homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools
Thread closed  Thread closed


Post new thread  
Thread closed  Thread closed
My profile login | | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   » Ship's Locker   » Limbo   » Doctor Who: Fall 2013 (Page 16)

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.  
Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  ...  13  14  15  16  17  18  19 
 
Source: (consider it) Thread: Doctor Who: Fall 2013
balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

 - Posted      Profile for balaam   Author's homepage   Email balaam   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Nottingham, the city with a castle built into a cliff above where the river would have been rather than a moated castle?

It does not matter, the whole thing was based on the Hollywood style legends rather than the actual legends.

It was a fun episode, so I'm not bothered by the inaccuracies.

I loved it.

--------------------
Last ever sig ...

blog

Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454

 - Posted      Profile for Zacchaeus   Email Zacchaeus   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
And I understood it (sometimes I am left bemused)
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged
Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992

 - Posted      Profile for Adeodatus     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Absolutely brilliant! I can only think that Steven Moffat took Mark Gatiss quietly aside one afternoon and said, "Look, you know your nostalgic love for, and encyclopedic knowledge of, old movies? Off you go and have fun with it." And he did.

Quote of the week: "I don't need a sword. I am the Doctor. And this ... is my spoon!"

(Or it could be -
"And after Lincoln..."
"Worksop?"
"... the world!")

--------------------
"What is broken, repair with gold."

Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291

 - Posted      Profile for M.   Email M.   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I am loving this new series so far! And the new doctor!

M.

Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

 - Posted      Profile for Schroedinger's cat   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
"This is my spoon" was, I suspect, a reference to the Matrix, because the whole episode was a matrix-like reference. None of it was real.

I was less impressed, in all honesty. It was a bit "hollywood", which was the intent, but I prefer the reality - if he had discovered the real Robin Hood*, that would have been more fun for me.

But I accept that it was a bit of fun, and others enjoyed it. It gave Capaldi a chance to develop himself.

*By which I mean, some of the outlaws whose stories gave rise to the Robin Hood legend.

--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

 - Posted      Profile for orfeo   Author's homepage   Email orfeo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
That was mostly quite silly, but also entertaining.

The playing with fiction vs reality, though... that was nice. Honestly, it felt as if someone had been reading the Tardis Eruditorum blog. The guy who writes it would have LOVED all that. Is Robin Hood real? Well, is The Doctor real? "Finally, something real" he says as he walks into a spaceship.

But in sheer entertainment terms, the one bit that made me laugh very loudly indeed was "can you explain your plan without using the words sonic screwdriver".

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

 - Posted      Profile for orfeo   Author's homepage   Email orfeo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Also... no Missy this week, because in such a light-hearted episode, none of the good characters died.

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Dormouse

Glis glis – Ship's rodent
# 5954

 - Posted      Profile for Dormouse   Email Dormouse   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Do you know, I'm really not sure I like this new Doctor...but I'm not quite sure why. I really do hope he grows on me. I so want to like him!

--------------------
What are you doing for Lent?
40 days, 40 reflections, 40 acts of generosity. Join the #40acts challenge for #Lent and let's start a movement. www.40acts.org.uk

Posts: 3042 | From: 'twixt les Bois Noirs & Les Monts de la Madeleine | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
leo
Shipmate
# 1458

 - Posted      Profile for leo   Author's homepage   Email leo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
It would be like the way Blake's Seven segued from freedom fighters to terrorists, and the totalitarian government to something tolerable.

On the other hand - Clara had the Guardian in her hand with her school papers.

Perfectly legit for a teacher, I would have thought. They publish an Education Jobs section.

Indeed - if I was desperate for a new job, I'd look in The times educational Supplement.

But I have been fortunate enough to have the luxury of working in schools with whose ideology I agree - and they are the sort of schools who advertise in The Guardian.

Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

 - Posted      Profile for Penny S     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
The order of town taking depends on the way one is thinking. Derby, Nottingham and Lincoln establish a line across the country and command lines of communication between north and south. Leicester is another of the major Danelaw towns, yes, and follows naturally from taking Derby, but that would leave the possibility of John's men using the Great North Road, and possibly Ermine Street to get round behind the Sheriff.

