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Source: (consider it) Thread: Doctor Who: Fall 2013
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

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Donna was the best new series companion hands down. Which meant it was all the more awful what they did to her.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

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I think I'd rate Amy and Rory above Donna, but Donna is certainly still my second choice; shame she is in such an overall weak season. (Although Clara after making a poor initial showing is steadily climbing the ranks.)
Martha starts out well, but her character arc never really lets her develop beyond 'nobody can ever measure up to Rose'. And then what dignity her character arc gives her is blown when she gets summarily paired up with Mickey off screen.
Rose depends upon whether she's on screen or off screen. On screen she's likeable enough. Off screen she's a pain.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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The character of Martha was a waste of a terrific actor.

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Justinian
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# 5357

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quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
I think 'stalked into marriage' is a bit OTT. First of all, she was shunted back to the 1930s. Things were different then; what we would now consider sexism was the way most people behaved back then. Are you suggesting 1930s Man should have behaved like 21st Century Man in fancy dress to avoid offending us? All historical drama does this to a certain extent, but you can only go so far with it before destroying the illusion that you are recreating the past.

Secondly, you're assuming she had no choice in whether or not to marry the guy. This was 1930s Britain, not the Dark Ages (and even in the Dark Ages she wouldn't have been forced to marry him). Lazy scriptwriting, perhaps, to have her sending Sally a letter to say that she married the first guy she met and lived Happily Ever After. But I don't see any suggestion that she was coerced into marriage.

Nor me. And there's a definite line in there to indicate that she wasn't - Sally notices that her friend lied about her age, claiming to be a couple of years older than she was. Which indicates she was chasing him as much as he was her - or certainly Sally read it that way. With the minimal evidence we have, assuming stalking is ... uncharitable.

quote:
I agree with you about the ending, though. The ending is weak. Sally ends up running the DVD shop with her brother's best friend? Really? That's the summit of her ambitions? She could have done so much better... and I'm not talking about the boyfriend's looks here.
This. Very much this. The exception I see is if it gives Sally a decent income so she can go and do things like exploring abandoned buildings while doing something she basically enjoys to keep food on the table.

quote:
That's why I liked Martha (even though she couldn't act); medical student with some gumption. Leaving school with a handful of GCSEs and hanging about practising gymnastics until the Doctor turns up to whisk you away on an adventure is not a good life plan (can you tell I didn't like Rose?)
It's also something I have against Amy although she has more of an excuse.

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My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.

Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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Ladies and Gentleman, once again I find myself called upon to defend the under-appreciated Martha. She remains the only nu-Who companion to have saved the world the old fashioned way, through grit and elbow grease. She didn't merge with the TARDIS, look into the Eye of Harmony, or split into thousands of Impossible fragments. No, she walked the world - the whole world - spreading the word that saved the world. She showed tenacity and moral fibre even when relegated to servant status and patronised. I am forced to agree that setting her up with other-Micky was a mistake, an over hasty tidying up of two interesting characters, but overall she was magnificent!

I may have to set up a new MMMS - Make Mine Martha Society.

[ 16. September 2014, 14:34: Message edited by: Robert Armin ]

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357

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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
I think I'd rate Amy and Rory above Donna, but Donna is certainly still my second choice; shame she is in such an overall weak season.

I'd rate Amy and Rory as a group over Donna but Donna ahead of Amy. Despite the Amy on her own episodes being generally strong due to the writing, and Donna having to contend with The Wasp.

quote:
(Although Clara after making a poor initial showing is steadily climbing the ranks.)
Are you kidding? Her first showing, in the Snowmen, was amazing. Her first half season on the other hand? Not so much.

And nthd on Martha being the worst waste of a good actor I'm aware of on Dr. Who since Bonnie Langford. Also on Rings of Akhenaten being very creepy. (I really liked Rose with Nine - and wasn't impressed by Rose with Ten).

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My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.

Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.

Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Ladies and Gentleman, once again I find myself called upon to defend the under-appreciated Martha. She remains the only nu-Who companion to have saved the world the old fashioned way, through grit and elbow grease. She didn't merge with the TARDIS, look into the Eye of Harmony, or split into thousands of Impossible fragments. No, she walked the world - the whole world - spreading the word that saved the world. She showed tenacity and moral fibre even when relegated to servant status and patronised. I am forced to agree that setting her up with other-Micky was a mistake, an over hasty tidying up of two interesting characters, but overall she was magnificent!

