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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Circus: Mafia on the Planet Dimthing Tourist Bus
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
So here's what I propose: rather than having a risky first round of nominations and voting, I suggest we have a non-binding, non-lethal discussion of everybody's top three choices to go out the front door. Ideally, we'd each give reasons for each of these choices—to know what everybody thinks and why might be as valuable as who they think has something to hide. More choices, more information, more to work with later.
I think I vould like to see how everyvun actually votes, ven death is on ze line, rather zan just have ze discussion. But ze discussion is a good idea, und I vill join it.
My first und second suspicion is Joostein Käse und Codine , as zey have yet to speak, und ze rule is everyvun must speak. It is a good rule. Und vot is ze point of having ze rule, if ve do not keep it?
If vun of zem speaks, und ze other does not, I vill nominate ze silent vun. Zat is mostly to encourage people to speak as zat is ze only vay ve vill find ze enemy if ze detectives break ze rules und die.
Zere are others who have not spoken either but I vould not vish zem to die on ze first day.
Next und third I suspect John. Ze reason is zat he suggested nominating somevun vithout vishing to take responsibility for ze idea. It might be a mistake to nominate Hophtrig, but not vun vich breaks ze rules, so zere is no reason, if he vants to kill Hophtrig he should not just nominate him. Ze innocent cannot afford to be too careful to look innocent, as zey have killers to find. But looking innocent is ze killers main concern. I zink John looks like somevun trying to look innocent. I vould have nominated John for zat, und I vill unless vun of Joostein und Codine continue to break ze rules, or if zis discussion changes my mind.
If both my first two choices begin to obey ze rules, und you vant two more to replace zem, I vould next suspect Otto because he has spoken but only to sing zat stupid song, and said nothing to help us. Und close after him, Reppik und Daisy, who have also said nothing vich helps, but not qvite as stupid as Otto.
I vish I could say Lesley is suspicious, because I think it foolish to put me first on ze list at ze start. Zis is because an experienced und verbose passenger is no more likely to be guilty zan ze others, but is more likely to be useful if innocent und to be investigated und found out if guilty. So zat vas against ze rule to be logical. But I think zat Lesley has a grudge against me for some reason, und I do not think it proof of guilt. But I vish it vas.
I vould have liked to have put Lady Celandine on ze list, but I confess zat is mostly from personal malice. I also think zat a proper aristocrat vould know zat Grafinn is a title und not a name, und vould spell it correctly, but even if she is not who she says she is, zat does not prove she is possessed.
Cho Bacca Loriette has chocolate. She should stay. Also, she is keeping ze rules.
Crimson und Ios are both intelligent entities. But zey are breaking ze rule zat everyvun must speak. I think zey vill be useful, so I vould not vant to lose zem today. Zey are too much vorth listening to.
Zapaterietxe und Ja'ayem are both discussing ze situation vith attention und thought, und ve vould be foolish to try to kill zem. If either is guilty zey vill not be able to maintain zis level of helpfulness und ve vill see zat.
Hophtrig I think is innocent. If he vere guilty, he vould have known somevun vould vant to get rid of him for being annoying. Und he vould have changed, even a little from ze vay he acted before ze entitties came on board. But he has not. Even ven he is saying something zat is helpful. It is as if he does not care. I do not think ze intruders vould not care.
Grafinn Ekatarina Eliabulon I know to be innocent. Because she is me.
Zat is everyvun, und vat I think of zem. Zis discussion is good.
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
Come here, Reppik, have a hug. Hophtrig is your friend, so s everyone else on the bus, we're all friends here, no-one's accusing anyone of anything. Hophtrig knows some people have been taken over by something nasty, and they'll have to hop off, but even if it were, it's not your fauly. There, there, Reppik, we know you're a good friend.
Hophtrig still thinks it's a good idea to decide in advance who will hop off on the second day. Maybe we could choose the being who the most of the friends choose. Then the people who think they can read minds can test their abilities overnight. Hophtrig notices that Hophtrig and Graffin are the most popular so far. Would Graffin like a hug?
Choey and John the less have been offering food. Hophtrig likes food, so Hophtrig thinks these are nice beings and really hopes nothing nasty has invaded them.
But Hophtrig doesn't really know some of Hophtrig's friends all that well.
Crimson seems to have been hovering around the place, not saying much. Hopefully she doesn't need too much air to survive, and could have some fun on the planet Dimthing, so maybe we should ask her to visit it?
John seems to have sat down, found his feather boa constrictor and been very quiet. Hophtrig loves to talk, and when someone doesn't make any noise for a while, Hophtrig gets very suspicious and a little bit scared, he learnt this from working with children for all these years.
Lovely Lesley has been teaching me a lot about my friends, but not too much about Lovely Lesley. And she thought to herself
quote:
Oh Dear God, I am ready to throw my OWN self out of the emergency exit.
so maybe we should take up that offer?
I am sorry to my friends who I suggested we could ask to hop off, I know if something nasty has happened to you, it's not your fault. If anyone needs a hug, Hophtrig is your friend.
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
Crimson comes out of energy saving mode. With an IQ of well over 6000, it figures it can afford to spend a bit of it thinking over the problem.
Annoying though Hophtrig is, his plan sounds quite useful. OTOH, the fact that he's suggested it means that he's almost certainly innocent (unless it's a colossal bluff), so possibly the detective would be better off getting information about someone else. Also it adds up to a wasted lynch (we're doing away with an innocent when we could be after someone guilty) which gives the killers a free hit.
Essentially the detectively ones need to make a priority of staying alive (as far as possible) and gather as much information as possible, but not do anything with it until someone ends up dead, at which point they will know whether they are gathering true or spurious information. Unfortunately, chances are someone's bound to end up at some point and depending how far in we are at that stage, it may well be worth declaring so that the other one also knows the status of information received (i.e. on the third day, if both investigators are still alive and provided they haven't been investigating the same people, they may have gathered enough information between them to make the innocent unassailable).
