|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Doctor Who: Fall 2013
|
Stumbling Pilgrim
Shipmate
# 7637
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
And Tennant and Smith should be put in a show together.
![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif) Don't they have wonderful chemistry?
I said that to my other half even before it started, while they were doing the introduction-to-how-3D-works bit. They need a series - don't care what it's about, I'll watch it!
--------------------
Stumbling in the Master's footsteps as best I can.
Posts: 492 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
Did anyone play the entire Google Doodle? I started when it first appeared but had to leave. Now it is gone.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
I had no idea that was playable thing until now.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
I'm now wondering if they will sell a new model of the sonic screwdriver toy as used by the John Hurt Doctor.
My thoughts exactly. For my nephews of course!
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
Loved it. So 11 will die on Trenzalore and 12 will come from Hurt's 8.5 regeneration?
Interesting theory, but I suspect Hurt was regenerating into Christopher Eccelstone and Moffat was giving the fans all the regenerations to view and linking that episode to the first CE one where he checks himself in the mirror.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
Don't play the doodle in IE - it works in Firefox and Chrome (though very fast in the latter), but invents extra Daleks and platforms that foul up level 2 in IE.
And I've been all through several times! Losing a great many regenerations in the graveyard.
I've often felt cheated by Moffat's story arcs and red herrings, but this held together properly and satisfactorily. The person I watched with, who has been getting to a state where he would rather not watch, thought it was good, too.
I haven't watched the party yet - the bit after the programme drawing attention to it seemed quite out of kilter with the story. I wanted quiet serious time after it.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
|
Posted
Ah, great, great! The relief! I loved it. We haven't been able to watch it again yet but will, no doubt, this afternoon. And yes, we had to watch the Name of the Doctor and the Night of the Doctor beforehand....
I had seen the rabbit scene earlier in the day for some reason but the rabbit wasn't right - too big and domestic, not a wild one. I shouldn't worry about that, should I?
We didn't think to get jellybabies, but we did have Dr. Whoumous with Face of Bo bread, Salamander Slices and Donna kebabs to eat while watching it!
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
My thought about the rabbit entirely. It was obviously a fake!
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Don't play the doodle in IE - it works in Firefox and Chrome (though very fast in the latter), but invents extra Daleks and platforms that foul up level 2 in IE.
Dn't try playing it on your mobile or in Opera either. I couldn't get it to work on the mobile and it crashed Opera.
[ 24. November 2013, 10:39: Message edited by: Ariel ]
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
tessaB
Shipmate
# 8533
|
Posted
At the cinema my husband and I were chatting to the man sitting next to us. He and I were obviously really big fans and my husband and his girlfriend (not there) are patient with us. Strange man suggested to my husband that they should swap as he said (jokingly I think) that he would love a real Whovian girlfriend!!
Now Dr Who is important but there are limits (I think...... are there?)
--------------------
tessaB
eating chocolate to the glory of God
Holiday cottage near Rye
Posts: 1068 | From: U.K. | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
|
Posted
Did anyone see Peter Davison's special, by the way? Great fun - lovely gentle sense of humour and well put together.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Did anyone play the entire Google Doodle?
I was very pleased with myself after I won. It took this old lady a while to figure out what to do on the first challenge. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
--------------------
Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Holy crap, that was-- Holy crap. ![[Tear]](graemlins/tear.gif)
Adeodatus, will you please say something wise and erudite? I'm stuck right now.
Sorry, Kelly, you're on your own - I'm still incoherent.
I just watched it again. Chills down the spine at this moment:
"I could retire and curate this place."
"You know, I rather think you might."
(If you've seen it, you'll know what happens. If you haven't, then when you do make sure you have a hanky.)
Ariel - I watched the Peter Davison special last night, just before bedtime. Brilliant! Lots of gorgeous in-jokes, very witty.
--------------------
"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Did anyone see Peter Davison's special, by the way? Great fun - lovely gentle sense of humour and well put together.
