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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Circus: Mafia on the Planet Dimthing Tourist Bus
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
[OOC]
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Wishing blessed Easter greetings to all assembled Beings, Ghosts, Fictitious Friends, The Absolute Dafyd, Long-Suffering Hosts, and all Lurkers. Christ is Risen!
Happy Easter to all of you, too.
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
Codine maintains his innocence against claims by Eliabulon and Ios, but isn't going to make any more big speeches because everyone's mind is probably made up.
You mean zat if John is really decided on you as a suspect tomorrow, zen you vill pin your hopes on a successful murder tonight, und leave it to Ios und I to make ze case against each ozer.
If you vere innocent, I think you vould not do zis. If you vere innocent you vould know zat Ios und I vere your enemies, und arguing vith each ozer only for a cover (und, of course, because ve enjoy it - something vich is obviously true in both our cases, und belied by Ios' pretended anger und frustration). An innocent person vould not rely on a conspirator to make ze case against anozer conspirator.
I think zat post of yours is strongly indicative of your guilt. Und I am certainly not going to leave it to your conspirator Ios to say so.
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
John, note the despicable lows to which Eliab is reduced: claiming that I don't know my own emotions and that I'm not angry.
That's disgusting.
It's damaging to the soul to spend too much time picking through lies, so I'm not bothering with what E & C wrote. It all just goes to show that I'm as fallibly stupid and deluded as any of us Innocents have been.
It's entirely up to you whatever you want to decide. I'm off to read Philippa Gregory (yay, Kindle) with fictitious A. and plan to have an entirely delightful Easter.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
[OOC]
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Wishing blessed Easter greetings to all assembled Beings, Ghosts, Fictitious Friends, The Absolute Dafyd, Long-Suffering Hosts, and all Lurkers. Christ is Risen!
Happy Easter to all of you, too.
May we all experience the wonder of the empty tomb...
![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
I'm too emotionally and mentally drained right now to say anything wise. I'm also feeling a bit hopeless at the moment, likely because of the aforementioned exhaustion. You'll have to listen to Barefoot Friar for now.
"What? Oh, hi. Quite an adventure, eh? I'm always looking to meet shipmates, but I would especially like to meet Ariston and A. Road. Well, and everyone else. Since I don't get out much, a virtual wave will have to suffice for now. Good night, good luck, and good game."
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
I'm sorry you're drained and exhausted, John and Barefoot Friar. I experienced great beauty and peace in the Easter service I went to last night. I hope you have had some of that yourself somewhere in your round of Easter services. One profound thing I heard last night is that the Resurrection means that out of death there is life. So either we will survive and Dimthing Tours will arrive with help to recover our missing engine, or we will die and see the Sapphire Falls together with all our friends.
Ios has had it very easy before tonight on our bus trip, because I've never been seriously suspected and so I've been able to post at great length [oh yes, at very great length, moan the exhausted Hosts] without worrying about whether it might lead me to be incorrectly suspected, thus wasting Innocent chances by incorrectly lynching me. And also I haven't had practice in trying to convince Beings of my Innocence.
So now, when I'm faced with a malevolent Eliabulon looking to make legal mincemeat out of everything I have ever said, I am quadruply at a disadvantage. One, I am out of practice at defending myself. Two, Eliabulon is not your usual Innocent Being trying to make sense of things, but rather a Possessed Bulldog with only me left as a possible chew toy, and she is never ever ever going to give up. Three, I am thinking that Clan A.Road's Ph.D in math and our kind and empathetic heart are no match for Clan Eliab's legal training, and I will never ever ever be able to beat Clan Eliab in a battle of wits. And four, fictitious A.'s recent experiences [detailed in her recent monograph "Emerging from agony" published by All Saints Press] means that I am really truly not in a mood to read things that I know to be lies posted with Naughty intent and bother to try to reason with them.
[ 21. April 2014, 01:40: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
Dimthing Tours are pleased to announced that Ios has been killed in the night. She was innocent. The Possessed now have a majority. Dimthing Tours would like to welcome our new mysterious entity masters.
