|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Circus: The Dungeon Master's Guild: constructing a Ship- friendly RPG
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
The post - mortum of the last Mafia game lead to a discussion of forming a more team- based roleplaying game.
This thread is not intended for starting that game, but for nailing down some rules and procedures that would make game play feasible.
One wish or mine is that we come up with something like GORPS-- that is, a set of rules that can be easily modified to any game setting. Sci-fi, medieval, WWI, whatever.
One concern of mine is how to introduce a genuinely random element that can be verified by the players. All kinds if kooky ideas pop into my head-- maybe we can use published NASDEQ quotes? Temperatures?
Or would it be easiest to leave the random elements to the GMs, have them do the PC characters stat rolls for them? Aren't some game modules run like this?
[ 30. December 2014, 01:06: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
|
Posted
I think the best would be a public way of rolling dice, agreed on beforehand, because otherwise the GM would have to be super-hyperactive. I sort of expect a GM to have to be hyperactive anyway, but adding more weight to their burden seems very intense to me. But then I've never done this before and have no idea how much dice rolls can be concentrated to a single time or how much it would be a matter of ongoing development.
That's also a general question of mine, I think. How is time calculated? Are there turns? Deadlines? If so, how long would be a reasonable amount of time?
--------------------
"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
For some reason I was imagining a GM team-- probably for that reason, it seems like a bitch to handle alone. Also, my ex and his BFF often ran games together. Just seems to make sense in terms of how spread out we are, time wise.
As for the public dice rolling-- how would that work? I can't come up with an idea myself that can't be easily tweaked. It would be easier to let the players roll their own hits, and invoke the Curse of the Gator to maintain the Honor Code. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ 24. April 2014, 17:07: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
Also ( re reading JFH 's post) whatever rules we come up with should be really sparse and spare. Like, if there is a RPG specifically designed for grade school kids to learn basic roleplaying, that is the rulebook we should be using. I can't think of anything more tedious than sitting and reading post after post that only amount to a detailed recitation of a player's handbook.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
As for the public dice rolling-- how would that work? I can't come up with an idea myself that can't be easily tweaked. It would be easier to let the players roll their own hits, and invoke the Curse of the Gator to maintain the Honor Code.
Lotteries should be hard to tweak. There are some problems including,
Problem 1:
There's a very limited number of 'throws' per week though (depending on how wide you cast your net).
Problem 2:
Converting lottery balls to dice, converting 50 to 6s doesn't go easily. (However can fit rules to situation e.g. have 5 outcomes, or accept a bit of bias)
Problem 3:
You get all the throws at once: I presume the sequences you can realistically plan out are small. But presumably would need some batching anyway to allow for dm to have a life.
Problem 4:
The later throws are influenced by the first
But I'd have thought it good enough for a few dramatic events even if it's not good for much more (though this would be my first real RPG, so not really sure).
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
Well, you can chose any size dice you like really, so 50 would be fine. You have to roll above 25 to succeed on something you are expected to have even chance of succeeding on - etc.
Your ability set gives bonuses to your role, so say you have six key stats - one being dexterity. You are really dextrous so you get +3 to your dex role. You want to do a handstand, GM declares you must get 30 on the first ball of the wed night lottery, they draw 27 you add your bonus and do your handstand.
This site would give 5 rolls per day - http://www.calottery.com/play/draw-games/fantasy-5
So five players could do one major action. Alternatively each player could have an allocated lottery site with a daily draw - then could have up to five actions each.
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
|
Posted
This is a pretty simple system; it's open source (obviously).
--------------------
we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
|
Posted
Or given the problems with dice, we could use a card deck.
Four statistics: Strength, Dexterity, Mind, Charisma. Range: roughly 1-10.
Four virtues: patience, empathy, willpower, Creativity. Range: roughly 0-4.
The GM deals everybody a hand (I think five cards is right).
All 'rolls' take the form of relevant stat, plus possible skill bonus, plus one card from your hand (you choose aces low).
When you use up your hand you get another.
If you're hurt or tired the size of your hand is reduced by one. (When it's down to 0 you're knocked out. Whether this kills you depends on circumstances.)
Each task has one relevant virtue. Patience is Clubs, Willpower Spades, Empathy Hearts, Creativity Diamonds. In case of ties, a player who played the appropriate suit wins. In addition, cards of the right suit equal to or less than your relevant virtue are free.