That was brilliant! Just watched it. Now going back to the special to have a look in the Undergallery.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
Forgot earlier - was there not just a touch of Blackadder's good queen Bess about the Doctor's version? Rather than dear Glenda?
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Did anyone see Peter Davison's special, by the way? Great fun - lovely gentle sense of humour and well put together.
That was brilliant! Just watched it. Now going back to the special to have a look in the Undergallery.
Some definite good bits, loved the Tom Baker bit, quite liked the John Barrowman bit, and Mrs Tennent-nee-Davidson on the phone. (hopefully that doesn't spoil too much)
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jammy Dodger
Half jam, half biscuit
# 17872
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Forgot earlier - was there not just a touch of Blackadder's good queen Bess about the Doctor's version? Rather than dear Glenda?
Yes there certainly was...."Who's Queen?"
--------------------
Look at my eye twitching - Donkey from Shrek
Posts: 438 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
|
Posted
I wonder if we'll find out how the Doctor changed from being Queen Elizabeth's husband to being her mortal enemy.
--------------------
If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
Google is your friend
I did find that link. But in my Firefox, it did not work. I've script blockers that, even when seeming to allow scripts on a page apparently still block some.
Thank you though, after seeing your post I thought to try it in Chrome.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
I wonder if we'll find out how the Doctor changed from being Queen Elizabeth's husband to being her mortal enemy.
I assumed it's simply because he promised to be straight back, and wasn't.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
|
Posted
I loved the episode (and I loved the 50th Celebration in London where there were so many old Doctors and companions). So far no one has talked about the major plothole however; is it worth doing so, or will that kill the mood?
(It didn't stop me from thoroughly enjoying the episode; any thing directed by Moff is bound to be incoherent at some level.)
--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
I wonder if we'll find out how the Doctor changed from being Queen Elizabeth's husband to being her mortal enemy.
Ummmmm, they were married. What better explanation do you want?
<Hedgehog being horribly cynical...but he's had a bad week>
--------------------
"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
|
Posted
Just watched it online.
I seem to have seen a few links to various Doctors in it: The scarf, the opening scene of the first opening scene; I swear some of the patterns on walls (right towards the end when 11 was alone) and on one of the Tardis' was a hint at something too.
Oh, and that was so Queenie from Blackadder.
[ 24. November 2013, 21:10: Message edited by: Rosa Winkel ]
--------------------
The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yonatan:
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
Loved it. So 11 will die on Trenzalore and 12 will come from Hurt's 8.5 regeneration?
Interesting theory, but I suspect Hurt was regenerating into Christopher Eccelstone and Moffat was giving the fans all the regenerations to view and linking that episode to the first CE one where he checks himself in the mirror.
It looked like Ecclestone to me. (Christbearer Churchstone - what a name that is to carry.)
Re: the doodle - someone elsewhere has investigated the egg in the bush, worth doing, twice.
And what plot hole?
[ 24. November 2013, 21:29: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
So far no one has talked about the major plothole however; is it worth doing so, or will that kill the mood?
Plot holes???? In Doctor Who????? What rubbish is this that you speak?
--------------------
"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
|
Posted
You know what I said upthread about the more I know of Tom Baker, the less I like his Doctor? Forget it. There's an (official) clip on Youtube of his contribution to Day, and I've just watched it three times. Two minutes on the screen, and he owns it. The man is made of charisma. My Doctor!
I haven't spotted any big plot holes yet. Some of the plot is fairly loosely knitted, it's true - things unresolved, gaps left for our imagination to fill in - but no actual holes, I think.
--------------------
"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
uffda
Shipmate
# 14310
|
Posted
I agree that Tom Baker stole the show with his appearance as the curator. Trouble is, I watched him regenerate, so how do they explain his presence as an old man?
--------------------
Invincibly ignorant and planning to stay that way!
Posts: 1031 | From: Buffalo, NY | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by uffda:
Trouble is, I watched him regenerate, so how do they explain his presence as an old man?
