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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Circus: Mafia on the Planet Dimthing Tourist Bus
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
I have been accused of many things in ze last few days - but "male"?
You may wish to speak with Ja'ayem as well. He keeps using the masculine pronoun. Please don't have him put to death for it. I'm sure it's an honest mistake.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
Must be one of those "Catherine le grand" things.
(Translation: Catherine the great, using a masculine particle for "the great", implying some sort of honorary masculinity.)
"Catherine and Elizabeth were not women; they were queens.*"
I've come to three conclusions over the past few hours:
1. Choey is guilty of not bringing out the open bar sooner. If she's responsible for keeping us thowed, I say we don't send her after the engine tonight.
2. Pour the shaving cream into the drunkie's hand, then use the feather to tickle their nose. When they sneeze, they'll instinctively cover their mouth. This works best if you don't put the shaving cream into the right hand of a southpaw.
3. Lesley's small insect has quite a bit to answer for. The blame for today's insanity should probably be ascribed to the lack of smoke inhalation after sunup. Therefore, in the interest of peace, etc. (and giving our soon to be dearly departed a good sendoff), I think it's time to put on a Radiohead/Floyd/Ens Commune mix, close the external vent fans, and breathe deep.
As for my preferred pronoun: "he/him/his" works—I refer to my sister sometimes, after all. Yes, any pronoun you pick is going to be equally inaccurate, so I won't be offended (nay, complimented) if you pick a different one, but I do usually choose to condense as generally male. Why? I've been told I have to pick—it causes less confusion among bipeds. Thems the Guidelines, and the Guidelines brook exceptions only under the most extenuating circumstances. And, just so you know, even these circumstances aren't extenuating. We Angeloi take our rules very seriously.
*A misquote of Simone de Beauvoir, Second Sex
[ 21. March 2014, 00:58: Message edited by: Ariston ]
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
Ios stirred. Her nose tickled! She swiped at it with the back of her hand and suddenly opened her eyes. There were John and Otto kneeling on each side of her backseat fluff bed, with anticipatory grins on their faces! Startled, she swatted at them with both hands, palms outward.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
On Dimthing day one, Zapaterietxe proposed we start by listing our three top suspicions. Here is what they were, with each busrider's name followed by their list of suspects.
Some people can count higher than three, so they listed more suspicions. I have converted instances of Otto's old name "John" into "Otto", but some of the Johns left on the list, whom I take to be Johns The Less (John The Lesses?) may actually be Ottos.
Top three suspicions:
Zapaterietxe: Choey, John, Hophtrig
Ja'ayem: Ios, Lucy, Eliabulon
Lady Celandine: Lovely Lesley, Eliabulon, Hophtrig
Lovely Lesley: Eliabulon, Hophtrig, Choey
Eliabulon: Joostein, Codine, John, Otto, Reppik, Daisy (all mostly on grounds of silence or unhelpfulness up to that point)
Hophtrig: Crimson, Otto, Lovely Lesley
John: (in no particular order) Codine, Lovely Lesley, Otto (all on grounds of being unrevealing up to that point)
Joostein: Eliabulon, Crimson, Codine, Otto (the last two on grounds of silence)
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
Also on Dimthing day one Zapaterietxe drew up a list of dangerous or suspicious behaviors. This included:
quote:
People who have advocated information sharing among detectives: Hophtrig
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People cooking up weird ideas: Hophtrig (self-nominating? Voting someone off two days later, rather than today?), me [that is, Zapaterietxe himself]
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Potential shitstirrers: Reppik Tew, Grafinn Eliabulon, Lesley
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Full of static: Hophtrig (talkative, annoying prat, if a bit better now…whether or not that's because of Possession); Grafinn Eliabulon (but what else do you expect from a Pavian noble—it's completely in character); Lesley (strange speech tics; little strategizing despite lots of words; a set of three suspects who had each been nominated by two of the previous three voters—so no originality—but perhaps trying to establish a trend early)
List of nominees, votes, nightly victims, and Heroes Of The Revolution Who Nobly Went In Search Of Our Engine to follow.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
The Engine
3 parts Ol' Janx Spirit
2 parts Hellene Xinomavro
2 parts Brancafernet
1 part Oinos di Methouton
Combine with ice, have nearest demicorporeal being align on a subatomic level for maximum effect. Chug. Let the taste overtake you before the effect does.
Use your powers to create objects out of any conveniently available matter to make more, then offer to "send someone after The Engine." For once, the euphemism is more unpleasant (at least on the next day) than the thing sounds like.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
I'm not sure quite what Hophtrig has in this bottle here. Hophtrig has made an experiment. Hophtrig was mixing things together and Hophtrig made something which smells a little like the sanitary facilities after use by the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal (After that visit, what with the aroma and an unfortunate incident with the other guest being eaten, the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast was never invited back on the Hophtrig show).
Let's play dares, I will give this piece of slightly sticky vinyl seat covering to the first person who is brave enough to drink Hophtrig's concoction! Which one of Hophtrig's friends wants to play?
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
Hophtrig, I can't have a drink right now. I'm searching the archives. Ah, here we go:
Nominees, votes, and deaths both by our collective hand and beyond our control:
Dimthing day one:
Nominations:
John nominates No Lynching
Joostein nominates Eliabulon
Eliabulon nominates Joostein
Zapaterietxe nominates Reppik Tew
Reppik Tew nominates Lovely Lesley
Votes:
Early votes before polls open:
Lady Celandine: No Lynching
Choey: No lynching
Votes after polls open:
Zapaterietxe: Reppik Tew
Lady Celandine: No Lynching
Ja'ayem: No Lynching
Otto: Joostein
Hophtrig: No Lynching
Eliabulon: Joostein
[Lovely Lesley invalidly votes for Hophtrig]
Lovely Lesley: No Lynching
Crimson: No Lynching
John: No Lynching
Codine: No Lynching
Ios: Joostein (this was a crosspost with Codine)
Joostein: No Lynching
Reppik Tew: No Lynching
Daisy shows up just before the polls close and pleads an attack of Real Lyfe. She asks whether her vote still can make a difference (it can't), and doesn't vote.
Result:
10 - No Lynching
3 - Joostein
1 - Reppik Tew
1 - No Vote Cast
The airlock stays closed.