(E.g. if it's a Dexterity and Patience task, and you have a Patience of 3, and you have the 2 of Diamonds and the 7 of Spades in your hand, you can play them both for a total of 9. But you couldn't play the 4 of Diamonds and the 7 of Spades at the same time.)
(Possibly the stats and virtues system is redundant, and we should just have stats?)
--------------------
we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
For online dice rolls, what about a random number generator?
Random.org also does a dice roll, with up to 60 dice.
--------------------
Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
Another option would be using the Amber diceless system.
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
Some others that could be considered can be found here.
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
Boy, did those last two resources intrigue me. I just need to get to a proper keyboard to explain why. For niw-- thanks, DT.
The lotto idea is intriguingly concrete... I actually have played an RPG with a deck of cards, but that carries the same problem as dice-unless the draw is relegated to a non-player, you have to rely on everyone agreeing to resist the temptation to re- draw.
Speaking for myself, the gator curse eould keep me sharply in line.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
Could someone give a small precis of a RPG? It sounds like there are a lot of numeral things, and rolling dice to decide what happens -- like the battles in Risk. Where does the RP come in?
[ 25. April 2014, 00:59: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
You actually get to do some improve acting.
Imagine "risk" with the soldiers bitching about their commanders, writing letters to their spouses, and scouring the local villages for provisions.
People differ on this, but IMO the most entertaining games are less about some battle to be won,but about a quest to be completed-- so that a full spectrum if interaction happens along the way. One scene you might be rolling stats to see if you survive in battle, the next to see if you can successfully eavesdrop on a street conversation regarding missing treasure, the next you roll your lock picking skills to get a comrade out of jail after a drunken punch- up.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
|
Posted
The question I always had about SoF RPG's is fights. I know that under DnD (at least 3.0/3.5 rules, which are the ones I know/follow/will swear on a stack of game manuals are Garl Glittergold's Only True Rules), fights take for-frikkin'-ever, since you have to roll for everything—initiative, roll to hit, roll for damage, roll to evade, saving throws, etc. Given that we're in separate time zones, I don't see that working so well; even if you get a set of attack/damage/etc. rolls done all at once, you're going to have to go around the world in order to make one combat round.
And that's assuming your rogue's in Japan, your fighter in England, and the wizard in the States. Lord help you if your bard's Californian, the ranger French, and sorcerer in Fiji. DnD was not meant for time zones.
That said, a bit of Google-fu reveals we're not the first to try this; I remember the Spiderweb Software forums trying something vaguely RPG'ish before*; and there have to be solutions to this somewhere. This Will Happen.
*Like text- and plot- heave RPG's that will eat away at your life and substitute for a good novel? You owe it to yourself to play one of Jeff Vogel's games. Really. His blog on game design and trying to make it as an indie publisher is worth reading as well.
--------------------
“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
Exactly to all of the above.
The exciting and daunting thing about this conversation is that it feels like whatever we come up with will be a truly unique Ship creation.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
The question I always had about SoF RPG's is fights. I know that under DnD (at least 3.0/3.5 rules, which are the ones I know/follow/will swear on a stack of game manuals are Garl Glittergold's Only True Rules), fights take for-frikkin'-ever, since you have to roll for everything—initiative, roll to hit, roll for damage, roll to evade, saving throws, etc. Given that we're in separate time zones, I don't see that working so well; even if you get a set of attack/damage/etc. rolls done all at once, you're going to have to go around the world in order to make one combat round.
Maybe we can make a "Gordian Knot" rule that, if players cannot contribute to active game play within a certain time frame, the GM (s) have the option of deciding the action to move things along.
Kind of like in a real RPGs when one of the party gets stuck in the bathroom and you make his character pass out for that round or something.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
|
Posted
To cite Jeff Vogel, any game system that can't be understood by someone's significant other on their first night playing the game after they've had two beers is too complicated. Any more complicated than that, and you're no longer playing a game, you're looking things up in rulebooks.
--------------------
“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
Brilliantly put.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
|
Posted
Like I said, there's a reason I like the man's games.
--------------------
“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Could someone give a small precis of a RPG? It sounds like there are a lot of numeral things, and rolling dice to decide what happens -- like the battles in Risk. Where does the RP come in?
It is a sort of communal story telling really. Typically you have a gamesmaster, and a group of players. The GM has an overarching plot for the players, and acts any people they meet. The players each have a character with specific knowledge and abilities, and the group of players will be told they have some sort of mission.