I'll grant you that the one thing about Martha that made her more heroic than any of the other new series companions: she didn't get superpowers or a Massive Cosmic Significance attached to her. And she left because it was time for her to go, not because of some weird arc.

I wish there were more companions like that.

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Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

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quote:
Originally posted by Justinian:

quote:
(Although Clara after making a poor initial showing is steadily climbing the ranks.)
Are you kidding? Her first showing, in the Snowmen, was amazing. Her first half season on the other hand? Not so much.

Seconded. Although she's been given more identity in the current series.

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Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stumbling Pilgrim
Shipmate
# 7637

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Apropos of nothing that's currently being discussed, and I'm only three years late, but why have I only just discovered this ?

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Stumbling in the Master's footsteps as best I can.

Posts: 492 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

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quote:
Originally posted by Stumbling Pilgrim:
Apropos of nothing that's currently being discussed, and I'm only three years late, but why have I only just discovered this ?

That was new to me too. Loved that.

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Narcissism.

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Roseofsharon
Shipmate
# 9657

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quote:
Originally posted by Stumbling Pilgrim:
Apropos of nothing that's currently being discussed, and I'm only three years late, but why have I only just discovered this ?

Love that - thanks for the link.

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Talk about books -any books- on our rejuvenatedforum http://www.bookgrouponline.com/index.php?

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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Justinian:
quote:
(Although Clara after making a poor initial showing is steadily climbing the ranks.)
Are you kidding? Her first showing, in the Snowmen, was amazing. Her first half season on the other hand? Not so much.
I'm ignoring Asylum and Snowmen. The poor initial showing I'm talking about runs from Bells of St John to Time of the Doctor. She's been climbing the ranks since Deep Breath. (I think the potential was always there, but it wasn't being used.) Capaldi's Doctor makes a space she can fit into that Smith's Doctor didn't.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Gill H

Shipmate
# 68

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I hadn't seen that video either - that was fab.

Little [Tear] at seeing Lis Sladen in there too. Much missed.

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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.

- Lyda Rose

Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Ladies and Gentleman, once again I find myself called upon to defend the under-appreciated Martha. She remains the only nu-Who companion to have saved the world the old fashioned way, through grit and elbow grease. She didn't merge with the TARDIS, look into the Eye of Harmony, or split into thousands of Impossible fragments. No, she walked the world - the whole world - spreading the word that saved the world. She showed tenacity and moral fibre even when relegated to servant status and patronised. I am forced to agree that setting her up with other-Micky was a mistake, an over hasty tidying up of two interesting characters, but overall she was magnificent!

I'll grant you that the one thing about Martha that made her more heroic than any of the other new series companions: she didn't get superpowers or a Massive Cosmic Significance attached to her. And she left because it was time for her to go, not because of some weird arc.

I wish there were more companions like that.

I thank you M'Lud. The Defence rests.

And another vote of thanks to Stumbling Pilgrim for that wonderful clip!

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

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Another thanks for the link -though the Scots is a wee bit inpenetrable......
LC, would your vertical and horizontal accents be in any way connected with the mouth shape necessary to produce them? Only when I hear accents I can feel the shapes in my mouth.

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Might be. I wish I had a couple of representative people round to test out my theory with! (plane tickets, anyone? [Devil] )

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Paul.
Shipmate
# 37

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Someone in my Google+ circles posted this re: accents and I'd go along with it not being the accent per se. I'd go further and say it's not necessarily even Capaldi - though perhaps his particular diction style makes it worse.

No, I've been watching Doctor Who with the subtitles on at least since Ten. And whilst this is no doubt in part an age-related hearing drop-off, [Frown] , I do find there's something about the sound mix on Who in particular that means I was constantly rewinding to catch dialogue. In fact I think I was swearing at the TV through most of that speech.

Re companions - I'm another Donna fan. I don't mind the idea of an underlying sexual tension with the companions but it was nice to see a relationship not based on that. It was also nice to see someone who was her own person without having to become either a Strong Female Character or Great Mystery. I'm not counting Doctor-Donna as that was just the beginning of the end, the way they wrote her out - which I agree was a shame.

Listen - for me it's another Blink - i.e. an episode with a strong central idea, an OK execution and which for some reason almost everyone but me raves about. And another similarity I think the thing under the bed will be the Weeping Angels of Twelve - i.e. it'll return and be progressively less effective. I dunno I'm aware I have some personal reactions mixed up in this. I struggle with anxiety issues and being told Fear is a Superpower doesn't really resonate with me. In fact I think I was swearing at the TV through most of that speech.

