
Our God is an awesome God. Much better than that ridiculous God that Desert Bluffs has. - Welcome to Night Vale
Posts: 1921 | From: Lurking under the ship | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mr Clingford
Shipmate
# 7961
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
just thought I'd chime in and add to Spiffy's account - I've had two* of the diseases you can get vaccinated for: one was despite the shots (nasty strain of whooping cough went through my village and two infants died) and the other was for something that the shots are available for now but weren't then - Hepatitis A. these aren't just "suck it up and deal" diseases - they're life threatening. and they're awful.
Well, I had Hep A when I was 19 and it wasn't fun, but I didn't think the disease was life-threatening. It was hell though - I couldn't drink alcohol for 6 months. The Horror.
--------------------
Ne'er cast a clout till May be out.
If only.
Posts: 1660 | From: A Fleeting moment | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Evangeline
Shipmate
# 7002
|
Posted
quote:
but I didn't think the disease was life-threatening. It was hell though - I couldn't drink alcohol for 6 months. The Horror.
Just cos you didn't have a bad time doesn't mean the disease isn't life threatening. A childhood friend from my neighbourhood died at the age of 18 from hep A. She had a previously unknown congenital liver problem but when she conracted hep her liver just collapsed and she was dead in 2 days.
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
|
Posted
My mother was always very paranoid about making sure we kids were up-to-date on our tetnus shots, and having us get one if we were injured in a way that would make tetnus a possiblity. I never wondered why when I was a kid, but when I got older and found out other people weren't so particular about them, I wondered a little.
Then I found out. When she was a kid, a girl in her neighborhood died from tetnus. She overheard the whispered conversations of the adults that the kids weren't supposed to hear, about how terrible a death it was. The girl apparently screamed in pain for days until she finally died.
I guess my mother was traumatized by hearing about it, it was so bad.
--------------------
On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
just thought I'd chime in and add to Spiffy's account - I've had two* of the diseases you can get vaccinated for: one was despite the shots (nasty strain of whooping cough went through my village and two infants died) and the other was for something that the shots are available for now but weren't then - Hepatitis A. these aren't just "suck it up and deal" diseases - they're life threatening. and they're awful.
Well, I had Hep A when I was 19 and it wasn't fun, but I didn't think the disease was life-threatening. It was hell though - I couldn't drink alcohol for 6 months. The Horror.
So, Mr. Clingford, let me get your position straight here. You would rather suffer these symptoms for between one and three weeks and then not drink alcohol for six months rather than have a single jab and not suffer the illness at all?
I guess if you're into masochistically offering up suffering to the Lord, you'd take the former option.
--------------------
Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Atheist
Arrogant Bastard
# 12067
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ianjmatt:
The thing is (and I say this as someone who's kids are all vaccinated, and my twelve year old will be getting the HPV vaccine), this sort of hellish rant is well and dandy, but it doesn't change a damn thing. How do you actually and really change people's minds? (Sorry - not very hellish ... I'll go back to purg soon).
If you can point me to a plan which will change the mids of anti-vaxers, I'll take it on.
I long since figured I wouldn't try anything as silly as trying to change the minds of the ignorant scum who perpetrate anti-vax lies and hysteria. There is no point whatsoever, there are Himalayas of evidence to show that anti-vaxers are wilfully and dangerously ignorant in every way, so it's not as though logic will work.
Up against an opposition whose only tactics are lies and then bigger lies, what possible use is there in anything but abuse, scorn and derision?
If we're honest about it, anti-vaxers are far worse than paedophiles - a paedophile may destroy a few lives - anti-vaxers seek to destroy millions.
How do you think you'd react if a paedophile came to Hell and tried to justify why he should be allowed to fuck little boys? Maybe you would sit and try to rationalise, but I'll always take the line that paedophiles can be locked away while anti-vaxers should be shot.
Posts: 2044 | From: Auckland | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Atheist:
quote:
Originally posted by ianjmatt:
This sort of hellish rant is well and dandy, but it doesn't change a damn thing. How do you actually and really change people's minds?
If you can point me to a plan which will change the mids of anti-vaxers, I'll take it on.
