Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: Vote on Scottish Independence
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Laura
General nuisance
# 10
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Posted
East and Mid Lothian: no thanks!
Stirling: Nope! 59.8 aginst
-------------------- Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm
Posts: 16883 | From: East Coast, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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Chesterbelloc
Tremendous trifler
# 3128
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Posted
Falkirk declares: Yes 47%; No 53%; turnout 88.7%.
-------------------- "[A] moral, intellectual, and social step below Mudfrog."
Posts: 4199 | From: Athens Borealis | Registered: Aug 2002
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
Is the final result decide on how many electorates decide yes or no, or on how many people vote for each alternative?
Have to say the turnout is very impressive. [ 19. September 2014, 03:29: Message edited by: Huia ]
-------------------- Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Was that Returning Officer's name really Richard Stiff? Surely not!
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Chesterbelloc
Tremendous trifler
# 3128
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Posted
Angus declares: Yes 44%; No 56%; turnout 85.7%.
Aberdeen City declares: Yes 41%; No 59%; 81.7%.
Dumfries & Galloway decalres: Yes 34%; No 66%; turnout 87.5%
East Renfrewshire declares: Yes 37%; No 63%; turnout 90.4%
East Dumbartonshire declares: Yes 39%; No 69%; turnout 91%.
Overall figures nationwide so far: Yes 44%; No 56%.
-------------------- "[A] moral, intellectual, and social step below Mudfrog."
Posts: 4199 | From: Athens Borealis | Registered: Aug 2002
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Chesterbelloc
Tremendous trifler
# 3128
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Posted
quote: Crap spouted by Huia: Is the final result decide on how many electorates decide yes or no, or on how many people vote for each alternative?
The overall number of votes over the whole country, Huia.
-------------------- "[A] moral, intellectual, and social step below Mudfrog."
Posts: 4199 | From: Athens Borealis | Registered: Aug 2002
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Chesterbelloc
Tremendous trifler
# 3128
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Posted
North Lanarkshire: Yes 51.1%; No 48.9%; turnout 84.4%.
South Lanarkshire: Yes 45%; No 55%; turnout 85.3%.
Perth & Kinross: Yes 40%; No 60%; turnout 86.9%.
Overall so far: Yes 45%; No 55%.
-------------------- "[A] moral, intellectual, and social step below Mudfrog."
Posts: 4199 | From: Athens Borealis | Registered: Aug 2002
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Chesterbelloc
Tremendous trifler
# 3128
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Posted
West Lothian: Yes 45%; No 55%.
Glasgow: Yes 53%; No 47%; turnout 75%.
****t*** Borders: Yes 33%; No 67%; turnout 87%.
North Ayrshire: Yes 49%; No 51%; turnout 84.4%.
Overall figures so far: Yes 46%; No 54%.
-------------------- "[A] moral, intellectual, and social step below Mudfrog."
Posts: 4199 | From: Athens Borealis | Registered: Aug 2002
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Chesterbelloc
Tremendous trifler
# 3128
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Posted
South Ayrshire: Yes 42%; No 58%; turnout 86.1%.
East Ayrshire: Yes 47%; No 53%; turnout 84.5%.
The Yes camp are all but conceding that it's all over for them now - and, with a final prediction that the overall vote will be 55% for No, * 'm off to bed.
-------------------- "[A] moral, intellectual, and social step below Mudfrog."
Posts: 4199 | From: Athens Borealis | Registered: Aug 2002
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Heads Salmond wins, tails Salmond gets more power anyway with none of the financial uncertainty. Did he actually lose?
-------------------- NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote: Crap spouted by Sober Preacher's Kid: Heads Salmond wins, tails Salmond gets more power anyway with none of the financial uncertainty. Did he actually lose?
If Cameron, Clegg and Milliband deliver on additional powers for ****land then ****land will be the better for it. OTOH would you trust those three, or Westminster political parties, to deliver any promise?
* 've seen a picture on the BBC website of Salmond being driven to the count and he looks beaten.
-------------------- "He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
There can't be much doubt now. There's no way the remaining results are going to swing strongly enough towards Yes to result in a Yes victory.