For example, your mayor has offered a bounty to anyone who can get rid of the dragon in them there hills - the six of you have volunteered. You meet in the town inn to discuss your next move.
Then players describe what they are doing and why:
Tarick goes to the bar for another round, he is not much interested in the details of the fight Cedric is outlining with chainmail nets and such - he comes back saying - there isn't really a dragon you know. They don't exist, our best bet is to hide in the forest and see if we can spot the arsonist in action.
(Other players chip in thinking this a great idea, and start discussing whether you deliver the arsonist to the town but make the mayor look dumb - and does he therefore weasel out of giving the bounty - or do you beat the arsonist to a pulp and then fake evidence of your victory over the dragon.)
Meanwhile, the GM is having a minor panic attack because they have planned a traditional dragon slaying and have all the materials planned etc. Now they have to decide whether to stick to their guns, and have the players lie in wait and see the dragon afterall or follow the player's invention and improvise. They might make Tarick make an ideas roll, to see if he thinks of this, or a persuasion roll to see if the others agree with him.
Say they are persuaded so the GM thinks - stuff it they can have the arsonist then - perhaps I'll use my dragon material later when they try to pull this again in another town and find there really is a dragon.
Lying in wait they may need to roll for perception to see if they see the arsonist sneaking past them, or sneaking up behind them with the moonlight faintly glinting off the blade as he raises his knife ...
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
|
Posted
I think I think Doublethink just involuntarily volunteered for GM. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
(Not really, mostly just brilliant depiction, writing and more, getting me, a beginner to non-video games RPGs, really, really excited.)
--------------------
"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I actually have played an RPG with a deck of cards, but that carries the same problem as dice-unless the draw is relegated to a non-player, you have to rely on everyone agreeing to resist the temptation to re- draw.
A non-player or the GM. Or if you don't have a GM give one player the right to draw cards and make them publicise it.
--------------------
we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
The question I always had about SoF RPG's is fights. I know that under DnD (at least 3.0/3.5 rules, which are the ones I know/follow/will swear on a stack of game manuals are Garl Glittergold's Only True Rules)
Heretic.
quote:
fights take for-frikkin'-ever, since you have to roll for everything—initiative, roll to hit, roll for damage, roll to evade, saving throws, etc. Given that we're in separate time zones, I don't see that working so well; even if you get a set of attack/damage/etc. rolls done all at once, you're going to have to go around the world in order to make one combat round.
My suggested format to deal with that: the game should run as one or more fairly limited scope missions ("Rescue the governor's daughter from the pirate's lair", "Abduct the billionaire recluse from the penthouse apartment he hasn't left in a decade", "Assassinate Grafinn Ekatarina Eliabulon before she can return to the Pavian Wrik and infect the Wriksgraf with a psychic parasite"...). The opener is planning - all the logistical, ethical and stylistic details get discussed at that point and all players contribute as and when they want. We aren't in 'bullet time' at this stage, so time zones don't matter.
Then the mission runs, at least initially, according to the plan we just formulated. All players wanting to take part submit their orders - open or in secret - and the GM calls the results, which is to say, he calls for player descriptions of activity, and then announces when something unexpected or wrong happens. So if Sneaky Sam the rogue is assigned the task of dispatching a sentry, the GM doesn't need to run a round of D&D combat for that, if everything goes according to plan; he can just say "Sam whistles to confirm that the alley-way is now clear, then wipes the blood off his knife". On the other hand if a squad of heavily armed tax collectors in reflec armour happen to be unexpectedly patrolling the spaceport as the party tries to hijack a ship, then the GM will call for actions, or a fresh planning session, as appropriate.
For that to work, PCs should have a certain assumed minimum of competence: they should be able to run, climb, swim, drive, shoot, fight, orate, and bluff sufficiently well that it makes sense to say "I do that, then..." with some expectation that simple tasks will succeed. The game system should be more like Traveller* than Call of Cthulhu, in that characters should have a small number of skill points to mark the areas in which they really excel, rather than detailed percentages for thirty or so different accomplishments.
(*It should not be like Traveller in any other respect since that was a system in which PCs could, and frequently did, die in the process of character generation, perhaps the most stupid rule ever to (dis)grace an RPG).
