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Source: (consider it) Thread: Doctor Who: Fall 2014
M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291

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I found it the most disappointing one of this series so far - too much people-stuff and not enough monster plot.

The ending was intriguing, though.

M.

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St Everild
Shipmate
# 3626

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Loved this!
I didn't think there is romance between the Doctor and Clara, more that the Doctor needs Clara to reflect his sense of superiority and a potential "Clara and Danny" situation will overturn this.

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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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Not a great episode. Too much relationship-type stuff, and unconvincing stuff at that, taking the place of plot. Wince-making rather than amusing. Capaldi is a good actor, but he is being wasted on indifferent to poor scripts.
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Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068

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I tend to agree. And I started to go dizzy watching Clara's overlong scenes of school-date-Tardis-taxi-school-back to Tardis silliness. I liked Clara originally but I am rapidly going off the bickering and the snappy one-liners between her and the Doctor.

The most interesting scene was the final one in 'heaven' with Chris Addison, the CSO and Missy.

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Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde

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JonahMan
Shipmate
# 12126

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quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
I tend to agree. And I started to go dizzy watching Clara's overlong scenes of school-date-Tardis-taxi-school-back to Tardis silliness. I liked Clara originally but I am rapidly going off the bickering and the snappy one-liners between her and the Doctor.

The most interesting scene was the final one in 'heaven' with Chris Addison, the CSO and Missy.

Yeah, this episode was weak. The monster, in spite of allegedly having the firepower to blow up the entire planet, was dealt with in a rather perfunctory manner, almost as a side issue to the relationship stuff.

On the other hand, the heaven scene was most confusing. As one who hasn't seen any recent episodes except the last three, am I supposed to know who any of the people in it are. (The woman/God was, I think, in Green Wing as the nutty HR bod, at least she reminded me of her from the brief glance.

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And old age itself, and illness and the grave
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492

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Hi, everybody! I have not posted on this thread before...

I just finished watching what may have been a current episode about a homicidal robot killing a police constable and terrorizing a school: I think the episode was called Pink.

It was broadcast on the execrable "BBC America". The money-grubbing rat bastards who run the channel kept sticking adverts into what must have been a 29-minute programme in real life. I did not enjoy them inserting 21 minutes of adverts at the rate of 5 or 7 every four or five minutes. I watched the Jaguar ad by choice as it at least had a British voice-over. Thank God, I recorded it yesterday as it required a Herculean amount of manual dexterity in my right index finger to keep the rubbish ads at bay.

Dunno about this; perhaps I shan't watch it again until I can order DVDs from the real BBC. I miss the old Doctors we used to get on the Public Broadcasting System back in the 90s: they were a whole hour with no breaks.

I really am a fanatic. I have been to the Doctor Who Museum when it was at Land's End in 2007 but it is just a bit too taxing for someone my age to relax and enjoy it in this horrible format!

[brick wall] [Disappointed] [Mad]

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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.

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Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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That was funny. Not brilliant like the Clara-under-the-bed one, but a lot of fun, and showing something of the importance of relationship - Clara and Danny vs Clara and The Doctor.

Also, the theme of The Doctor vs soldiers was heavily played out.

The heaven scene was again interesting - some more insight into heaven.

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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

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I think it was better than I enjoyed it. That kind of comedy resulting from the Doctor being inappropriately rude isn't really my thing, but the episode was clearly up to interesting things with it. And the scene with Danny and the Doctor arguing in the TARDIS was tremendous.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

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I do think though that it's obviously still a new Doctor's first series, in that the writers haven't seen much of Capaldi playing the role. So they're all a bit still writing scripts that would work for Matt Smith and then Capaldi's playing them in the way that works for him, and occasionally there's a bit of a mismatch. But that's probably inevitable.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091

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Capaldi's Doctor seems to be a sort of Gregory House with a TARDIS. You have the same unlikable, misanthropic, almost sociopathic exterior, and the question as to how much of what he does is due to compassion, and how much is due to a love of mystery, adventure or a need to prove himself right. Instead of "Everybody lies", you have "Humans are stupid and frustrating."
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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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And "never lose your temper in the middle of a door sign". [Big Grin]

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498

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I quite enjoyed this one (maybe because my expectations were low...). Although the monster did not really seem as bad as it was made out to be, it was at least visually more convincing than some of the CG creations we've had. But the episode was more about the interpersonal stuff, which I think by the standards of recent Who was surprisingly well done.

On the jealousy side this made me think of the jealousy a parent feels for their child's (first) boy/girlfriend: he knowns he's going to lose her, but at least he has to be sure he loses her to the "right" person. The Third Doctor's reaction to Jo's marriage can probably be read in the same way - quite different from the First, who, in a similar situation, throws out Susan out of the Tardis so she can go and get her own life. Then again, he does not seem to do so gladly either, and maybe he been trying to fill the void ever since ("Dad skills"...?!). Which also makes me wonder what happened to Susan's parents...