Were so you awestruck by his presence that you didn't listen to his dialogue about revisiting old faces?
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
|
Posted
Ah well. I just don’t get the Bakermania but I guess it made some people happy. What about these plot holes then? Do you mean why have three Doctors at all?
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
|
Posted
Is the effort required to re-number the Doctors greater or less than the change to decimalisation?
--------------------
If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
|
Posted
I' ve always hated the practice of calling Doctors by number. And now the numeronomists are confounded and utterly thrown over!
--------------------
Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
It does occur to me to wonder how that Gallifreyan picture arrived in England, and why. And how the Zygons got into it.
That it didn't occur during the programme is good. It's when one notices problems during programmes that there are problems.
What I did wonder during the programme was the young blade from the court and his attitude to witchcraft - James' court maybe, but a court in and around which John Dee, Thomas Harriott* and William Gilbert of the magnetic sphere were active might well have had a different attitude to a display of natural magic/science.
*Thomas Harriott has no records of his origin. One could do interesting things with that.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by iamchristianhearmeroar:
I think the Zygons were in different paintings weren't they? The ones with the smashed glass.
You're right. So how did they get in there - and I somehow thought they were more of that sort of thing - frozen moments of time?
[ 25. November 2013, 12:40: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Piglet
Islander
# 11803
|
Posted
I'm not really a Whovian, but I couldn't resist posting this from the inimitable Matt in the Daily Telegraph.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
--------------------
I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
quote:
Originally posted by iamchristianhearmeroar:
I think the Zygons were in different paintings weren't they? The ones with the smashed glass.
You're right. So how did they get in there - and I somehow thought they were more of that sort of thing - frozen moments of time?
It was their own technology that produced the little glass cube thing (lovely paperweight, I thought) that froze them into the paintings - probably an extension of their shape shifting technology. They were putting themselves into the paintings so that they could wait until Earth was worth plundering. Pretty cynical of them, really. It was established in the 1975 Zygon story that if there's one thing they're good at, it's hiding.
I think the paintings the Zygons were frozen into were normal 2-d ones; the Doctors got frozen into a 3-d Gallifreyan painting, which the Curator said he "acquired under unusual circumstances" (or something to that effect).
--------------------
"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
|
Posted
Rewatching - memory wipe of humans and zygons to get them into treaty talks and safely ignorable, so why did doctors not get memory wiped?
And Clara wasn't with them in the Tardis to picture to archive room trip - yet there in next scene.
And if time war was time locked as told before how come lots of coming and going into it?
Other than that, a good episode, but loved the fun of the 5ish doctors...
--------------------
http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1305 | From: west midlands | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
Rewatching - memory wipe of humans and zygons to get them into treaty talks and safely ignorable, so why did doctors not get memory wiped?
Because they are Time Lords. Their brains are a good degree more complicated that those of humans or Zygons. In the recent Cyberman story the Cyber-Controller was remarking on much the same thing. So, basically, they are wired differently and the memory wipe thing didn't have any effect.
quote:
And Clara wasn't with them in the Tardis to picture to archive room trip - yet there in next scene.
Yeah, I wondered about that at the time. I decided she must have been in the picture, but perhaps hiding in a safer spot than the Doctors.
quote:
And if time war was time locked as told before how come lots of coming and going into it?
The Smith Doctor made the same observation. And the Rose-Entity commented that he was clever to notice that. The impression I got is that the Rose-Entity was powerful enough to bypass the time lock and was responsible for getting them in and out as needed.
--------------------
"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
Rewatching - memory wipe of humans and zygons to get them into treaty talks and safely ignorable, so why did doctors not get memory wiped?
That struck me as a bit odd to have a solution to the memory problem left unused* (although the timey-whimey memory automatic wipe I think also exists in at least a few of the other episodes-though also not in a few others, especially the lighter ones).
