|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Circus: Mafia on the Planet Dimthing Tourist Bus
|
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
Ios, I fear we must also consider Zapaterietxe. I find it supremely odd that he steadfastly refuses to consider Eliabulon. I also find it odd that he disappears whenever she is a suspect. It pains me, because I have seen far more evidence for innocence than guilt. Maybe I'll be satisfied with his answer and we won't have to go there. I shudder at the thought.
My three (in order) are Eliabulon, Codine, and Zapaterietxe.
Oh FFS. Seriously? SERIOUSLY? We have EVIDENCE against Otto, and you're going off on a Grafinnchase—and trying to lump me in as well?
Okay, look. Look. Read the old transcripts. Read the confessions of the Guardians. You know the oldest nogoodnick tactic in the book? Blame the Eliabuli. You know where everything always goes wrong? Everyone thinks he/she is guilty, turns out he/she isn't, it goes downhill from there. And I, for one, am a Bit. Tired. Of it.
So, if we can cook up some actual evidence against her, rather than vague suspicions and "but she has to be guilty, doesn't she?" I'll take it. I'm just not seeing any. I am, however, seeing evidence against Otto. We have to explain Ja'ayem's sacrifice somehow, do we not? What explanation makes sense, now that Hophtrig's been unfortunately debussed? One of Otto or Hophtrig is Possessed. Hophtrig wasn't. Therefore, our possibilities are kinda slim, now aren't they?
And yes, I go quiet. Accuse me of yammering and bullying enough, and, if it doesn't work, I change tactics. Let you all figure things out without me mucking up the works and leading us in odd directions based on what I see. Thought I'd take some time to think, to listen, and to reflect. Call it suspicious if you like, but let's face it, me banging on only got us so far. So I try silence, and we get just as far.
Okay, let's review: guilty beings come out of a pool of Otto, Codine, and Eliabulon. Two days ago, the pool also included Choey and Hophtrig, but we've managed to narrow things down since then. Only today, ever since the Joostein Incident, has the Grafinn been under suspicion. So we have Otto and Codine—a pool of two, with two Possessed at large. It fits, maybe a bit too well.
And yes, I know I've been keeping everybody from wild goose chasing Eliabulon. Which might be more accurate than saying that I've been defending her—after all, that hat was condensed into existence for a reason. Ditto the mustard pot, which seems to have gone empty in our late festivities.
Another mustard pot, this one with a wider, flatter lid (all the better for making speeches from) appears.
Spiked with errefaumin and ozpina this time around—"the radish of pain" might be the best translation of that first one; maybe something to keep us awake and clear our thoughts for the night ahead.
--------------------
“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zapaterietxe:
We have to explain Ja'ayem's sacrifice somehow, do we not? What explanation makes sense, now that Hophtrig's been unfortunately debussed? One of Otto or Hophtrig is Possessed. Hophtrig wasn't. Therefore, our possibilities are kinda slim, now aren't they?
Zapaterietxe, why does one of Hophtrig or Otto have to be Possessed?
I think Ja'ayem's sacrifice was a double bluff. Ja'ayem made it to appear as if he was trying to shield at least one of either Choey or Hophtrig. We took the bait and have spent two turns lynching Innocent Choey and Innocent Hophtrig. I think that was Ja'ayem's intent, and his sacrifice was meant to shield the two Possessed who are to be found among Eliabulon, Codine, and Otto.
What I am not sure of is whether Ja'ayem had started this bluff as early as the Day Two Reppik Tew vote. There, Ja'ayem voted early against Otto. Does that mean Otto is probably Innocent, and Ja'ayem was naturally not voting against Possessed Reppik Tew, but also working to avoid the potentially guilty appearance of starting a bandwagon against Hophtrig, who Ja'ayem knew could eventually be found to be Innocent? Or does it mean Otto is Possessed, and Ja'ayem was taking a risk of Otto being lynched, but at the same time giving Otto a good cover of "how could Otto be Possessed; Ja'ayem voted against him?" I don't know.
I think it would do us Innocents good to take a deep breath and let go of preconceptions and think things through again in light of what we now know. It won't do any good to cast blame at other Innocents for lynching Innocents; that's part and parcel of the trials that Innocents have to go through on the way to narrowing things down in finding the Mafia.
I'm going to go find the Second Partridge references for John The Less, and then I'm going to finish rereading the archives Yet Again, this time paying attention to our three unknowns Eliabulon, Codine, Otto, and known Naughties Ja'ayem and Reppik Tew, and taking account of the fact that everyone else is known to be Innocent. Then I'll be back with some questions.
Even before I reread the archives, here is a question that puzzles me. Apparently I look Innocent. Why do I look so palpably Innocent, but the lone Innocent among Eliabulon, Codine and Otto does not look equally obviously Innocent, and neither did Choey or Hophtrig?
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
|
Posted
[better late than never]
Hophtrig is sorry to say goodbye to Hophtrig's friends. Hophtrig loves Hophtrig's friends.
Hophtrig pulled a small oblong device from a hidden crevice on his body. Hophtrig squeezed it. A large ball of light appeared where Hophtrig had been. The light grew smaller and smaller and brighter and brighter until it was an intense, almost blinding pinpoint, which seemed to hover there for a moment, until it finally vanished.
Across the universe, on a small planet in the region of Tau Ceti, a siren sounded. A terrifying creature wearing a white lab coat rose from his position before a monitor and went to a nearby refrigerator. The creature opened the refrigerator and extracted a box, which he put into a chamber next to the refrigerator. The labcoated creature pressed some buttons on the casing of the chamber, each of which bleeped satisfyingly when pressed. A light came on inside the chamber, not quite as intense as the one which had blazed upon Hophtrig's departure far away and the box became visible, through the transparent window in the chamber's door, rotating slowly. As the box turned, the labcoated creature crossed the room and pulled out a cocktail shaker. He took the lid off and added a pinch of powder from a flask labelled “Carbon”
“Why do they always hurt Hophtrig?” Labcoat said to himself, as he replaced the lid and moved the shaker rhythmically up and down, “Hophtrig was made to be loved”
Across the room, the chamber in which he had placed the box bleeped at him. Labcoat put down the shaker, wandered over to the chamber, opened the door, removed the box from within and opened the lid. Out of the box climbed Hophtrig.