Dimthing Tours are pleased to announced that Ios has been killed in the night. She was innocent. The Possessed now have a majority. Dimthing Tours would like to welcome our new mysterious entity masters.
Congratulations to Wet Kipper, Jay-Emm, Eliab, and Gwai.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
I have cleared up plenty of space in my inbox for excuses and apologies.
On another hand, good game, Eliab, Wet Kipper, Gwai and Jay-Emm. Lots of great writing from everyone, and a great deal of fun participating!
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
Doouble-poosted just too mäke sure foolks underständ läst poost wäs written froom Välhällä with wry smile, noot ræl änger oor frust... frust... frusträtilätioon.
Quick nootes:
- Brilliänt dooctooräl woork, Joohn!
- Zäpä, I think yoou änd me häve thingings too discoos.
- Hoophtrig änd OottoO mäy be funniest pärticipänts I've ever exp... exp... exepereienciälized myself. Cän't imägine whät they be likings äfter soome hælth- änd mirth-bringing mæd here in Välhällä foor äfter-pärty.
- Äs I PM'd äfter dæth, DÄMN IT Eliäbuloon, yoou be härd too cräck!
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
The creature that had worn Ekatarina's mind and body takes a few last moments to enjoy the memories of the carnage. It was satisfied with its choice. The Grafinn had had a reasonable mental matrix for a flesh-creature, and enough aggression and cunning for the entity to make use of a small fraction of its own unrestrained malevolence. She had, though, also had an intriguing and repugnant sense of loyalty and honour, and had resisted Possession to the end with silent mental anguish. It had been both gratifying and worrying continually to channel her innate arrogance and self-will into acts of murder and treachery against her companions. The creature relaxes its hold just a little, the better to sense its host's remorse and despair. These are always its favourite moments of its incarnations.
Tears of frustration and terror form in Ekatarina's eyes, and her aristocratic poise dissolves with the tremors wracking her body as she struggles in vain against the spirit's lighter control. Her shoulders contort painfully, but she is unable to force the scream out through a mouth that is still grinning broadly in triumph.
[ 21. April 2014, 07:42: Message edited by: Eliab ]
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
Yay can post again.
First two posts written on the day of my eviction.
quote:
First my basic gameplan was to act as much like an innocent as possible.
This seemed to go ok.
Two difficult bits were Hoptrigs plan, at first sight it was clearly insane.
But when he worried about a false detective claim, it was exactly what I was wondering.
(and desperately trying to do the odds).
One rather bizarre thing, is I managed to convince myself that he might be the detective for nominating Otto, despite the fact I knew he was wrong.
The second was that JFH was absolutely right, and I had to convince myself he was wrong.
In any case I felt rather rotten about it, fortunately things moved too fast.
At the time of writing, no-one seems to have discounted this as a possibility.
This may have been the start of my undoing as everyone else seemed to accept their version of events without question,
and it made me look odd for being uncertain.
Similarly with the who the detective investigated thing (I knew either alternative was consistent).
In any case around this time people started to re-assess the first opinion.
I don't know if this was exagerated by internet troubles and real life business.
Or if I was just tired of living a lie, again I seem to have been in too much doubt.
Finally we come to my end. Again I seem to have underestimated your certainty in your delusions.
I thought we were in a position to get the two innocents lynched but thought if you started with me you'd stop.
(in hindsight Chooch may have been too far gone, and I should have say quiet).
In anycase could give Eliab&Codeine a scalp to show their success.
So I had to look suspicious and give the impression there were two of us, which you took up.
In all my posts I had to defend myself but not too well.
It would have been nice if Choo had gone first, or if you had believed me about Ios.
The problem there I had were that the case became (distirbingly) rather good, but was being ignored.
I had to leave open the possibility of a double bluff, while at the same time defending myself.
And of course if she had been lynched it would be good enough.
2 freudian slips I'm aware:
Confusing Reppik for John. (Of course Reppik hadn't pointed anything out, but his name was probably in my subconsious.)
Detective analysis, finding Eliab possibly innocent when assuming the opposite
quote:
Now for the case against Ios.
It's not great (especially now I can read Wednesday's posts in full) but...
quote:
Aw, gee shucks, John [Hot and Hormonal] . Stubs toe in ground.