Dimthing night one
Police Inspector Crimson is murdered.
Dimthing day two
Nominations:
Hophtrig nominates Otto
John nominates Reppik Tew
Otto nominates Hophtrig
Votes:
Choey: Hophtrig
Ja'ayem: Otto
Hophtrig: Otto
Zapaterietxe: Reppik Tew
Lady Celandine: Reppik Tew
Lovely Lesley: No Lynching
John: Reppik Tew
Ios: Reppik Tew
Otto: Reppik Tew
Joostein: Otto (to gather information about the people voting after him, he says)
Eliabulon: Reppik Tew
Reppik Tew: No Lynching
Daisy: Reppik Tew (mentions an imminent upcoming lengthy appointment with Real Lyfe)
Codine: Reppik Tew (cites a timing issue involving the Real Lyfe Leave Work Challenge and the Real Lyfe Arrive Home Challenge to explain her late vote)
Results:
8 - Reppik Tew
3 - Otto
1 - Hophtrig
2 - No Lynching
Possessed Symbiont (Unreadable) Reppik Tew is wrestled out the airlock by...
... Innocent Lovely Lesley
Dimthing night two
Detective Lady Celandine is murdered.
Dimthing day three
John nominates Otto
Joostein nominates Eliabulon
Choey nominates Hophtrig
Eliabulon nominates Joostein
Joostein claims to be the doctor.
John claims to be the doctor.
All hell breaks loose.
Votes:
Eliabulon: Joostein
Ios: Joostein
Choey: Joostein
John: Joostein
Ja'ayem: Joostein
Codine: Joostein
Hophtrig: Joostein
Otto: Joostein
Zapaterietxe: Joostein
Daisy: Joostein
Results so far:
10 - Joostein
1 - No Vote Cast Yet
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
quote:
Originally posted by Banner Lady:
Fourthly, if you are innocent and female, be very very scared. Looking at who we have lost, the odds are not in your favour. This suggests to me an aggressive male trio of baddies. And if that trio includes Zapaterietxe and the Grafinn we are in trouble. Best case scenario is that it includes only one of those two. Who survives the next black out will tell us much.
That is a very interesting observation. I don't know if correlation means causation in this case or not... worth a thought, anyway.
Seconded. Definitely worth a very long discussion afterwards.
It is a sample of 2 (3 if the mafia can reach out in RL) so it's not impossible to be chance.
And thinking of real life could be consistent with an all female mafia.
And of course the mafia are trying to be deceitful, which may be enough to make a stronger dent in casual sexism than the rest of us.
But it is interesting... (although now the mafia will definitely be aware of what signals they send-and we're back in quad bluff zone)
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
The baddies have gone with the goodies observed Otto to the FBC. The FBC shakes its feathery head and asks if it can bite a baddie. Otto wonders and wonders and wonders. Feels dishevelled and in need of a shower, makes his way toward to loo, but not singing this time, no, not singing. Tears are in Otto's eyes, he bangs his third leg on something rather hard and sharp. "Ouch, he says", and skulks off, limping and weeping. So frightened, so so frightened. The FBC is losing it's feathers and wants to sleep all the time, and Otto has BO.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
I'm accusing you of being sympathetic. And you could be innocent (nah). But it doesn't hurt you to have a bit more discussion going on regarding those you suspect or why. Could you refer back a bit, to your suspectees' behaviour and not just their general feel? Like to things they've done or said? And what would their guilt say of the rest of us? Who should go tomorrow when I'm proven guilty? Eliabulon?
We've had enough discussion, and I'm just taken out for being noisy and an interruption in the midst of investigating Otto and Eliabulon. You will probably get little more of Otto than last time. Assume that is so. Will you still vote for Eliabulon tomorrow? What are the conditions for you to vote for her?
Since you said above that you are trying to waste the time of the possessed, or rather those of us who you believe are so, I will not be going into great depth with many quotes that will take a long time to find. However, my short answer is that I haven't decided who should go tomorrow. Certainly your guilt or innocence will be relevant, but so will other people's reactions and arguments.
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A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
Prologue
I bet you're all wondering why I gathered you here…
I believe this is a rather unique occasion, so I shall set out a few guidelines for the upcoming posts. To begin with, all words here assumes that I am innocent. This will be proven guilty or false shortly, so does not need to be argued with. That is the benefit of this window in space, where I'm doomed but not dead. You can't go for player instead of ball. I will try to be brief because it will be a lot to read, and I want to pack as much punch as I can instead of getting lost in too many words. This means I will not be able to cover every single possible eventuality, but I shall do my best. Please bear with me.
In the interest of focusing on the right things, please do not respond at all to the first and second chapter which will hold mainly my recollection of what's been going on and why I did what I did. I fear that responses and comments on such things will take up space from the arguments. The situation is what it is and we have to do what we can from this point on. Being innocent, all I say is truth as it appears or appeared to me. In chapters three, four and five I will briefly cover the arguments I see against a certain three people, and my predictions and recommendations for the future.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
Chapter I
Snakes on a Bus.
At the outset of this, Dafyd (Thor and Odin's adopted love-child), set us up with 2 detectives, 1 doctor, 3 possessed and 1 sympathiser. This was interesting and odd, and should lead to a greater potential for a detective-based victory. It split the incentive to gain information against the likelihood of killing someone who could be immensely useful. I went in with a general deep suspicion of all usually strong players, seen in my listings then, and from the last game a general suspicion of folks who are trying to make themselves "too useful", like replacing argumentative posts with general lists of stats or maths than anyone can do but that looks like one is helpful. That's non-harmful for possessed to do. That, and a decision to object to bloat or overly generic posts (which claim to be useful, as opposed to entertaining posts which I can easily sort aside), drove me to suspect Eliabulon early on. Zapa also had unusual ratings at this point, but seemed innocent. With Eliabulon there were too many bells ringing: rules that anyone could figure out ("Don't die, detective!"), a post that left the reader with more questions regarding everyone rather than less and did not really take a stand against anyone, and most of all not a single reaction from the usually most reactive player of all to game rules, regarding the odd setup. So I nominated her.