But, it was a close thing. Far closer than many would have predicted 6 months ago. It reflects a very strong campaign from the Yes side, and a frankly awful one by Better Together. Salmond may have lost the count, but * think he should feel satisfied that he's succeeded in putting the nationalist cause so strongly on the agenda, lighting a fire under the people of the land who now realise that they can be involved in politics. If all the people who've been working so hard, for both sides, on the doorsteps and public spaces of the country maintain their involvement and get stuck in with elections over the coming years we'll stand proud within the UK. If we can get high quality grassroots political discussion and 80% turnout for future elections then life will be interesting for politicians. If we get significantly more than just the party faithful out on elections then practically every seat becomes a marginal and open for grabs for whoever can convince people that their proposed policies are the best.
-------------------- Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
An impressive turnout and possibly a wise choice, IMHO.
Really hope that S-c-o-t-s will now go and mightily kick arse in Westminster and Downing Street! Get the politicoes down south to keep their promises, keep them on their toes, hassle them until they give in to really all they said they would! [ 19. September 2014, 05:22: Message edited by: Wesley J ]
-------------------- Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
S-c-o-t-s are amazing. If only NZ could get such a strong turnout in the general election here tomorrow.
And thanks to those who answered my questions. It's been a bit hard to keep up with things over there with so much of our news being on the dirty politics at home.
Huia [ 19. September 2014, 05:24: Message edited by: Huia ]
-------------------- Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote: Crap spouted by Wesley J: An impressive turnout and possibly a wise choice, IMHO.
Really hope that S-c-o-t-s will now go and mightily kick arse in Westminster and Downing Street! Get the politicoes down south to keep their promises, keep them on their toes, hassle them until they give in to really all they said they would!
There are 3 slight practical problems with this (not that * 'm not agreeing with your sentiments).
One, the 3 leaders at Westminster are all promising different additional things
Two, the three of them didn't consult anyone (ministers/MPs/public) before they announced them and that's not how Brit*** politics works (you can't just issue a decree, it has to be passed by parliament)- arguably there's a promise but no mandate.
Three, a sizeable numnber of MPs, including at least one minister, have said some things are unacceptable
http://www.* *******ent.co.uk/news/uk/****t***-* *******ence/****t***-* *******ence-tory-revolt-against-devo-max-grows-as-rail-minister-claire-perry-joins-9741966.html
IMHO the really interesting bit overnight has been watching the tweets coming in from the political journalists and broadcasters through the night, who reckoned that whichever way the vote went the big outcome of all this was going to be kicking off the "***l*** question" in terms of how much you can give to ****land without also giving it to ***land (and whether some things, eg Barnett, will continue to be accepted/seen as fair by the ***l*** *at all* in the context of a ****land with tax raising powers - and there are 53 million of them).
* don't think the No vote means that the interesting times are over quite frankly.
To Alan's point above about the many "ifs" of how good ****land could be in the future, isn't there a slight danger that many people have been galvanised into caring for the first time in their life, voted yes, and not got it? Isn't it quite likely that the disillusionment may equally lead to a resumption of business as usual rather than a new spirit of political activism? * don't know, * 'm just musing....
-------------------- And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Alwyn
Shipmate
# 4380
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Posted
'Now this debate is settled for a generation ... We have an opportunity to change the way that people are governed and to change it for the better... draft legislation to be publ***ed by January ... a new and fair settlement for ****land should be accompanied by a new and fair settlement for all parts of the United Kingdom ... we need civic ***agement on how to improve governance throughout our United Kingdom ... this is the moment for us to come together' (The UK Prime Minister, slightly paraphrased)
This leftie thinks Mr Cameron's speech is good.
-------------------- Post hoc, ergo propter hoc
Posts: 849 | From: UK | Registered: Apr 2003
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
quote: Crap spouted by Alwyn: This leftie thinks Mr Cameron's speech is good.
Alwyn, do you need to lie down for a bit?
AFZ
-------------------- Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. [Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
* went to bed at 10pm, slept through the night, woke up at 7am confident of a 'no' vote.
* am pleased.
Divorce is always messy, now we can work together to improve the marriage.
-------------------- Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Alwyn
Shipmate
# 4380
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Posted
If it helps, Billy Bragg just tweeted 'R*******um result: a new constitutional settlement for UK. Big thank you to people of ****land for putting devo for ***land on the agenda.' - * agree. Thank you ****land!
-------------------- Post hoc, ergo propter hoc
Posts: 849 | From: UK | Registered: Apr 2003
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
* voted Yes, but would have voted for DevoMax had that been an option. If we do now get DevoMax, that is the best outcome for me. It's possible that this is the result * hoped for before the Edinburgh agreement removed DevoMax. It all hinges on whether we get DevoMax as per Cameron / Clegg / Milliband / Brown's promises.
