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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: HEAVEN: All Things Breadish
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Tastes OK - looks do matter though.
[ 26. October 2014, 22:47: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
My electric knife for cutting warm bread straight out of the oven has arrived so I'm running out of excuses for my procrastination.
30 years ago I used to make bread every week - come on WW, get with the action!
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
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What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Try this so easy, so gorgeous.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
Does anyone here have experience of baking bread using kosher salt instead of ordinary salt? A friend is on a (temporary) no-iodine diet and is allowed kosher salt. As my French stick recipe only has flour, water, yeast and salt in it I thought I'd give it a go with kosher salt and give her a loaf.
Am I right in thinking that I need to double the quantity of salt because of the bigger grains, or would I be better grinding it down in a mortar and pestle?
I've posted this on the recipe thread as well, but perhaps someone here can help.
Thanks. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Three answer is: it depends. The designation "kosher", with salt, means only that it contains no iodine. It is generally larger grained, but there is no specified size or shape.
Here is a basic conversion chart, [b]however, read this link for a better understanding. The Morton link is only applicable to the more commercial varieties.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
Thanks, LB - that's very useful. It seems that some more is needed when measuring by volume (and the recipe specifies teaspoons), so I'll adjust it accordingly.
I'll let you know how I get on.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
From experience, salt doesn't matter very much. It controls the yeast to a degree, making the bubbles/crumb more even. I typically use about 50% of the recommended salt, and use sea salt. You can leave it out entirely with limited effect with Canadian flours.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
My experience is that if you forget to put salt in your bread, the crust and usually the top part of the loaf falls back in on itself, as though it has risen and then partially collapsed again.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Piglet and I had quite a few posts when she started baking her own bread. A conclusion I reached then was that Canadian and Aust flours are about both very strong, more so than US and a lot more than standard European flours.
In her great book, Elizabeth David discusses the need for both sugar, to help the yeast grow, and salt, to keep the growth under control. Enoch's collapsed loaves suggest that a loaf with too little salt rises quickly and before the underlying crumb has had a chance properly to form and support the crust. The recipes that No Prophet etc describes are of a different style. That, and the strong flour allow for the proper formation of the dough to support the crust.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
That's correct. Canadian flour doesn't generally result in flying crusts that then collapse unless the bread is over-yeasted or risen too long and/or at higher heats. Piglet is in Nfld, which for better or worse in general is in Canada now, and for better IMHO has the high protein, high gluten flour to work with. Sugar will speed up the rising, but isn't required if you've time.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
The rising/collapsing thing happened to us several times when we were doing the sort of bread that bakes in the bread-machine, and there didn't really seem to be much logic in whether it would collapse or not.
With the French stick recipe, the machine only does the kneading, and so far the results have been splendid; even when I forgot about them and left them in the oven for twice as long as they needed, they were still edible, just a bit crusty.
I don't fancy the idea of bread made with no salt at all - I imagine it would be very bland, and I don't think I'd trust the yeast to behave as it should.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
I did the French sticks with kosher salt, and they came out really well. I almost doubled the quantity; I put twice the stated quantity into a mortar and pestle and ground it down a bit, then used about three-quarters of it. The loaves rose slightly more than usual (no bad thing) and tasted just fine.
I gave one loaf to my friend and she was over the moon; she reckons she'll need another by the next time we see each other (on Wednesday). ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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EloiseA
Shipmate
# 18029
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Posted
I have a newish sourdough starter that is strong and reliable -- yesterday I made a good half-rye bread with molasses, caraway seeds and fennel seeds.
Wondering if anyone has tried a Yule panettone using sourdough?
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“You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd.” Flannery O'Connnor
Posts: 55 | Registered: Mar 2014
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Carex
Shipmate
# 9643
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Posted
I did a fairly elaborate braided sourdough "coffee cake" once. Looked great! Can't tell you how it actually tasted, however, as it was for a bake sale.
Posts: 1425 | Registered: Jun 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
I have a sour dough starter I got going in the last month. I named it "Tim" in honour of my best friend and canoe trip buddy on the 5th year of the anniversary of his death (damn cancer anyway!). I've been putting in cumin seeds and some butter melted in grape seed oil, which is making a rather fine loaf. I also made a focaccia with chopped olives, red pepper flakes, oregano inside and coarse black pepper and salt on top. "Tim", neither the living sour dough, nor the spirit of the man have told me how long I have to keep it going yet. At least, I think until after Christmas.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
... the lack (in winter) of a reliably warm place for proving ...
That was what put us off doing our own for a while, but you can put it in the oven with just the oven-light on, or if you've got an airing-cupboard that would probably work.
I have proved dough on a rack over the laundry tub half-filled with
hot water.
Our once favourite coffee shop had two delicacies that I missed when it morphed into a top restaurant: mille-feuilles, and a small roll that I've tried to reproduce with an enriched dough (butter, lemon juice and vanilla) and mixed cake fruit, with a drizzle of vanilla icing on top. Good, but not as heavenly as I remember it.