--------------------
"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I actually have played an RPG with a deck of cards, but that carries the same problem as dice-unless the draw is relegated to a non-player, you have to rely on everyone agreeing to resist the temptation to re- draw.
A non-player or the GM. Or if you don't have a GM give one player the right to draw cards and make them publicise it.
The more i think about that idea, the more I like it. A non player pulling the cards-maybe give them a light NPC role so the can have some fun with it.
Someone up there warned against dumping too much on the GM, so the idea of creating a separate draw position gets my vote. Maybe even a couple such positions to address time zone issues.
Doublethink, love your précis. Especially your take on the GM experience.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
Actually, thinking about it - how comfortable is everyone with the idea of a simple "honor code", and everyone calling their own rolls? Because I personally would be willing to try it that way. I presume everyone would be in it to have fun, and not dick each other over.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076
|
Posted
I have to admit I'd just let the players draw their own cards/roll their own numbers. Well, mostly because I'm relatively trusting, but also because I don't see much advantage to cheating. We would all be playing together in the party toward similar goals. If you don't smite the orc, well someone else probably will, and if no one else is able to help you with the orc then the whole party is in trouble, and the DM may step in to make things less likely to slaughter everyone!
Cross-posted with Kelly. Looks like we agree.
[ 25. April 2014, 16:13: Message edited by: Gwai ]
--------------------
A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
Yeah, I realize I probably introduced the whole issue, but
I think I was trying to anticipate potential arguments against online play. If nobody else is bothered, neither am I.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
I'm perfectly happy with honor code for the rolls. In any case, adverse rolls might give more avenue for flights of fancy (thank you Doublethink for the awesome example!).
Do we get to decide who we want to be, or do we get assigned roles in some way, that we then flesh out within broad parameters?
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
Adverse rolls make life fun for everyone .
As to character generation- basically you choose your own character, but in order to add realism and more random chance to the game, a basic character is given a list of abilities and attributes, and you roll to assign a strength level to each one. Again, honor code-- the protocol I was taught was that it's Ok to roll up an entirely new set of stats for a character if you don't like how they came out, but re- rolling separate stats is anathema. (Stats= strength level of abilities/ attributes.
Also, I'd just like to state for the record that I am squeamish about attaching traits and abilities too firmly to race ( basically one of the fundamental motifs of D& D) .
[ 25. April 2014, 18:23: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
Aaack! Everyone go read Eliab's post! It's excellent!
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
I'm wondering what it would be like to engage in this adventure as the Grafiness Katy d'Eliabulon, an upstart who has showed up out of nowhere claiming to be on pilgrimage to pay homage to her relative, the Grafinn Ekaterina, by engaging in as much wickedness and trickery as possible. The real Eliabulons are all horrified by this imposter Katy, who can only provide a warped and inadequate image of the great nefariousness of the inimitable Ekaterina.
Or perhaps I could be a Hophto or an Ottrig, a creature of love and poetry, fond of hugs, waffles, and raisins.
Theodora Ios Bear (Teddy to many, Tibby to her close friends who know her middle name) thinks she doesn't much know what to do with either Dungeons or Dragons and is waiting for the next Good Ship Mafia to sail.
This is fun, dreaming of alternative identities.
[ 25. April 2014, 18:44: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
(How awesome was that Dysfunctional Family system, btw? Send them after the dragon!) ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
I GMd an, um, interesting group of players once.
I would be in favour of a point buy system of character creation, just because it tends to leave you with more balanced characters and players get to get some control over the style of character they want play.
Simple roll system if we go with dice / random over number system - so big shiny gun just adds + x to your stat you don't do a million extra rolls for targetting etc. nice to have critical success (natural maximum roll) and critical fail (0) for story flavour.
Ideally we want to pinch a mechanic wholesale - I am not convinced D&D is the best to go for.
Found this on an rpg forum:
quote:
I'm not sure if I ever saw this basic mechanic in a game or it just came up with a circle of friends BSing.
1) your attributes (strength, dex, int, etc.) are with a die. You go through the progression of d3, d4, d6, d8, d10, and d12.
2) your skills are a number and paired with an attribute. So, Guns skill would pair with dex. Your Dex being d8, and your guns being 3, you roll 3d8 for a guns roll.