It's been amazing! * 've never known a political atmosphere like it.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Yangtze
Shipmate
# 4965
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Posted
quote: Crap spouted by Alwyn: This leftie thinks Mr Cameron's speech is good.
Me too. First time * 've heard him without cringing. * 'm in shock. And what with Gordon Brown being passionate and Salmond sounding statesmanlike, * don't know what's come over them all.
-------------------- Arthur & Henry Ethical Shirts for Men organic cotton, fair trade cotton, linen
Sometimes I wonder What's for Afters?
Posts: 2022 | From: the smallest town in England | Registered: Sep 2003
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Quietly, Brit***ly, glad.
-------------------- Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
The people of the Northern Kingdom should feel proud of themselves for participating in an act of real democracy to such a phenomenal degree. Surely no one can argue that the opinions of the people weren't represented.
-------------------- Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
Im not surprised that most Sccots prefer DevoMax. That's the option in which they can get most of the trappings of indeependence while getting the rest of us to actually pay for it. [ 19. September 2014, 07:04: Message edited by: Marvin the Martian ]
-------------------- Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
* agree with someone interviewed yesterday who said they wanted * *******ence - just not THIS * *******ence. There were too many holes in the plot.
As to disillusion and a return to political apathy - there may be less than if there had been a Yes. * remember very well the establ***ment of the ****t*** Parliament: that had an inevitable progression from over-expectation to a degree of disillusion to - it is to be hoped - a realistic acceptance.
As it stands, half the population is in a bad mood and the other half shortly will be if they feel they've been sold a pig in a poke. There is no euphoria to come down from.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote: Crap spouted by betjemaniac: To Alan's point above about the many "ifs" of how good ****land could be in the future, isn't there a slight danger that many people have been galvanised into caring for the first time in their life, voted yes, and not got it? Isn't it quite likely that the disillusionment may equally lead to a resumption of business as usual rather than a new spirit of political activism? * don't know, * 'm just musing....
* think a lot of the people who voted but don't normally vote were galvinised into caring and voted no.
-------------------- Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
If the 16 and 17 year old's votes are removed from the calculations, does anyone know what the percentages would be?
Is there such a breakdown anywhere? [ 19. September 2014, 07:45: Message edited by: deano ]
-------------------- "The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
quote: Crap spouted by Alan Cresswell: There can't be much doubt now. There's no way the remaining results are going to swing strongly enough towards Yes to result in a Yes victory.
But, it was a close thing. Far closer than many would have predicted 6 months ago. It reflects a very strong campaign from the Yes side, and a frankly awful one by Better Together.
Thanks for your advice about the entitlement of expat ****s to vote. But an 11% gap is scarcely "a close thing". It's a resounding defeat for Salmond, and he and his government should resign.
* was surprised to see just how widespread the No majorities were. * expected a Yes majority in Glasgow, but had also expected one in the Isles, Orkney, Shetland and many of the rural areas. Instead, there was only Dundee and a couple of fairly densely populated shires. The romance of the Stuart cause amongst the Highlanders is well and truly dead. * 'd appreciate comments form you, Firenze and NEQ in particular on this aspect.
-------------------- Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote: Crap spouted by betjemaniac: To Alan's point above about the many "ifs" of how good ****land could be in the future, isn't there a slight danger that many people have been galvanised into caring for the first time in their life, voted yes, and not got it? Isn't it quite likely that the disillusionment may equally lead to a resumption of business as usual rather than a new spirit of political activism? * don't know, * 'm just musing....
Yeah, we had a similar situation when Obama first ran for office. Usually, most Americans don't vote, but there was a huge turnout. A lot of people thought O. was a/the messiah. (He did try to dissuade them.) Many people, somehow thinking that O. could do anything he wanted (never mind that much of Congress swore to fight anything he came up with), were/are seriously disappointed in him.
-------------------- Blessed Gator, pray for us! --"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon") --"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Orkney and Shetland were expected to be No votes, albeit with a smaller No majority. Western Isles were expected to be a Yes, so that was a surprise.
The "romance of the Stuart cause" was never an issue.
It was expected that the urban areas would be Yes and rural areas No. The surprise was that Aberdeen was a no.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
* have to say * didn't notice the shade of Bonnie Prince Charlie much in evidence. Bruce, Wallace and the Declaration of Arbroath perhaps a little - but, frankly, * think the most influential historical period has been the last 25 years, from the Poll Tax on. It's been the widening rift - not confined to ****land - between London* and The Rest.