I have made mille-feuilles too, but that's another story.
And as a footnote – one minister had breadmakers sending an enticing smell into the church in time for the newly-baked bread to be used for communion. As I washed up afterwards I asked a small boy nearby if they had home baked bread at home, and he said rather wistfully that no, they didn't have a bread-maker. Poor little 21st Century kid.
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Sufficient warmth to prove bread is not much of a problem here, but in summer rather the reverse - bread that rises too quickly, and does not develop sufficient flavour from the yeast.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Beethoven
Ship's deaf genius
# 114
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Posted
To my great delight, Op 2 has decided at the grand old age of 10 to develop her breadmaking skills. The first loaf she produced was eaten up between four of us in a single meal, so I'm hoping she'll do another this weekend... I use my breadmaker and quite often a packet mix; she does it all properly. So far both her loaves have been plain white bread - but shaped in fun ways. Maybe she'll experiment with flavours too at some point.
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Who wants to be a rock anyway?
toujours gai!
Posts: 1309 | From: Here (and occasionally there) | Registered: May 2001
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Ferijen
Shipmate
# 4719
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Posted
Beethoven - i'd recommend the Paul Hollywood baking bread book for a Christmas present. Just to 'encourage' her, you know!
I have just bought myself a stand mixer. So looking forward to all the sloppy enriched doughs that hand kneading didn't help and my food processor (which has a dough hook, but has an unfortunate problem of sending bread dough up under the dough hook and then down into the spin-ney thing) can't do... Any recommendations?
Posts: 3259 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ferijen:
Beethoven - i'd recommend the Paul Hollywood baking bread book for a Christmas present. Just to 'encourage' her, you know!
Seconded. There are some excellent recipes in that book. It's worth working through it as breads you don't recognise are good too.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Beethoven
Ship's deaf genius
# 114
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Posted
Suggestion noted. It would go well with the cream horn moulds that she's desperate for Trying unusual sorts of bread won't be a problem - up until now she's mainly made scandinavian breads with her Granny, so oddly enough making normal white bread was the new bit.
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Who wants to be a rock anyway?
toujours gai!
Posts: 1309 | From: Here (and occasionally there) | Registered: May 2001
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Carex
Shipmate
# 9643
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Posted
I haven't kept a sourdough starter since I was in my 20s, but my wife ordered one for me while she was getting some other cultures. I don't bother with recipes - just add enough flour until the mixture feels right.
First couple of small test batches had good flavo(u)r but were crumbly due to the use of gluten-free flour, especially rice flour. I was making French bread, and they both spread out wide on the sheet due to lack of proper kneading (which makes a mess on our limited kitchen counter space) and the wrong flours. I had actually tried kneading the dough in the bowl, which sort-of worked, but left a lot of flour lumps in the dough.
Then I decided to make sourdough biscuits for the big family New Year's Day dinner. The first test batch came out well, but a bit underdone. Basically you take bread dough, form it into small lumps, roll them in oil (traditionally bacon grease), and cram them together into a baking pan. As they rise they nestle together to make a solid pan of bread that breaks apart easily along the oiled seams. The biscuits are rather irregular in shape, which adds to the interest. (If you want them more uniform, don't crowd them as close together in the pan.) They come out like irregular dinner rolls with a strong sourdough taste, and chewier than more refined products - which suits us well.
I had started the sourdough sponge the afternoon before, stirred it up again first thing in the morning, then carefully timed the last rising in the pan so they would go in the oven when the roast beef came out. Unfortunately the roast beef took an extra hour to come up to temperature, so we had to put the rising biscuits in the cold garage to keep them from over-rising. As it was, they were over the top of the pan, and a couple chunks fell off in the oven, but that is just part of the fun.
I dumped the whole pan into a bread basket, and folks could tear the individual biscuits off the block. They were a big hit, both that afternoon and the next morning for breakfast.
So am I going to cook any more sourdough? Probably not, actually. It appears that my wife is allergic to the culture - her sinuses started running the first evening after I put it up to rise, and again the next day when I was baking them. The final clue was when I reheated a few for breakfast and her symptoms returned! So the starter and most of the remaining biscuits left with my sister-in-law, who enjoys sourdough pancakes. I don't know if the allergic reaction was to the yeast or something else, but will probably limit myself to crackers and quick breads (baking powder / baking soda) for now.
I did, however, find a wonderful book at the library: How Baking Works by Paula Figoni (ISBN 978-0-470-39267-6), which is a food science textbook that explains all the interactions and chemistry of baking. At 500+ pages it isn't exactly light reading, but it certainly appeals to a geek like me, even if I'm not going to be doing as much baking as I thought.
Posts: 1425 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Celtic Knotweed
Shipmate
# 13008
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Posted
Decided to bake a loaf this evening So, it got a good hour for the first rising, then I put it in the tin, left the oven to heat, and forgot about it! So the oven has been heating the flat for some time but the bread only went in when I remembered 20 min ago ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) At least it rose well...
Fresh bread for a late night snack soon!
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Posts: 664 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Sep 2007
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