Eliabulon responded with pride rather than logic, and instead of understanding logical points or at least explaining how they were good but mistaken, responded with an aggressive nomination out of thin air. This was very odd. I got sure that this was the one occasion when we'd spot Eliabulon from the start, because that was unbecoming of her previous nature and rigidity of mind seemed turned to frigidity. And Codine out of nowhere used the old trope "so you're saying he talks too much" to defend Eliabulon without actually facing mine and John's points. It seemed oddly related to how Zapa had previously defended Eliabulon. Zapa then repeated himself. I wanted to ask how Eliabulon should then be caught if guilty, but didn't. It seemed to be a lot of manipulation of words going on "he's really just saying this and here's why it's wrong", but it was hard to identify one source or direction. I was very suspicious of Eliabulon though, but decided to vote for no lynching out of principle, due to the different setup. I received three votes myself, and decided to lay a bit low and take a more defensive position. Zapa reiterated the "Pavian being Pavian" "argument" (not sure which deserves quotation marks the most) but I didn't notice that pattern per se - he was also arguing sanely a lot.
Crimson died. No surprise, happens often. She was the detective, which changed things. John joined those seeing my arguments as misunderstandings, and I was getting convinced myself. I was not sure why people were convinced about Reppik, but was happy to see him or Otto off rather than me, and they seemed expendable characters for information, and unlikely specialists. At voting, I was sure of no one but knew I had to keep my back clear, so went for considered but impartial vote for Otto to see what others would do. In an early vote, usually for information rather than throwing out evils, that was best. The vote made me look very bad, and Zapa and Eliab very good, meaning I was in a tough spot. I posted an explanation post and was very uncertain of what was going on, and suspected I was on my way out. However, I noticed a change in description of the past day, from "tactics change to info-lynching" to "having spotted a guilty one", giving some beings infinite credit, making them irrefutable. And then came That Day.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
Chapter II
Dr. Brain-Sprained
Celandine, the other detective, was lynched. Disaster. This post explains my thinking. For me, that was the only possible way things could hang together. Someone bright had to be on their side, and there were only two masterminds left. One of them had rung bells all along and left many questions unanswered. His double voting posts in the voting against Reppik had reserved his action space but made him look clean. Along with the rest of the arguments, this was the bluff the possessed would need to make to keep up in a hard game. I was not sure who number three and sympathiser were, but left for RealLyfe and when I returned, Codine had posted this, reminding me of her previous spins (see chapter 1), but worse - Eliabulon had been entirely silent despite being accused, and with nobody noticing this, the discussion seemed to lose energy and focus from her. With her counter-accusation of me (and me knowing that I'm innocent but looking bad), it seemed that the possessed were entirely in control of the game. John hoped for Zapa's logic, and the patterns got clearer - the "Pavian being Pavian" routine, the outlogicking manhandling of Choey and Lesley, the sacrifice placing them both on safe ground.
They were slipping out of a net of the greatest reasons I could see around in the game, due to my unfortunate vote against Otto and due to them being three to one, interspersing with one another and taking different angles. Have you noticed how Eliabulon and Zapa never cross-post, despite being the two most active writers in the thread? And yet I knew if I could only get one of them, I would have done my worth. The rest would fall into place. But I realized that I was too much of a player for them to play instead of the ball. I realized that there was indeed no way I could get out alive, so I decided that my sacrifice should come but that it had to take you as close to victory as possible.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
In the finale of a movie about the detective Sherlock Holmes, his assistant (coincidentally a doctor!) is faced with look-alikes at a diplomatic party, one of whom is a terrorist. They find the right one by doing something entirely unexpected, to which the guilty cannot respond as would be expected of them. I sought to wring control of the game out of their hands for a couple of brief moments, sparking some sort of fear into them and in the confusion force unexpected actions. Notice that I succeeded in clearing Ios from guilt in doing so, as her behaviour showed that she was taken aback by this. Eliabulon and Zapa, however, withdrew and refused to show anything - which was strange, in the middle of some of the most eventful moments of our days here on the bus. Eliabulon has asked me whom I would reveal myself as innocent for, and I will respond this: anyone but Eliabulon if faced with a single other doctor by time of voting, after giving it some time for another doctor to appear. There is no reason for me to lie, and no reason to distrust this. I made mistakes, some bad and some negligible (a revealed doctor can still be of use), but then even the best make mistakes.
So I went with Kipling and threw myself in, knowing full well I would have to die before the end of two days. I rushed in a few times, but then I was fighting Eliabulon, Zapa and Codine single-handedly. At some point I started thinking I might survive the day and get Eliabulon off, and then Zapa's cavalry arrived to use my guilt as the argument against the brazen accusations against Eliabulon. So I decided I'd have to yank and twist again, and decided to reveal him by how badly he must argue against me - note his lack of mentioning at that point that the arguments against Eliabulon were pretty dire, too. Going to the gallows myself was about being able to show, as I do now, that I was willing all along because they weren't, to pull them along down with me once you see how hard they had to push. That was my intention, and I hope you can see my reasons, even if you may disagree. My point is that I was not irrational, or at least there was method in't, and I am glad to have put the limelight on Zapa, Eliabulon and Codine, for I am as sure of their guilt as ever.
[Codefix. —A]
[ 21. March 2014, 17:09: Message edited by: Ariston ]
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
Chapter III
24 frames per second
Ladies, gentlemen and snakes,
This game has, as Ios pointed out, been bizarre. But it was bizarre even before I broke it. I shall touch upon some of the general reasons in this chapter, and then go down in more specific accusations in the 4th.
We have a game with 2 sheriffs and a doctor who can self-protect. This is, despite the number of possessed, an immense advantage. The possessed must give a virtuoso performance to stay alive. They must avoid the searchlights of the detectives and take them out quickly, and at the same time stay respectable to the others. They have managed to do so so far, as you can see. Our/Zapa's picks to take folks out have been wrong twice out of three times, in Leslie and me.
What I cannot get over however is how easy the first kill was. We have the most skilled possessed we have seen in a long time, and yet, they cannot write a decent defence speech for Reppik? This does not ring true. As for Otto, if he was in touch with the guilty, he'd have made a far better defence speech the first time around, as would Choey when she was almost offed before my distraction pointed the blowtorch in Eliabulon's face. And as you will see I have not manipulated the process in any interest of saving killers. That is what leads me to assume that Otto and Choey are innocent and that Reppik was not given proper attention by the evil genius - meaning a sacrifice.