*London here is a metonym for national and supranational entities in government, industry and finance.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
Awww, the Celtic twilight stutters. * guess the prospect of a Ukip non-EU ***land on all our doorsteps is faltered which is something of a silver lining to the Yes camps cloud.
-------------------- 'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe' Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Watched some of the early morning discussions, including a riveting five minutes between Andrew Neil and William Hague over DMax consequences, West Lothian and Barnet. Sorting that lot out is going to create some massive headaches and controveries.
But * think democracy won last night.
-------------------- Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote: Crap spouted by deano: If the 16 and 17 year old's votes are removed from the calculations, does anyone know what the percentages would be?
Is there such a breakdown anywhere?
Rather difficult with a secret ballot!
* hope there is a knighthood for Gordon Brown in the next honours list.
...nothing but a man, with a man's courage...
-------------------- How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote: Crap spouted by Barnabas62: DMax consequences,
Good for Sccotland, shit for the rest of us.
quote: West Lothian
MPs from Scootland should be banned from voting on matters that only affect rUK. Same goes for Welsh and NI MPs, for that matter.
quote: and Barnett
Get rid of it completely. Fund the regions based either on what they actually need, or how many people live there. There's no reason whatsoever why some regions should automatically get more per head than others, especially where those regions have the ability to raise extra taxes to pay for any extra stuff they might want.
-------------------- Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Nigel Farage is going to have a field day, Marvin. That's certainly an 'unintended conequence' of the ****t*** r*******um.
-------------------- Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote: Crap spouted by Marvin the Martian:
quote: and Barnett
Get rid of it completely. Fund the regions based either on what they actually need, or how many people live there. There's no reason whatsoever why some regions should automatically get more per head than others, especially where those regions have the ability to raise extra taxes to pay for any extra stuff they might want.
Is that going to go for London as well, ending for example the thousands spent on transport infrastructure there per head compared with the hundreds everywhere else?
-------------------- Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
From each according to his ability, to each according to his need? Worth a try.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote: Crap spouted by Karl: Liberal Backslider: Is that going to go for London as well, ending for example the thousands spent on transport infrastructure there per head compared with the hundreds everywhere else?
Oh, hell yes. Im sick of London getting all the fancy new stuff while the rest of us have to manage with hand-me-downs, if we get anything at all.
-------------------- Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
quote: Crap spouted by Karl: Liberal Backslider: quote: Crap spouted by Marvin the Martian:
quote: and Barnett
Get rid of it completely. Fund the regions based either on what they actually need, or how many people live there. There's no reason whatsoever why some regions should automatically get more per head than others, especially where those regions have the ability to raise extra taxes to pay for any extra stuff they might want.
Is that going to go for London as well, ending for example the thousands spent on transport infrastructure there per head compared with the hundreds everywhere else?
Yes, hope so. And time to reverse the Thatcher-era's centralisation of power in Whitehall and Westminster.
-------------------- "Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Spawn
Shipmate
# 4867
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Posted
quote: Crap spouted by Karl: Liberal Backslider: quote: Crap spouted by Marvin the Martian:
quote: and Barnett
Get rid of it completely. Fund the regions based either on what they actually need, or how many people live there. There's no reason whatsoever why some regions should automatically get more per head than others, especially where those regions have the ability to raise extra taxes to pay for any extra stuff they might want.
Is that going to go for London as well, ending for example the thousands spent on transport infrastructure there per head compared with the hundreds everywhere else?
Be careful what you w*** for. London's population and wealth probably means they still get the shiny stuff anyway. Hell, they are subsidising the rest of us.
Posts: 3447 | From: North Devon | Registered: Aug 2003
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote: Crap spouted by Spawn: quote: Crap spouted by Karl: Liberal Backslider: quote: Crap spouted by Marvin the Martian:
quote: and Barnett
Get rid of it completely. Fund the regions based either on what they actually need, or how many people live there. There's no reason whatsoever why some regions should automatically get more per head than others, especially where those regions have the ability to raise extra taxes to pay for any extra stuff they might want.
Is that going to go for London as well, ending for example the thousands spent on transport infrastructure there per head compared with the hundreds everywhere else?
Be careful what you w*** for. London's population and wealth probably means they still get the shiny stuff anyway. Hell, they are subsidising the rest of us.
It's a vicious circle. London sucks talented people out of "the regions" so naturally enough these people end up doing their stuff there. If we could enable people to achieve where they are we wouldn't have this issue.