[ 07. September 2014, 15:06: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

 - Posted      Profile for Penny S     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Also... no Missy this week, because in such a light-hearted episode, none of the good characters died.

No Missy, but a reference to the Promised Land as the destination of the robot ship.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
Starbug
Shipmate
# 15917

 - Posted      Profile for Starbug   Email Starbug   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
The episode gave us more evidence of Clara's alleged control-freakery. I liked the way both the Doctor and Robin expected to be hauled off to see the Sheriff, but Clara was taken instead.

--------------------
“Oh the pointing again. They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?” ― The Day of the Doctor

Posts: 1189 | From: West of the New Forest | Registered: Sep 2010  |  IP: Logged
Kitten
Shipmate
# 1179

 - Posted      Profile for Kitten   Email Kitten   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
"This is my spoon" was, I suspect, a reference to the Matrix, because the whole episode was a matrix-like reference. None of it was real.
.

I thought the spoon was a reference to Alan Rickman's sheriff threatening 'I'll cut your heart out with a spoon'

--------------------
Maius intra qua extra

Never accept a ride from a stranger, unless they are in a big blue box

Posts: 2330 | From: Carmarthenshire | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

 - Posted      Profile for Robert Armin     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Dormouse:
Do you know, I'm really not sure I like this new Doctor...but I'm not quite sure why. I really do hope he grows on me. I so want to like him!

Capaldi is a fine actor, who isn't being given a chance to be a fine Doctor. Almost all of his stuff with Robin was adolescent posturing (especially the stuff with the keys) which might have worked with Smith but is very silly here.

And Clara being taken (that is, chosen by someone else) is evidence of her being a control freak? No, not following that. Her being a control freak was a funny line which, I wager, will never be followed up. Typical Moffatt.

Not only am I losing hope for this series, despite its potential, I'm beginning to think that very little of any worth has been made since Troughton left.

--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498

 - Posted      Profile for doubtingthomas     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Kitten:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
"This is my spoon" was, I suspect, a reference to the Matrix, because the whole episode was a matrix-like reference. None of it was real.
.

I thought the spoon was a reference to Alan Rickman's sheriff threatening 'I'll cut your heart out with a spoon'
I thought it was a reference to the recent BBC version of The Musketeers, which featured a swordfight with piece of cutlery, I think a fork; Capaldi was Richelieu in that series - in fact he was the only really good thing in it (although it was still more watchably entertaining than last night's offering - IMVHO...).

[ 07. September 2014, 23:25: Message edited by: doubtingthomas ]

Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

 - Posted      Profile for Schroedinger's cat   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
The musketeers link makes sense. I suspect the others might have some credence too, but as Capaldi was a musketeer, that seems to be the core reference.

And I never saw any of them, because the reviews indicated it was appalling, but with good hats.

--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

 - Posted      Profile for Penny S     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Capaldi was Richelieu. No swashbucklery.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
Erik
Shipmate
# 11406

 - Posted      Profile for Erik   Email Erik   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I am sorry to say that I really didn't get on with Saturday's episode. I have loved Capaldi so far but I agree with Robert Armin on this week. Too much silly competative stuff between him and Robin which I found quite annoying quite quickly. It felt a bit like a great actor being given substandard writing.

The whole episode was like a collection of references to other things (the fighting on the bridge, the archery contest, the Indiana Jones-style slave revolt, etc) without enough actual plot to tie them together. Maybe I was just feeling a bit too grumpy to properly engage with the silliness. I normally get on quite well with the silly.

Having said all that I have really enjoyed the first two weeks and think the trailer for next week looked great.

--------------------
One day I will think of something worth saying here.

Posts: 96 | From: Leeds, UK | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
St Everild
Shipmate
# 3626

 - Posted      Profile for St Everild   Email St Everild   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Another one checking in to say that I didn't really get this weeks episode...
Posts: 1782 | From: Bethnei | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313

 - Posted      Profile for Heavenly Anarchist   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I thought it was a good romp, though the bickering between the Doctor and Robin was a bit tedious and made Clara look even more school ma'am-like. My enjoyment was probably aided by having recently watched several different Robin Hood films with our boys.

