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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Deano, you are obviously a lot thicker than a thing that is pretty thick.

Penny's 'Kill them all, God will know his own' is clearly meant ironically.

You clearly don't get irony.

In fact, you clearly don't 'get' anything very much.

Dropping a nuclear bomb on ISIS ... like as if that would be possible without killing Yazidis, Christians, Kurds and those Muslims who don't support ISIS.

As if a nuclear bomb could distinguish between the various groups.

'Kill them all, God will know his own,' is a quote attributed, I believe, to Simon de Montfort (not the one over here but the one in France) when the crusaders sent against the Albigensian heretics captured the city of Beziers.

The story goes that as they stormed the gate after the retreating troops and entered the city there was no time to distinguish between the heretics and the Catholics (who had lived peacefully alongside each other for years). So the order went up, 'Kill them all, God will know his own ...'

That's the point Penny is making. Dropping an atomic bomb would kill friend and foe indiscriminately.

Clearly that's what you want to do. You sick bastard.

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
Is there anything that would make you post in plain English using a normal sentence and paragraph structure ?

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Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
I'm conflicted deano. A double-minded man. Unstable in all my ways. A pathetic sinner. Lost. Who shall deliver me from this body of death? I thank the Lord Jesus Christ. How long oh Lord?

I don't believe God ever nuked or ever will nuke anybody.

If I'm wrong, He'll reconcile the irreconcilable.

The trouble is now I cannot live up to the ethics of the Prince of Peace.

For I no longer know what they are.

Note I say ethics.

I know His LAW, love, how is that worked out? With a nuke? With what utilitarian situation ethics?

I don't know any more.

How's that for a result deano?

Is this where faith has to come in?

How?

George is having the same problem I see. So we're in good company.

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Originally posted by Penny S:
Kill them all. God will know his own.

It is not now generally thought that the abbot of Beziers was correct.

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Originally quoted by Gamaliel'Kill them all, God will know his own,' is a quote attributed, I believe, to Simon de Montfort (not the one over here but the one in France) when the crusaders sent against the Albigensian heretics captured the city of Beziers.

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Originally posted by deano:
What would Jesus do? Drop the nuke of course... they are killing Christians!

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He didn't act to stop people killing Himself, so what makes you think that?

You're either trolling us or you're being serious, and either way you're a fucking nutball trying to stoke up tensions and animosity between Christians and Muslims. If you're trolling then it's pretty much garden-variety fuckwittery, but if you're serious then you are frankly worse than ISIS, because at least they take care to ensure that only the people they hate get killed.

I cannot for one moment imagine that you're actually serious though. Dropping a nuke on Iraq to stop people there being persecuted? It's like the police resolving a hostage situation by killing the hostage .

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Originally posted by deano:
Iran wants a nuke for fucks sake!

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Originally posted by deano:


Now, answer the question. How do we get Islamic militants to stop targeting westerners?

Go on, fix it! If you can't I guess this will be the last post on this thread!

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Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:

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Originally posted by deano:


Now, answer the question. How do we get Islamic militants to stop targeting westerners?

Go on, fix it! If you can't I guess this will be the last post on this thread!

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We concentrate our efforts on terrorists and militants, whoever they attack and disregarding the 'Islamic' element, especially as the people most able to help in identifying the terrorists are quite likely to be Islamic themselves. There was an article in Metro, the freebie newspaper, stating that some UK Muslims, including some related to UK nationals who have joined ISIS, want to join the efforts to defeat ISIS. It won't be quick but quick solutions, such as 'Shock and Awe' don't have staying power.

We certainly don't treat every Muslim and Arab as part of some amorphous enemy.

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Originally posted by deano:
Alright so you don't like my solution. Hey ho, what's new, like anyone was ever going to given the serious port-side list to the ship.

So what is the solution. I'll give you another false dichotomy (three actually) to constrain your answers...

1) Israel will continue to exist within her current borders and will continue to exist as a sovereign state within the Levant.

2) There will be no Palestinian state brought into existence in the lands currently occupied by Israel.

3) The "west" will not change policy on oil and will continue to defend their national interests by protecting the security of supply at the current levels. Yes we want the oil and will do whatever needs doing to protect the supply from the middle east.

Now, answer the question. How do we get Islamic militants to stop targeting westerners?

Go on, fix it! If you can't I guess this will be the last post on this thread!

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Originally posted by deano:

quote:

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Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:

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Originally posted by deano:


Now, answer the question. How do we get Islamic militants to stop targeting westerners?

Go on, fix it! If you can't I guess this will be the last post on this thread!

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We concentrate our efforts on terrorists and militants, whoever they attack and disregarding the 'Islamic' element, especially as the people most able to help in identifying the terrorists are quite likely to be Islamic themselves. There was an article in Metro, the freebie newspaper, stating that some UK Muslims, including some related to UK nationals who have joined ISIS, want to join the efforts to defeat ISIS. It won't be quick but quick solutions, such as 'Shock and Awe' don't have staying power.

We certainly don't treat every Muslim and Arab as part of some amorphous enemy.

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Concentrate how SS? I'm looking for the detail here. "Concentrate our efforts" is a little woolly, and what do we actually do with them? Kill them, try and imprison them (how are we getting on with that these days? Is giving evidence in open courts working to put them away?)

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It seems that quite a few here are happy to have the status quo if it avoids Western powers actually attacking anyone. That is unacceptable and no longer viable.

