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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Doctor Who: Fall 2013
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Stumbling Pilgrim
Shipmate
# 7637
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TurquoiseTastic:
Presumably the memory-wipe would make them forget the details of how they were "copied". So the Zygon (who had previously stolen the inhaler) probably thought of herself as the real human, kindly lending her inhaler to the poor asthmatic Zygon.
But didn't the escaping (real) Osgood pick up her inhaler when the Zygon copy dropped it as she fell? In which case she really was extending an act of friendship to the former enemy - er - or something ... ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
And was anybody else slightly puzzled by the way she kept praying to the Doctor?
[ 26. November 2013, 11:34: Message edited by: Stumbling Pilgrim ]
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Stumbling in the Master's footsteps as best I can.
Posts: 492 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2004
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TurquoiseTastic
Fish of a different color
# 8978
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stumbling Pilgrim:
quote:
Originally posted by TurquoiseTastic:
Presumably the memory-wipe would make them forget the details of how they were "copied". So the Zygon (who had previously stolen the inhaler) probably thought of herself as the real human, kindly lending her inhaler to the poor asthmatic Zygon.
But didn't the escaping (real) Osgood pick up her inhaler when the Zygon copy dropped it as she fell? In which case she really was extending an act of friendship to the former enemy - er - or something ...
Ah yes - I had forgotten that. But maybe she had too!
Posts: 1092 | From: Hants., UK | Registered: Jan 2005
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stumbling Pilgrim:
quote:
Originally posted by TurquoiseTastic:
Presumably the memory-wipe would make them forget the details of how they were "copied". So the Zygon (who had previously stolen the inhaler) probably thought of herself as the real human, kindly lending her inhaler to the poor asthmatic Zygon.
But didn't the escaping (real) Osgood pick up her inhaler when the Zygon copy dropped it as she fell? In which case she really was extending an act of friendship to the former enemy - er - or something ...
And was anybody else slightly puzzled by the way she kept praying to the Doctor?
My interpretation went this way: yes, the real Osgood (hmmmmm, another "Os...."name to add to Oswin, Oswald...) anyway, Osgood did pick up the inhaler. Of which there was only one. So, alone of the group, she knew she was human. And when she loaned it as an act of kindness to her duplicate, she let the duplicate know that it was a Zygon. And then Osgood put her finger to her lips: Shhh!. Keep the secret.
Why? Because the Doctor's solution was imposed on human and Zygon alike, and it promised peace rather than war. But Osgood and her Zygon could have screwed up the process. Instead they both freely chose to keep quiet. They freely chose (symbolically on behalf of both their races) to have peace.
And why does Osgood do this? Because she is devoted to the Doctor and his ways. Because she aspires to be like him (I mean, UNIT history knows about the Doctor's scarf--that wasn't coincidence, but a sign that she was a fan of him.). So it follows that, when in danger, she would beg for the Doctor's help. Yes, it came out sounding more like a prayer, but it was also an expression of...hope. Hope for a peaceful solution. Which she got and, ultimately, ensured would happen.
Or maybe I am reading too much into it. Maybe she is just a rabbit after all.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
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Stumbling Pilgrim
Shipmate
# 7637
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
My interpretation went this way: yes, the real Osgood (hmmmmm, another "Os...."name to add to Oswin, Oswald...) anyway, Osgood did pick up the inhaler. Of which there was only one. So, alone of the group, she knew she was human. And when she loaned it as an act of kindness to her duplicate, she let the duplicate know that it was a Zygon. And then Osgood put her finger to her lips: Shhh!. Keep the secret.
Why? Because the Doctor's solution was imposed on human and Zygon alike, and it promised peace rather than war. But Osgood and her Zygon could have screwed up the process. Instead they both freely chose to keep quiet. They freely chose (symbolically on behalf of both their races) to have peace.
And why does Osgood do this? Because she is devoted to the Doctor and his ways. Because she aspires to be like him (I mean, UNIT history knows about the Doctor's scarf--that wasn't coincidence, but a sign that she was a fan of him.). So it follows that, when in danger, she would beg for the Doctor's help. Yes, it came out sounding more like a prayer, but it was also an expression of...hope. Hope for a peaceful solution. Which she got and, ultimately, ensured would happen.
Or maybe I am reading too much into it. Maybe she is just a rabbit after all.