Ja'ayem, please also say something, anything, about why you chose me to nominate out of your group of four. I'm genuinely curious, about both your real reason (which of course I don't expect to hear until we finish this Bus Tour and finally get to see the Blue Sapphire Falls), and also the reason you've prepared for public consumption. You did remember that you'd need a reason for public consumption when you were nominating me, didn't you?
(Ios)
The real reason was because I wanted to be seen to protect H&C.
John and Zappa were proven innocent, the other 4
(Ios, Cod, Graff, Otto. I saw as in doubt.
You&Zappa seem to have disagreed, but as facts show you were at least half wrong)
I then tossed two coins to decide who to pick (as I didn't want to be easily read).
I knew I was 'innocent', and didn't see H&C as partners in crime.
Hence it was likely there was at most one baddie in the group (probably the sympathizer as Eliab guessed).
That meant there were at least two in the other group (Ios, Cod, Graff, Otto) (as there were)
Moreover, there was a trend against us (understandable, but why not look at the last voters, either!)
Which it was likely the mafia were involved with, so there may even be 3 (and none in our group).
In the worst case, the odds are still better 50% of getting a mafia.
In the best, I can hardly fail, and if I guessed wrong hopefully I'd see something.
If you were convincing I could always take a gamble on C or H.
Or as I put it at the time
quote:
(by me)
It looks to me like someone's got something to gain, I don't know which is innocent out of Otto, Ios, Codeine, Eliab (I'm assuming you(John) and Zappa are innocent) and so I nominate Ios and hope whichever of you four is the innocent one support me (and if I have had the bad luck to nominate the innocent, sorry).
You reasonably challenged, and wrote a lot of posts. Which I ignored partly because I didn't know how to reply.
I'd ignored Graffin's post, because I wanted to be proven wrong.
Partly because I had Lent group on Wednesday and it takes ages to reply (this double post is already at 1.5 hours) and had important visitors at work.
Despite this I rushed a post in the morning, and took my phone where I tried to respond.
"Poor Ja'ayem, he hasn't counted on the fact that Ios has been expecting a last-minute nomination by a Guilty party to take the heat off Guilty nominees."
was of course utterly inaccurate.
The replies the next day were done from phone at work, otherwise I would have had nothing to say on wednesday
Then you picked up on Graffin's mistake. His numbers were right, but it was exactly what I'd said.
of course I should have considered the possibility of two mafia, but I wanted to be seen to supress that
However you jumped on the excuse even including the line.
quote:
" or ... well, just anything instead of abandoning the numerical argument without a peep and moving on to some other argument.
straight after a post where I'd resumed the argument.
But the big killer is
quote:
And also, as I have expected, you have not uttered a peep about why you chose me to nominate.
...
Please propose a set of four Guilties that includes me, Eliabulon, and Reppik,
...
When I'd pretty much proposed Reppik + 3 from GIOC with one unknown innocent, in the accusation (and you'd picked up on that).
So why pretend otherwise, I was suspicious now guilty.
A Reppik theory is easy with C&E&? (near the end) (after all that's nearly what happened).
I'm sure something could have been worked out for the others but pointing out E&C's behaviour didn't seem clever
Actually now I'm seeing a lot more detail in the posts I had to skim over.
At first sight, they looked like evasiveness.
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
What a great game! Well played to everyone - that was about as close a result as it is possible to get.
I guess none of you are ever going to trust me again, are you? I swear that one day I'm going to play a quiet Mafia character, just so I don't have to be quite such a shameless liar when I'm next cast as a murderer.
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
I'll trust you, Eliab, unless you'll keep up the same kind of obvious, shoddy lying style. Ah well, pity only me noticed it.
Actually, before I dive into any inevitably horrendously long explanations of my actions (the last attempt took 7 posts or so), I'd love to hear what it looked like from the opposing side - Eliab, will you do me the honour?
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
So yes, (wall of text part 2)
Need to apologies to Ios for the pot/kettle remark I can see why it annoyed you.
(also I realised it's a bit of a risky thing to allude to when you can't see the person). In my defence the timetable for Wednesday goes:
Nominated Ios
Went to homegroup
First Ios post (read but ananswered)
Went to bed
Second Ios post
...