Looking forward to next week's. I tend to like heist stories. I'm one of the few fans I know that liked Angel's "Shroud of Rahmon".

[ 17. September 2014, 11:43: Message edited by: Late Paul ]

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Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068

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Well, here's another fan of 'The Shroud of Rahmon', an excellent episode [Smile] .

As for accents, I'm usually lost with broad Scottish accents but find I can understand Capaldi pretty well. And although a fan of Matt Smith's, I got increasingly irritated at his gabbling (and Tennant's, too). So maybe it's speed more than anything.

Donna was my favourite companion - I liked her bolshiness, her strength and the way she talked back to 'space boy', and...praise the Lord, no hint of any romance, which was a blessed relief.

Clara is growing on me [Biased] .

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Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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When there was a romance between Rose and the Doctor, that was interesting because it had never been done before. Martha's quiet hero worship was also touching but, by now, the whole romance thing is very dull indeed. The rock bottom point was Amy trying to drag the Doctor into bed on her wedding night (had it been the other way round everyone would have been screaming rape).

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

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Nervous about next week's story, because it has "Time" in the title, and stories with "Time" in the title tend to be terrible.

Time and the Rani.
Last of the Time Lords.
Time Flight.
Time Lash.
Closing Time.
The Time Monster.
The End of Time.

It ain't looking good.

(On the other hand, there's the Time Warrior and Time Meddler... but...)

[ 17. September 2014, 14:48: Message edited by: Wood ]

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Narcissism.

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doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498

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quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
As for accents, I'm usually lost with broad Scottish accents but find I can understand Capaldi pretty well. And although a fan of Matt Smith's, I got increasingly irritated at his gabbling (and Tennant's, too). So maybe it's speed more than anything.

Similar feelings here - although I barely notice Capaldi's accent at all. I used to live in Scotland, so for a long time, Scottish accents were just what English sounded like.
I went to see Deep Breath in the cinema and thus got to see the 10-minute "Extra", which had clips from the read-through, with Capaldi doing lines we had just heard with something much more like his real accent [Smile]
(BTW, I can also understand Tennant better if he speaks with *his* real accent,and at half the speed.)

quote:
Donna was my favourite companion - I liked her bolshiness, her strength and the way she talked back to 'space boy', and...praise the Lord, no hint of any romance, which was a blessed relief.

Clara is growing on me [Biased] .

I definitely second Donna for the modern era, and also now have hopes for Clara.
I also liked Rose with Eccleston - to is easy to forget that there was a time before Tennant, but it I that pre-prettyboy pairing worked quite well..

[Big Grin]

Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged
Pyx_e

Quixotic Tilter
# 57

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Just caught up on I Player.

Very very Good, Very funny, very clever, very well acted throughout. So good to see some real venom, wit and thought.

Going to watch it again tomorrow.

--------------------
It is better to be Kind than right.

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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275

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When it comes to accents it seems that Clara's is wandering around the country at the moment. She used to be pretty south but is definitely (to my ear) travelling north. Will she stop when she meets the Doctor or will she continue on to Iceland and then turn into a polar bear in her last episode?

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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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I wish they would let her use her real accent. I think it's adorable.

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313

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quote:
Crap spouted by The Rogue:
When it comes to accents it seems that Clara's is wandering around the country at the moment. She used to be pretty south but is definitely (to my ear) travelling north. Will she stop when she meets the Doctor or will she continue on to Iceland and then turn into a polar bear in her last episode?

* keep picking up on her wandering into Lancashire, it reminds me of elderly relatives from my childhood [Smile]

[ 18. September 2014, 06:38: Message edited by: Heavenly Anarchist ]

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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop

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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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Too much television gives people square eyes.

Thread closed.

Ariel,
Heaven Host.

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jedijudy

Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333

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quote:
Crap spouted by Ariel:


Thread closed.

Ariel,
Heaven Host.

My hero! Yay!
[Big Grin] [Yipee]

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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.

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Tubbs

Miss Congeniality
# 440

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Opened just so * can say that * thought last Saturday's episode was really good. Hopefully this will continue!

And closed again. Because * can

Tubbs

Last Saturday? That was days ago.

Edited by Ariel. Becoz.

[ 18. September 2014, 17:42: Message edited by: Ariel ]

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged



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