--------------------
'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop

Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

 - Posted      Profile for Hedgehog   Email Hedgehog   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I am amused by the number of theories about the spoon. Upthread, we have had suggestions of it being a reference to The Matrix, Alan Rickman's sheriff and The Musketeers. Reading a commentary on another site, that writer stated quite confidently that it was "obviously" a reference to the 7th Doctor (who played the spoons).

This last theory apparently uses the analytic approach that, if the Doctor ever used a word before, then all future uses of that word must necessarily be a conscious reference back to the prior usage. I bet volumes could be written on his use of the word "the"... [Smile]

--------------------
"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
Dormouse

Glis glis – Ship's rodent
# 5954

 - Posted      Profile for Dormouse   Email Dormouse   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
quote:
Originally posted by Dormouse:
Do you know, I'm really not sure I like this new Doctor...but I'm not quite sure why. I really do hope he grows on me. I so want to like him!

Capaldi is a fine actor, who isn't being given a chance to be a fine Doctor. Almost all of his stuff with Robin was adolescent posturing (especially the stuff with the keys) which might have worked with Smith but is very silly here.

Not only am I losing hope for this series, despite its potential, I'm beginning to think that very little of any worth has been made since Troughton left.

I suspect you may be right Robert Armin - the bickering was beneath the (Peter Capaldi) Doctor, who I feel requires a tad more gravitas, although it might have worked with Smith or Tennant.

Still, fingers crossed. I feel Capaldi is better when there's serious stuff to be done, whereas the playfulness that suited Smith so well (altho he could do serious too) doesn't sit right on Capaldi's shoulders.

I would disagree with your last statement though as I loved Christopher Eccleston, and much of Tennant before it all got far too lovey dovey. However, I don't remember the earlier Doctors very well at all.

--------------------
What are you doing for Lent?
40 days, 40 reflections, 40 acts of generosity. Join the #40acts challenge for #Lent and let's start a movement. www.40acts.org.uk

Posts: 3042 | From: 'twixt les Bois Noirs & Les Monts de la Madeleine | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992

 - Posted      Profile for Adeodatus     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
I bet volumes could be written on his use of the word "the"... [Smile]

"The definite article, so to speak," as the Fourth Doctor so pointedly said.

--------------------
"What is broken, repair with gold."

Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

 - Posted      Profile for Penny S     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Did anyone notice the photo of Patrick Troughton, playing Robin Hood, in the database slide show? (I noticed it was different from the other pictures, but not having my brain filled with all the previous avatar adventures didn't recognise it. I saw it mentioned on another site.)
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
Twangist
Shipmate
# 16208

 - Posted      Profile for Twangist   Author's homepage   Email Twangist   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Any link between these robots and the ones in the first episode?
Did seem like a filler/fun romp from the main story arc.
Also why is the new who Tardis accurately pilotable in old who it would go anywhere anytime randomly (or am I making that up?)

--------------------
JJ
SDG
blog

Posts: 604 | From: Devon | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged
Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

 - Posted      Profile for Hedgehog   Email Hedgehog   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Twangist:
Any link between these robots and the ones in the first episode?

And why do robots (a) keep crashing ships while (b) looking for the Promised Land? Is Missy's place more like a huge database (like the Library's mainframe back when we first met River Song), making it a natural resting place for robots? But then how do we explain the soldier from the Dalek episode?

quote:
Also why is the new who Tardis accurately pilotable in old who it would go anywhere anytime randomly (or am I making that up?)
Even by the time of the 4th Doctor he was getting better at piloting it. But it isn't all that pinpoint accurate: In the Dalek episode, he was weeks late in bring coffee (or maybe it was tea) to Clara. These days the general rule of thumb is that the TARDIS can be piloted with complete accuracy except for those times when it can't.

--------------------
"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909

 - Posted      Profile for Lord Jestocost   Email Lord Jestocost   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
These days the general rule of thumb is that the TARDIS can be piloted with complete accuracy except for those times when it can't.

That's how I've always assumed it. Having stolen it and never bothered with the manual - to the point where the Doctor's supposed departure, minus assistants, is the cliffhanger of one of the Meddling Monk episodes because it's such an article of faith that he can't come back for them - he just got better with practice. You have to admit that 50 years of Hartnellesque cluelessness would have got a bit dull.

I also think that half the time he just noodles around the time/space continuum with no fixed plan to see what will happen next, so accurate piloting becomes moot.

Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

 - Posted      Profile for orfeo   Author's homepage   Email orfeo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
I am amused by the number of theories about the spoon. Upthread, we have had suggestions of it being a reference to The Matrix, Alan Rickman's sheriff and The Musketeers. Reading a commentary on another site, that writer stated quite confidently that it was "obviously" a reference to the 7th Doctor (who played the spoons).

This last theory apparently uses the analytic approach that, if the Doctor ever used a word before, then all future uses of that word must necessarily be a conscious reference back to the prior usage. I bet volumes could be written on his use of the word "the"... [Smile]

There is only one true spoon.

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Matt Black

Shipmate
# 2210

 - Posted      Profile for Matt Black   Email Matt Black   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Heretic!

I liked it: big improvement on the Dalek story. In particular I liked the fact that we got to see more of the fun side of Capaldi's Doctor; we had him post-regeneratively confused in the first episode and then pretty dour and bland (IMO) last week, so it was nice to see a more 'sparky' side to him.

--------------------
"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)

Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357

 - Posted      Profile for Justinian   Email Justinian   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
The idea of The Doctor being a pacifist is surely gone now. He engineered the genocide of the daleks in the time war, as well as the resultant genocide of the time lords. That is not the act of a pacifist.

When, if ever, was he a pacifist? I've been watching some Seventh Doctor recently and he's extremely murderous at times (his scheming leading to one of the many destructions of the Daleks (as well as the first time they went upstairs)). Out of curiosity, how many of the watchers at the time would have recognised that gate and where he actually was?

And the episode? Fun schlock I was in the wrong mood for.

[ 09. September 2014, 15:47: Message edited by: Justinian ]

--------------------
My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.

Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.

Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

 - Posted      Profile for Penny S     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I did find the testosterone powered antler clashing a teensy bit irritating, as in real life. (It's much funnier when one guy is doing it and the other one doesn't notice and metaphorically steps aside to led the antlers hit something else.)
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

 - Posted      Profile for Robert Armin     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
A bit of Who trivia. Q Is Capaldi the oldest actor to play the Doctor? A It all depends.

William Hartnell was born on 8th January 1908, and his first episode as the Doctor was aired (as any fule kno) on 23rd November 1963, making him 55yrs and 10 months old at the time.

Peter Capaldi was born on 14th April 1958, and his first episode as the Doctor was aired on 23rd August 2014. That makes him 56yrs and 4 months, beating Hartnell. However, he appeared as the Doctor (other roles don’t count here) in “The Day of the Doctor” on 23rd November 2013, when he was only 55yrs and 6 months – younger than Hartnell.

Does this matter? Not at all, but I hope some other Who-vians will enjoy my research.

--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275

 - Posted      Profile for The Rogue   Email The Rogue   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Also, weren't William Hartnell's shows broadcast live whereas Peter Capaldi filmed them some months ago?

--------------------
If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?

Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909

 - Posted      Profile for Lord Jestocost   Email Lord Jestocost   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
Also, weren't William Hartnell's shows broadcast live whereas Peter Capaldi filmed them some months ago?

Semi-live, which is to say, they were pretty well recorded in real time without too much editing and post production, and broadcast almost immediately after. (Still had to be some editing, as getting the Tardis to disappear live in the studio was always a challenge ...) I think only one episode actually went out live - and that was on Christmas Day, so Hartnell ad libbed a "Merry Christmas" to the audience.

But you're right in that there was nowhere near the lead time of a modern production, and the cast were under a lot more pressure to get it right first time.

Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

 - Posted      Profile for Wood   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
Also, weren't William Hartnell's shows broadcast live whereas Peter Capaldi filmed them some months ago?

William Hartnell's first couple of years were broadcast almost live, and then only some of the parts in the studio. So like, the parts in Dalek Invasaion of Earth where the Daleks are going across Westminster Bridge, they were filmed beforehand. Likewise, many of Carole Ann Ford (Susan)'s scenes in the Aztecs were filmed beforehand because she was on holiday.

From Season 4 on, it was all recorded, I think.

[edit: ninja'ed!]