But who would benefit from such a sacrifice? I won't go with just paranoidly claiming they control everything, but instead I think they wanted to control the detectives, to buy one or two more rounds of time if their guess was wrong - as it would be unwise to investigate those pointing out guilty ones as the first choice. And to achieve that goal, of becoming unread rather than unreadable, sacrificing the unreadable was an acceptable loss. Reppik was neither silent nor a high profiler, and as such unlikely to be investigated at first. I think it was a sacrifice that I would have been willing to make if I desired to become trusted, and I think with the numbers given, becoming trusted was more or less necessary to stay alive.
Furthermore, I would like to point to another thing: we are certain that there is an evil genius around, and yet we look for evil ones among the largest crowd (silents) we can find, instead of the smallest. It is easy to vote the three supposed geniuses (me, Zapa, Eliab) off, among them there should be at least one guilty and using that information we should be able to find the last one. Although I tell ya, it's Eliab and Zapa, both of them.
Furthermore, it should be added: Zapa has accused a few different people. However, I think my argument above, of lack of decent defense, can actually lift Otto and Choey somewhat from suspicion. Likewise, we know Leslie's identity, and we soon know mine as innocent. Mind you, Codine pointed out that we need a higher than 50 % ratio of possessed to innocents to be victorious. It's not going that well with Zapa in charge. How about we give him one more chance, and if he fails we take out that suspicious and suspected Grafinn that he's keeping behind his back? Or just Codine, because I'm more proven innocent than he is?
These are factors that I think look odd in general with the current structure of the game. I believe there will be long, bloated comments on this, but do return to this, because I am cleared by the time you read this. This is my response to the questions for specific narrative with reasons for actions. I cannot explain it all because three pigs up for shaving can squeal faster than I can throw them pearls of clarity (especially once I'm dead), but the key point is this: these are rather grave concerns. It may be wise to use one of the two chances you have left to actually try them out, no matter how well my opponents argue and howl.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
Chapter IV
Grabbing the players by their balls
I have suggested Eliabulon, Zapa and Codine for the airlocks, the former two for being possessed, the latter for being a sympathiser. My main case is with Eliabulon, as I think he is a key to the others. My main argument against him is this:
I can make a very good case against him using nothing new, but old charges that he has not answered despite having plenty of time to do so. So I shall bring forth your own charges against him. Today was an interesting day. About halfway through, John, you were convinced that Eliabulon was guilty. Then you turned after Zapa's apologia. You did right, most things pointed to that I was a certain guilty - but notice how Eliabulon has been strategically silent regarding his own innocence. When I knew I was innocent and risking looking guilty, I pointed to things that would clear me. Following the doctored claim situation, he was unusually silent, despite all the accusations. There may be RealLyfe issues, of course - but someone close to him also whispered something in my ear.
I would like to remind you all what caused those earlier suspicions, as well.
- Eliabulon admitted that she and I are not on the same side. This was not worth much, but it was concluded and nobody disagreed that it was unlikely to find two players where it was more likely that one was evil. This should still stand.
- Eliabulon refused, ran at the thought of doing what I shall be revealed to be doing, take the first step into the water if thinking the other is guilty. I know no one who would be so pragmatic as to sacrifice an innocent to put themselves in a winning position, but this time it was a no-go. What's so wrong with a bit of accountability at this point? Or with the fact that taking you out would give the most information regarding two others, Zapa and me? It would save us having to go through the rest of us one by one. And now you're unknown and I am known to be innocent, meaning less information and more suspicions to be raised against you.
- The lack of useful input. You mentioned to Ios that you were thinking about the two detectives, but nothing came out of those thoughts? Your relatives have you talking like this. Why have we not been allowed to benefit from this? Why were we for example not advised to have one of the two detectives go public from the start, so that they could be protected by the hidden doctor? Why was this suggestion not even raised or dismissed at the time? Is this really the great Eliabulionic mind?
As for Zapa and Codine, I shall present the following evidence:
- As mentioned in Chapter I, there has been an ongoing stream of spins away from Eliabulon by them. Zapa has not presented how a potential Eliabulonic bluff would look, despite holding her in such high regard. Is that not dangerous neglect, bordering on criminal? What would it take to spot a guilty Eliabulon, Zapa?
- Codine's reaction against my words, at the very same moment as I predicted them. Note that she had not expressed any view on my doctor claim, so her view could not be automatically assumed.
- Zapa has loudly protested my wishing Eliabulon dead, as that would be a blow to the supposed unity and leadership on this bus. However, my thesis could just as well be tested by making Codine take a walk. She's hardly essential to life on this planet. Why did you not suggest that yourself? She's not on anyone's survival list, especially after voting for Reppik at a time when it did not matter, and going for no lynching the first day. If I'm bright enough to be an evil genius, chances are you could want me aboard, even if I've been doing something odd. I could not make things worse if I am locked inside Hophtrig's cage of being ignored.
- Overall, Zapa has been overly loud. Is he not protesting at least three degrees too much? He's been protesting that I have different opinions, that I disagree with the leadership, and run around waving his hands and shouting at me to stop waving my hands.He stole my reference to the burning house. So what's up with that, really? Will it bring you results? Ask yourself if that does or does not bring you confusion. Read his Apologia again and see if he doesn't brazenly do all the things in there that he accuse me of doing. If you disagree, fine. But this day has been the intensest of all because I put in all the work I could manage against the ones I know to be guilty, and Zapa and Eliab did their best to throw all they could back at me. I'll let you figure out what that's all about, given that they couldn't be convinced to take a stand even two days from now if they prove to be wrong.
Now, have a look at the evidence above. Tell me that's not stronger than anything else that's been put up there, and then go where the evidence, presented by an innocent source, leads you.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
Chapter V
Weavings of the Norns
What should be done right now? Where can anything be taken from here?
Of course, lynching Zapa and Eliabulon is the best way to win the game. Another is to try my claims by taking the suspicious Codine (always in the shadows, never speaking clearly) to the stake. If she's the sympathiser, take out Eliabulon because she's been backing him up before (see Chapter I), or just because it's obvious that I know who we are facing. You shall know the truth. I have hope for you.