Yes - yes, I like that. Maybe it was a case of WWTDD? And when she worked out what he would do, she did it in his name. And thinking about it, it was she who heard the Tardis ringtone at the very beginning - the sound that 'brings hope wherever it goes'. (And now I want a Tardis ringtone!)
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Stumbling in the Master's footsteps as best I can.
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I wonder if they checked the meaning of Old English name elements.
Os is a generic word for god, cognate with Norse As as in Asgard.
Oswald is god-power or rule. Oswin is god-friend. And Osgood could mean god-goodness, but the most serious sources I found have god-Geat (as in Beowulf's group) from the original spelling.
An interesting choice, if they checked.
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stumbling Pilgrim:
And was anybody else slightly puzzled by the way she kept praying to the Doctor?
My teenaged daughter, who is the biggest Doctor Who fangirl imaginable, said, "Wasn't it cool how they had a fangirl as one of the characters?" That was sort of how I saw Osgood too -- like the most rabid Doctor Who fan, wearing the scarf and all -- only in her world, the Doctor is real and can really come help them. I thought her presence there, wearing the scarf and all, was a definite shout-out to fans.
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Books and things.
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Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
I saw it again last night in the theater in 3D. The show was sold out and there were people of every age and type there...it was grand.
When I saw Baker as the a curator I thought he was the Doctor from the future and that Osgood was actually calling to him. I don't think it was a coincidance that she was wearing his scarf.
I thought we were to hope that eleven doesn't end up fighting and dying on Trenzalore but retires and becomes the curator and it is the new line that begins with 8.5 that will go and fight just like River describes in Forest of the Dead.
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Ego is not your amigo.
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
Surely though John Hurt's Doctor deserves a full number? I mean, the other Doctors called him Doctor. What I don't get is how he aged. I don't know if the Time War lasted that long.
I have heard complaints from some people my age or older that Doctor Who's turned into a children's programme. John Hurt's (Nine's) complaint about "timey-wimey" was a shot at such complaints, I believe.
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
I have heard complaints from some people my age or older that Doctor Who's turned into a children's programme.
It always was a children's programme. New Who got a bit more raunchy and lively, aimed at getting the previous generation, who had been children at the time of the first Classic Who series, to re-engage and watch it with their own children. John Hurt was great in that role - he said a few of the things I'd been thinking.
"Allons-y!"
"Geronimo!"
"Oh, for God's sake!"
[ 26. November 2013, 18:44: Message edited by: Ariel ]
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
I have heard complaints from some people my age or older that Doctor Who's turned into a children's programme. John Hurt's (Nine's) complaint about "timey-wimey" was a shot at such complaints, I believe.
Possibly. I rather thought his comments that the later Doctors should "grow up" was a way of bracing us for the fact that the next Doctor is going to be played by an older actor (Capaldi).
Although that does remind me of another favorite bit: Smith Doctor uses the phrase "timey-wimey." The Hurt Doctor is contemptuous of such childish language. The Tennant Doctor quickly comments "I don't know where he [Smith Doctor] gets that stuff." ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Although that does remind me of another favorite bit: Smith Doctor uses the phrase "timey-wimey." The Hurt Doctor is contemptuous of such childish language. The Tennant Doctor quickly comments "I don't know where he [Smith Doctor] gets that stuff."
That was one of my favourite bits too
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
They did seem to want to please the old dude, didn't they.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
"Allons-y!"
"Geronimo!"
"Oh, for God's sake!"
![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
YES.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Although that does remind me of another favorite bit: Smith Doctor uses the phrase "timey-wimey." The Hurt Doctor is contemptuous of such childish language. The Tennant Doctor quickly comments "I don't know where he [Smith Doctor] gets that stuff."
I assume Tennant's Doctor came from the pre-Martha bit of his timeline, as that's when we first learned that QE1 is furious with him. It was during the Martha era that he first used the phrase "timey-wimey" (in "Blink"). Therefore he might have actually got this from Smith's Doctor ...
Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Jestocost:
I assume Tennant's Doctor came from the pre-Martha bit of his timeline, as that's when we first learned that QE1 is furious with him.