[ 10. September 2014, 12:49: Message edited by: Wood ]

--------------------
Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

 - Posted      Profile for Robert Armin     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Lord Jestcost:
quote:
I think only one episode actually went out live - and that was on Christmas Day, so Hartnell ad libbed a "Merry Christmas" to the audience.
AT the risk of being terribly picky, I don't think you're right about this. The episode in question was "The Feast of Stephen", part of "The Dalek Masterplan", and the entire thing would have been semi-live, as you aptly put it. Wishing the audience a happy Christmas happened quite a bit back in the 60s, and there would have been time to edit it out if it wasn't wanted. (My source is Doctor Who: The Television Companion, sadly out of print but the best guide in existence to classic Who.)

--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498

 - Posted      Profile for doubtingthomas     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
...it was nice to see a more 'sparky' side to him.

I'm not sure that is what we saw. Rather, it all seemed a bit as if it had been written for Matt Smith's Doctor (who I did like very much as long as he was played by Matt Smith), but accidentally produced a year late. (Robert Armin hinted in the same direction a few days back.)

There were other things I disliked about Robot, too, but the Doctor's portrayal grated particularly with me. On the other hand, I did like his dourness in the previous episode (whatever else was wrong with that story), so it probably all comes down to personal taste....

Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged
Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

 - Posted      Profile for Hedgehog   Email Hedgehog   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Lord Jestcost:
quote:
I think only one episode actually went out live - and that was on Christmas Day, so Hartnell ad libbed a "Merry Christmas" to the audience.
AT the risk of being terribly picky, I don't think you're right about this. The episode in question was "The Feast of Stephen", part of "The Dalek Masterplan", and the entire thing would have been semi-live, as you aptly put it. Wishing the audience a happy Christmas happened quite a bit back in the 60s, and there would have been time to edit it out if it wasn't wanted. (My source is Doctor Who: The Television Companion, sadly out of print but the best guide in existence to classic Who.)
I can give a little more detail from Doctor Who The Handbook -- The First Doctor, which gives both production and airing dates for the episodes.

So, just for example, there was a little two-part story immediately after the first Dalek story. It is sometimes called "The Edge of Destruction" and sometimes "Inside the Spaceship." The studio recording of the story happened on January 17 and January 24, 1964 in Lime Grove D. The broadcast dates were February 8 and February 15,1964. So, as Lord Jestocost observed, the stories did not go out live, but there was not much time between recording and transmission. The stories have the feel of a live recording for two primary reasons. First, they were not permitted to have to many cuts in the recording (there is a reference to this in An Adventure in Space & Time, the recent TV movie about the early days of the show). As a result, they would do such things as have Ian & Barbara leave a scene and stay on the Doctor & Susan talking for a bit. The actors playing Ian and Barbara would hurry over to another set and get ready there and then the camera would switch to them--so no cut in recording. This is how a live production would be done as well. The second reason it feels live is that they would not incur the expense of re-filming for minor mistakes or flubs of lines. Thus, the early stories have actors stumbling over their lines as if it were a live recording--but it was all on tape.

As for the "Feast of Steven" it doesn't look like it went out live. It was broadcast on December 25, but studio recording was done on dates like December 10 and 17, with filming at Ealing done on December 23. There is no mention in The Handbook that it was a live episode (and that is the sort of trivia that this book would normally include).

--------------------
"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

 - Posted      Profile for orfeo   Author's homepage   Email orfeo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
The idea that the Merry Christmas was an ad lib has been debunked.

Hedgehog is right, though, about the basic nature of the recording sessions. It's not just for Doctor Who, it's for all television of that period. It was far too expensive to stop and start filming and re-take, so the idea was to carry on through a scene as much as possible. They'd only stop for absolute disasters. And all the line flubs, bumping into 'solid' walls etc. that we see and now laugh at were not considered bad enough. That was an acceptable standard for television at the time.

[ 11. September 2014, 03:10: Message edited by: orfeo ]

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Timothy the Obscure

Mostly Friendly
# 292

 - Posted      Profile for Timothy the Obscure   Email Timothy the Obscure   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I saw a couple of the original (Hartnell) episodes back in the day, and they completely failed to make any impression on me (it was also a comic strip in one of those boy's magazines, and equally baffling). So I got it from Netflix, just to figue out what I'd been missing, and it turned out I was right--it was utterly lame in the '60s. And I actually like watching a lot of old B&W shows--but the first Doctor is the least appealing character ever. And Ian, Barbara, and Susan are nearly as bad. And the Daleks look like gas pumps on roller skates....