- John, there was a legend in the past of a doctor, made in the likeness of Dafyd himself, who was exceptionally skilled at fooling death. You and Ios are both more or less cleared and the obvious hits.
- I consider the fact that Otto's and Choey's defenses have been so weak to speak in their favour given the evil genius we're facing. Likewise someone was obviously out looking for detectives when writing Reppik's defensive speeches. And Zapa spotted the "deflection" onto Leslie very, very quickly. But then he would know
- Keep looking among the evil geniuses, they're a smaller group and proven, as opposed to the silents, to hold at least one possessed. Eliabulon and Zapa remain.
- If Zapa, Codine and Eliabulon are all alive in two mornings from now, despite how effective they claim to have been, you should all send one of them out for a walk. If they return as what I claim them to be (Eliabulon & Zapa possessed, Codine sympathiser), it's a good idea to take out more of them.
- Read through Zapa's apologia again, run it against itself (accusations of flattering, hand-waving, ad hominem attacks, not arguing against the opponents's points, or using the other party's guilt as a defense). If you think it stands up well, then I bow to a true master of deception. Also, how does him removing my translator, in effect shutting me up, not ring a bell or two of whether he's after the truth?
- John, have my Bloont Oobjectimoom. If you should pass away, hand it over to Hophtrig. I broke loose a piece of one of my teeth (I won't be needing them anyway) and made an inscription: "In memoriam, Grafinn Ekatarina Eliabulon, Zapaterietxe, Lord Codine". If ever you make it out of here, it will be because they don't.
Good luck, friends. I am sorry that I could not guarantee you more success, or argue more effectively against those you need taken out. Ah well. Tonight we shall dine in Valhalla. Until then, let's rock.
Signed,
Joostein
(Yes, consider this signature the vote for myself.)
[Codefix. Let it be known, I hate these self-breaking URLs
—A]
[ 21. March 2014, 17:06: Message edited by: Ariston ]
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
Sweet mother of Abraham Lincoln.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
Ze summary:
“I convinced myself very early on zat Eliabulon vas guilty. It follows zat anyvun who qvestioned my reasoning about zat vas guilty, too. I think it is important to kill zem. Zat is vy I pretended to be ze doctor.”
I cannot claim zat zis captures all of ze above arguments, but it sets out all ze most important points. (Und zey say Pavians have no gift for brevity).
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
I am surprised.
I vill confess zat vat I expected ze big reveal to be vas something like “I am ze sympathiser. Eliabulon offended me, und I decided to change sides. She is guilty und so is [some ozer, possibly somevun Joostein accused before but possibly not].”
Or, if not zat, some ozer grandiose claim of zat sort. I thought it vould have been a lie, of course, but ve vould have zen debated vether is vas a bluff or double-bluff, und it vould have served to conceal ze remaining Possessed.
I did not expect ze repetition of ze same bad arguments zat ve had before.
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
Sweet fancy Moses, and I had to check every single one of those links.
I mean, um…
I'm going to respond to three of the arguments, the ones I haven't already answered: I cut your translator because I really and truly think, to at least the same degree I believe you really and truly think I am, that you're Possessed. Even more than I did with Lesley, more than I did with Choey (whom I still don't trust, by the way); in each of their cases, while the logic checked out, there was something instinctual, something non-rational, that almost didn't. In your case, nothing adds up otherwise; if you're not Possessed, you sure fooled everyone. So why would I let you continue to spread confusion, especially using the help of Crimson and myself?* Second, Eliabulon and I probably haven't been cross-posting for the very simple reason that, when playing this game of Riil Lyfe, we play about 6-8 "hours" apart, and, even then, she plays earlier, me later; I don't know if you noticed, but when we first got on this bus, I was wishing her a good morning right as I was rarifying myself for the night. Third, and perhaps most importantly—you haven't noticed how I've thought you sounded like Eliabulon would? That there was a ~50% probability you were a very close study of her family's tactics, but also a ~50% chance you two were in cahoots, working a strategy that wouldn't have worked if she had pursued it herself, knowing full well I would be expecting it? If anything, your innocence would lessen my suspicion of her, but your guilt might just garner her a nomination for tomorrow. Have you not noticed the condiments appearing next to that hat up front? If I'm going to have to eat it, which is looking more and more likely, I'm going to at least enjoy it.
*Økåy, I mïssed thë hëavÿ mëtäl ümläuts ünd Nørsë mÿths.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
I regarded destroying the translator as local color, and not a game-based sabotage attempt. And any apparently obstructive local color trouble can generally be self-narrated out of. For example, I have no shaving cream on my face.
[ 21. March 2014, 17:53: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Otto believes he's been flying backwards, upside down with a honey jar on his head. He feels a little hurt now.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
Well, Zapaterietxe, I suppose we'll find out for certain in about an hour, unless Dafyd happens by a little sooner.
But you said something interesting that I want answered: Why would Joostein's innocence make you less suspicious of Eliabulon? It would make mine even greater.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
But you said something interesting that I want answered: Why would Joostein's innocence make you less suspicious of Eliabulon? It would make mine even greater.
Joostein being guilty raises the possibility of him and the Grafinn collaborating; him being innocent rules it out. I suppose a better way of putting it would be less that him being innocent makes me less suspicious of her, than him being guilty makes me more. Given everything that's happened, I'm not as willing to give Gr.Ek.El. quite the same free pass I was willing to previously—though that may just be my general paranoia, more than anything in particular that she's said. If you look at the voting patterns (and make the usual assumptions, with the usual caveats applying), I think a coherent case can be made linking all three. This, of course, makes the (at this point) reasonable assumption that Joostein is Possessed. If not, if we're all wrong, if I'm wrong…ouch. We're in trouble. I mean, I have other scenarios that I ran last night, but things have changed since then, we have new information, etc. We'll have to rethink everything—which we could do, of course (we had to get to the point we're at somehow), but it can be done.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
Dimthing Tours are pleased to announce that you have evicted Joostein (JFH) from the bus. He was innocent.
Night actions by Monday morning please.
[ 21. March 2014, 19:01: Message edited by: Dafyd ]
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
WHAT????
WHAT?????
HOW???
HOW????????????????????????
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
Well, that answers that.
I somehow feel better and worse at the same time.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
This is bad news for you, Zapaterietxe. I'm sorry, but that's how the game rolls.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
WHAT????