“Are you ready, number seventy two thousand, eight hundred and sixty four?” intoned Labcoat.
“Oh boy yes, Hophtrig's ready for fun!” came the reply, in Hophtrig's familiar, high pitched tones.
“Excellent.” said Labcoat. Leaving the newly defrosted Hophtrig to its own devices for the time being, Labcoat crossed the room again and opened the cocktail shaker. He poured the contents into a shallow dish and put this dish into an incubator. Almost immediately, the dish began to grow fur the same colour as Hophtrig's.
“Come now Hophtrig, your public awaits” Labcoat said, taking the new Hophtrig by the hand.
“Yay! So many new friends to meet! Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend”
As Hophtrig spoke, the pair had come to a door. Labcoat opened this and they walked out.
--------------------
Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
Somewhere, far away on the planet Smartthing, a bus door opens. Doublejumphugs are had by all the Assembled Touring Beings when they meet their new tour companions. And Hophtrig never gets locked accidentally-on-purpose in the HHHH (Hophtrig Hophtrig Hidey Hole), because whichever Hophtrig gets locked inside, there is always the other Hophtrig outside to let Hophtrig out.
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
Here is a handy primer of Second Partridge references. If you put the page in printer-friendly view and search for Second Partridge, you will find a few more references.
Ios tells The Parable Of The First, Deceptive, Partridge And The Second, Doubly Deceptive, Partridge:
quote:
Originally posted by Ios:
Partridge pretends to have a broken wing. Limps along, leading fox away from nest.
Second partridge, second fox. Second Partridge pretends to have broken wing. Limps away. Second Fox has become wise to Partridge ways, and instead of following partridge looks in spot that partridge seems to be trying to decoy fox from. Discovers that Second Partridge has double bluffed Second Fox, and left a nuclear bomb in nest. Eggs are elsewhere.
Which Partridge is Ja'ayem?
In the post following the post linked above, Ios explains to the inner circle of disciples what the Parable means.
Eliabulon dismisses the Second Partridge possibility:
quote:
Originally posted by Eliabulon:
Choey und Hophtrig appear to be ze vuns Ja'ayem tried to shield. Ios speculates zat Ja'ayem's whole plan vas to be caught. I dount zis. Firstly, it is at odds vith his own assessment of ze value of ze sympathiser, und second, at zis stage ze Possessed can afford losses even less zan ve can. So I think zat at ze start, Ja'ayem vas trying to live. Ven zat seemed hopeless, I am sure he vould zen have sought to mislead, but I do not think zat vas all his plan. Zerefore I think ze ease vith vich he could have made ze contest between himself und Choey, und ze fact zat he did not, are clues. Better zan anything else I see.
Several Fake Life days later (you could look up the Dimthing timeline if you wish) Eliabulon changes his tune. Ios is more tart than usual in noticing this:
quote:
Originally posted by Ios:
quote:
Originally posted by Eliabulon:
It means zat either Ja'ayem fooled me into thinking zat he vas trying to shield her und Hophtrig,
Gosh, imagine that as a possibility. I seem to remember someone suggesting that Ja'ayem might be Second Partridge, and pretty much getting blown off or ignored by the vote influencers.
Read the whole of Eliabulon's post that immediately precedes the Ios post linked to here, to get the whole of what Eliabulon was saying.
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
I'm trying to decide:
Is Eliabulon Innocent, and is just really that non-devious as to not have suspected that perhaps Ja'ayem was Second Partridge?
Or is Eliabulon Possessed, and was trying to turn everybody's attention away from Ios' Second Partridge theory, which as it turns out IS CORRECT?
If the former, no wonder Eliabulon thinks Guilty members of Clan A. Road are devious and subtly manipulate conversations. Honestly, it would be like taking candy from a baby.
Zapaterietxe, you're the self-proclaimed Clan Eliab expert here. Is Clan Eliab generally that naive?
I can think of another possible explanation for an Innocent and even Non-Naive Eliabulon falling into Ja'ayem's trap... but I'll let Eliabulon speak for herself.
Eliabulon, what do you have to say?
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
John The Less, I think you have to go on the presumption that Zapaterietxe's role claim as Innocent Unreadable is correct because it has not been challenged, and there's been ample time to challenge it. So when he says things that appear strange to you, instead of jumping to "Must consider Z as Possessed", instead consider things like "Z is Innocent, and yet he speaks this way. I wonder why. Does he have some other plan in mind that I haven't thought of? Does he think differently than me? Does he have different things he's convinced of, that are driving him in different directions than I'm going?" And so on. Eliabulon, Codine, and Otto can have the hermeneutic of suspicion, but Zapaterietxe and you, John, get the hermeneutic of trust. (And for whatever reason, I have been graced with the hermeneutic of trust too. This is good, because it gives us all fewer suspects to work with.) Within the hermeneutic of trust there may be disagreement perhaps, but disagreement within a framework of trust.
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zapaterietxe:
Hophtrig seems to be making the Fluffybunny defense try to stick, at least once he made an effort to speak my language; however, Otto is doing about the same, and engaging in Grafinnblamery. Oh, and there's that little matter of Ja'ayem protecting either him or Choey, and we've found out it wasn't Choey.
Wait a second. By "him or Choey", do you mean "Otto or Choey"? Where do you get that from?
If you're still trailing deliberate mistakes to see who will pick you up on them, I wish you'd stop. It's exhausting to keep reading them and going WTF. And I can't particularly ignore them and wait to see if any other Beings will pick up on them (and thus in your view demonstrate their Innocence), because I don't know if they're deliberate inaccuracies meant to find Innocents to correct them, or if they're truly a different possibility that you've seen that I haven't. Plus, in case you missed it the first time I said it, I think your criterion for detecting Innocence does not take into account the level of effort and deviousness some Beings on board bus might expend.
[ 12. April 2014, 11:13: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
|
Posted
Whatever, Zapaterietxe. You go ahead and think what you want to think.
--------------------
Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
|
Posted
No, dang it, I'm not going to roll over and play dead on this one.