--------------------
When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
  - C. P. Snow

Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

 - Posted      Profile for Wood   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I don't know. Some of the Hartnell stories are a bit rubbish, but The Dalek Invasion of Earth, as mentioned before, is, for all its hokey daftness, one of the grimmest things I have ever seen. This on a kid's programme: a story that opens on a post apocalyptic riverbank with a guy committing suicide next to a sign that says "it is forbidden to dump bodies in the river"...

--------------------
Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

 - Posted      Profile for Wood   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
It should be noted that in the first few Doctor Who stories, the Doctor isn't the goodie. The first Dalek story (which I actually quite rate) is one of those. Within about a year, he was solidly the character we think of him being.

--------------------
Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

 - Posted      Profile for Schroedinger's cat   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
When considering the early stories, you have to also look at contemporary work, like Quatermass. Production standards and quality was similar.

The era I remember is generally a little later (The series is about as old as me). The Pertwee era had contemporary production standards - I recently rewatched the superb Omega Factor, broadly contemporary, and with problems that are blindingly clear today, but we accepted at the time.

We have to remember that the first public broadcast in the UK was 1929 - that is 85 years ago. Dr Who is 50 years old - over half the age of public television. The techniques have developed substantially since the start, and the early Doctors are actually comparatively early - there is very little from that era that has continued.

--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

 - Posted      Profile for Wood   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Quite right. In a large way, people in the industry still thought of TV as theatre on film. It's actually impressive how quickly Doctor Who broke a lot of those constraints.

--------------------
Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

 - Posted      Profile for Wood   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I was musing, as I do, about what one would come up with if asked to produce a list of one really good and one terribad story for each Doctor. You'd have to exempt Eight (only two televised appearances) and Twelve (not a full series yet) and accept that Six's best stories are merely Ok, but still.

Good:
1. The Dalek Invasion of Earth;
2. The War Games;
3. Spearhead From Space;
4. Genesis of the Daleks;
5. The Caves of Androzani;
6. Revelation of the Daleks;
7. Ghost Light;
9. The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances;
10. Human Nature/The Family of Blood;
11. The Eleventh Hour.

Godawful:
1. The Gunfighters;
2. The Krotons;
3. The Time Monster;
4. The Nightmare of Eden;
5. Warriors of the Deep;
6. Attack of the Cybermen;
7. Time and the Rani;
9. The Long Game;
10. Journey's End;
11. The Rings of Akhaten.

I think I left out some of my favourite stories. Like Kinda is actually my favourite Doctor Who story of all time... But a lot of people don't like it. I suspect the most controversy will surround my Tenth and Eleventh choices, if only because I actually disliked David Tennant's Doctor intensely...

--------------------
Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909

 - Posted      Profile for Lord Jestocost   Email Lord Jestocost   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
I was musing, as I do, about what one would come up with if asked to produce a list of one really good and one terribad story for each Doctor ...

I'd go with that apart from your Six choices (and noting the point about his oeuvre generally). Surely even "Attack of the Cybermen" was Oscar material compared to "Timelash", which even the appearance of Paul Darrow couldn't save. For "good" Six I'd go for "Mindwarp", because of BRIAN BLESSED and the genuinely shocking way it ended.

And while I'm here, thanks to everyone for clarification on the Hartnell Christmas episode!

Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

 - Posted      Profile for Wood   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Jestocost:
I'd go with that apart from your Six choices (and noting the point about his oeuvre generally). Surely even "Attack of the Cybermen" was Oscar material compared to "Timelash", which even the appearance of Paul Darrow couldn't save.

Frankly, it was a pretty close run thing.

quote:
For "good" Six I'd go for "Mindwarp", because of BRIAN BLESSED and the genuinely shocking way it ended.
And Sil, as well, granted. But it's problematic because it's got that darned framing sequence...

--------------------
Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

 - Posted      Profile for Dafyd   Email Dafyd   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
You'd have to exempt Eight (only two televised appearances)

Only one, and that's only if you think five minutes on the internet really counts as televised. [Smile]

I am restricted in the bad challenge by not having watched a lot of stuff that hasn't got a good reputation of one kind or another. So I'm going for some compromise between bad and overrated.