However - and I know this goes against my usual policy - I'm not sure it's worth throwing anyone off the bus so early on. No information gathering has gone on so far and we are more likely to hit an innocent than not. I think we should maybe hold off the killing until it's a bit more useful.
Note to our detecting friends: if you get a guilty message first time round, be suspicious. Either you have been very lucky, or there is something wrong with the information you are receiving.
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
[Out of character] Sorry I'm late to the party; real life is happening at the mo. I may get a chance to actually respond this evening (US time), but it will likely be in the morning. [/Out of character]
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Choey munched on a piece of banana bread thoughtfully. It seemed that some beings didn't like dumb animals, and some people didn't like food - particularly the angelic man. Perhaps he had a galactic grudge against Roopoo Power - many smaller companies had disappeared because they could not compete but Choey herself was innocent and not part of any takeover group.
Accusations were beginning to fly around the bus. She didn't think it fair to make any decisions until everyone had spoken, and she wanted to hear from the quiet ones, especially Otto, Codine and Daisy. Anyway, the most important question of all wasn't even being asked - Did anyone here know how to drive this vehicle?
[ 02. March 2014, 20:12: Message edited by: Banner Lady ]
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
Oh, don't be worried Choey, you can be anything you want to be if you just believe in yourself. Hophtrig believes in Hophtrig, so Hophtrig can be the bus driver!
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Annoying though Hophtrig is, his plan sounds quite useful.
Ze plan is insane! Hophtrig is suggesting zat both ze detective und ze inspector test zeir abilities by investigating ze same person, who ve zen kill. So all ve learn from ze day is vich of zem is vich.
Und zat, ve vill find out soon enough anyvay. Ve do not need to vaste two investigations to discover zis.
quote:
Essentially the detectively ones need to make a priority of staying alive (as far as possible) and gather as much information as possible, but not do anything with it until someone ends up dead, at which point they will know whether they are gathering true or spurious information.
Zat is true. Zat is vy zis is a rule.
quote:
However - and I know this goes against my usual policy - I'm not sure it's worth throwing anyone off the bus so early on. No information gathering has gone on so far and we are more likely to hit an innocent than not. I think we should maybe hold off the killing until it's a bit more useful.
If I vas sure zat ze investigators vill obey rule 4 zen I vould agree. Ve gain two checks every night against vun death, und zat is a reason to have as many nights as ve can.
But ze risk is zat if ze investigators die before zey tell us vat zey know, und zey might, ve have let ze kilers act vithout acting ourselves. Und ve vill feel foolish if ve do zat.
quote:
Note to our detecting friends: if you get a guilty message first time round, be suspicious. Either you have been very lucky, or there is something wrong with the information you are receiving.
Zis is true, too.
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
John (the less) stood up to speak:
First I would like to remind everyone just how subjective this has all been so far. As I've heard each one's contribution, I've noticed something odd: It seems that no matter how a person acts, it makes someone else think they're guilty. That being talks too much, that means they're guilty. That being talks too little, so they must be guilty. That person is trying not to talk too much or too little, so they're trying too hard to seem innocent -- and therefore guilty. This one suggested we throw someone off, so they're obviously guilty. This one suggested we don't throw anyone off yet, so they're guilty. See where I'm going with this? We don't have evidence at the moment, so we're left with either sitting back a bit and watching to see what happens, or else killing someone based on what -- subjective ideas about what makes one guilty or innocent. Let me also remind you that at this point the odds of kicking off an innocent are 12 in 15. Math isn't my strong point, but I make that as being an 80% chance of picking the wrong one.
Second. If I may quote Grafinn Ekatarina Eliabulon:
quote:
Next und third I suspect John. Ze reason is zat he suggested nominating somevun vithout vishing to take responsibility for ze idea. It might be a mistake to nominate Hophtrig, but not vun vich breaks ze rules, so zere is no reason, if he vants to kill Hophtrig he should not just nominate him. Ze innocent cannot afford to be too careful to look innocent, as zey have killers to find. But looking innocent is ze killers main concern. I zink John looks like somevun trying to look innocent. I vould have nominated John for zat, und I vill unless vun of Joostein und Codine continue to break ze rules, or if zis discussion changes my mind.
Pardon me, but I did not suggest that we nominate "somevun vithout vishing to take responsibility for ze idea." In fact, I'm confused about how you came to that conclusion, since it's the opposite of what I actually said. I simply stated we had three options. We still have those three options. The bit about tossing Hophtrig out was a throwaway line meant to point out how aggravating he was being before the bus left. I then stated that I supported the third option, which was to do nothing at the moment. Like I said a moment ago, putting someone out now has a 12 in 15 chance of being wrong. I said a bit later that I still don't think we should put anyone out today. So I specifically did NOT suggest we nominate someone. This idea of talking is a good one, because it's the closest thing to evidence we have at the moment. Throwing someone off right now is, to be quite honest, dumb. We need to let the detectives do their work.
Grafinn Ekatarina Eliabulon also said,
quote:
Hophtrig I think is innocent. If he vere guilty, he vould have known somevun vould vant to get rid of him for being annoying. Und he vould have changed, even a little from ze vay he acted before ze entitties came on board. But he has not. Even ven he is saying something zat is helpful. It is as if he does not care. I do not think ze intruders vould not care.
This makes sense. I agree with this, up to a point. I think, however, that he has changed, slightly. Maybe it's that he's either possessed or is one of the detectives or something. Maybe he's just picking up on how annoyed some are with him and that he's in danger. I don't know. But I have detected that he's quieted down a bit since the bus crashed. It's subtle, but there. Take that for what you will. (Honestly, though, if the possessed are annoyed with him, they may off him, just to prove a point. Bless his heart.)
Of everyone who has spoken, Crimson and Zapaterietxe (and Ja'ayem) have made the most sense so far.