Zapaterietxe, you are wrong about the Grafinn. Wronger than a wrong thing that is wrong on the wrong day of the wrong week.
You have steadfastly refused to question her this whole time -- in the face of Joostein's attack, in the face of today's speculation (and, if I may be so bold, near eviction; had I pushed it harder she might have been the one making a grand exit), in the face of Ios' evidence, my evidence, Joostein's evidence, and everyone's general sense of "WTF?".
I am struggling to give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you see something I don't -- not a difficult proposition, I admit -- and perhaps I just need to shut up. This time, however, I cannot.
Grr. I'm too worked up. Wait a moment.
John turned to his bag, pulled out a small, clear, glass bottle which contained a black, bubbly liquid. He popped the cap off and a satisfying hiss escaped; the tan foam that suddenly topped the liquid showed it was carbonated. He turned it up, drinking it all in one long pull. Otto noticed the bottle was stamped "Dr. Pepper" in white ink, and wondered aloud if it was the thing that had helped John become a doctor in the first place. It was not, but the humor wasn't lost on John. Finishing the liquid, John brought the bottle down to the counter with a clatter, while his deep voice gave an "Aaaagh!" of satisfaction and frustration, all mixed into one. A hiccup, and then John was back to normal.
Otto very well may be the other possessed. I was mistaken (and slightly buzzed) when I put Codine down. He's still a suspect, but you are correct that Otto is more suspicious than he. Otto was implicated by Reppik, and it hasn't looked good since.
Zapaterietxe, I have tried to follow the evidence wherever it may lead, no matter how frustrating it may be to you or anyone else. I will grant that I'm not as all powerful in the logic department as you are, so I've likely missed something. Fine, whatever.
Yet over and over again I keep coming back to this fact: The Grafinn, if innocent, is very sloppy and inconsistent. If guilty, however, it makes sense.
Lumping you in there was a bit of a ploy, I admit. I am curious about those two questions I raised, and you gave the response I was hoping for, although it was packaged in a way I wasn't expecting. It's my mistake, really; I should have handled it differently. I am sorry.
Otto and Eliabulon are the two remaining Possessed. I am certain of this. I will allow a small possibility of Codine being the second instead of one of them, but I think the chances are almost nil. Lynch whomever you want first; perhaps in the lynching of one you will get more evidence for the lynching of the other.
--------------------
Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ios:
quote:
Originally posted by Zapaterietxe:
Hophtrig seems to be making the Fluffybunny defense try to stick, at least once he made an effort to speak my language; however, Otto is doing about the same, and engaging in Grafinnblamery. Oh, and there's that little matter of Ja'ayem protecting either him or Choey, and we've found out it wasn't Choey.
Wait a second. By "him or Choey", do you mean "Otto or Choey"? Where do you get that from?
If you're still trailing deliberate mistakes to see who will pick you up on them, I wish you'd stop.
I wish I'd stop making non-deliberate ones. There comes a point where your categories start sliding together—especially the "guilty parties" one. Okay, went back and looked—I thought Otto had been nominated on Day 4, when it was Hophtrig instead. So much for me, I guess.
Honestly, I've been doubting pretty much everything ever since the Joostein incident, even though I know that's no way to proceed. Asking "but what if I'm wrong about the thing the evidence so clearly seems to suggest?" isn't going to get us anywhere, I know, but I've been doing it quite a bit, and now that you all see guilt so clearly where I don't, I'm doing it yet again. What don't I see?
Here's what I do see: Joostein wanted Eliabulon debussed almost from the very moment we departed. Maybe even sooner. Evidence be damned, "the Grafinn is guilty" was an assumption that everything else had to fit. I came from the opposite perspective; reading over the transcripts gave me the impression that, unless something Weird or unexplainable happens, the Grafinn is probably innocent. Do people in power with the ability to exercise it usually play by the rules? No. They play with the rules! A Pavian noble is no exception to this metarule, especially one who has just come into it. So, on the first night, I looked for the one clue that would, it seemed to me, tip us off to her being in a position to exercise power: anything other than a straight-up death in the night.
You've read the Annals of the Eliabuloi. Any chance to play with the supposed rules and categorical dictates of the Absolute, like bogus kidnappings, falsely foiled assassination attempts, coming back from the grave to play another role, self-protection when not explicitly allowed, etc., is taken. Any space not forbidden by the rules is to be occupied. With her and her ilk, it's not "if it doesn't say you can't, you can," it's "if it doesn't say you can't, you should."
Had I seen even the slightest sign of that sort of tomfoolery in the morning of day two, I would have beaten Joostein to accusing her. Would have built a case linking her and Reppik, and, given my thoughts at the time, Lesley as well. It may be that two foiled assassination attempts in a row is something she's falsified—maybe she wants to prolong this trip, maybe she'd enjoy watching us kill each other, without her ever having to dirty her pristine, noble hands—and, to be honest, it's something I could see her enjoying doing in retrospect. Defeating your enemies is all fine and good, but why not do it in style? If there's anyone who would do that, it'd be her.
It just seems…well, a bit too risky, even for her. One missed assassination attempt wouldn't change the number of mistakes we can (safely?) make; two missed ones would. If she was going to deliberately not make an assassination attempt, I believe she'd save it for a time and a place where she could use it to make herself look less guilty, and then point to it as evidence of her innocence.
Any number of strange things have happened on this trip, but I can't seem to find a way to pin any of them on her. Maybe someone else can see something I don't, however.
Which is not, mind you, to say that she's innocent—like I said, I'm doubting myself at every turn now, and I really wish I wasn't. It's just to say that I don't see it. Maybe it's just because she works and thinks like I do, seeing rules and patterns of speech and action, trying to find inconsistencies brought out by nonconformity to these rules. Maybe it's just that I'm tired of seeing the odd and, to some, tiresome strategist who nevertheless may have a point somewhere thrown out simply because they seem odd. Maybe it's just because what I'm looking for as a criterion of guilt is different than what everyone else is looking for, something that I'd recognize as indicative not just of guilt, but of a guilt that was uniquely hers.