1. The Time Meddler.
2. The War Games (if we can exclude the last episode; Power of the Daleks if we have to leave it in.)
3. Carnival of Monsters
4. Horror of Fang Rock
5. Enlightenment.
6. Vengeance on Varos
7. Remembrance of the Daleks
9. Empty Child / Doctor Dances
10. The Girl in the Fireplace
11. The Big Bang / The Pandorica Opens

Most Overrated...
1. War Machines.
2. Tomb of the Cybermen.
3. Planet of the Spiders.
4. Pyramids of Mars
5. Earthshock
6. Two Doctors
7. Time and the Rani.
9. Boom Town.
10. Stolen Earth / Journey's End.
11. Vincent and the Doctor.

[ 11. September 2014, 13:24: Message edited by: Dafyd ]

--------------------
we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

 - Posted      Profile for Wood   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
You'd have to exempt Eight (only two televised appearances)

Only one, and that's only if you think five minutes on the internet really counts as televised. [Smile]
Eight minutes, dude. ACCURACY.

quote:
I am restricted in the bad challenge by not having watched a lot of stuff that hasn't got a good reputation of one kind or another.
You are lucky, truly.

quote:
1. The Time Meddler.
2. The War Games (if we can exclude the last episode; Power of the Daleks if we have to leave it in.)

Whoa, whoa, whoa. The last episode of the War Games? The one that most people think is the best bit? REALLY?

quote:
3. Carnival of Monsters
4. Horror of Fang Rock

Both absolute delights. Carnival was a possible for my favourite Third Doctor story.
quote:
5. Enlightenment.
See, this is the other Really Good Fifth Doctor story apart from Kinda and Caves of Androzani, so fair play.
quote:
6. Vengeance on Varos
I very nearly named this one too, apart from the line "You'll excuse me if I don't join you." It is probably better than Revelation of the Daleks though. Sil is brilliant.
quote:
7. Remembrance of the Daleks
Thing about the seventh Doctor is that there are so many more good stories than people remember. At least six good ones, easy. All worthy.
quote:
9. Empty Child / Doctor Dances
10. The Girl in the Fireplace

I am not sure The Girl in the Fireplace is Moffat's finest moment. It... I dunno. A lot of Moffat's worst tendencies are beginning to come out. It is not as bad in that respect as Blink, mind.
quote:
11. The Big Bang / The Pandorica Opens
I do love the bit where he stands on Stonehenge and says to the assembled aliens, come and have a go if you think you're hard enough. One of my other favourites was Hide, also... Oh wait. It's down there.

quote:

Most Overrated...
1. War Machines.

I have not seen it, granted.
quote:
2. Tomb of the Cybermen.
The first couple episodes are cracking, but it really does all go to pot when the Cybermen wake up.
quote:
3. Planet of the Spiders.
Steady on now, though. This isn't one of the greats, but it's a lot of fun.
quote:
4. Pyramids of Mars
Oh my. Really? Really? Pyramids of... I mean, really?
quote:
5. Earthshock
I agree with you here though. I hate Earthshock. It is terrible.
quote:
6. Two Doctors
7. Time and the Rani.

You can't overrate something that's widely regarded as terrible though.
quote:
9. Boom Town.
I am in two minds about this one. it has some great dialogue, but its deus ex machina ending only makes sense in the light of the series finale, so.
quote:
10. Stolen Earth / Journey's End.
Words cannot express how much I hate this story. It's godawful.
quote:
11. Vincent and the Doctor.
OH CONTROVERSY. You only named the remaining one out of my top three.

--------------------
Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

 - Posted      Profile for orfeo   Author's homepage   Email orfeo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
There are some damn good Hartnell stories.

Unfortunately, some of the best ones, judging by the Loose Canon reconstructions, are from the period of Season 3 that is largely lost. The Myth Makers struck me as being particularly good, and in fact that whole little run when a new team was in charge just for a little while - Myth Makers, Dalek's Masterplan, The Massacre - would probably be seen as a golden era if anyone was able to view it properly.

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged



Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  ...  13  14  15  16  17  18  19 
 
Post new thread  
Thread closed  Thread closed
Open thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
follow ship of fools on twitter
buy your ship of fools postcards
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
 
  ship of fools