WHAT?????
HOW???
HOW????????????????????????
ROTFL to see Zapaterietxe so surprised! Really? You're that startled? It seemed obvious to me from Joostein's valedictory speech that he was innocent. Not so much because of the contents of it, but because of the fact of it existing at that point in time.
We haven't discussed strategy for the doctor tonight. It seems there are two strategies.
The safe strategy is for you to protect yourself. That's good because it means we innocents retain the advantage of at least one person we know is innocent.
The risky strategy is to play Bluff with your choice of person to protect. If the Possessed believe you'll protect yourself, then they'll go after someone else. So you could try to guess who they'll go after and protect that person. But then if the Possessed guess you're doing this, they'll go after you (since you've left yourself undefended). So this strategy can be good in that it could protect someone who would otherwise be killed, but it has the risk that the Possessed will correctly second-guess you and kill you instead.
I wouldn't announce which strategy you're playing -- at least keep the Possessed guessing that much.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
Zis is insane.
Vy vould an innocent person make a deliberately false claim? Vy vould zey risk us losing ze last specialist who could vin us ze game?
Ve cannot afford for innocents to act like zis. Mistakes are vun thing, but setting out to behave in a vay zat only ze guilty should behave is crazy.
Ve may have two more nights left to get zis right. Zere vill likely be nine left tomorrow, und three guilty votes. Next, if ve are wrong, vill be three out of seven. If ve are wrong tvice zen ve lose. If ze doctor saves somevun, ze numbers change. If ve are incredibly unlucky und ze Possessed kill zeir own sympathiser, ze numbers change, but ve cannot count on either.
Everyvun must think. Everyvun must speak. Und - if zey are innocent - everyvun must tell ze truth. Ve can vin, but not if ve have anozer costly und avoidable digression like zis vun.
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
In case it's not clear in the previous post:
I switched who I was talking to: first paragraph about rotfl to Zapaterietxe, second and subsequent paragraphs about doctor strategy to John.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
We haven't discussed strategy for the doctor tonight. It seems there are two strategies.
You are correct. Ve should leave ze choice entirely to John (und he should say nothing about his plans at all, even as a bluff, in case it gives ze killers a clue).
Also no vun should appeal for his protection or say anything at all zat might influence his choice. Give ze killers no information at all, because John's action may vell vin zis for us if ze enemy make a mistake.
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
THIS ISN'T POSSIBLE. THIS SHOULDN'T BE POSSIBLE. THERE IS NO WAY, ABSOLUTELY NO WAY, FOR ANY OF THIS TO MAKE SENSE.
I can't do it. By the Absolute, it's impossible. Where did we go wrong? Where did I go wrong? How…we all thought he was guilty, or at least that's what we said! Who's playing me false? Who's playing us all false? What have we misinterpreted? What did I miss? HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE????
I thought there was confusion before. Now…I can't even think. I can't see straight. WHAT IS GOING ON? SOMEBODY TELL ME, WHAT IS HAPPENING?
This can't be right. There's NO POSSIBLE WAY this can be right. It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't fit in the context of what we think we know. The only way it works is if we're wrong about everything. Very, very wrong.
This is not included in the Infinite. This is…if I couldn't figure out a way to reconcile it with the fact I'm not guilty, that the evidence says I'm not, that I actually have to make a case to prove to myself that I'm not evil, I'd believe it. I was absolutely, genuinely, and truly convinced we'd just nabbed another nogoodnick. Absolutely convinced. I'd nominate the Grafinn tomorrow, we'd send her after the engine, I'd sue Dimthing Tours for every last dinar, and we'd be home free! It couldn't get any better than that, now could it!
And now this. THIS. Everything checked out. EVERYTHING checked out. Only one explanation fit the facts. He HAD to be Possessed. HAD to be. THERE IS NO OTHER EXPLANATION. HOOOWWWWWW?????
It's rare to see an angel truly rage; usually whole uninhabited planets get rearranged in the process. Having only a bus to work with, and one with sentient beings depending on its structural integrity and life support systems at that, limited the possibilities somewhat; what possibilities there were, however, were very completely exhausted. Matter and form were warped beyond recognition, then bent again into impossible shapes that defied every physical law; missing shades of blue, unknown colors, and strange new properties came into being and vanished in an instant; anything that could be subjected to Zapaterietxe's outburst—without, of course, violating any moral imperative—was. By the time he was done, the interior of the bus was a veritable and perfect portrait of fear, rage, frustration, sadness, anger—all the violent, irascible passions of a being whose soul had shattered.
I sent Joostein after the engine. He died because I stopped him. True, it might have been me next—but is that an excuse? True, we all voted for him to leave—but I am part of "all." True, we agreed on what the facts seemed to imply—but did I not present and interpret those facts? He's gone, and I pushed him.
How. Can. This. Be. True. I don't understand. It doesn't add up. What has…oh.
Zapaterietxe suddenly noticed the chaos, the terrified—but completely unharmed—other passengers among the great and terrible changes he had made to the bus's interior. While quite beautiful, if also quite frightening, it seemed unlikely that Dimthing Tours was going to be following his remodeling advice. In an instant, the bus snapped back to its previous configuration, and the angel rarified himself. Only the occasional gust of air or a rhythmic thumping, like a large being forcefully banging his head against a very sturdy wall (and the wall banging back) revealed his presence on the bus.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
For no reason other than instinct, Otto was told by the FBC to suspect Hophtrig and the Grafinn. So he did, but then came over to consider that Hophtrig was friend. Grafinn, not so sure. Otto went to the Hophtrig Hidey Hole with Ios, and thought that this was a good place to go with the FBC. Otto has become greif stricken in addition to fearful and scared.
Are the pretenders both goodies and baddies. All Otto can say is that he is innocent, and has limited understanding as to how an innocent could have voted himself off the bus. He asks Hophtrig to take a good long sip from his own bottle and then waits to see if Hophtrig will and what happens. No backwashing says the FBC. Otto will lie down and bleed for a while now.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
This next one is Barefoot Friar talking, and not John the Less:
I would give my life savings, small as it may be, to see Ariston's face right now. Not to make fun, or to laugh or anything...
But so I could tell if I could trust him or not.