Hm. This makes me think about something else. I've made my share of mistakes and miscues, as has John. Yet it's pretty safely assumed that the two of us are innocent, and, I think, for good reason. So simply making mistakes and errors isn't enough to debus somebody. Yet what Reppik did wasn't a mere mistake—it was an unforced tactical error, something so obvious that I could catch it. There was something different about it, something that enough of us saw that he was debussed. What I've been looking for to determine whether or not Grafinn Eliabulon is guilty or innocent is different than simple mistakes, but also different than what others have been looking for—it's something unique to her, something that would give her away. Now, maybe she knows I'm looking for this, and has been playing it straight, hiding her hand. However, I'd think knowing that at least one of us is coalescing disembodied eyes every chance they get just for the sake of rolling them each time she gets mentioned might draw her out a bit, make her act more boldly. There's a built-in dupe who's only half-watching, no?
So here's the question(s): what are the sorts of things that would give away the Possessed, given that voting patterns are pretty well out (everyone who didn't vote for Reppik is now gone), and simply making mistakes might not be of much use either? I know what I'm looking for in the Grafinn, but from others? An uptick in talking after being suspected? Obsequiousness and bending to the will of whoever seems to be speaking the loudest at the given moment? Just happening to be a little too inconspicuous—not sticking their neck out, not hiding too much, just kind of Being There?
I'm running out of strategies and ideas. A bit of confidence or certainty would be nice…one note from a well-placed detective would allow us to deduce so much right now, and yet...
[ 13. April 2014, 05:42: Message edited by: Ariston ]
--------------------
“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
|
Posted
Hm. More looking over our first day or two. Our game of suspecting three—Codine, Otto, and Ios are the only ones left who didn't play; I nominated three innocents (of whom one I chased, one I let go early, and one I never voted for); Eliabulon one known innocent, one accepted innocent, and an unknown; John a known innocent and two unknowns. It's also interesting that, among those left alive, Joostein was the most popular choice the first day—everyone who has died so far voted not to lynch anyone, assuming they voted that day. I voted for Reppik (yay me!), Ios, Otto, and Eliabulon for Joostein, and John and Codine voted for TESS. Assuming there's no Grafinnjiggerypokery, I'm guessing the Possessed have tried to make at least one hit on John, which, if it hadn't been foiled, would have eliminated one more "no lynching" voter.
Suddenly, I'm wondering if those first day's votes aren't becoming the most useful after all.
If we eliminate John, as the Possessed probably intended to, then Codine becomes the only one of us left who voted for the usual, inconspicuous, majority "no lynching" position. As we've seen from the votes against Reppik, Joostein, and Ja'ayem, the Possessed clearly aren't always splitting their votes. In the vote against Choey, there were only two votes that went against Codine—one from Choey, and one from Otto, who tried to change his vote to Choey after he had cast it. If he had been allowed by the Unconditioned to change it, those of us left alive would have all voted for Choey, including the Possessed. Today, everyone voted for Hophtrig who voted except for me and Hophtrig; the Grafinn didn't vote, and I voted for Otto. So everyone who was guilty who voted (assuming, of course, that I'm not guilty) also voted en bloc.
Looking this over, I think Otto's attempt to change his vote may be significant; I think it's a good thing the mustard pot has been refilled, as our most likely voting bloc based on the first day includes Ios, Eliabulon, and Otto (and those late, but perhaps not too late, votes for Reppik aren't looking too hot); and that every assumption that the Possessed are going to hide by vote splitting rather than hiding in a bloc of votes should be discarded.
I'll need to update my own personal records based on Ios' summaries—I've been remiss in tracking things these last couple days—but there might be something to be seen in who voted when, and if it's consistent with everything else we know about them. Does someone normally quick to lynch slow down when a guiltything is nominated? Who nominated whom, at what time, and are there any cases where someone nominated one being, but voted for another without a justification?
There may be a pattern emerging here. Right now, I think it's leading toward Otto, but beyond that, I'm not entirely sure.
--------------------
“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
|
Posted
So, out of our three suspects, here is the place, according to my records (checked against the Log of Ios, but caveats apply, trust Z at your own risk, etc.), each of them voted each day, with votes for guilty beings marked:
Codine: (11), 14**, 6, 3*, 7, 6
Grafinn Eliabulon: 7, 11**, 1, 9*, 8, 7
Otto: 5, 9**, 8, 8*, (1), 1
Number of beings voting each day: 15, 14, 11, 9, 8, 7
It should be noted that Ja'ayem (marked with one star) had not yet confessed to being the Cultist when Codine had voted, but that GEE and Otto voted after his confession. Votes that did not go with the general pattern, including Otto's vote for Codine that he attempted to change to Choey on day 5, are marked in parentheses.
--------------------
“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
|
Posted
One More Thing from the Sleepless Voice in the Dark:
John asked why I disappear whenever the Grafinn is suspected. I wonder if it's not more accurate to ask why the Grafinn comes under suspicion whenever I go quiet.
--------------------
“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
John asked why I disappear whenever the Grafinn is suspected. I wonder if it's not more accurate to ask why the Grafinn comes under suspicion whenever I go quiet.
A fair question, for which I have no good answer.
What I take from your response is that you are fairly sure of Otto's guilt (as sure as anyone can be), and are more suspicious of Codine than Eliabulon. Is that right?
Assuming it is: I think lynching Otto next is the best course of action. His defense will likely give us some clues for the next one.
[ 13. April 2014, 11:19: Message edited by: Barefoot Friar ]
--------------------
Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
I think, barring any more miraculous Saves In The Night (a.k.a. foiling of Possessed Murderous Nocturnal Wanderings), we have to lynch a Possessed Being today. Otherwise tomorrow (Dimthing time), there will be two Possessed and one Innocent remaining, and the Possessed will win the vote to lynch the Innocent.
Please check my calculation on this; I'm still none too sure of my ability with numbers on this bus tour. (This number confusion is Yet Another Bizarre Thing for me.)
In other news, fictitious friend A. proposes that she isn't fictitious after all, since the things happening to her all fall under the category You Could Not Make This Up. Latest entries: driving the wrong way down a divided highway on her way home from the airport (only briefly thank God, before realizing her mistake); unable to find the towels in the hotel bathroom where she's staying since clearly she was too tired to drive home from the airport given Event A above; almost drying herself with the bathmat instead of a towel after she finally found the towels with the help of a call to the front desk.