Third. My list of potential possessees:
In no particular order, they are Codine, Lesley, and Otto/John. Acknowledging this is all horribly subjective, those three are the three most mysterious, least inclined to talk, and least known. Lesley's habit of only repeating the last line of what anyone speaks doesn't give us much to go on. Codine is obviously hiding something with the layers of velvet and the bit about the master. Otto/John looks fabulous but doesn't say much at all.
And finally, to the possessed: Do your worst. Do your bleedin' worst! We will find you, and you will be brought to justice. I fart in your general direction!
That is all.
[Out of character] Ha! I already had a start on some of this, but then I caught a break and was able to finish. Sorry it's so long... can't help it.[/Out of character]
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
John's post is wise, considered, and reasonable.
Obviously he is up to something. [/i]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
The bit about tossing Hophtrig out was a throwaway line meant to point out how aggravating he was being before the bus left. I then stated that I supported the third option, which was to do nothing at the moment. Like I said a moment ago, putting someone out now has a 12 in 15 chance of being wrong. I said a bit later that I still don't think we should put anyone out today. So I specifically did NOT suggest we nominate someone.
Ze planting of ze ideas vith ze 'throwavay line' is exactly vat guilty people do. Very often. Sometimes zey do it vith great skill, und sometimes zey do it clumsily, but zey do it. Und zen zey deny zat zey meant to suggest ze thing zat zey made ze rest of us think of. Like you did.
I am not certain zat you are guilty. It is easy to misread vun comment on ze first day. Especially as I do not know you und vat you usually say. Zat is vy I did not put you first, und vould enforce ze 'everyvun must speak' rule instead. I vill not exaggerate my reason for suspicion, but you are still ze only vun I have a positive reason to suspect so far.
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I can't remember if this guy has extra hands, but again his habit of pointing fingers everywhere else really emphasises the number of fingers pointed back at him .
Need I say more?
[ 02. March 2014, 21:27: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
Now how does Hophtrig do this?
If Hophtrig grabs the big wheel and turns it?...
Nothing happens. Let's think...
The busdriver presses the ignition and the bus goes brrm, brrm. Which button is the ignition? That one does nothing. That one... ooh, pretty lights, does anyone understand what "engaging primary warp drive" means?
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
God bless him, he does show initiative.
Lesley follows Hophtrig into cockpit and peers around him to see if she can figure out the steering console.
She rolls a d10 for her Navigation proficiency and gets a 2. She basically does not know what the hell she is looking at, except to note a button that says "On."
[ 03. March 2014, 00:01: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
Thank you, Lovely Lesley, let's press that one, shall we?
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
(shakes her head wildly)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Why is it I suddenly worry I have set myself up to take the blame for whatever dumbshit thing Hoppy might decide to do?
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Wet Kipper
Circus Runaway
# 1654
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Posted
the clock was replaced by an even more human looking face, though anyone looking closely would have seen the message compitations complete _ _ _loading cultural references flash across Reppik Tew's forehead. His lips began to move, though it was no more than a crude series of open and shut,the rhythm matching that of the words which came directly to everyone's thoughts
Whilst the suggestion that we list 3 fellow travellers who arouse us the most...
Reppik's face flickered a pale red colour, then reset
Excuse me. Whilst the suggestion that we list 3 fellow travellers who arouse our suspisions the most is admirable - in terms of starting discussions and providing an insight into our thoughts - it fails my logic computations for a number of reasons:
1. The resultant tally of suspicions is more likely to show a mean level of suspicions across a higher number of candidates than if we each suggested one person
2. It further clouds later discussion and calculations when trying to track each person's ideas - this is not a concern for *my* computational abilities, but is unfair to those of lower processing power.
3. It permits the malevolent to include one of their own number within their choice of good/bad/ugly as a bluff or smokescreen, though this carries risk of said bluff being inadvertently taken up by others and turned into a nomination.
4. It lowers the requirement to stand by one's choices, were we to limit our initial suspicions to a single traveller.
5. It further increases the time spent before action is taken with actual nominations.
I agree there is merit in the opinions already provided, and not wishing to go against the course that many have so far taken, however, to abide by what I have just stated, I shall limit my discussions.
I am most suspicious of that which I cannot compute, usually due to insufficient information.
What currently_ _ _ _ confuses me most is the seemingly boundless energy of the being Hophtrig, and any non-corporeal entities.
I submit my thoughts for your use. If you will pardon me, I require a time of recuperation and energy restoration.
with that, Reppik's face cleared, except for what appeared to be 2 closed eyes. and a low thrum, a bit like low frequency tinnitus,and a lot like snoring, lodged itself gently in the lower reaches of everyone's minds
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- insert randomly chosen, potentially Deep and Meaningful™ song lyrics here -
Posts: 9841 | From: further up the Hill | Registered: Nov 2001
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
Don't be afraid, Lovely Lesley, we're all wonderful friends on this bus, and we can do anything, if we believe in ourselves.
Hophtrig has seen lots of busdrivers driving a bus, it doesn't look all that hard. Hophtrig thinks he could try.
Hophtrig thinks the button labelled On might be a good way to start the bus! With Lovely Lesley beside Hophtrig, what could go wrong?
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Thank God I don't have to copy his inflection.
What could go wrong??? What could go WRONG???
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
We'll never know until we try, will we Lovely Lesley. Here, let Hophtrig take your hand and we'll push it together, shall we?
You don't have to pull away so hard, Lovely Lesley, we can do it...
See. That wasn't so hard, was it? That's a funny noise. Does Hophtrig smell smoke?
If we smell smoke, what's the first thing we must do, boys and girls? That's right, tell a grownup. Lovely Lesley's a grownup, Hophtrig smells smoke, Lovely Lesley.