JFH is probably screaming "NOOOOOOOO!" But in RL I can read people, and I want to read Ariston.
But barring a quick shipmeet this weekend, I cannot. Thus I must be suspicious of everyone onboard.
I'm going to think long and hard on my next move. I've a busy weekend ahead, so I may not post much, but I will be checking in and keeping tabs. I will be back here and there to offer any support, thoughts, or general mayhem I can.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
But barring a quick shipmeet this weekend, I cannot. Thus I must be suspicious of everyone onboard.
Given your "from" field, I'm expecting to see you five minutes ago.
(And I'm really surprised the roommates haven't complained about the thumping sound yet. That part is art imitating life)
[ 21. March 2014, 20:07: Message edited by: Ariston ]
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
Let's play a game, folks:
Who are the Other Possessed?
Give me three suspects and concrete reasons why you suspect them. If you don't have anything concrete, say so. If you do, cite specific examples.
This game can extend into nomination time, but since everyone on this bus is liable to be killed overnight (s/he who has ears, let her/him hear), sooner is better. Just for the sake of Dafyd's eyes use italics instead of bold.
[ 21. March 2014, 20:11: Message edited by: Barefoot Friar ]
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
Zapaterietxe, that red button on the back wall doesn't seem to communicate with anything. Banging your head on it probably won't fix it.
Although we all voted for him, we didn't all think he was guilty. Obviously the Possessed and the Sympathizer didn't think he was guilty (although they may have been thinking WTF?! as much as the rest of us). I was about 50-50 on innocence/guilt, meaning I really had no sure idea on that, and used other principles to make my decision. Some may have believed he was innocent, but saw no other way than his constructed scenario "kill me first..."
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
Joostein lied, Joostein went. That's all Hophtrig can say about that.
Hophtrig will take up Otto's suggestion and have a drink from the bottle in the face of this.
Hotphrig sushpects now, The tour guide, John and Ios
Will Otto have a drink now?
Maybe that bottle wasn't such a good idea, Hotphrog feels a bit sick, and it's so dark, where's the sanitary facilities? ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif)
Hophtrig's confused as anything and might have to think about this a bit more.
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
Fuck if I know. Okay, fine, I'll play, since it was kinda my game after all, and I did have some ideas once. At least one of them worked, once. And hey, this did work last time we tried it. Fine. All of these have the caveat that they come from me, and I did just blow it pretty spectacularly—so not only do I have a pretty nasty caveat against everything I say (I'll make you salt grains to take it all with), but I'm doubting everything I'm thinking right now too. You all aren't the only ones who don't trust anything I think right now.
But, returning to where we were last night, back when I could (maybe?) still think straight, Choey would be my #1 choice, for the reasons I outlined last night. I'm not sure what the idée fixe with Hophtrig is, though, or if that makes me more or less suspicious in the end, but she's still pursuing it.
Next up would be Otto, also for the reasons I outlined last night—and also because, more than anyone else, he and Choey benefited from today's chaos. This morning, Otto and Joostein were our main suspects; the whole Joostein shitstorm sure took the attention off of him in a big way. Given that today's vote was an absolute wash for anyone who might comb it for patterns, I'm going to say that anything I said yesterday about how you could form a coherent conspiracy between him, Reppik, and someone else still applies.
As for the third? Well, I have no real ideas here, only speculations. I have no idea about the Grafinn. None. I mean, there's not much logical reason to suspect her that I can see, now that there's no way she could have been collaborating with Joostein, but intuitively, I'm not so sure anymore. If we're assuming vote splitting yesterday, there are only two of us—Hophtrig and Ja'ayem—who are alive, voted for someone other than Reppik (and did so at a time it might still matter), and haven't been already mentioned. About Daisy, I know nothing. About Codine, I can tell not much more. John, we all have reasons to think proven innocent, and better ones than we do most anyone else—though following the loudest voice in the room may not be a good idea, especially given that it's sometimes mine. Ios, well, Ios just seems trustworthy to me. I've tried to explain why, but I'm not sure my explanations matter much, even to me, after today. I just do, I guess. And me? Look, I was convinced Joostein was guilty and I was innocent. I've had to check every memory I had (and the note I got from The Voice of The Absolute) to make sure I wasn't Possessed and just didn't know it. Whole lot of good it does us now—and not like it mattered after Reppik got booted—but The Voice claims I'm not merely innocent, but unreadable, probably due to being a creature without any specific matter or determinate form. I'd planned to use this as a touchstone to test false detectives—the Possessed would know I was innocent, not that I was unreadable, while a detective would know I was unreadable, and only from deduction that I was the innocent one. If one of our detective-types would be so kind as to come back from the dead and confirm this for you, and then stick around and help us, it'd be appreciated. What's that? "That's impossible?" Well shit. Guess that kinda sucks, then.
Shit. Shitshitshitshitshit. How did I mess this up so badly?
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
'Other possessed?'?? I'm almost sure we would have had 3 doctors if you weren't the real one, so I'm nearly sure you must be talking about Reppik. Had you said that yesterday, Joostein would be alive.
Well it's clear that Joostein sincerely suspected [i/]Graffin Eliabub[/i] and I'm going to feel guilty if Joostein turns out to be right. Not sure there's anything concrete...I feel uneasy about her but then I always will.
She clearly was involved in this mess (along with primarily John, then Zappa with Codeine on the fringes) and is probably the most suspicious of the 4...but it could be a true clash of innocents (we know it was started by an innocent which counts both ways). In which case who's gaining.
Otto&Choey get let off the hook
Hophtrig, Ios, me, Daisy get off lightly.
That's nearly all the people who voted against killing the one who we now know to be mafia. So seems likely that there will be at least one baddie in it.
I haven't seen Choey show where she got the impression that led to the two teams comment. That comment does seem to have been milder than I realized from how it blew up. But it would be nice to see a quote (if nothing else it might make me think).
For a third I'll go for Otto as the other obvious beneficiary (but I can't see how it could have been orchestrated so it's not a good reason)
[Codefix. -A]
[ 21. March 2014, 22:43: Message edited by: Ariston ]
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
...there's not much logical reason to suspect her that I can see, now that there's no way she could have been collaborating with Joostein...
Apart from you, who else thought they were working together? I mean, I wondered (probably aloud) at some point, but have there ever been two who were more diametrically opposed than they?