I'm also not sure what happens after the inhaler scene (though I liked it), is that a good Zygon, one worried that they may have been through this an odd number of times, or has the human thrown away the earth as soon as the Dr leaves.
In fact what kind of memory wipe (except one going to birth, and then you need to explain for hours) could have that effect, surly you'd need memory implantation.
*obviously it had been used for the other problem.
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
I think the paintings the Zygons were frozen into were normal 2-d ones; the Doctors got frozen into a 3-d Gallifreyan painting, which the Curator said he "acquired under unusual circumstances" (or something to that effect).
Hm. No. The Zygons were in 3-d paintings. Not sure how they got their hands on Gallifreyan art. Maybe they'd been taking lessons in art theft from a Jagaroth...
I feel moved to go on a Baker binge. (T., obviously, not C. Sorry, C.) I think between myself and a friend I might have access to every one of his stories. It may take some time.
--------------------
"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
|
Posted
The plot hole that does concern me is far bigger than anything mentioned so far.
Hurt is contemplating wiping out his own people, the Time Lords, in order to destroy the Daleks and so end the Time War. The machine that could do this shows him a glimpse of the future in which he does this (why not also the future where he does not?) to help him decide. In doing do he meets two of his future selves.
Why does neither Tennant or Smith tell him this would be a pointless sacrifice? Whatever Hurt does the Daleks are going to survive, so what would be the point of wiping out Galifrey?
--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
The plot hole that does concern me is far bigger than anything mentioned so far.
Hurt is contemplating wiping out his own people, the Time Lords, in order to destroy the Daleks and so end the Time War. The machine that could do this shows him a glimpse of the future in which he does this (why not also the future where he does not?) to help him decide. In doing do he meets two of his future selves.
Why does neither Tennant or Smith tell him this would be a pointless sacrifice? Whatever Hurt does the Daleks are going to survive, so what would be the point of wiping out Galifrey?
That presumes that only the Daleks are a problem.
The mini-episode 'Night of the Doctor' makes clear, if it wasn't clear already, that the universe in general regards the Time Lords as every bit as destructive and menacing as their opponents.
[ 26. November 2013, 00:53: Message edited by: orfeo ]
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
|
Posted
That actually did flit across my mind briefly -- the fact that the Daleks do survive anyway -- but I was caught up enough in the story that I didn't think about it too much. Just got back from seeing it in the theatre (didn't watch it before the theatre since I wanted that to be the first time through), loved it, have too many thoughts to process right now.
--------------------
Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
|
Posted
There is a point where Clara is coming out of the Tardis and, as Macarius pointed out to me, the arm holding the door open is clearly not hers (I will need to go and have another look to see exactly when/where it is).
Is it just an error? Does Stephen Moffat make errors like that? Am I just reading too much into it?
And I re-watched 'An Adventure in Space and Time' last night and still didn't see Carole Anne Ford - I think she was playing 'Joyce' but I don't know who Joyce is!
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
|
Posted
Ah! Just googled it, should have thought of that before.
Will put it below, so as not to spoil it for anyone.
M.
Apparently, the mother calling children in for supper.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
The plot hole that does concern me is far bigger than anything mentioned so far.
Hurt is contemplating wiping out his own people, the Time Lords, in order to destroy the Daleks and so end the Time War. The machine that could do this shows him a glimpse of the future in which he does this (why not also the future where he does not?) to help him decide. In doing do he meets two of his future selves.
Why does neither Tennant or Smith tell him this would be a pointless sacrifice? Whatever Hurt does the Daleks are going to survive, so what would be the point of wiping out Galifrey?
If you have two sides locked in an intractable war which will only ever end when there is literally nothing left to fight over - the universe, and time itself, is burning - there are two possible solutions.