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
Some more thoughts:
- It might behoove our psychic-types to keep a low profile for a bit; after all, there's two of them and only one person who can protect them; while playing the odds would suggest that after two nights (or three if they find one of the two of us immune to psionic investigation) they should be able to suss out with reasonable confidence whether or not they're getting positive or inverted results, if they both try to coordinate (given that they'd have to do it overtly), at least one of them's getting bumped off. Which makes me wonder about those who have suggested that the character-reading types share their lists with one another; as this would have to be done in front of all of us, it would expose one (or both) of them, which would mean that the other one would be vulnerable to the Possessed. If either of them makes it through the second or third night, they're both equally valuable to those of us trying to make it out alive. Therefore, it's to the advantage of the Possessed to draw out and take out at least one of them as soon as possible.
People who have advocated information sharing among detectives: Hophtrig
- Unorthodox and counterintuitive strategies: you know how you create an argument that can't be countered by any amount of logic or reason? Don't use logic or reason, use confusion and idiotic stupidity. You can't argue with stupid. Sure, unorthodox strategies might just give us the edge against an enemy that, being drawn from among us, is just as smart and capable as us. Keeping wit and the advantage of surprise on our side is our only hope. Of course, it's also theirs. So who's coming up with weird ideas that might be our salvation—or might be used to work an angle?
People cooking up weird ideas: Hophtrig (self-nominating? Voting someone off two days later, rather than today?), me
- Shitstirring: according to basic, oversimplified, and pop psychologized game theory, we have a better chance of making it through this alive if we cooperate than if we compete. How do you keep people from cooperating? Stir up factions, create dissent, cast doubt on those who seem to be cooking up dangerous ideas. If you can keep people suspicious of one another, they'll never suspect you.
Potential shitstirrers: Reppik Tew, Grafinn Eliabulon, Lesley
- Bullshitting: or, as my sister would describe it, having an extremely low signal-to-noise ratio. Who is saying lots, but contributing little? Who is voting only for people someone else has nominated and consensus seems to be turning against? Who is going to have the easiest time of concealing logical errors and lapses in judging probability behind pages of text and strange diction?
Full of static: Hophtrig (talkative, annoying prat, if a bit better now…whether or not that's because of Possession); Grafinn Eliabulon (but what else do you expect from a Pavian noble—it's completely in character); Lesley (strange speech tics; little strategizing despite lots of words; a set of three suspects who had each been nominated by two of the previous three voters—so no originality—but perhaps trying to establish a trend early
Well. I've certainly put an assumed foot (or feathered wing, for those of you who are more poetically inclined) into the fire here. It's hard to think of how I could have drawn a bigger bulls-eye on my behind unless I rearranged a few photons…what in the Unspeakable Name of the Transcendent Absolute is that smell? Excuse me for a moment, I think I have a rather pressing engineering problem to attend to up front.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
Lots of messages, all with big words. Hophtrig is confused.
Critical core overheating imminent,
Warp drive full throttle
Disengage Parking brake before engaging thrusters
Fatal systems failure pending.
Don't Panic.
Hophtrig is a little frightened by all this.
Hophtrig is also a little worried Hophtrig's other ideas are being misunderstood. Hophtrig has proposed that we all decide who goes overboard tomorrow, not two days hence, then the mind readers can test their powers on that person tonight, without revealing themselves. Then tomorrow, when they know properly who they are, they can think about telling all their friends (or not, maybe). Hophtrig thought, with the way some of his friends have been talking, that they might be inclined to ask Hophtrig to leave the bus. Hophtrig didn't really mean to volunteer, just to say that he understood if this was their decision.
That smoke smell's getting stronger. Hophtrig's getting more scared, can he have a hug, Lovely Lesley?
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alban:
We'll never know until we try, will we Lovely Lesley. Here, let Hophtrig take your hand and we'll push it together, shall we?
You don't have to pull away so hard, Lovely Lesley, we can do it...
See. That wasn't so hard, was it? That's a funny noise. Does Hophtrig smell smoke?
If we smell smoke, what's the first thing we must do, boys and girls? That's right, tell a grownup. Lovely Lesley's a grownup, Hophtrig smells smoke, Lovely Lesley.
The smoke condensed into the form of a two-thumbed hand, then proceeded to smack both Hophtrig and Lesley soundly upside the head. If it was possible for a hand to glare, then this hand certainly was.
"What did you two THINK would happen? That things would just magically start working again, and we'd be on our way? Well, yes, of course you did, Hophtrig. But it didn't, and we aren't. So what did we learn today, girls and boys? That's right, don't go pressing strange buttons when we don't know what they do!"
"There. I've put out the fire you started when you activated the bus's security system. Lucky for you, it was shorted out in the accident, or else it would have been you that was smoking. Wouldn't you know it, but a big, valuable, and important piece of equipment like this has some safeguards on it to make sure nobody steals it! Unless your basic biometric data match the records stored in this ship exactly—and from what I can tell, there are only a few people, none of them you, who match those descriptions—you're not going to get very far with this craft. So you might want to leave it alone, especially now that I've fixed it."
"No I'm not just going to create a copy of the pilot or bypass the security system so that we can steal this bus, that would be unethical! What, you think that's trivial? You think that just because I'm a near-immortal being with unsurpassed control over the material universe I can transgress the laws set forth by the Absolute? You think those rules have exceptions because it's convenient for you?
"No, there aren't any rules against smacking sense into you with a bit of carefully directed wind. Nor talking hands. Nor cones of silence. Nor…look, I didn't make those manacles, nor did they actually do any lasting harm! So not my fault!"
"No, I…fine. Fine. Whatever. I'll admit, I did set you up perfectly for that 'talk to the hand' joke."
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Lesley rubs her cheeks and wishes the phrase "I told you so!" had been worked into that speech somewhere...
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Manacles?
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Choey sighed and put the fire extinguisher and air filter back into her pouch. It looked like they wouldn't need them after all.