3) Common sense role. If you take a max roll of a skill (24 for the guns roll above), and divide by 2. You succeed at any guns-related task with a target number of less than half max (11 or below; 12 or higher needs a roll in the example above). Insanely easy tasks shooting at point blank range with a dextrous character are covered. But to shoot a sniper rifle from 2 miles away in a crosswind is still going to be nigh on impossible. It also gives a sense of realism in that 1 character may be really good at guns, but another can't hit the broad side of a barn... but boy can he drive/program/cast-spells/whatever.
So GM would set the target difficulty for any task requiring a roll. Would be adaptable across any mythos quite easily.
Initiative is useful for turn based combat, but should be a stat not a role. Then you have everyone state their action in reverse order. So slowest says their action first, which means quicker people are able to respond to having seen what they are going to do and bear that in mind in planning their action - ie initiative giving real advantage. Then actions happen in in initiative order.
So, characters a, b and c - a fastest so:
GM: right a is fastest, then b, then c - c make your combat plan post, then b then a.
C (enemy character played by GM): I draw my gun and fire at A
B: I see C go for his gun, he is staring at A, I dive sideways under the table.
A: I see C go for his gun, I doubt B will help so I grab the whiskey bottle and smash C on the shoulder before. He can draw.
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
I GMd an, um, interesting group of players once.
I would be in favour of a point buy system of character creation, just because it tends to leave you with more balanced characters and players get to get some control over the style of character they want play.
Simple roll system if we go with dice / random over number system - so big shiny gun just adds + x to your stat you don't do a million extra rolls for targetting etc. nice to have critical success (natural maximum roll) and critical fail (0) for story flavour.
Ideally we want to pinch a mechanic wholesale - I am not convinced D&D is the best to go for.
I'm getting the same feeling. In the back of my mind I was wondering about a point-- buy system-- is that where you are given a standard set of stat points to start, and you create your character by arranging them to your liking?
is that also where you can buy stat points by giving yourself weaknesses? (I think World Of Darkness works that way.)
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
Yup, so say every stat is 10, you get another 10 to play with - you can take away, say, a maximum of 4 from any stat and add a maximum of 8 to any stat.
If you used the system I quoted, you would pick your comparative strengths and weakness by the size of dice.
So you have a d4, d6, d8, d10, d12 & d20 and pick which stat has which dice. By slinging a d20 in there, you encourage every character to have a clear strength.
(Handy roller for quoted system here http://rpg.norwinter.com )
[ 25. April 2014, 20:12: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I actually have played an RPG with a deck of cards
[tangent] My gaming group came up with an RPG system to play when all we had was a set of poker dice.
Every character had 10 skill points to spend on anything. Any task had a set difficult - "Ace High" for trivial, "Pair" for easy, "Three of a kind" for moderate, "pat hand" for hard. Every relevant skill point was one re-roll of any number of dice. Contested actions, like combat, had all participants roll, and best hand wins. It worked extremely well for a system invented in less time than it took to explain.
--------------------
"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
Poker dice definitely better than cards themselves, shuffling well is just hard ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
I can just barely follow Doublethink's #1 and #2. #3 gives me a headache. And what's up with the rotating through various sides of dice? OK for setup, but as an ongoing thing I don't want to have to be remembering how many sides of a dice I should be rolling for each particular thing.
Eliab's Poker Dice solution sounds elegant and I can understand it. Not necessarily that that's what we'll follow. I'm just trying to illustrate what I'm having an easy time understanding, vs. what leaves me feeling like it's more numbers than I care to deal with.
I'm a complete D'n'D neophyte though. Maybe this is easier than it sounds once it's under way.
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
I'm a complete D'n'D neophyte though. Maybe this is easier than it sounds once it's under way.
Long story short, no, no it's not. It's an advantage of computer-based RPG's—no need to sort out how many of what kind of dice you need to model each kind of encounter, no constant references to your over-erased and corrected character sheet, no stacks of fifteen rulebooks covering each possible contingency except for the one that just came up—and a problem with more recent tabletop games that try to imitate the computer versions.
I'm all in favor of going simpler here, although I'm sure that neither me nor my very friendly local game store would mind an excuse for me to buy more dice.
Put me down as another fan of point-bid character setup; I've never much liked the dice-roll luck version, although a "you get sixty points to spend across these stats and skills, some of which may cost more than others" version might work too.
--------------------
“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
Put me down as another fan of point-bid character setup; I've never much liked the dice-roll luck version, although a "you get sixty points to spend across these stats and skills, some of which may cost more than others" version might work too.