Firstly, recognise that it doesn't matter who started it, someone has to finish it. The Time Lords, even if they started out benign, have had to resort to genocidal weapons just to preserve the status quo. Everyone who hasn't previously thrown their lot in with either of the main protagonists is simply collateral damage to deny the enemy an advantage. Using the Moment to destroy both the Daleks and the Time Lords is the only way to keep something intact. Yes, the Daleks survive, as do some of the Time Lords. The point of the Moment is not to kill every last one of them but to stop the Time War. (And in that, the War Doctor isn't killing his own people in order to destroy the Daleks. It's a recognition that both need to go in order for there to be a resolution.)
The second way is to hand overwhelming advantage to one side or the other. The Time Lords could have simply laid down their weapons, have the Daleks kill them all and seize their tech. The universe would be saved, but the Daleks would eventually wipe out all non-Dalek lifeforms from all of time and space. The reverse is unlikely - the Time Lords had thrown everything they could at the Daleks, and the Moment was the MAD weapon at the end.
Since we know that the Time War ended when Galifrey was destroyed along with the Dalek fleets, we know which option was chosen. However, causality can be nuanced - just as long as the result looks the same (and this is where Moffat deserves kudos). By rejecting the use of the Moment, and freezing Galifrey in a slice of time, a third option suddenly appears which was there all along - it doesn't undo the damage already done, but it does prevent the annihilation of the Time Lords while so severely damaging the Daleks, they have to resort to pocket universes to regroup.
And Galifrey is still out there, somewhere.
--------------------
Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
The plot hole that does concern me is far bigger than anything mentioned so far.
Hurt is contemplating wiping out his own people, the Time Lords, in order to destroy the Daleks and so end the Time War. The machine that could do this shows him a glimpse of the future in which he does this (why not also the future where he does not?) to help him decide. In doing do he meets two of his future selves.
Why does neither Tennant or Smith tell him this would be a pointless sacrifice? Whatever Hurt does the Daleks are going to survive, so what would be the point of wiping out Galifrey?
That presumes that only the Daleks are a problem.
The mini-episode 'Night of the Doctor' makes clear, if it wasn't clear already, that the universe in general regards the Time Lords as every bit as destructive and menacing as their opponents.
Which is true, but then The Curator said (without actually saying, because oh he's just a poor old man who's sure he doesn't know) the Doctor should go and find Gallifrey. The best we can say is that it ended the war, and that was good. For certain values of good. The Daleks may have survived - so have the Time Lords, we now find - but the war is over, and the net death toll across the universe is much less than what it would otherwise have been. But I do wonder what Baker, T must make of his decision not to kill the Daleks at birth, in the light of this.
And anyway, who cares? It was a charming and moving adventure, which held together much better than the vast majority of Who, and was so packed with silliness and in-jokes that it gave me multiple fangasms. Best of all, it found an elegant way of sort-of rewriting history that wasn't so flimsy that it could have been built of tissue paper.
Did anyone else think the Zygons' plan to hide in the pictures until the Earth was worth conquering was a little reminiscent of Magrathean economic theory? I'd like to believe that was a deliberate nod to Douglas Adams, even though it was also an essential plot point.
--------------------
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
TurquoiseTastic
Fish of a different color
# 8978
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
Rewatching - memory wipe of humans and zygons to get them into treaty talks and safely ignorable, so why did doctors not get memory wiped?
That struck me as a bit odd to have a solution to the memory problem left unused* (although the timey-whimey memory automatic wipe I think also exists in at least a few of the other episodes-though also not in a few others, especially the lighter ones).
I'm also not sure what happens after the inhaler scene (though I liked it), is that a good Zygon, one worried that they may have been through this an odd number of times, or has the human thrown away the earth as soon as the Dr leaves.
In fact what kind of memory wipe (except one going to birth, and then you need to explain for hours) could have that effect, surly you'd need memory implantation.
*obviously it had been used for the other problem.
Presumably the memory-wipe would make them forget the details of how they were "copied". So the Zygon (who had previously stolen the inhaler) probably thought of herself as the real human, kindly lending her inhaler to the poor asthmatic Zygon.
Posts: 1092 | From: Hants., UK | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Thread closed
Printer-friendly view