Woke up, responded
Loads more Ios posts (don't you sleep?)
...
Work, responding on phone (which is on the small size, great for being able to carry, in small bursts). Actually it worked well, as though normally not supposed to be on phone, we had auditing (think Ofsted but not as bad) so a I had times when I needed to just wait. And the distraction probably was good.
From other posts, real life does seem to have leave more dominant signs for everyone. (an earlier suspicious early vote of mine was early for similar reasons, it had to be early or late)
And I hadn't anticipated Ios being the one to be suspicious. I was hoping that in the event of fakery suspected that the innocents would turn on each other (which kind of happened but not in the right way). And expected only one miracle in the night so either Zappa/John to have died so this last suspense didn't happen (but I was lucky else I think I'd have been facing recrimations, as I probably misjudged).
Also it was interesting to see the last Codeine/Graffin posts. Before then everyone had said 'Oh they are so clever...I can't consider them', but there wasn't much to see. Once really put to the test* you could see why they had the reputation.
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
(wall of text part 3 - relevant titbits from pre game discussion thread)
By Eliab
"Doctors who can self-protect are more powerful than you might think."
"Experience shows that as a general rule, it's easy for the mafia players to spot the detective than for the detective to spot the mafia."
"For the Ypres game" ah, that was the second and last game I played here (looking at my messages I was a soldier. I'm not sure what the first was, I was the Doctor and it was in Feb 2010, and it appears there was a third set in a college (but I died in a week).
Reppik
"yet I was suspected straight away for not saying much. [Biased]
I like playing, but i get lost in the logic of how the timing and content of what someone says can immediately inform seasoned players of what's going on."
Joostein
"Do not fear, it is very simple. You see, the game will usually start with Eliab blubbering about logics and without a clue pointing to someone who should be taken off. Then everyone runs around in circles pointing, screaming and waving hands (in some sort of unclear voting pattern that may or may not really matter)"
All of these were partially true.
Finally I rather naively posted some rules of sufficient play. I think I need to amend them slightly.
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
Again, I find I should clarify that I was writing with a wry smile (I have to learn to start using smileys!) in my last post. I think I had good reasons for suspecting Eliabulon from day one, it seemed to me to be something slightly parodically Eliabian, although I'm not sure I would be able to pin it down in words. I'm pretty sure I won't be able to do it twice, though, and whereas I'm proud to have been right, Eliab got all of us because he managed to make my truths sound as lies and, God bless him, he's brilliant.
It's also possible, even probable, that the fact that I never trusted him in the first place helped me spot him - so yeah, you probably burned a few bridges there, Eliab. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
Humph. I'm nominating Eliab's character FIRST next time!
In all seriousness, good game. I'll go and change my sig line as promised as soon as I'm back to a computer.
One question: how the heck did you spot the detectives?
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
The final dreadful shock of the bus tour was that there was no private message from the Absolute. So Ios experienced herself as waking up on the bus, thinking she was still alive.
Then she saw that the Sympathiser seemed to be back, speaking at great length about his evil deeds. How strange.
She attuned her ears better to what was being said, and only now did she hear the echo of The Absolute's voice pronouncing Ios' death.
She looked around. Yes, she seemed to be floating, looking down at her own body slumped in the front seat. Her eyes were still open, staring sightlessly into the early morning light. There was a calm look on her face at last, as of one glimpsing the Sapphire Falls.
Ios floated slowly, backwards, through the front window. The glass tickled slightly as she passed through it, but otherwise was no impediment. She felt the xtonic radiation as a small orange pain, somewhat like a splinter, but she was beyond being hurt.
Somewhere and sometime as she floated, she felt The Lion next to her.
"Please Sir, what will they do to John?" Ios asked.
"It is only given to us to know our own story," replied The Lion. "Turn now child, you have done all you can do for the Innocent Dimthing Tourists."
Ios turned slowly in the orange splintery xtonic air. As she turned, the air changed. Now it felt like waffles and raisins, in the most beautiful shades of blue and green and gold. Ahead were the Sapphire Falls. And there was --
"Is it really?" she asked The Lion, hopeful yet unsure.