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
That's not very nice, Hophtrig and Lovely Lucy were just trying to get us out of here. Hophtrig thought we were stuck, and that was worrying Hophtrig's friend Choey, so Hophtrig thought he could help.
But Zapaterietxe doesn't want Hophtrig to help. What are we going to do now? Maybe there's some way to call for help. Lovely Lesley, do you see anything that looks like a communicator?
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
"You might look in the back of the bus, Hophtrig. I think I saw a big red button with a sign that said "Press To Talk" above it aaaaall the way in the very back, no, no, the very back"
Zapaterietxe quickly zipped through the wall and created just such a button and sign on the back wall—with the button wired to absolutely nothing at all. If you can't beat 'em, if you can't even understand 'em half the time, you can at least give 'em something harmless to play with.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
Choey, no-one's talking back on this communicator. Hophtrig's going to keep on trying for a while, but if that doesn't work, he might need a Zardoc bit screwdriver from your pouch to open it up and try fixing it.
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
Hello, hello?
No, nothing. Choey, can Hophtrig have a Zardoc bit screwdriver, please? So, what does everyone think? If Hophtrig takes off this panel, can we fix it?
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Choey reached into her pouch and pulled out a small case. She flicked a catch on it with her paw and it concertina'd out to show about 5,000 different tools. She hoped Hophtrig might find what he wanted in there.
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
Thank you so much Choey, can Hophrtig borrow the whole kit? Hophtrig thinks he might need to take the whole back wall off to get at the inside of the communicator. Does anyone want to help Hophtrig?
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
Oh bother, dropped that screw.
Let's go screw hunting people!
Let's go hunt a screw
Your friend Hophtrig and you
If we've lost it, what'll we do
I think it fell down that vent
Oh well, we'll be more careful with the next one.
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
All 87 screws holding the back wall panel removed, only 12 lost. Now Hophtrig wants to take off the panel. What tools could we use for that? Should it be a Crowbar, a hammer or a spirit level?
That's a good idea boys, girls and other. We'll use the crowbar...
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
Joostein Käse loook oop froom poolish Bloont Oobjectimoom between buttoocks. Foolk tälk oof whät too doo. Äs if troost Bloont Oobjectimoom wielder noot enoof. Oother foolk demänd listen too, Joostein noot cäre mooch foor sooch politrookery. "Never säy änything noot loogicäl!" "Älwäys listen too me!" Äs if loogics be Kärl Joohan oon 17th Mäy, oone wäy oonly. Äs if rooles be noot oopen too mäny int... in... inpreternäminätioons. Äs if foolk doo noot woork däy änd night too doo soo in woord ploondering in coourt hoouse. Ræsoon be ä loovesick säiloor gooings froom poort too poort. But too æch oown hoompfriend. Joostein noot intoo slender sländer oof "this be moost loogicäl - yoou noot ägree soo intoo lävä foor yoou!" Tälkings be good boot rooles be dumb.
Due too läws oof Dimthing näture, oon boos be mäny evil foolk. Älsoo be three goood foolk. Älmoost even, soo blootfest sooon kill goood foolk oor revæl whooings is. If mäny, mäny, mäny, three foolks noow, äfter twoo nights mäny, mäny, mäny, one foolks left. When mäny, mäny foolk left ploonder cän begin if noo evil oones dæd. Hoowever, oonless evil foolk be very lucky, äfter three nights shoould knoowings læest mäny too mäny-oone foolkses näture. Given coountings, best too wäit, boot tälking. Oonly Swedish idioots kill noow. Goood think suggest list oof three persoons.
Joostein noot believe rooles, but believe joodging blookes froom oown strookes. Päviän's strookes be ooff expected pättern. Gräfinn Ekätärinä Eliäbooloon bræks oown rooles. Suggest "ve vil feel fooolish" unless doo äs she säys änd äct against ræson of säving goodies äs much äs poossible when thät rælly give ädv... ädvän... ädvänätägiumänce too oos. BIG sooch. Äct fooolish. Älso mooch bloober - tälking things noot helping, äsking in... ina... inoonanoonitootisoosisies äboout rooles änd pootting oop lists oof oobv... oob... oobviälensioous things like members. Noot poot up three candidates but mäny-two. Äct very sus... susp... like bäddie Päviän blooke woould, froom ooldest boook in the Trek. I noo... noom... noomininätitiäte Gräfinn Ekätärinä Eliäbooloon foor ooff-throowing änd ploondering and m... moot... moommietootioonäte ägäinst foormäl use oof loong soouthern woords in ooff... ooffi... oofooficoociälis proocess oon booärd boos. Gräfinn bræk mäny rooles, enoough too bræk roole oof keeping foolk älive, in hoomble vioo. Äll shoould coonsider.
Äpärt froom this, Joostein moost ädd twoo moore foolks too list.
2. Crimson - if soo gifted, why soo quiet? Änd äs Gräfinn pooint oout, Hoofdrig's plän sädly noot much good. Hoowever, Hoofdrig, Joostein sure Bloong Oobjectimoom help fix pänel. Pänel ræd "GNDN"? Whät be thät?
3. Codine - unheard oof. Äs is Oottoo.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
Er, have you forgotten something? You have a being on this bus with an IQ of 6000+. If you want to start the bus, you just turn this dial, program your destination and engage this lever. Simple, no?
I am unsure that quietness at this stage is proof of anything. If someone doesn’t want to appear suspicious, they need to behave the same as they always do. A smart entity will be able to do this even if they are guilty. They may just be asleep or something.
I’m still not sure whether anyone is looking lynch-worthy. I think there are better ways of getting information at this stage.
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
2. Crimson - if soo gifted, why soo quiet?
Crimson recharges its energy supplies over the weekend. It always goes a bit quiet then. Also if a being as intelligent as Crimson was a killer, it wouldn't be playing the "go quiet" strategy. It would talking exactly as much as it usually does, no more, no less. But Crimson is no killer.