No, he has to be from POST-Martha. If he'd done this before, then when QE1 is furious with him he'd know why she was furious.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
In fact, can't we date fairly precisely which part of his timeline the Tennant Doctor comes from? He meets up with the Smith Doctor while he's out romancing QEI, and that happens a very short time before his own regeneration. Isn't it in one of the specials near the end of Tennant's run that he mentions he's been travelling around a bit and mentions getting married and spending some time with QEI who can now no longer call herself the Virgin Queen? (I can't remember if he actually says he married QEI, or if getting married and hooking up with her were mentioned as two separate things). I think we can safely assume that at the time of this story, the Tennant Doctor has already had most of his adventures and is close to regenerating into Smith.
I find I can't talk about the new Doctors using numbers at all anymore, I'm too confused.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Somewhere someone must have a timeline, not only for the Doctors, but also for the Universe(s) - how has all this recent stuff affected the reboot, for example? If only for the writers to keep up with. I wish they would publish it.
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
I don't think the reboot is affected. The War Doctor will forget ever meeting the others, and will believe that he destroyed Gallifrey just as we've seen he does from 2005 till now. It's only Matt Smith's Doctor who'll remember the events of The Day of the Doctor. "War" and "Ten" both said "I won't remember this" - because "the time streams are out of sync". (The same memory-loss thing happened in The Three, The Five and probably The Two, but I don't think it was ever talked about.)
As to why the other Doctors didn't try to dissuade the War Doctor from destroying Gallifrey and the Daleks - when they're being held in the Tower, the Moment tells him that "they think your future is fixed". They think he has to destroy Gallifrey. (And Ten is aghast, later, when Eleven suggests changing that.)
And I'm pretty sure Ten must have come from somewhere between The Waters of Mars and The End of Time - it's in the latter that he mentions to the Ood that he's been spending time with Queen Elizabeth (and implies that "spending time with" might be something of a euphemism!).
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
And I'm pretty sure Ten must have come from somewhere between The Waters of Mars and The End of Time - it's in the latter that he mentions to the Ood that he's been spending time with Queen Elizabeth (and implies that "spending time with" might be something of a euphemism!).
My memory may be wonky, but in The End of Time doesn't he actually say he married Elizabeth...followed by muttering "That was a mistake!" Which, now, we know it was--he thought that he was proposing to a Zygon...
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
I thought the biggest plot hole was that they didn't explain WHY the Hurt Doctor would have no memory of the events of "Day of the Doctor." It's obviously necessary, because the anguish that Eccleston's, Tennant's and (earlier) Smith's Doctors felt over destroying Gallifrey has to be real. They have to really believe they did that, or it invalidates an awful lot of what's happened and who the Doctor is in the new series. So they obviously have to not remember what happened, but is there an actual in-story reason given why they wouldn't remember? I just recall Hurt saying, "I'm not going to remember any of this, am I?" and Tennant saying something like "I won't remember it either," but no real explanation as to why they wouldn't. However, it didn't bother me; I just accepted it as a necessary plot device.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Ferijen
Shipmate
# 4719
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Posted
I have to say that I enjoyed The Five(ish) Doctors almost as much as the main event... what about anyone else?
Posts: 3259 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
I thought the biggest plot hole was that they didn't explain WHY the Hurt Doctor would have no memory of the events of "Day of the Doctor." It's obviously necessary, because the anguish that Eccleston's, Tennant's and (earlier) Smith's Doctors felt over destroying Gallifrey has to be real. They have to really believe they did that, or it invalidates an awful lot of what's happened and who the Doctor is in the new series. So they obviously have to not remember what happened, but is there an actual in-story reason given why they wouldn't remember? I just recall Hurt saying, "I'm not going to remember any of this, am I?" and Tennant saying something like "I won't remember it either," but no real explanation as to why they wouldn't. However, it didn't bother me; I just accepted it as a necessary plot device.
Trudy - see Adeodatus above. As it turned out, the Hurt Doctor barely had time to forget, as we saw him begin regeneration (into Ecclestone - probably) just after dematerialisation.
(I think that I think about this too much... ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif) Doesn't help that I've turned my daughter into a mildly obsessive fan as well)
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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor
At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken
Posts: 2696 | From: my desk (if I can find the keyboard under this mess) | Registered: May 2001
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rev per Minute:
Doesn't help that I've turned my daughter into a mildly obsessive fan as well)
Only mildly obsessive? You're not trying hard enough.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Stumbling Pilgrim
Shipmate
# 7637
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Posted
Probably another stupid question - if Kate was horrified to discover the Doctor was still inside the Tardis when she had it airlifted off to London, where did she think he was, and how did she expect him to find it and get to London to reclaim it? Why did she want it without him in it anyway?