"Yes," said The Lion. "The Platonic Hophtrig Hidey Hole. Like the one on the bus, but even more perfect. Welcome, my child." And He breathed His warm breath of rubies and emeralds on her.
Ios floated forwards, faster. The air seemed to be getting larger and ever more beautiful as she went up and in. And now the door of the PHHH opened -- part of its perfection here by the Sapphire Falls seemed to be that it had a handle on the inside -- and out came all her friends, led by Hophtrig and Hophtrig and Otto.
Ios reached out her hands, and joined in the dance.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
I felt stupid most of the game. Honestly, it's a wonder I made it all the way to the end. Here are some random thoughts:
-- It would have been much easier if I could have PMed other innocents. Crimson would have made it. I would have lynched Eliabulon. Zapaterietxe would have made it.
-- I would rather play a game with one detective and innocent PMs than a game with two detectives and no PMs.
-- I enjoyed being the doctor. I sucked at it! But I did enjoy it. I think next time I'll be a lot more careful. I'm kind of ticked off at myself for allowing Joostein and Eliabulon to cajole me into counterclaiming. I should have done as Zapaterietxe said and kept my big mouth shut. I should have protected Crimson until the end. My defense is that I was convinced Zapaterietxe was also a detective, so I had to choose. It's a crappy excuse.
-- I would have loved to be able to ask someone, anyone, who I should protect a couple times. But I couldn't figure out how to ask it within the framework of the rules without tipping off the wrong ones.
-- I vote way too early, and I vote on too little information. Next time I will vote later, after having read over that day's posts and with an idea of who is voting for whom.
-- I nominate way too early, too. I rise early, only a few hours after Dafyd posted his Monday morning call for nominations. Since I'm up, I post. Mistake. I should sit and wait and think about it. The exception was the first morning, when I nominated Reppik Tew. That was a good nomination, because I was working on the previous day's information.
-- I am so very tempted to nominate Eliab's character the first day from now on.
-- I waffle way, way too much.
-- I am not nearly as analytical as I thought I was. Or maybe I'm just not analyzing the right things.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
My guess for the detectives spotting:
1) A close eye and good reading into who's likely to make what kind of comments at what time (e.g. Celandine's "John seems like a trustworthy fellow", Crimson's "You might want to protect me". When you know who's good and bad, it's easier to read more into these things. Still, really well spotted!
2) Celandine pointing out at an odd time, when support tide was turning in favour of Eliabulon, that she seemed suspicious. If you know you're evil and have a lot to lose, you read a lot into any comments about yourself and things like that can really stand out, even IF you think they may be unfounded - if you haven't got any better choice, those things can tip the scales.
I write this from a past experience of detective-hunting - but given the deviosity of our Possessed, anything goes. They may just have perfect instincts, gone with luck, or seen something the rest of us missed completely...
ETA: Cross-posted with A. ( ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif) ) and Joh... Barefoot Friar!
[ 21. April 2014, 10:40: Message edited by: JFH ]
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
Barefoot Friar, I think the role of Doctor must be a terrible strain, and I think you can be pleased with what you were able to do for us, foiling two murders. Thank you for carrying that role.
Who did you protect last night?
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
John/Barefootie,
PLEASE stop feeling stupid - it'd be embarrassing to the rest of us to pretend anything but that you did a thorough, bordering on great, job. You scored more saves than most previous doctors (I can't recall one with more), you kept the game alive to a 50 % coin toss at the end, better than most times. You have every reason to be proud of your game. You waffled a bit, and you got tricked in a game which can only be won by the other side if they manage to trick you, and which is also usually won by that side. Please lower your standards/expectations or I'll kill you off next game for making me feel guilty for not performing better.
As for coming out as a doctor, I think the jury's still out on that one. I'm waiting for Eliabulon's analysis and then I'll provide my own thoughts, I think. Clue: I think you're wrong in thinking you coming out as a doctor had a major adverse impact on the game. It changed it, but I'm not sure the options were (distinctly) better. I'll get back to this.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Barefoot Friar, I think the role of Doctor must be a terrible strain, and I think you can be pleased with what you were able to do for us, foiling two murders. Thank you for carrying that role.