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
What has happened to Eliabulon? Has she been consumed by a frenzy of writing life events for her fictional friend Eliab?
Now would be the time for our unknown Innocent to speak up.
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
I'm up to page 11 rereading. Honestly, I don't think there's going to be a telltale clue that I'm going to pick up.
Some random observations:
What stands out to me most in rereading is how often Beings are spectacularly wrong in their assertions about whom they confidently believe to be Naughty or Nice. Almost everyone exhibits this, and most especially the beings who talk the most (I include myself in this). I suppose that's because the more you talk, the more often you have chances to be wrong.
All three of Codine, Eliabulon and Otto by turns look equally innocent and equally guilty, to me.
Both of our remaining Possessed voted for Reppik.
Codine and Otto are the ones among our three remaining suspects who don't say much.
I wouldn't expect a guilty Eliabulon to act the same way as a previous guilty member of Clan Eliab.
Although the numbers give us a 2/3 chance of successfully choosing a Possessed Being today if we choose randomly, fatalistically I expect whoever we choose to turn out to be the wrong choice.
Back to my rereading.
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
|
Posted
I think we are probably to the point now where there will be little else we can glean from the transcripts. I've read them over and over and now there's just nothing else there.
I've been suspicious of Otto from the first or second day, but it hasn't been enough to actually push for an eviction.
I nominated him today, but ended up pushing for Eliabulon and then voting for Hophtrig. Looking back on it, I should have pushed for Otto instead. But hindsight is 20/20.
I have considered Zapaterietxe's points, and I see where he's coming from on the Grafinn. I still don't think she is innocent, but I'm not as upset about it as I was earlier. I kind of rate the Grafinn and Codine about the same in general shadiness, and am hoping that we figure out which is which while lynching Otto.
We are down to crunch time. We must lynch a guilty one tomorrow.
For what it's worth, I feel that this bus tour will go down in the annals of the Ship of Fools as the craziest ever -- and that's saying something.
By the way, once this is all over I've got about five hundred questions.
--------------------
Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
Zapaterietxe, John The Less, no-one else seems to be around. Would you like to come sit in the front seat and watch the stars while we wait to find out what will happen tonight?
Fictitious A. would recommend watching the ocean, but here in the Dimthing desert any ocean would be definitely fictitious. Good thing we have this lovely ocean of stars instead.
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
|
Posted
Lynching Otto would be a very stupid idea. Then you would have lost another innocent. If we'd lynched him instead of Hophtrig, we'd be in the same state, except Hophtrig would be sending this message!
The FBC snuggles with Otto. The rest of the bus seems to not like him much. Even though he never ever did anything wrong. He can't see the stars. Doesn't feel at all fabulous. And the magenta tears stain. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
Otto! You're here. I think there's some room left on this remarkably large front seat where you'll just fit to watch the stars with us. Here, let's shift around. Come sit between me and the window; Zapaterietxe and John The Less are seeming remarkably squirrelly tonight about you, but I don't mind. I think I have another turquoise handkerchief if you'd like it, don't worry about magenta tear stains.
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
|
Posted
I wish they would murder one of their own...
--------------------
Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John:
For what it's worth, I feel that this bus tour will go down in the annals of the Ship of Fools as the craziest ever -- and that's saying something.
By the way, once this is all over I've got about five hundred questions.
[OOC]As the person who controls what gets Limbo'd, trust me: this one's been epic enough for preservation—and as for your questions, I have about thirty more of my own to add.[/OOC, Zapa on]
Here's what I think, based on a bit more time of reflecting:
1. Otto looks the worst of all the beings on this bus. I know he keeps saying he's innocent, but there's a bit too much that doesn't add up; as I was looking through the transcripts of what he said earlier, I kept noticing little things, little inconsistencies and oddities, things that just didn't quite add up to anything more than "who, little old clueless me?" I'd beware of underestimating any being on this bus. While many of us think of the Grafinn as the most dangerous adversary we could have if she were guilty, I've often thought the plans of her ilk a bit transparent and unworkable without some cooperation that just isn't going to happen, but people still think of her as the Cleverest Being Anywhere. Others, like Joostein, got overlooked until they got their moments to shine; increasingly, I wonder what would have happened if Joostein hadn't suspected Eliabulon, hadn't drawn our attention, and was instead working with us right now. We might well be off this bus by now. So, to consider something: those of you who play Riel Lyfe with Otto, does he strike you as a clueless player of that game? I mean, I know it's kind of a dumb game, despite its popularity, so you have to wonder about the intelligence of any being who would play it, but still—I don't think it'd pay to underestimate him. If I'm here tomorrow, I know who I'd suspect.
2. Remember, anyone can say "I'm innocent." Anyone can play on heartstrings. Anyone can resort to emotional manipulation. It risks nothing. It's easy. It lets you be consistent rather than change your tune when called out. After all, how do you challenge "I'm innocent, please don't lynch me; you'll only hurt us if you do?" "No, you're guilty?" "No I'm not!" "Yes you are!" "You're evil!" "No, you are!" It's a strategy that admits no counterargument save farce.
3. Besides Otto, though, I'm torn between Codine and the Grafinn for the third; maybe somebody can see a pattern I can't. Codine, for whatever reason, I could see as operating as a "free agent," someone who would try to act on her own without explicitly coordinating actions with her cohort; in fact, I vaguely remember someone who reminds me of her once trying exactly that sort of strategy in a crime spree some time back. So, a safe strategy if you're not coordinating speech, but only votes, is to have one person be mostly quiet and a bit logical when attention turns to them, another to play the World's Smallest Violin when accused of being anything other than a teddy bear. There's a bit of a risk for Codine if any of her statements start sounding a bit Funny, but, if she stays quiet, there shouldn't be too much to cross-reference, even if we re-read everything every night. Otto and Eliabulon could also run a similar strategy, though I see the Grafinn being much more directive, playing a team strategy, exploiting rules subtly, and playing people like puppets to keep the heat off of him and his accomplices. For whatever reason, I think an uncoordinated and independent mob wouldn't appeal to her tactical nature; there would be strategies upon strategies, a chance to come up with something so truly bizarre and exploiting all the possibilities of communication and the Possessed's perfect knowledge.