[Edit: With an IQ of 6000, you would have thought Crimson would be able to spell. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) ]
[ 03. March 2014, 11:13: Message edited by: la vie en rouge ]
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
Dimthing Tours are pleased to say that your predicament has been noted. We are happy to announce that your bus's engine has been located fifteen metres away from your bus on a bearing of .43 rad. Access to the engine is impossible without exposure to x-tonic radiation, which wil be instantly lethal to all known sentient entities. We are doing everything possible to resolve your predicament consistent with our acceptable profit margin. Dimthing Tours disclaim all responsibility for the actions of malevolent possessing entities of unknown origin. Have a Nice Day.
Dimthing Tours would like to ask anybody making nominations for today to make them clear and unambiguous. You are free to put up lists of names for discussions among yourselves, but as far as the voting is concerned, one nomination per entity per day.
At the moment I believe I have No Lynching by John the Less (Barefoot Friar).
Did Joostein (JFH) actually nominate Grafinn Ekaterina (Eliab) or was he just listing her for discussion?
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Starbug
Shipmate
# 15917
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Posted
After much consideration, one also wishes to vote for No Lynching.
There appear to be a number of screws lying around the floor. One hopes someone is going to pick them up. *looks meaningfully at Hophtrig*
[ 03. March 2014, 12:18: Message edited by: Starbug ]
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“Oh the pointing again. They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?” ― The Day of the Doctor
Posts: 1189 | From: West of the New Forest | Registered: Sep 2010
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Did Joostein (JFH) actually nominate Grafinn Ekaterina (Eliab) or was he just listing her for discussion?
That's how I'm reading it. Joostein? Want to clarify?
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
quote:
Ooriginälly poosted by Däfyd:
Dimthing Toours äre pläæsed too säy thät yoour predicäment häs been nooted. We äre häppy too ännoounce thät yoour bus's engine häs been loocäted fifteen metres äwäy froom yoour bus oon ä bæring oof .43 räd. äccess too the engine is impoossible withoout expoosure too x-toonic rädiätioon, which wil be instäntly lethäl too äll knoown sentient entities. We äre dooing everything poossible too resoolve yoour predicäment coonsistent with oour äcceptäble proofit märgin. Dimthing Toours discläim äll respoonsibility foor the äctioons oof mälevoolent poossessing entities oof unknoown oorigin. Häve ä Nice Däy.
Hoofdrig, Joostein thinks yoou'd mäke græt engine retriever änd mäke mäny, mäny, mäny, twoo friends if yoou goo get engine. Heroo oof Dimthing, sooundings mooch fäncy.
quote:
Ooriginälly poosted by Däfyd:
Dimthing Toours woould like too äsk änyboody mäking noominätioons foor toodäy too mäke them clær änd unämbiguoous. Yoou äre free too put up lists oof nämes foor discussioons ämoong yoourselves, but äs fär äs the vooting is cooncerned, oone noominätioon per entity per däy.
ät the mooment I believe I häve Noo Lynching by Joohn the Less (Bärefooot Friär).
Did Joostein (JFH) äctuälly noominäte Gräfinn Ekäterinä (Eliäb) oor wäs he just listing her foor discussioon?
Joostein noom... noominoon... YES.
(Äs seen by boolding.)
Joostein think Gräfinn Ekätärinä Eliäbuloon evil, but noot sure if will voote for lynching yet. Still, noom... put oon list of off-boosable foolk. But Joostein älsoo hoope see moore foolk oon sooch list, too keep chooices.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076
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Posted
Codine enters and bows. My apologies, for being absent. It was important to my master to keep up with his correspondence. A few rather important people had written him, and I helped him answer these. He has no interest, of course, in figuring out what is wrong with the ship. He says that is a job for menials. So I have returned to figure this out with you all.
I don't see much good in lynching anyone personally. After all, it's no good to judge anyone on anything that they said before they were possessed, and I just don't see that we have enough information to go on to waste killing a person with little verbal evidence, and none from any of our detective types.
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A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Otto von Biggleswarpski enters, refrains from bowing, but curtsies. Then flourishes with the feather boa constrictor; the says that the FBC has suggested lynching would be nice and asks if lunch might be available at about the same time. So that's an agreement on that.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
Ios reviewed her memory bank of similar situations and discovered that she seemed to have been preprogrammed with a bucket of hopeless cynicism.
"I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference what we do; we'll never solve this thing by logic. We're probably all doomed, but I would hate to deprive someone of the chance to engage in a full day of banter and a full night of sleeplessly wondering if a spectral tentacle is about to tap oneself on the neck. And then everyone will get to enjoy at least one more day of baseless but increasingly panicked recriminations before we toss someone out the airlock."
She settled back in her seat and wondered how many more panels Hatrack could disassemble before blowing the whole bus to smithereens by accident.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
Joostein, Hophtrig thinks you sound like a very helpful friend. There doesn't seem to be much of anything behind that panel, maybe your Bloont Objectimoom would be a better tool for finding out? Can you please help us find the communicator, and fix it.
And what was Joostein saying about Hophtrig, hero of Dimthing? Tell Hophtrig how Hophtrig can fetch the lost engine, and Hophtrig will do that while Joostein and his bloont objectimoom fixes the communicator. Here, Hophtrig will put my underwear on the outside of my trousers, so Hophtrig looks more like a hero, now what? Does anyone have a cape?
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Choey decided no lynching quite quickly. Lunching, on the other hand, was a great idea. She tucked a checked napkin into her sparkly collar ring, and pulled out a large bowl of steaming green aoli pasta. It smelled divine.
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
Dimthing Tours would like to propose the following schedule.
8am UK time tomorrow (Tuesday): nominations close. Voting opens.
8pm UK time Friday: voting closes.
8am UK time Monday: night actions are resolved and announced. Nominations open.