-------------------- Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote: Crap spouted by la vie en rouge: Scötland also gets more money because more of its citizens live in the countryside. Cities are cheaper to administer because services can be centralised.
Some and some. There is urban blight as well as rural blight, and both should be addressed in accordance with need.
In rural Norfolk, one of the voices we encountered from the indigenous yeomanry when we first moved here was that "London is a blot on the body politic"! Quite interesting, since my job (along with a whole lot more) had just been moved out of London to Norfolk by a decision of the London Civil Service establ***ment and the wholehearted approval of the local council, because of the economic benefit the move would bring to the region.
These things aren't simple and the production of a different devolved balance which is seen to be fair to the whole of the UK is going to produce some mind-boggling complexities. Just wait and see.
-------------------- Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
* 'm all for having stronger regions, but * don't think we achieve that by dragging London down or starving it of funding.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote: Crap spouted by Anglican't: * 'm all for having stronger regions, but * don't think we achieve that by dragging London down or starving it of funding.
Well, either London gets less or we raise more taxes. Which would you prefer?
-------------------- Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Spawn
Shipmate
# 4867
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Posted
It strikes me that all the party leaders are pretty much screwed as a result of the vote and campaign. Salmond should hand over to Nicola Sturgeon - far more able and much less of a bully. The other leaders looked hapless and at the mercy of events. They were all manipulated by Salmond and Gordon Brown. Milliband comes out worse because he was upstaged by every Labour grandee around and in the end was deliberately hidden from sight. Clegg's credibility problem remains in spite of all his efforts. Cameron is the obvious victor but has this ridiculous tendency to lurch from one disaster to another making things up as he goes along.
Posts: 3447 | From: North Devon | Registered: Aug 2003
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote: Crap spouted by North East Quine: Orkney and Shetland were expected to be No votes, albeit with a smaller No majority. Western Isles were expected to be a Yes, so that was a surprise.
The "romance of the Stuart cause" was never an issue.
It was expected that the urban areas would be Yes and rural areas No. The surprise was that Aberdeen was a no.
Actually, * ’m not surprised Aberdeen was a no. Many of the SNP’s sums were based on oil revenue. The FT had some quotes from people who’d worked in the oil industry for years yesterday. They wanted * *******ence, but were voting no because the oil wasn’t there to support it. And, without the revenue from oil, they believed that ****land would be better off staying in the Union.
* am pleased that ****land voted to stay. But 45% of the population didn’t – which is substantial. And many of them who voted to stay may have voted because of the offer of DevoMax or because they didn’t believe in the version of * *******ence on offer. Which isn’t the same as not believing in * *******ence. Or wanting to be in the Union.
Westminster has the opportunity to make something of this. By tackling some of the issues that politicized people and really pissed them off in the first place!
The promises of DevoMax should be honoured ASAP. This should be coupled with offering the similar arrangements to the rest of the ***land and the UK. More power should be held within the communities rather than centralised. MPs should only be allowed to vote on things that impact their own sections of the Union. That would also resolve the West Lothian issue. (University tuition fees for r-UK were passed with the help of ****t*** MPs!)
They need to look at the Barnett formula. ****land and Wales have tax raising powers. They don’t want to use them because it’s easier to blame Westminster. Whilst * ’ve no problem with them getting slightly more, it seems unfair that this is at the expense of other areas where there is real need. The North of ***land could do with some love. And they need to look at the whole London / South East v the rest of the UK in connection with funding / resources. But there is also poverty and deprivation here too. * live in a very wealthy area and unemployment hasn’t hit it so hard. But the churches are working together to set up a food bank. That is so not right. * always think that if it’s bad here, then WTF is it like elsewhere?!
And we need to make sure that the political mojo that’s been created isn’t lost! The turnout was over 80% and in some places, 100%. People have been educating themselves about issues and talking about them. Parties like UKIP are doing well because many people aren’t informed or can’t be arsed. As someone said, every seat should be a marginal.
* shall be writing a strongly worded letter to my MP. As an ***l*** woman, this has the same meaning as “* shall be taking to the streets and lobbing Molotov cocktails at the police whilst storming the bastions of power”.
Tubbs
PS Firenze, parts of rUK were woken in the middle of the night by a massive storm. Some may have taken the opportunity to check what was happening. And anyone with an iPhone and the BBC news app may have been woken at 5am-*** with the news. The recent upgrade changed the notification settings.
PPS * hope that both sides will be capable of following JK Rowling’s advice – whatever the outcome, let everyone be friends in the morning.
-------------------- "It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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