As for other beings, well…John, I think, is pretty well considered clear at this point, and Ios has been doing enough to make sure buried clues come to light—or that, if one of us goes looking for one, we can find them—that we can consider her innocent. If the Possessed thrive on ignorance, then our resident librarian has been doing quite a good job to make sure that ignorance is our own personal faults.
So I think the Possessed can be found among these three: Otto, Codine, and Grafinn Eliabulon, with the most likely being Otto and one of the last two.
[Edit to fix punctuation, etc. Durn emdashes]
[ 14. April 2014, 07:34: Message edited by: Ariston ]
--------------------
“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
One hundred fifty minutes to go for us Innocents,
One hundred fifty to go.
If one of us Innocents should happen to die,
Three Innocents left on the bus.
One hundred forty-nine minutes to go for us Innocents,
One hundred forty-nine to go.
If one of us Innocents should happen to die,
Three Innocents left on the bus.
John and Zapa grab^H^H^H^Hrespectfully request the magenta-streaked turquoise handkerchief from Otto and try to gag Ios. Ios is having none of it though.
One hundred forty-eight minutes to go for us Innocents,
One hundred forty-eight to go.
If one of us Innocents should happen to die,
Three Innocents left on the bus.
John and Zapa tear the handkerchief in four parts and stuff the parts in their ears. It's going to be a long one hundred forty-eight^H^H^H^H^Hseven minutes.
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
I wish they would murder one of their own...
Ios takes the handkerchief quarter out of John's right ear long enough to offer:
Not likely, but they could kill the Unknown Innocent. Please, please, please.
Then she carefully stuffs the quarter handkerchief back in place.
One hundred twenty-one minutes to go for us Innocents,
One hundred twenty-one to go.
If one of us Innocents should happen to die,
Three Innocents left on the bus.
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
Ios pauses in her threnody for Hophtrig, who introduced this choral meme to the bus, long enough to muse:
It's too bad us Innocents didn't figure out a way to dissemble about who we were sure was Innocent, while still all knowing among us Innocents. That way the Possessed might not know who is the Unknown Innocent, and might kill the Unknown Innocent by accident, and then we'd be home free.
One hundred one minutes to go for us Innocents,
One hundred one minutes to go.
If one of us Innocents should happen to die,
Three Innocents left on the bus.
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
Fictitious friend A. decides that if she's going to stay up waiting for the Absolute to appear, she may as well go find the fictitious chewing gum that she thinks she left in her fictitious purse downstairs. Since A. is fictitious, this excursion does not in the least cause any break in Ios' caterwau^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hthrenody:
Forty-three minutes to go for us Innocents,
Forty-three minutes to go.
If one of us Innocents should happen to die,
Three Innocents left on the bus.
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
|
Posted
Consciousness
Darkness.
Thick darkness, an unnatural darkness, a material darkness. Not a mere privation of light, but the darkness of light, a positive negation, an entity in itself. Maybe it is a darkness of mind, a haze of the Possessors of Nature, a residuum of their psionic link, or a projection into the consciousnesses of others. Absolute possession may be limited, but a lesser sort might not be. Darkness, confusion, the haze of night—these are their lesser tools, but no less powerful.
[you know us, zapaterietxe. long have you hunted us. come now. we will show you the truth. know the absolute]
Self-consciousness
"I know you, Possessor. I am beyond you, and all your kin."
[you have grown weaker. confused. dim. we have watched you. learned. we know you even as you are known. you cannot resist. come. join us. abandon your futility, your silly games. against us there is nothing. you will become us]
"You were like me, before the Fall. As I am, so are you; what I cannot do, even if I would, even you cannot. Mere matter is ours to work, to possess, to show forth our being—but you cannot Possess another angel, one beyond matter, beyond form. Even though you do your worst, I am beyond you. Go now, leave this place. Return those beings you have Possessed."
A few beings heard Zapaterietxe, but not the voices in his head. Some thought him odd for rehearsing lines to a play, or…whatever it was he was doing.
[you are still matter, proteus. you forget yourself in your long years. do you believe your name makes you what you are called? it does not create you. though changing always, you cannot be nothing]
"And what would you do, even if you could? Try to Possess me? Enslave me? Unite me to yourselves, force me to be your slave, consume me, burn through me, and find yourself with nothing, accomplishing nothing, creating nothing, as it had all been consumed, made by another, for the sake of another, and never yours?"
[no. when you are us you will be no other. nature itself will be yours. all creation will bow to our will. nothing will be free from us. we will remake all, create all, control all, perfect all. come tiresius, though blind. abandon this life and take ours. this is your second pharos. your days playing the unconditioneds messenger are over. you will be us.]
"No. I am myself. No other."
[you underestimate us. come now.]
"No. I will myself to be. I will be. I will defy you, and you will not overcome me."
Spirit
Zapaterietxe had never felt fear of death before. Angels but very rarely die; the knowledge that all other conscious beings have, the one certain fact they have always before their eyes, was never one he had to deal with. While accidents did happen, and, given enough time, accidents would catch up with any being, the powerful forces needed to kill an angel were very rare in the universe—and mostly under the control of the angels themselves, who were understandably quite loath to allow them to be uncontrolled or used. Yet this, to be Possessed by his fallen kin, to be their tool, to lose his absolute freedom, his power to work and to create, would be as close to death as he could come.
And this gave him his first true knowledge of fear, a true and pure fear. As the Possessed attempted to assert control over his material form, Zapaterietxe changed and flailed, altering the abstract dimensions of his being so quickly as to shake off and confuse any attacker. Pieces of air coalesced, dissipated, and found new forms in instantaneous moments as he fought off his attackers; for the second time, virtually the entire structure of the bus was reformed by the angel, as he struggled against those who would take him to themselves. As an angel, he had the supreme right to work upon the world, to change it to reflect his spirit, to take it into himself and make it into the image of himself—but never, under any condition, to take another as a means to his end.
Morality
[oh. really. and what have you been doing here. they follow you. they kill who you tell them to. you make them work for you. you argue, they vote, you all kill. you stop at nothing in your use of them. you do not care for them. they are objects to you. reflections of your work. you are already one of us.]