Just because Joostein is innocent doesn't mean Eliabulon is less stinky. I'm still suspicious, but I won't go into why until I do my three suspects list (which I will probably get to after the "Friday Night Before Spring Break" episode of RealLyfe [the one where Mrs. Friar, a teacher, gets all giddy and says "Let's pack to go on a week-long trip!"]). I'm just saying that we really can't rule out any of the insane possibilities until we see a bit more proof. Who gets killed tonight, for instance.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
I am going to re-read everything.
Ios is almost right about ze vote for Joostein – not everyvun knew he vas innocent, but (unless zey have communicated und vun of ze reasons I am going to re-read is to see if I can see such a clue) ze killers do not know who ze sympathiser is. Only ze sympathiser vould have been certain zat Joostein vas innocent. Ze killers did not know vether he vas their ally und following some plan to assist zem. I am not sure zat zis helps us.
No vun is an obvious suspect. So vat are my choices?
I still cannot account for Reppic vaiting until Otto vas cleared before claiming to be a specialist – if Otto vas innocent, I think Reppic vould have made his claim ven ve still had an obvious alternative to losing a valuable asset. has made an obvious mistake (und if, as some think, I had been colluding vith Reppic, zat vould have been my plan – a role claim is something zat is done vunce, und vunce only and zere is no point in doing it and not trying to get every advantage from it). But Otto himself is giving nothing avay. In zat first vote it vas impossible to get him to make any meaningful defence. He made so more a showing zat I have trouble believing he vas guilty. I think a killer vould have cared more. I suspect Otto more zan most of zose who voted for Reppic, but I am not confident zat I am right.
I think zat my analysis of ze sympathiser's likely behaviour on ze first day is sound. Ze tactical value of ze sympathiser is a vote zat ze killers can count on, und ze casting of zat vote is ze sympathiser's strongest signal to ze zillers zate is on zeir side. If ze sympathiser does not vote to save a killer, zeir is little point in zem having vun. I also think, though I am less sure, zat vun of Reppic's fellow killers is likely to have tried to dissuage us from voting for him, as I do not think he vas a sacrifice (even more so now zat Zapaterietxe has declared his role, und, unless somevun contradicts him, ve must assume him to be innocent. Unless he is anozer Joostein). Chooey und Ja'ayem are left from zat group. Hophtrig is ze third, und of zem ze vun I suspect least – I vould still say I think him innocent, but if ve somehow knew zat Chooey und Ja'ayem vere not guilty I think he vould have to be ze sympathiser.
Und I know zis is a change of strategy for me – I vanted to chase killers, not ze sympathiser. But as ve are two votes avay from defeat, ve need at all costs to deprive ze Possessed of a vote. Ve have group of three vich almost certainly includes vun guilty person, und possibly two. I vould concentrate on zat. I do not think ve can afford to take risks.
Using our two votes zere gives us ze best chance of reducing ze enemies numbers. Because of ze vay ze 50% vote rule vorks, ve are very strong in ze endgame, if ve have a known innocent (vich ze do), especially if ze enemy has only vun left at zat point. It is all numbers.
But still, I do not vant to nominate blindly vithin zat group. I vould like Zapaterietxe to review his former reasons for suspecting Choey. I vill (as I say) be reconsidering everything.
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
Apart from you, who else thought they were working together? I mean, I wondered (probably aloud) at some point, but have there ever been two who were more diametrically opposed than they?
He suspected me at the start because he thought it vas a guilty act to discuss all ze passengers ven Zapaterietxe had asked only for three. I thought zat vas such a veak motivation zat his malice must have had a deeper motivation. Ve vere both wrong (but, I think, my reason vas at least rational).
I cannot understand taking more zan necessary discussion as evidence of guilt. Ve vin by discussion. I think ze attempt to close off discussion is suspicious (it is vat made Zapaterietxe suspect Reppic).
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
Graffin, I totally overlooked that the Possessed don't know who the Sympathiser is, and would (presumably) prefer to avoid killing him (or her or it). I have to go lie down now, I'm laughing so much imagining them with a double helping of WTF?! reaction as they try to figure out if Joostein is Innocent or a Sympathiser, and, if he's a Sympathiser, how what he's doing is supposed to help the Possessed. ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
At the front of the bus, atop the mustard pot next to Zapaterietxe's hat, a fog condenses, tentatively at first, then into a small form of a chastened angel, only a few inches tall, glowing with a very faint light. Someone done screwed up big time, and don't they ever know it.
I'm not sure what to make of this idea—or even if there's anything to be made of it—but if I were Possessed, today's confusion, with two innocents hurling their very best at one another and utterly ignoring anyone who might actually be guilty, would have been the greatest thing ever. Conversely, yesterday's situation, with us coming together as one and evicting Reppik, would have been the worst, especially once they could see it coming—but perhaps also when there was still some time to divert attention away from him.
The key difference (well, besides us not being evil) between us and the Possessed is that they know who is one of them, whereas we can only suspect and believe—yes, sometimes believe absolutely, but still, believe. Joostein and I slugging it out, creating arguments for why the other was absolutely, beyond a shadow of a doubt guilty, would have been perfect for the Possessed, who would themselves be ignored; all they'd have to do is lay low, let us do what we did, and if things ever slackened, add a bit more fuel to the fire that kept us from coming after them. To be quite honest, I think the Possessed are the only ones who had a clue what was happening today. In yesterday's case, however, they knew—even better than I did, who was convinced I'd nabbed one of them—that I'd nominated one of them previously, that John had nominated him the next day, and that a case was being made. In other words, it was exactly the kind of situation they'd want to intervene in, that they had no control over, and that they didn't know what was going on.
So maybe we could start here: who wasn't freaked out during today's Show? Who wasn't pressing a case, or trying to figure out what the @#$% was going on? Who was genuinely clueless (despite, in two cases, being convinced they were the ones with a clue), and who was sitting back, munching their popcorn, and enjoying the insanity, without ever trying to make sense of it? I'm going to guess that an innocent would try to see patterns, find something coherent to make sense of all that mess, while someone who was guilty, who already knew all the answers, wouldn't need to try to find them, but could remain content to remain out of sight, out of mind, and let the hurricane rage.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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