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Stumbling in the Master's footsteps as best I can.
Posts: 492 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2004
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Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
And another one: Why did Hurt (Nine) regenerate? He didn't need to.
Didn't he mutter the "body wearing thin" line, first quoth by Hartnell? We don't know how long he had been in that body or what internal damage he had suffered or ...
Oh, hell, because plot, that's why.
Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
Well yeah, coming back to my earlier question about how he had managed to age.
Why there needed to be a mystery about who he regenerated into is beyond me, other than that Chris Eccleston and the production team had a fall-out and he didn't want to work with them and therefore be in the episode.
Either that, or it leaves options open for Another Doctor.
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
Why there needed to be a mystery about who he regenerated into is beyond me, other than that Chris Eccleston and the production team had a fall-out and he didn't want to work with them and therefore be in the episode.
Eccleston has repeatedly said that he doesn't want to appear in Doctor Who again. He says that he doesn't like to reprise parts.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
I think the whole thing would have been much stronger (not that it wasn't great anyway) if they had been able to get Eccleston on board. His absence was a bit of a gaping hole. With the comment about the ears it was pretty clearly set up that Hurt was regenerating into Eccleston, but there really was no immediate death/crisis that made his regeneration necessary.
I assumed Hurt had aged so much because he'd been the War Doctor through years and years and years of fighting that we didn't get to see. While he did a great job, I'd have been quite happy to see the whole War Doctor storyline (going right back to the mysterious appearance at the end of Name of the Doctor) played out with the older, more hardened-looking Paul McGann that we saw in the Night of the Doctor minisode -- I think he would have done a great job with that, without requiring us to re-number our Doctors by throwing in a new one. But given how happy everyone was with John Hurt's performance (and it was great) I can see how that would be an unpopular opinion.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Anyone planning a visit to Bonham's on 18 December?
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
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tessaB
Shipmate
# 8533
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
And another one: Why did Hurt (Nine) regenerate? He didn't need to.
I thought he regenerated because he had been artificially generated into himself to fulfill a function. (Oh Lord, how my old English teacher would have hated that sentence.)
Anyhow....as he had completed his task i.e. ended the Time War, that particular regeneration was no longer needed.
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tessaB
eating chocolate to the glory of God
Holiday cottage near Rye
Posts: 1068 | From: U.K. | Registered: Sep 2004
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Hawk
Semi-social raptor
# 14289
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
What I don't get is how he aged. I don't know if the Time War lasted that long.
The Time War occurred outside of normal space time and it's unclear how long it was for the participants. Especially considering one of the strategies used was to rewrite time to reverse the effects of lost battles on occasion so millions died, were resurrected and died all over again. In a time locked war, waged by time travellers, some participants could have been fighting for many thousands of years, others for only a handful.
Which is a way of saying, the doctor had aged as much as the plot needed him to.
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“We are to find God in what we know, not in what we don't know." Dietrich Bonhoeffer
See my blog for 'interesting' thoughts
Posts: 1739 | From: Oxford, UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tessaB:
I thought he regenerated because he had been artificially generated into himself to fulfill a function. (Oh Lord, how my old English teacher would have hated that sentence.)
Anyhow....as he had completed his task i.e. ended the Time War, that particular regeneration was no longer needed.
Oh, that's nice. I hadn't thought of that. My problem with the regenerations was that I couldn't really see why they needed Hurt's Doctor at all (apart from the fact that he's a brilliant actor and quietly stole every scene he was in). Wouldn't McGann have sufficed for the "War Doctor"? (Or wasn't McGann available?)
As to Christopher Eccleston, I think his reluctance to be associated with the show is simply him being a good jobbing actor - he doesn't want to be defined by the role, which would be a danger if he continued to revisit it. For the fans, it's unfortunate, but for the actor it makes perfect sense, and we've just got to get used to the fact that he's unlikely ever to appear as the Doctor again, except in archive clips or as a CGI effect.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Stumbling Pilgrim
Shipmate
# 7637
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Posted
Um - why did Eight not regenerate spontaneously anyway? And now attempting to answer my own question - was it anything to do with the Tardis being in ruins (again)? Does he need her energy as she needs his to function properly? Or was he so distressed by Cass's reaction to him, representative of that of the remaining universe, that he chose not to? (I'm assuming he can make that choice, since the Master once did just to spite the Doctor.)