That last is actually what I thought I was describing as Point-buying. What nuance am I missing?
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
I can just barely follow Doublethink's #1 and #2. #3 gives me a headache. And what's up with the rotating through various sides of dice? OK for setup, but as an ongoing thing I don't want to have to be remembering how many sides of a dice I should be rolling for each particular thing.
From what I understand from computer based ones (and the games I played tended to mask the underlying mechanics quite well) (also from DarthsAndDroids).
The dice combinations gave 'interesting' subtle variations. And some rock-paper-sissor-pebble situations naturally occur. Which give you a buzz when you play them right or are lucky or otherwise develop. *
However I'd be in favour of something very simple. I'm pretty sure the 'simple' solution gets more complicated in the long run, but I think that that long run is more than we'll be going for?
*which is in a sense the point of the dice, to give your choices an actual effect.
[ 25. April 2014, 22:44: Message edited by: Jay-Emm ]
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
It think a very simple system would work fine if we give huge latitude to the GM to craft game play in ways that move the action along,and we agree to not bitch about it.
Or we can make a seperate "bitching about GM calls" thread to prevent game disruption.
[ 25. April 2014, 22:59: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
Point buying, you have a set of points you distribute across a set of stats usually about six.
A point bid system, as in Amber, you bid against each other to be the best at some stat.
So five players, five levels of each stat. You can be useless, weak, ok, good or excellent at, say, strength - each player has 100 points. You A can bid 10 for strenth, the next player B might bid 9, the next C 15, D thinks - oh no you don't I am so going to be the fighter and bids 20, E thinks I am not getting into this, I am going to hold out for intelligence and bids 1.
So E gets useless strength, B gets weak strength, A gets OK strength, C gets good strength and D gets excellent strength.
Then you go on to bid for the next stat, intelligence say, but D now only has 80 points left to bid with and five stats to bid for, whilst E has useless strength but can afford to maybe bid as much as 30 to get excellent intelligence.
Its advantage over point buying is basically about making you prioritise, instead of fiddling around for ages trying to get the best of all things.
(I hope that's clear ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif) )
[ 25. April 2014, 23:02: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
Hmmm... I think i prefer point buying, then. At least to begin with. Gives the players more of a chance to create a workable character.
( yes, it was clear, and thank you. I'm so glad you joined this discussion!)
[ 25. April 2014, 23:05: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
Really simple would be:
You rank useless, weak, ok, good or excellent in each stat (less numbery) and anything you try to do will be either ridiculously easy (you only fail if you roll a 0), easy (roll over 5 on a D20) need effort (roll over 10) is hard (roll over 15) or ridiculously hard (must roll a natural 20).
GM tells you how hard a thing is based on your skill in the relevant stat.
(You would use a point buy or bid system to get your stat level.)
You would only need to roll one die for anything, and magic objects or weapons would just add a set bonus e.g. +1 to your roll.
Initiative would be a stat, not rolled every time.
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Really simple would be:
You rank useless, weak, ok, good or excellent in each stat (less numbery) and anything you try to do will be either ridiculously easy (you only fail if you roll a 0), easy (roll over 5 on a D20) need effort (roll over 10) is hard (roll over 15) or ridiculously hard (must roll a natural 20).
GM tells you how hard a thing is based on your skill in the relevant stat.
(You would use a point buy or bid system to get your stat level.)
You would only need to roll one die for anything, and magic objects or weapons would just add a set bonus e.g. +1 to your roll.
Initiative would be a stat, not rolled every time.
Very frustrating-- one of the most fun games I ever played was a demo at a con that ran pretty much just as you are describing. AND I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME.
It was a game aimed at kids, though, so that connection just strengthen my resolve to spend some time researching junior rpg systems this weekend.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
Of course, the interesting bit is what stats to have. Traditionally you've got something along the lines of:
- Strength / hit points (simplest to make hit points = strength)
- Dexterity
- Intelligence
- Charisma / Charm
- Wisdom
- Constitution
Some other systems here: http://tinyurl.com/mvun6vj
There is no reason why we couldn't have Geekery, Sex Appeal, Soul, Speed, Good Luck & Muscles.
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
Ha!
The kid game had really stripped down stat categories-- I think it was thinking, moving, doing, something like that-- stuff that could be applied (sometimes in combination) in a variety of ways.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view