And thereafter:
8pm UK Wednesday: nominations close. Voting opens.
8pm UK Friday: voting closes.
8am UK Monday: night actions resolved and announced. Nominations open.
Any entities who believe they will be unable to contribute appropriate night actions or votes under this schedule should inform Dimthing Tours in public or privately so that Dimthing Tours may attempt to accommodate their requirements.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
Gräfinn Ekätärinä Eliäbooloon bræks oown rooles.
[...]äct against ræson of säving goodies äs much äs poossible
[...]Älso mooch bloober - tälking things noot helping,
[...]Noot poot up three candidates but mäny-two.
You make ze fact zat I discussed my thoughts on everyvun, and not just three, a reason for suspicion? Zat is incomprehensible. Ve vant more speech, more opinion, more argument, not less. Zat is ze only data ve have to spot ze intruders if ze inspectors fail us. Und zey might.
Ze truth is zat if everyvun vere to speak as much and as openly as I do, ve (vell, I, but some others as vell) vould likely spot all ze killers vithin three days. Zere might be mistakes, but zen ve vould get zem, because it is difficult to be consistently misleading all ze time. Und you vant to discourage people from speaking? Zat is senseless.
Zen you say zat it is suspicious not to go vith ze plan of not nominating anybody. Und use zat as a reason to nominate somevun yourself? Do you not see ze contradiction zere?
I am not convinced zat ve should not evict somevun. I think zat is trusting too much in our investigators to solve ze puzzle for us. Ve do not have to be very unlucky for zat to fail. I vill be very happy, ven ze investigators have had ze chance to see vich of zem is vich, to look for vays in vich ve use zem to vin, but I do not think ve should do nothing until zat happens. If zey are killed before zey reveal zeir findings, vat do ve do zen?
If you agree vith zat, and think ve should kill vith good reason, zen your reason for nominating me vas untrue. If you do not agree vith zat, und think ve should not kill anyvun, zen you should obviously not be nominating anyvun. Und I think you are too experienced und clever to make such a mistake in ze thinking.
I am still suspicious of John, but I do not know him at all, so vile I think he is acting as a killer might, I am not as sure that he is acting as he might if guilty. But I have met other Käses in ze past, und I think zat your thinking is unvorthy of zem here. Codine, my other suspect, has broken her silence and so is now keeping ze rules. So I vill nominate Joostein Käse.
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
John had spent a couple hours with his hood pulled down, thoughtfully pecking on his padd. He had been looking over records of previous, similar occurrences in Limbo and elsewhere. He discovered that the mafia seemed to win more than half of the time. Actually, by his count the mafia was 4-1, and that wasn't considering games that he couldn't find for whatever reason.
Obviously the normal way of doing things doesn't work too good too well.
"What if we reverse the question?" he asked the room. "If I recall correctly, not one mutineer walked the plank in the most recent game, despite so much time and talk being spent trying to figure out who was guilty. So let's change the equation. Let's figure out who is innocent, and work from there."
He thought a minute more. "Being the kind chap that I am, I'll go first. I've re-read the records from the accident to present, looking for inconsistencies and trying to read subtext. I think that Zapaterietxe is innocent. If he were possessed, he would be shooting himself and his compatriots in the foot by his arguments and reasoning. I've also come to think that Ja'ayem, Crimson, and probably Reppik Tew are innocent, for much the same reason. They've all had solid, logical arguments that (to my rookie eyes) look like bad news for the possessed. They also largely agree with each other and with me."
He paused a moment, then continued. "I'm not sure about Lady de Cooperhoop, Grafinn Eliabulon, Joostein, or Hophtrig, although I want to count them among the innocent. For now I will, unless they give me some reason not to. I had Eliabulon in the first category until her (his?) most recent post. I'm still trying to give the benefit of the doubt, though.
"I'm completely uncertain about the rest. They haven't given me enough to analyze yet."
John turned toward Grafinn Eliabulon. "I am sorry I have aroused your suspicions. I'm not trying to act innocent or guilty -- I'm innocent, so I'm just doing what comes naturally. This is the first time I've ever done anything like this. Well, except that party two years ago, where I was killed by the mafia on the first night. How can I show you I'm one of the good guys?"
He turned back to everyone else. "Let's not kick anyone out until we absolutely must. We all want to make it out of here alive, and lynching people randomly doesn't help anything. Heck, if anything it helps the possessed win all the faster."
With that, John sat down and pulled an oatmeal stout out of his bag. "Beer, anyone?"
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wet Kipper:
Reppik's face flickered a pale red colour, then reset
Excuse me. Whilst the suggestion that we list 3 fellow travellers who arouse our suspisions the most is admirable - in terms of starting discussions and providing an insight into our thoughts - it fails my logic computations for a number of reasons:
1. The resultant tally of suspicions is more likely to show a mean level of suspicions across a higher number of candidates than if we each suggested one person
2. It further clouds later discussion and calculations when trying to track each person's ideas - this is not a concern for *my* computational abilities, but is unfair to those of lower processing power.
3. It permits the malevolent to include one of their own number within their choice of good/bad/ugly as a bluff or smokescreen, though this carries risk of said bluff being inadvertently taken up by others and turned into a nomination.
4. It lowers the requirement to stand by one's choices, were we to limit our initial suspicions to a single traveller.
5. It further increases the time spent before action is taken with actual nominations.
I agree there is merit in the opinions already provided, and not wishing to go against the course that many have so far taken, however, to abide by what I have just stated, I shall limit my discussions.
I am most suspicious of that which I cannot compute, usually due to insufficient information.
What currently_ _ _ _ confuses me most is the seemingly boundless energy of the being Hophtrig, and any non-corporeal entities.
I submit my thoughts for your use. If you will pardon me, I require a time of recuperation and energy restoration.