And edited because I've just thought some more about that - IIRC the regeneration from Seven to Eight took a long time, with unfortunate consequences. Perhaps it was going to happen in due course anyway but the Sisterhood headed it off so they could control it (didn't look like it though), and it's because of what they did that it now happens so quickly? I dunno, what does everyone think?
[ 28. November 2013, 16:21: Message edited by: Stumbling Pilgrim ]
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Stumbling in the Master's footsteps as best I can.
Posts: 492 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2004
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
My problem with the regenerations was that I couldn't really see why they needed Hurt's Doctor at all (apart from the fact that he's a brilliant actor and quietly stole every scene he was in). Wouldn't McGann have sufficed for the "War Doctor"? (Or wasn't McGann available?)
Yes, that was exactly my though too (see above). After seeing what McGann was able to do in that short minisode, I would have loved to have seen him as the War Doctor.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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TurquoiseTastic
Fish of a different color
# 8978
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ferijen:
I have to say that I enjoyed The Five(ish) Doctors almost as much as the main event... what about anyone else?
yes yes - I loved the dream sequence near the beginning...
Posts: 1092 | From: Hants., UK | Registered: Jan 2005
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
My problem with the regenerations was that I couldn't really see why they needed Hurt's Doctor at all (apart from the fact that he's a brilliant actor and quietly stole every scene he was in). Wouldn't McGann have sufficed for the "War Doctor"? (Or wasn't McGann available?)
Moffat says he thinks McGann's Doctor is just too nice. He can't imagine him pushing the big red button.
Tennant was the Doctor four times as long as Eccleston and his career seems to have moved on alright.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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Panda
Shipmate
# 2951
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Posted
I loved it when the Tardis was re-setting itself and briefly looked like a much earlier version - 'The circles - I loved the circles.'
'What are they for?'
'No idea.'
[ 29. November 2013, 13:28: Message edited by: Panda ]
Posts: 1637 | From: North Wales | Registered: Jun 2002
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Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by Rev per Minute:
Doesn't help that I've turned my daughter into a mildly obsessive fan as well)
Only mildly obsessive? You're not trying hard enough.
She has gone beyond me and is obsessive over 'Sherlock', 'Avengers' and 'Supernatural' as well. My work here is done... ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor
At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken
Posts: 2696 | From: my desk (if I can find the keyboard under this mess) | Registered: May 2001
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stumbling Pilgrim:
Um - why did Eight not regenerate spontaneously anyway? And now attempting to answer my own question - was it anything to do with the Tardis being in ruins (again)? Does he need her energy as she needs his to function properly? Or was he so distressed by Cass's reaction to him, representative of that of the remaining universe, that he chose not to? (I'm assuming he can make that choice, since the Master once did just to spite the Doctor.)
And edited because I've just thought some more about that - IIRC the regeneration from Seven to Eight took a long time, with unfortunate consequences. Perhaps it was going to happen in due course anyway but the Sisterhood headed it off so they could control it (didn't look like it though), and it's because of what they did that it now happens so quickly? I dunno, what does everyone think?
It is possible to kill a Time Lord before he can regenerate. Cut of his head, for example. It is possible for a Time Lord to be so badly damaged that they simply cannot regenerate. For example, if one happened to be in a spaceship that just crashed into a planet. That could kill one deader than a dead thing that is deceased. Unless the Sisterhood happens to be around and can temporarily restore life functions long enough to allow the Time Lord to regenerate. Which is exactly what happened with 8th.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
I wonder if the next Doctor will have circles.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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TurquoiseTastic
Fish of a different color
# 8978
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Posted
This is maybe a terrible thing to say but... wasn't the... uh.... the, you know, the...
![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) Valeyard
supposed to be an amalgamation of the 12th & 13th Doctors' "dark side"? Or is a "let us never speak of this again" thing?
Posts: 1092 | From: Hants., UK | Registered: Jan 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TurquoiseTastic:
This is maybe a terrible thing to say but... wasn't the... uh.... the, you know, the...
Valeyard
supposed to be an amalgamation of the 12th & 13th Doctors' "dark side"? Or is a "let us never speak of this again" thing?
The Valeyard got mentioned in 'The Name of the Doctor' (ie the last episode before this one) so I don't think they've forgotten about him.