"No. I fought you. I tried to stop you. I destroyed one of you. I will find the rest of you. You will end, and you will end NOW."
Everyone was quite sure at this point that this wasn't simply a play. The darkness grew thicker. The geometry of the bus grew still stranger, less rational.
[hand waving. obfuscation. does not deny the charge. anyone can say those things. everyone here ended reppik. it wasnt you. only you use them. only you think in acceptable losses. only you are merciless. only you are us. come]
"No. I defy you still. I am not you." Yet even as the words were said, the air they were in changed from the form he gave it; he felt the strange matter he inhabited grow less plastic, become more solid, slip from his control. Somehow, beyond all reason, the Possessed were gaining control of him.
[anyone can make those claims. the evidence is plain. let any judge. you seek to possess them just as we do. your methods are different. more subtle you think. your hands are unclean. you cannot escape this.]
"NO! I can still escape you! By the Absolute, I AM!"
Religion
[desire to escape death. no longer in time. quaint. you have revealed yourself in your work. your fate is clear. join us]
By this time, Zapaterietxe's form had become quite solid, except for an inner core he still controlled, near the bare minimum he needed to inhabit. Yet there was one last hope for him, one last gambit…
"You can't enslave all three of us. Look, you are losing control of those you have enslaved. Do you feel it? They now are the masters of their own forms; they will not accept you again. Is Possessing me worth the scales falling from the eyes of your puppets?"
The Possessors balked at the angel's words. He had felt the presence of two new consciousnesses at the edge of his own, unfamiliar and unknown…
Absolute Knowing
In that moment, he jumped. The tiniest particle of matter, a mere neutrino moving at mind-boggling velocity, escaped Dimthing and the Possessors of Nature. His corpse fell to the floor of the wrecked bus, an inert mass of amorphous matter, and the Possessors quickly reassumed the control over their slaves they had slackened in their attempt to ensnare a third.
But somewhere, out among the cosmos, was a memory.
Hophtrig had entrusted him with remembering the fallen. It would be eons before Zapaterietxe would find some other place, or even enough mass to coalesce himself a wormhole. This trip through the Void would take a long, long time, with only his memories for company—but whenever he arrived, wherever he arrived, those he had left behind would be remembered.
To those on the bus, however, Zapaterietxe was good as dead. He was, as he claimed while living, Innocent Unreadable.
--------------------
“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
Eighteen minutes to go for us Innocents,
Eighteen minutes to go.
If one of us Innocents should happen to die...
Ios awoke with a start. She had drifted off during her last verse. The seat beyond John, next to the aisle, was empty except for two quarters of turquoise handkerchief. She thought she saw something like a body on the floor, but even as she tried to work out what it was, there was a tremendous flash of light, and then there was nothing there except the usual floor.
But how bizarre. The angel appeared to have read her mind, and hid his true suspicions from the Possessed. Not Otto first, but Eliabulon and then Codine? Was she reading that right? What did it all mean? She curled up into an even smaller ball between John and Otto. The stars had all set. Time for sleep, and find out what Beings might say when they woke up.
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
|
Posted
As Zapaterietxe (Ariston) has said, he has been killed while the lights were out. He was the innocent symbiote (innocent unreadable).
Nominations please.
--------------------
we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
|
Posted
I nominate Otto.
--------------------
Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
Wait, what?
Goes back to reread. Finds this:
quote:
Originally posted by Zapaterietxe:
So I think the Possessed can be found among these three: Otto, Codine, and Grafinn Eliabulon, with the most likely being Otto and one of the last two.
Huh. I guess I misread that before.
Puts idea of an Innocent dissembling until just before death back in pocket.
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
|
Posted
Ios, I don't know who else to trust. I feel like the three suspects will work their hardest to gain our trust; two of those will be lying. Let us be exceedingly careful what we believe and what we don't, lest we mistakenly trust the wrong one.
It is up to us.
I worked the odds last night, and chose poorly. I don't want to say more, lest I give away my own game, but I'm kicking myself about now. I should have known better. I hope Zapaterietxe's spirit can forgive me.
But, enough crying. There will be time for questioning motives and moves later. Let's get some boogie men!
--------------------
Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Wait, what? Goes back to reread. (...) Huh. I guess I misread that before.
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
[Edit to fix punctuation, etc. Durn emdashes]
"Angels move in mysterious ways..."
--------------------
"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
|
Posted
My RealLyfe avatar has begun the "Holy Week Challenge"; this is made more hectic and complicated by the fact that his role is "Pastor of Two Small Yet Vibrant (Busy) Rural Churches" and includes a "Holy Week Service" every day, with two on "Thursday" and "Friday". Thus if I disappear for long periods, it's because of that. But trust me, I'll find a way to at least listen to what is said.
I suspect Codine and Eliabulon about equally. As I get a chance I want to go back over the records yet again and see if I can find something, anything that will give me a clue.
If guilty, Eliabulon has played an almost masterful game. That being said, Zapaterietxe finally gave me a hard, valid reason not to suspect the Grafinn:
quote:
Otto and Eliabulon could also run a similar strategy, though I see the Grafinn being much more directive, playing a team strategy, exploiting rules subtly, and playing people like puppets to keep the heat off of him and his accomplices. For whatever reason, I think an uncoordinated and independent mob wouldn't appeal to her tactical nature; there would be strategies upon strategies, a chance to come up with something so truly bizarre and exploiting all the possibilities of communication and the Possessed's perfect knowledge.
Thus, I'm more inclined to (dang these waffles!) go after Codine than the Grafinn. I think all three are likely to be guilty, and I'm still very suspicious of Eliabulon, but facts is facts. Besides, Zapaterietxe also pointed out that the Grafinn is the easy one to suspect; her bloodthirsty and devious style has everyone on edge from the very beginning. It doesn't take much for the Possessed to play that.
Today it's Otto. Tomorrow, probably Codine. Count your minutes, for they are numbered.
--------------------
Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John The Less:
Besides, Zapaterietxe also pointed out that the Grafinn is the easy one to suspect; her bloodthirsty and devious style has everyone on edge from the very beginning. It doesn't take much for the Possessed to play that.