Who did you protect last night?
You know that scene in the Princess Bride where the guy is trying to decide which flagon of wine is poisoned? I did almost that very thing most of the week. I must hand it to Eliab, he had me doubting for just long enough to wonder. "Inconceivable!" I ended up protecting myself, thinking that they would come for me because they would think I was protecting you.
This was after three coin flips that all came down tails (and protecting you was heads), so I didn't feel too bad about it.
JFH, would you believe this was my first game? I played it once at a party, but that was quite a long time ago, and I had forgotten it until we got into this one. Even then, online is much different from in person.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
Barefootie, I would believe it was, you played with a certain such style - not a naivete but possibly a creativity implying unhardenedness in tactics and mentality, but you played it well enough to be treated and counted as a seasoned and trustworthy fellow. You won people's trust and was counted as a high-profile/leading player long before you came out as a doctor, mind you.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
OK. I have no idea why you're choosing that way, but I'll go with either C or E, whichever you choose.
Because you, Eliabulon, and I all agreed he was guilty. I didn't think I could get Codine to go along with lynching Eliabulon. He was protesting innocence, but not much... I could see it going bad quickly. Besides, for half a second there I was beginning to wonder about Ios' innocence. I figured with Codine out of the way I could start lynching randomly and still win. I planned on Eliabulon being next, even though I was slightly unsure of Ios' innocence, because I could see Eliabulon being sneaky like that before Ios.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted john
JFH, would you believe this was my first game? I played it once at a party, but that was quite a long time ago, and I had forgotten it until we got into thisone. Even then, online is much different from
Would struggle to believe.
Also I think you were the first to suspect me.
It was at that point I really prepared to be cauhgt. Ios did find a few revealing posts from before.
Jay emm. Who has just walked into a moat.
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
I think this is the first postgame I've read where Eliab didn't apologize for his character.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Wet Kipper
Circus Runaway
# 1654
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
One question: how the heck did you spot the detectives?
I can't speak for the others,but I didn't.
When we were discussing who to attack the first 2 nights, it felt to me that we were just guessing, and I agreed to those who had been suggested, but maybe Eliab was even playing with our minds behind the scenes........
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Posts: 9841 | From: further up the Hill | Registered: Nov 2001
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
Barefoot Friar, PMs have never been permitted among the Innocents. And how would you know you were PMing with another Innocent, and not a malevolent Possessed Being who's feeding you a pack of lies? And if the lies were by PM, the rest of us wouldn't know about them and have any way of countering them.
I would be happy to play again with exactly this set of roles. I think they're a fiendishly challenging and bizarre set of roles, and we have barely begun to plumb the depths of the possibilities of them.
Ios is going to reincarnate on the next bus tour as a small gibbering wreck of incoherence and plead with fictitious A. to let her (Ios) abjure all analysis forever.
Thank you to Dafyd for conjuring up the setting for this insane adventure. Thank you to all bus riders including Innocent, Possessed and Sympathetic. Nine million zillion trillion thanks to the Circus Hosts for reading my many many many ... many ... many long double- triple- quadruple- etc. posts .
Now I understand why people like roller coaster rides: I'm emerging with my knees shaking, my guts having been thoroughly battered, my heart pounding, breathing in short frightened gasps -- and I can't wait to do it all again.
As the Grafinn would say (may her malevolent self choke on raw Roo Power Bars ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) ): Vow.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Barefoot Friar, PMs have never been permitted among the Innocents. And how would you know you were PMing with another Innocent, and not a malevolent Possessed Being who's feeding you a pack of lies? And if the lies were by PM, the rest of us wouldn't know about them and have any way of countering them.
We actually played a game like that - I was the sheriff, cleared La Vie and then we got lucky/La Vie did her thing and the game ended very quickly. It was a space game - I think Eliab died the first day, being unreadable. In fact, if you look at La Vie's sig, I think that's from precisely that game.
quote:
I would be happy to play again with exactly this set of roles. I think they're a fiendishly challenging and bizarre set of roles, and we have barely begun to plumb the depths of the possibilities of them.