I agree, forcing someone to play their hand does give us a certain kind of information—but a different kind than a listing of three would give us. It's also true that it increases the amount of time and (potentially) confusion, as well as the amount of information we have to process, prior to nominations and voting—but the more time we can buy before nominating and voting, the better for the innocents, as it means we can spend more time discussing and analyzing, the Possessed more time bluffing, playing their hand, and risking errors. It's perhaps most true that it removes any need to stand by a blind conviction—a sort of "I have a hunch, it's only a hunch, but, by the Absolute, I'm sticking with it" doggedness that probably isn't going to do us much good at this point.
But, dare I say it, those aren't necessarily bad things at this point. Well, okay, confusion isn't a good thing, but, right now, we have the opportunity to sort through it. If there's a good time to have an information overload, it's right here at the start, when we have the time and the minds to parse it, and enough voices to drown out any sinister influences. Remember, according to the Jury Theorem, the chances of us coming to a correct conclusion, given a greater than 50% chance of each of us individually being right based on the evidence, increases the more of us there are. If we're going to come to a group decision, then, our best hope is to get as much information as possible out in the open while everybody's still alive and we can trust the wisdom of this crowd, rather than later when our pool of innocents is smaller, the number of those trying to break the votes are proportionally greater, even if our available evidence is greater.
I'll put it this way: right now, we have the greatest advantage in numbers over the Possessed. There are three of them, plus a sympathizer who knows who they are—so four people who have perfect knowledge of who has been taken, and are going to try to skew our overall vote accordingly. On our side of the ledger are eleven innocents, who, at the time of the incident, knew nothing. They have the advantage of knowledge; we have the advantage of numbers. As time goes on, our numerical advantage will decrease, but, we hope, our disadvantage of ignorance will decrease. While it can never equal their perfect knowledge, we can hope to learn and analyze whatever data we can collect to try and press our advantage while we still have it.
Of course, later we'll have to actually pick somebody to throw under the bus. We'll have to stick to the standard method of picking a person, then forming a plurality to off a certain nominated candidate. Right now, however, our need for information is more critical than our need to lynch anyone. Thus, I proposed an easy way to find out as much as we could, even from those who would normally be opposed to vigilante justice in a state of ignorance like the one we were in when the incident first happened. We can gather information under duress and enforced commitment later, but a more casual sharing of ideas and hunches, of trying to draw people out, of making accusations to hear responses and justifications, is best done now. What it all means, we can fully sort out later, as I expect we will.
The other advantage of this sort of "name three beings you find suspicious, and tell us why" is that it isn't binding on our cycle of nomination and voting. In other words, we've just gathered some of the information we would have had to normally gain during a vote, but without anyone voting for "no lynching" or nominating "nobody"—that is, without anybody hiding their suspicions—or, it should be noted, without wasting a chance to vote that would have been done entirely in the dark. I don't know if you've noticed, but we now have data, and are in a position to use it. Our first day's nominations and votes don't have to be done by pure guesswork.
So I say we take you up on your implicit suggestion to nominate someone in the usual way and vote for them like we would normally for the sake of gathering data. Let's have both an informal vote, done in a format the Possessed weren't expecting and thus would have had trouble planning for and coordinating a response to, and a formal one, that they weren't expecting us—or me, for that matter!—to actually press forward with. After all, we aren't completely in the dark now, are we?
To be honest, when I first thought to nominate someone, I thought Lesley looked most suspicious. A pattern of vacuous statements with a minimum of analysis of the matters at hand, coupled with a trio of votes that contained only names that had each been mentioned by two thirds of the previous voters—in other words, making no unique contributions, contributing to existing trends against likely innocents, and otherwise minimizing the amount of new information we could gather—coupled with very little justification for any of her three choices other than "because I think they're fishy" looks to me like someone trying to put on the appearance of actively engaging without actually revealing anything meaningful, and, at the same time, trying to suggest and enforce a trend in voting against certain people. Nothing like being the third person to vote against someone to turn a coincidence into a rule—especially when you can do it to three people at once.
Oh, and I noticed that the two people before her also voted for her. How convenient. When you're in a four-way tie for last place, move the three people you're with ahead of you in the "suspicious person" contest, creating a pattern in their disfavor, and away from you.
So don't get me wrong, I think she's very, very suspicious—and, judging by how everyone but me voted, both before and after her, I'm not alone—but I think there's someone who looks even worse.
That's right, Reppik Tew. I'm putting you in the dock. You're the only person who has suggested—in contravention to all standard procedures and logic—that we gather less information, that we stick only to conventional strategies that the Possessed are likely to plan for in advance, and that we spend less time talking, deliberating, and looking for errors before nominating and voting, especially when this deliberation could give us the information we need to make an informed vote before day's end. What's more, I notice that you stood up to speak against me only when the vote was going very much against Lesley—that is, when she was back in the lead at 4 votes to anyone else's 3. When her attempt to stop the pattern that might have been developing against her failed (along with her attempt to suggest a counterpattern that might have taken suspicion off of her in favor of one of three others), you stepped in to argue against the form of non-binding voting that was going against your cohort. Call me paranoid, but that sounds like shitstirring to me. Furthermore, I'm picking up a low signal-to-noise ratio; of the three statements you've made since the incident, one was the statement in question, another was to apologize for your earlier form, and the third was to explicitly dismiss the idea that you had contributed something to the discussion.
Shitstirring, bullshitting, vote manipulation, circumstantial evidence of collusion with a suspected Possessed, and information suppression: that's five reasons to suspect you. You may be only a sympathizer—I've heard rumors of a strange cult that reveres the Possessors of Nature, and it would explain why you'd be eager to take the heat off of Lesley, even if you weren't Possessed yourself—but I think you should stand accused.
Come now. It was you yourself who suggested that the standard way of nominating and voting offered better information and fewer ways for the Possessed to hide than naming the three you naïvely suspected most. Don't be so glum.
[ 04. March 2014, 02:23: Message edited by: Ariston ]
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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