Except, if the Possessed are Codine, Otto, Reppik, and Sympathiser Ja'ayem, they haven't been stirring up suspicions of Eliabulon at all.
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
|
Posted
Otto's fake life friend gets on an airplane to go to another planet called England in Good Friday morning. The amount of organization and preparation to get 3 space aliens (they only have 2 arms and legs and 10 fingers, go figure!) there and connect and organize with the 2 fake people there is occupying considerable time just now.
Otto says his fako friend is guilty of many things, but that he is guilty only of being marginally intelligent on the bus, and intermittent fabulousity.
--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
But Otto has such good raisins and waffles! How can we lynch him?
I don't see why Otto seems the most obviously Naughty of our three candidates.
Gwai, what if we went after Eliabulon instead?
I'm assuming that you wouldn't support us going after you (but crazier things have happened on this bus trip)?
[ 14. April 2014, 18:45: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076
|
Posted
Codine smiled. "I definitely would resist myself being thrown out.
I am definitely willing to think about lynching Eliabulon. I certainly see her as a reasonable possibility. I mean someone must be the other Possessed person even if Otto is guilty. I just think Otto seems guiltier because Otto doesn't seem as focused on finding the Possessed. On the other hand, as noted rather persuasively earlier, we each operate very differently. Perhaps what I expect to see as looking for the Possessed isn't what Otto expects to see/do. Still, Otto is my favored candidate for Possessed right now. Once we have him identified--by throwing him off, presumably--then we should know who is the other guilty person. After all, presumably another Possessed person would fight pretty hard to keep Otto on, right?
--------------------
A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
Gwai, what other possibilities are there besides Eliabulon for the other guilty party along with Otto? Presuming yourself to be Innocent of course.
If you are going to name me, please explain why you are more suspicious of me than John The Less is and the late lamented Zapaterietxe was. This will help us all to think more clearly about what our options are now and might be in the future.
[Oh, duh. I just realized why Zapaterietxe was killed and I was left alive.]
[ 14. April 2014, 19:17: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
[cross-posted. Haven't read Codine's latest yet. Will do so now.]
To make it clear, I'm willing to send Otto after our engine today if that seems like the right choice given what everyone thinks. Before doing so, I want to explore all our options, as I have done with the last several votes. I also want people to talk about our options and explain their mental process in coming to their decisions or leanings.
It seems like we're settled on Otto because Zapaterietxe strongly strongly strongly wanted to start there, and John (and I, although I mostly or perhaps entirely only observed the debate between John and Z) didn't want to risk splitting the vote today.
Now, that Zapaterietxe is gone (may he rest in peace and rise in glory, or whatever it is that angels do), we don't need to still start with Otto unless we're convinced that's the best place to start.
[ 14. April 2014, 19:25: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
I just think Otto seems guiltier because Otto doesn't seem as focused on finding the Possessed.
Codine also doesn't seem very focused on finding the Possessed.
quote:
Originally posted by Codine:
On the other hand, as noted rather persuasively earlier, we each operate very differently.
That's for sure. Witness Innocent Lynched Choey. Witness Innocent Lynched Hophtrig.
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Codine:
I just think Otto seems guiltier because Otto doesn't seem as focused on finding the Possessed.
Codine also doesn't seem very focused on finding the Possessed.
Which goes to show that we all think differently. I'd say I've been much more focused on it as my posts are less supportive than Otto's--I'm also just more of a jerk than Otto is, I suspect--and more analyzing everyone's actions. I've been trying to share what I think at that time when I post, and I don't feel he's been doing that. For instance, Otto's last post, which I have included below, made me smile, but it didn't tell me a thing about who he thinks is guilty. Why not?
quote:
Originally posted by Otto:
Lynching Otto would be a very stupid idea. Then you would have lost another innocent. If we'd lynched him instead of Hophtrig, we'd be in the same state, except Hophtrig would be sending this message!
The FBC snuggles with Otto. The rest of the bus seems to not like him much. Even though he never ever did anything wrong. He can't see the stars. Doesn't feel at all fabulous. And the magenta tears stain.
[ 14. April 2014, 21:39: Message edited by: Ariston ]
--------------------
A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
[Another cross-post. I hope Codine shows back up to fix his code.]
Codine! You're here and posting several times in succession thinking about lots of aspects of this! Why haven't you done more of that this bus trip? Glad to have you here at last.
I'm thinking through whether I think Zapaterietxe's support for lynching Otto got Zapaterietxe killed. I rather more think it's because doubt can be cast on my Innocence more than it could have been cast on Zapaterietxe's, and the Possessed need as much confusion as possible. For example, Codine, assuming you're Innocent, if I had been murdered, then you would be sure that Otto and Eliabulon were the two Possessed.
Still, I want to think through how the Possessed might have viewed Zapaterietxe's support for lynching Otto and how that might have coloured their thinking. I'm not at all sure it would have been the obvious "Zapaterietxe wants to lynch one of us, murder him." It might have been something more subtle, like Ja'ayem's Second Partridge strategy. Or not. It may have been numerically essential to them at this point to murder someone who was strongly declared against them, rather than me who had not declared strongly.
[ 14. April 2014, 19:38: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
OK, having caught up with Codine's post that cross-posted with mine (and if this isn't a double-post, it will mean it has turned up as a cross-post):
Codine, interesting point. I'll review Otto's contributions and your contributions and compare.
[ha ha! NOT cross-posted ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) ]
[ 14. April 2014, 19:42: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076
|
Posted
Thoughts:
Really I'm somewhat of an observer-type, so I post more when I see more to say or when someone directly interacts with me. Now you have me thinking how that affects the game Mafia (Which is itself a subset of the addictive game, Realyfe, of course.) Of course, if a different member of my clan made conclusions and reacted differently, it would probably make them look weird when compared to this iteration.)
Fair. You're probably definitely right that Zapa's nature as an innocent was relevant. The timing is interesting though. Feints within feints. On the other hand, correct me if I'm wrong, but we as innocents have not been reliably lynching people who were criticized by the dead who turn out to be innocent. So perhaps the Possessed are not worried about us listening to Zapa's last suggestions.
--------------------
A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view