Yeah, great rules with very interesting implications! However, some part of me thinks they were successful largely because we had brilliant crooks. The sympathiser is a huge help and very interesting, but I'm not sure it outweighs double detectives and a serial self-protecting doctor. Imagine if we had role-claims on the first day - it would be extremely difficult to stop a landslide victory, I think - barring perfect hits by the Possessed. I almost pity the crooks for having to give such a virtuoso performance, but then they were totally up to the task.
quote:
Thank you to Dafyd for conjuring up the setting for this insane adventure. Thank you to all bus riders including Innocent, Possessed and Sympathetic. Nine million zillion trillion thanks to the Circus Hosts for reading my many many many ... many ... many long double- triple- quadruple- etc. posts .
DITTO!
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Wet Kipper
Circus Runaway
# 1654
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Barefoot Friar, PMs have never been permitted among the Innocents.
I remember a game (not sure if I was playing, or reading as part of my then Circus-Hostly duties) where there was a subset of the innocents (stonemasons?) who were allowed to PM each other, and had to make sure they were all still alive at the end of the game to make sure they won, even if the mafia were eventually overcome byt he village as a whole.
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Posts: 9841 | From: further up the Hill | Registered: Nov 2001
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
I would have to double check, but I think Ariston allowed it in the pirate ship game. Well, he didn't disallow it.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Starbug
Shipmate
# 15917
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Posted
Well, thank goodness that's over! It was so frustrating, knowing that the Grafinn was Possessed and not begin able to tell anyone.
I scanned John first and found he was innocent, but until Crimson died I didn't know whether this was a 'false positive'. Then I scanned the Graffin, but stupidly decided to hang on for another day to scan Hophtrig as well before declaring. This was my first game, so I naively didn't realise that anyone was on to me - in hindsight, I should have declared the Grafinn straight away. It would have saved pages of angst, which was incredibly painful to read and I often felt like this: ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
Thanks everyone for a great game - especially our host Dafyd. I may need a lie down in a darkened room before the next one, though! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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“Oh the pointing again. They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?” ― The Day of the Doctor
Posts: 1189 | From: West of the New Forest | Registered: Sep 2010
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
I can't wait! I have a good idea for one myself, but I want to play one more before I host one.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
Has anybody other than Eliab ever survived to the end of mafia after being outed by the detective in the second round? I think he deserves some kind of prize for that.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
Eliab can have as an award all those lovely bags that Choey left us. ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
/s/ Ios and A., still smarting from being soundly beaten up down and sideways
[ 21. April 2014, 13:22: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
Question: How could Celandine make two inquiries when she was killed off on the second night? Was it assumed that she would be able to "scream" before her death post, in case she'd have done so before the mafia targeted her?
As for Eliab, he deserves all kinds of special prizes really.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076
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Posted
Codine smiles again, more broadly this time.
"My master welcomes you all into Possession."
Either way that could have worked--whoever won--that was an insane game and a lot of fun. Seriously well played, everyone.
Re Lady Celandine, who is the detective I was somewhat sure of, it was the not just the tip-offs that others have mentioned, but the sureness. I thought the odds were very high that she'd investigated Eliab, and found him guilty, so I pushed hard for murdering her.
Playing Codine was fun though remarkably tiring. The not posting much really was because I'm relatively reactive as a Mafia player more than calculating; no A.R. I seriously don't do spreadsheets or calculations, as an innocent or as mafia, that post you found so believable was completely true. Still, the constantly checking my posts for mis-statements took a lot more effort than I usually put into a game. Being an editor is something I keep for Realyfe and all. But with the high quality of play everyone else was putting out, how could Codine not want to put out his best effort.
ETA: By the way, A.R. Up until Ja'ayem revealed, we were decently sure you were our sympathizer! That's one reason I helped to mark you as innocent as much as I did So you pulled one much further over on us than you may have thought.
[ 21. April 2014, 13:28: Message edited by: Gwai ]
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A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
I think one of the fundamentals of mafia is that the one team knows what is going on and the other doesn't. To that end, I think no private emails between innocents is important. Ideally, one would disallow the mafia from discussing strategy beyond 'whom shall we kill', but I don't think they could discuss whom to kill without discussing strategy. Also, it would be unenforceable.