I finally got around to watching The Five(ish) Doctors, which was an absolute hoot. Those guys were extremely willing to make fun of themselves. And then I watched An Adventure In Space And Time, which I found extremely touching. Didn't spot any of the cameos even though I knew they were in there.
Thought it was quite funny saying what a pity it was that Marco Polo wasn't in colour, because the reconstruction by Loose Cannon is in colour, based as it is on on-set colour photographs which were, for a long time, the only thing known to have survived from that story.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Ohhhhhhh.... and there are rumours as of just a week ago that Marco Polo footage might have been recovered?
Not that the Mirror is an especially reliable source for these things.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/doctor-who-missing-episodes-seven-2839102
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Dormouse
Glis glis – Ship's rodent
# 5954
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Posted
I am so desperate to read this thread but still haven't had time to watch The Day of the Doctor yet!!!! It WILL happen soon!
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What are you doing for Lent?
40 days, 40 reflections, 40 acts of generosity. Join the #40acts challenge for #Lent and let's start a movement. www.40acts.org.uk
Posts: 3042 | From: 'twixt les Bois Noirs & Les Monts de la Madeleine | Registered: May 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
The Valeyard got mentioned in 'The Name of the Doctor' (ie the last episode before this one) so I don't think they've forgotten about him.
I'm largely of the school that the only canonical Colin Baker stories are on audio.
The new series can invent a character called the Valeyard if they wish. They can even give him some backstory in some unrecorded adventure with the Sixth Doctor. It doesn't mean we saw it happening on screen.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Ronald Binge
Shipmate
# 9002
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Ohhhhhhh.... and there are rumours as of just a week ago that Marco Polo footage might have been recovered?
Not that the Mirror is an especially reliable source for these things.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/doctor-who-missing-episodes-seven-2839102
Gallifrey Base has shut down discussion of this and other missing episode rumours over the last ten days - last time this happened The Enemy of the World and The Web of Fear surfaced. Interesting times ahead.
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Older, bearded (but no wiser)
Posts: 477 | From: Brexit's frontline | Registered: Jan 2005
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
The Valeyard got mentioned in 'The Name of the Doctor' (ie the last episode before this one) so I don't think they've forgotten about him.
I'm largely of the school that the only canonical Colin Baker stories are on audio.
The new series can invent a character called the Valeyard if they wish. They can even give him some backstory in some unrecorded adventure with the Sixth Doctor. It doesn't mean we saw it happening on screen.
Personally, I have always taken the description of the Valeyard as an "amalgamation" of all that is evil in the Doctor literally: he is not a regeneration of the Doctor, but a separate distillation of the Doctor's darker side. I view him as being a Block Transfer Calculation, such as populated Castrovalva, but a BTC that has been embued with the knowledge and darker aspects of the Doctor's personality.
Or, in short, he is just a computer program with delusions of grandeur.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
Why there needed to be a mystery about who he regenerated into is beyond me, other than that Chris Eccleston and the production team had a fall-out and he didn't want to work with them and therefore be in the episode.
Eccleston has repeatedly said that he doesn't want to appear in Doctor Who again. He says that he doesn't like to reprise parts.
I've just finished reading Liz Sladen's autobiography. She says Eccleston knew he was leaving when the first episodes etc started broadcasting but it wasn't announced until much later. The implication is he only ever signed up for one season. Makes sense - do the reboot with a big name, get it established and then regenerate and off you go ... Tennant wouldn't have worked as the first brand new doctor as he wasn't well known enough. But he was prefect for taking the show to the next level once it was up and running.
It's a shame Eccleston didn't do the episode, but it seems completely in character. Moffat says they asked him, they'd have loved him to do it, but he refused very nicely. He's never, to my knowledge, done multiple seasons of anything where he's a regular cast member week in, week out. And he's probably sick of being asked about Who. Sounds dull, but maybe it is ...
Tubbs
[ 02. December 2013, 19:39: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69
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Posted
Memory says that Ecclestone's departure was announced the week after the first episode was aired, i.e. between Rose and The End of the World. There was a marked drop in the audience between episodes 1 and 2, which the BBC put down to better weather on the second Saturday but some commentators blamed on the announcement. They also announced that series 2 was being commissioned, just before announcing his departure.
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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor
At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken
Posts: 2696 | From: my desk (if I can find the keyboard under this mess) | Registered: May 2001
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