*points to her mind control ray plan.*
--------------------
Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
I don't think you can change the anti-vaxers, necessarily, but we should have an eye toward their potential recruits, people who are not yet anti-vaxers, but might tip one way or the other. Perhaps some good evidence-based propaganda could counter the hyteria-based propaganda of the anti-vax idiots, and keep their ranks from swelling any more than necessary.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
|
Posted
So, Mousethief, you're saying that fighting against the idiocy and lies can act as an anti-vax vaccine?
I like it.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
That makes my head hurt.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
*three, if you count chicken pox. which sucked, but wasn't life threatening and I got a kitten from my mom for going through it. I was 5.
No fair - we never got tasty treats from our parents when we got sick.
yeah well, my mommy loves me.
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
Well, I had Hep A when I was 19 and it wasn't fun, but I didn't think the disease was life-threatening. It was hell though - I couldn't drink alcohol for 6 months. The Horror.
la-ti-fucking-da for you. I barfed for three weeks straight and ended up in the hospital with malnutrition, horrific dehydration, jaundice, a torn belly muscle and a whopping 36 pound weight loss which I couldn't exactly spare.
alcohol was the least of my worries.
--------------------
Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
The moronic inference from "Person X had experience Y and lived" to "experience Y isn't dangerous" is ... well ... moronic. If a disease is 80% fatal, coming up with the 20% who lived and saying, "See, they lived, it can't be all that bad!" is just stupid. It's fucking stupid. It's brain-the-size-of-a-cherrystone-clam stupid. And going from the 20% to ONE PERSON and using that as a reason why it isn't really dangerous ... words fail. It's in the "you should sell your head because a piece of burled wood that large can bring a lot of money" range.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Presbyopic
Shipmate
# 10596
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
just thought I'd chime in and add to Spiffy's account - I've had two* of the diseases you can get vaccinated for: one was despite the shots (nasty strain of whooping cough went through my village and two infants died) and the other was for something that the shots are available for now but weren't then - Hepatitis A. these aren't just "suck it up and deal" diseases - they're life threatening. and they're awful.
Well, I had Hep A when I was 19 and it wasn't fun, but I didn't think the disease was life-threatening. It was hell though - I couldn't drink alcohol for 6 months. The Horror.
Not all the diseases we vaccinate the population for are necessarily directly life threatening. For instance, Rubella is a relatively inconsequential disease to males and non pregnant females. But devastating to unborn foetuses. Likewise, mumps was a yucky few days of illness to me, but had I been a male, I might very likely be sterile now. We are vaccinated to avoid the future consequences of many diseases. Vaccinating against Hep A would avoid the possibility of future liver failure and the need for transplantation in some affected individuals.
Posts: 699 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mr Clingford
Shipmate
# 7961
|
Posted
Well, gosh, that was an exciting bunch of replies to my post - you guys didn't let me down. To go from my saying that my experience of Hep A was kind of mild to thinking that I therefore am an anti-vaxxer is one big unwarranted leap.
It was almost 20 years ago, when I was 19, that I had Hep A, symptoms like flu plus jaundice. It was very rare and I'm not sure that there was a vaccine back then. Even today I don't think that people in the UK are vaccinated apart from some vulnerable people so there is no herd immunity.
And not drinking alcohol for six months was serious ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
--------------------
Ne'er cast a clout till May be out.
If only.
Posts: 1660 | From: A Fleeting moment | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Atheist
Arrogant Bastard
# 12067
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I don't think you can change the anti-vaxers, necessarily, but we should have an eye toward their potential recruits, people who are not yet anti-vaxers, but might tip one way or the other. Perhaps some good evidence-based propaganda could counter the hyteria-based propaganda of the anti-vax idiots, and keep their ranks from swelling any more than necessary.
But that's already there!
There are hundreds and hundreds of papers, research reports and mountains of evidence, none of which is hard to find.
Anyone truly searching for facts on vaccines will find them easily - doctors aren't usually shy on the subject.
The worst thing about anti-vaxers is their self-delusion that they're actually championing people's rights.
Sick, sick, sick fuckers.
Posts: 2044 | From: Auckland | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
3M Matt
Shipmate
# 1675
|
Posted
Quick anectodal evidence:
In my medical career, I have seen 1 child die, and 1 child be seriously ill from not being vaccinated.
I have not yet seen any child with a significant problem from vaccination.
Meaningless sample perhaps...but the sort of people who believe the anti-vaccination crap put a lot more weight on anecdotes then studies.
--------------------
3M Matt.