PMs between innocents would also make the sympathiser role into a nonsense. I don't know how the mafia/ Jay-Emm feel that played out. It was supposed to split the difference between three mafia (too few) and four mafia (too many); while also posing tactical challenges in its own way.
I have no idea how the Inspector Lestrade role would have turned out had both detectives survived more than a couple of rounds. It was supposed to reduce the effectiveness of an early role declaration by the detective. I can see it would have made later role declarations much more powerful.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
[cross-posted with Gwai and Dafyd]
Interesting. Dafyd had posted early on that night actions were resolved at 8 am Monday, and I assumed that meant he would only PM the affected parties after all actions were in, and that if the Detective/Investigator were killed, the D/I wouldn't be told the result of their same-night investigation. Apparently I was wrong.
Starbug, were you trying to give us a clue in your death-post, not knowing that you weren't supposed to?
[ 21. April 2014, 13:29: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
Question: How could Celandine make two inquiries when she was killed off on the second night? Was it assumed that she would be able to "scream" before her death post, in case she'd have done so before the mafia targeted her?
The detectives learned the results of their investigations when they made them. They weren't killed off until both the Doctor and the mafia got their posts in. Therefore, there was space for them to publicise anything they'd found out if they wished to do so.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
ETA: By the way, A.R. Up until Ja'ayem revealed, we were decently sure you were our sympathizer!
Ouch. Groan. Face-palm.
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
That's one reason I helped to mark you as innocent as much as I did So you pulled one much further over on us than you may have thought.
Totally inadvertently, alas. I may have to reread and see how that played out. I'm not sure I can though: I think my head has just exploded yet again on this tour.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Wet Kipper
Circus Runaway
# 1654
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
The detectives learned the results of their investigations when they made them. They weren't killed off until both the Doctor and the mafia got their posts in. Therefore, there was space for them to publicise anything they'd found out if they wished to do so.
which we (mafia) thought a bit unfair, if it just came down to a race for who "asked" first.
If the detective investigates a mafioso and gets a positive response before the Mafia tell the "host" that they have chosen that same person for murder, should they be allowed to live and say what they found ?
If so, then is should also follow that if the Mafia are quick to pick on someone, before the doctor chooses who to protect (or they pick the detective before they choose who to investigate), then that person should die, even if the doctor later chooses to protect them.
If you're going to let some things happen in real time, let them all happen in real time. Or publicise a definite "order of play" at the start.
The ability to talk/analyse during the night was one of the things which I didn't like. I'm used to there being nothing said until morning the next day, otherwise the night-time discussions might affect the night actions
(X-posted a bit with Gwai)
[ 21. April 2014, 13:39: Message edited by: Wet Kipper ]
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- insert randomly chosen, potentially Deep and Meaningful™ song lyrics here -
Posts: 9841 | From: further up the Hill | Registered: Nov 2001
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
Ariston, will you ever trust Eliab again?
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
If we had known that, we would have made more of an effort to decide quickly.
And the doctor should counter by deciding late, or at least PMing The Absolute late.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
IMHO, I think that's somewhat unfair against the Mafia, meaning the doc has an incentive to wait up, and given the high number of clearances that can be made by two detectives, we could've without that much trouble seen five people cleared on the second day (three cleared + doc + unreadable). That would make it very hard for the Mafia...
Either way, we ought to have asked that question during the game - I think most of us unconsciously assumed Celandine could only have had one inquiry.
Also, we have to remember that despite mistakes and using hostly powers to fiddle with pre-death posts, Zapaterietxe did spot Reppik which made the game a lot easier. If we'd been down by two detectives and with four active evil players on day three, things could've gone downhill much faster. I've no idea how it would've looked then.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Wet Kipper
Circus Runaway
# 1654
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
Zapaterietxe did spot Reppik
I'd like to know what it was that I said which gave me away, and what I could/should have said to try and counter that suspicion.
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- insert randomly chosen, potentially Deep and Meaningful™ song lyrics here -
Posts: 9841 | From: further up the Hill | Registered: Nov 2001
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