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Originally posted by orfeo:

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Originally posted by deano:
Alright so you don't like my solution. Hey ho, what's new, like anyone was ever going to given the serious port-side list to the ship.

So what is the solution. I'll give you another false dichotomy (three actually) to constrain your answers...

1) Israel will continue to exist within her current borders and will continue to exist as a sovereign state within the Levant.

2) There will be no Palestinian state brought into existence in the lands currently occupied by Israel.

3) The "west" will not change policy on oil and will continue to defend their national interests by protecting the security of supply at the current levels. Yes we want the oil and will do whatever needs doing to protect the supply from the middle east.

Now, answer the question. How do we get Islamic militants to stop targeting westerners?

Go on, fix it! If you can't I guess this will be the last post on this thread!

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What the hell does the situation in eastern Syria and north-western Iraq have to do with Israel and Palestine? Is everyone who isn't nicely pale-skinned just some undifferentiated mass to you?

I suspect so, given your previous remarks about the Muslim world, all 1.5 billion of 'em. Meanwhile you would bend over backwards to have yourself oh so carefully distinguished on the basis of your nationality, class and political leanings.

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Originally posted by deano:
One of the oft-quoted reasons for muslim hatred of the west is because of the west's support for Israel. But if you weren't aware of that then you need to do some pre-work. Try to get the notes from a classmate.

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Yeah. Because the people being affected by what's going on in eastern Syria and north-western Iraq are overwhelmingly Westerners. It's all about Western hatred.

I know why some people say they hate the West. What I don't know is why you think that is the sole driver of ISIS, why every single thing that happens in the world is All About You. People in other parts of the world are perfectly capable of having their own concerns and conflicts that aren't All About You until you stick your bloody nose in yelling things like "let's nuke 'em all".

(EDIT: In fact, the explicit purpose of beheading Foley was to say don't stick your nose in.)

I mean, does Iran hate the West? Quite possibly, at least in some parts of its post-revolution history. Does Iran exist for the sole purpose of hating the West? Of course it bloody doesn't.

But then, the very purpose of a 'black hat' existing is to create evil plans to destroy the 'white hats', right? No independent concerns or motivations, just an opposing force, entirely defined by its opposition.

Enjoy your cartoon world, you moron.

[ 21. August 2014, 12:33: Message edited by: orfeo ]

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Originally posted by deano:
Alright so you don't like my solution. Hey ho, what's new, like anyone was ever going to given the serious port-side list to the ship.

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Originally posted by orfeo:



I mean, does Iran hate the West? Quite possibly, at least in some parts of its post-revolution history.

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Originally posted by Matt Black:

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Originally posted by orfeo:



I mean, does Iran hate the West? Quite possibly, at least in some parts of its post-revolution history.

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The main reason for that can be found in one name from its pre-revolutionary history: Kermit (and, no, I don't mean the frog; we have enough muppets here already with Deano).

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Originally posted by L'organist:
Actually the saying "Kill them all, God will know his own" is more correctly attributed to Dominic Guzman - known to RCs as Saint Dominic.

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Dominic himself had no illusions as to the efficacy or propriety of inducing Christian orthodoxy by military activity nor, as as is sometimes alleged, had he anything to do with the establishment of inquisitions in concert with the civil power, which was done in the Midi from the end of the twelfth century. He never appears to have in any way concurred in the execution of any of those unhappy persons that then suffered. The original historians mention no other arms to have been used by him against heretics than those of instruction, patience, penance, fasting, tears and prayer; and he rebuked his ex-troubadour supporter, Fulk, Bishop of Toulouse, when he went on a visitation accompanied by soldiers, servants and sumter-mules, with the words, “The enemies of the faith cannot be overcome like that. Arm yourself with prayer, rather than a sword; wear humility rather than fine clothes.”

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Yes indeed, in actual fact the person who really said it was St Deano of No Idea ... or Dunno for short.

What he really said was, 'Nuke the lot of them and it doesn't matter if innocent people are killed as well ... the more who're killed the better, particularly if they're those scruffy, leftie layabouts who stop me getting into work on time ...'

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Originally posted by deano:
This is for at least the third time of asking and no answers pertinent to the real world that exists right now has been forthcoming.

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According to the Cistercian writer Caesar of Heisterbach, Arnaud-Amaury, when asked by a crusader how to distinguish the Cathars from the Catholics, answered: "Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius" – "Kill them [all]! Surely the Lord discerns which [ones] are his". On the other hand, the legate's own statement, in a letter to the pope in August 1209 (col.139), states:

while discussions were still going on with the barons about the release of those in the city who were deemed to be Catholics, the servants and other persons of low degree and unarmed attacked the city without waiting for orders from their leaders. To our amazement, crying "to arms, to arms!", within the space of two or three hours they crossed the ditches and the walls and Béziers was taken. Our men spared no one, irrespective of rank, sex or age, and put to the sword almost 20,000 people. After this great slaughter the whole city was despoiled and burnt, as divine vengeance miraculously...

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deano is a simple soul, a Biblical literalist.

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Not in my Bible he ain't.... There is no easy answer here because we're starting from a mess; the ultimate answer will be to unravel the mess on our side. Counter the idea of an 'Islamic State' by rejecting, as the NT does, the idea of a 'Christian state'. It won't happen overnight, but it's the only answer and it's what Jesus, Paul, Peter, etc., told us to do....

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Originally posted by deano:
Downsides to that one?

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