Posts: 1227 | From: London | Registered: Nov 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
multipara
Shipmate
# 2918
|
Posted
Presbyopic, rubella might be a mild disease for male children but it can be a perfect stinker for adults. Sponsa came down with rubella at the age of 28, and developed the very typical acute arthritis ( mainly affecting small joints) which incapacitated him for some weeks. He was a 4th year medical student at the time. Our then 3 year old developed a mild infection (caught form Sponsa) which he hardly noticed; I picked the nodes at the back of his head and the minimal rash. Luckily I had been given the shot the day after firstborn's birth having been dopey enough to conceive with inadequate immunity (my parents were overseas in the late 60s when the shot became available so weren't there to consent to my being immunised while at the gulag).
I managed to catch the mumps 28 weeks into my 3rd pregnancy; it was complicated by meningitis but fortunately my now 25 year old daughter was none the worse for her exposure. God thing that it wasn't in the first trimester; I probably would have miscarried. Both first and seond born had the chickenpox 3 weeks before the birth of #3; I kept my knees together praying for them to get past the infectious stage before I delivered and luckily all went to plan. Chickenpox is also a shocker for adults, especially if wither pregnant or immunosuppressed.
30-odd years ago there was so much ill-founded talk about the pertussis vaccine causing epilepsy and brain damage that here in Oz the powers that be canned the rubella part of the triple vaccine for the 18 months and 5 year boosters. There was no objective evidence to back up that claim and we have paid dearly for the bureaucrats' decision to kowtow to the anti-immunisation brigade.
m
Posts: 4985 | From: new south wales | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
|
Posted
What annoyed me about the public policy about immunizations was that in my state (and many others) it was all or nothing.
You were legally allowed to say that you didn't believe in immunizations (end of discussion), or you had to buy into any and all of whatever the State decided was necessary.
So I was quite happy with infant innoculation for polio, diptheria, and especially tetanus for my kids, I had second thoughts about MMR and chicken pox.
But I wasn't allowed to choose; it was all or nothing.
I would have preferred to wait in hope of a mild childhood case of chicken pox, rubella, and measles. My understanding was that one had lifetime immunity after the mild childhood experience.
But it seems that this isn;t true? Details and Studies?
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Nunzia
Shipmate
# 4766
|
Posted
jlg,
From the National Library of Medicine website.
Rubella. Lifetime immunity after infection.
Chicken pox. One chance in ten of developing shingles as an adult after having chicken pox.
Measles is a bit more serious
as this Mayo clinic report attests which I found as one of the links from here.
--------------------
----- ---------. ---- - ---- ----.
Posts: 1903 | From: Crazy-glued to the ledge | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
From what I've heard, you really do not want shingles. Ergo you really do not want chicken pox.
And herd immunity is very important for rubella so that pregnant mothers who cannot be immunized are protected.
No reasons to avoid these immunizations seem good enough given the good reasons to get them.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
From what I've heard, you really do not want shingles. Ergo you really do not want chicken pox.
And herd immunity is very important for rubella so that pregnant mothers who cannot be immunized are protected.
No reasons to avoid these immunizations seem good enough given the good reasons to get them.
Hear it again; Mrs Sioni and my Mother have both had chicken pox and shingles. One of Mrs Sioni's neices had shingles at seven! Her idiot teacher said "No dear, you had chicken pox."
Shingles is nasty.
--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
|
Posted
As a child, whenever any of my friends went down with German Measles, I was taken round to play with them, but I never managed to catch it. My mother was very relieved when she learnt that I was going to get the Rubella jab in my first year at Secondary School.
--------------------
"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169
|
Posted
With H1N1 bearing down upon us, more and more Canadians are becoming dubious about the value of the vaccine and are refusing to get jabbed. Article here. I blame the moronic communications of our federal health minister and her department; as a comedian said the other night, "Go to their website and see how to bore, confuse, and panic people all at the same time. They can't even spell 'cough' correctly!"
In a casual conversation with other school parents this morning, none of the half-dozen planned to be immunized or have their children immunized.
I suppose part of the anti-vax appeal is to congratulate yourself for feeling brave and principled and not a "sheeple", unlike all those who believe what doctors and research scientists are saying.
Posts: 2786 | From: the electrical field | Registered: Oct 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Thread closed
Printer-friendly view