Also, we are back to the soldier thing. On the one hand, the Doctor refuses to take Danny seriously because of his history (as Clara points out - he is not now a soldier!) and denies vehemently any suggestion that he might be "officer class", on the other hand, he rather successfully impersonates a general to the Skovox thingy...hmmm...this ain't over yet...

Incidentally, there was a clip of next week's episode on the Graham Norton Show on Friday, which should still be on iplayer. Looks proper scary!

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doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498

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PS, I also liked the subplot with Courtney [Smile]

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'We are star-stuff. We are the Universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out'
Delenn (Babylon 5)

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Gill H

Shipmate
# 68

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So that's what happened to Sergeant Bash from Robot Wars...

Was anyone else getting worried the Pride & Prejudice ref might be significant? The Doctor as Darcy, socially awkward and pre-judging others; Adrian the nerdy English teacher as Mr Collins; Clara as Lizzie - intelligent and sparky; which would make Danny the charming soldier Wickham - bad boyfriend material,

Fortunately this didn't seem borne out by the episode. I think we have established that this Doctor's relationship is much more paternal.

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- Lyda Rose

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Rosa Winkel

Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424

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Indeed. I'm also getting hints of Susan here.

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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

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I hated it, again. I don't mean to. I mean, it's not like I'm watching it trying to hate it. I feel like I felt in 2008.

It's another deja vu episode (we've had one-verb-title scary episode, and now we have a Doctor tries to blend in episode by Roberts called the Somethinger) and it's about the Doctor again.

I hated it. I'm sorry. I must try harder.

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Narcissism.

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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

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Also. The monster was pointless. I mean, I am not against the idea of having a monster that the story isn't about (I liked Hide, after all), but it is a stupid, crappy monster, the equal of any rubbish man-in-a-suit monster from the 70s or 80s.

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Narcissism.

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Matt Black

Shipmate
# 2210

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Perhaps that's inevitable to an extent, given Capaldi's age?

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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

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I'd give a lot for a decent man in a rubber suit STOP LAUGHING AT THE BACK THERE YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE YES YOU LADDIE I'LL DEAL WITH YOU LATER! over this touchy-feely relationship stuff. Who gives a stuff?

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Tubbs

Miss Congeniality
# 440

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I liked it, but whoever did the Matrix effects over the back flip needs a slap.

There were some beautiful touches. At the parent's evening, "But last year you said she was a very disruptive influence, this year you said disruptive ... That's an improvement right?" [Killing me]

Next week's looks properly scary. Unless we've seen all the good bits already. The end was interesting. Obviously setting something up for the last few eps.

Tubbs

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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Well that has been the first episode this series I've enjoyed all the way through. Frustratingly, it's also the first episode I failed to record so I might have to buy a DVD with lots of the previous rubbish in order to get this one permanently. This was character driven, in a convincing way, although I still think the Doctor's feelings towards Clara are not entirely innocent. Gill's comments about Pride and Prejudice were spot on, I felt, although I was puzzled by the quibble about dates - the book was published in 1813, and it's hard to say when Austen wrote it as so much revision was involved.

OK the monster wasn't great, but I couldn't care less. Who at it's best has never been about the monsters - well, that's my perspective even though I know other Shipmates deeply disagree. And the stuff with Courtney was fantastic; I very much hope we see more of her.

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
It's another deja vu episode (we've had one-verb-title scary episode, and now we have a Doctor tries to blend in episode by Roberts called the Somethinger) and it's about the Doctor again.

I feel that the similarities between this and the Lodger pretty much end there.
I also feel that just because it's about the Doctor doesn't mean it's only about the Doctor. I'll concede that the charge that this was all about the Doctor is truer of this than it was of, say, Listen.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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Anyone catch Peter Capaldi on Graham Norton - fecking hilarious.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
I'll concede that the charge that this was all about the Doctor is truer of this than it was of, say, Listen.

It is odd how different people perceive things differently. I thought "Listen" was very much about the Doctor: his childhood, his fear. On the other hand, I didn't see "The Caretaker" as being about the Doctor at all (or, at least, no more than any other episode--he is the primary character in the series, so Rather A Lot of them have him getting involved and resolving the problem). In "The Caretaker" he spends most of his time telling people to leave him alone to take care of the problem...but Clara and Danny (and, to some extent, Courtney) keep insisting on poking their noses into it. I saw the episode as being primarily about them and what motivates them rather than revealing any great insight about the Doctor.

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

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Listen is I thought about bogeymen and being afraid when alone at night and all those kinds of things, and I thought about the Doctor only in so far as it uses him to focus those anxieties. Whereas The Caretaker is indeed about Clara and Danny, but Clara and Danny are fictional characters who exist in the Doctor's television program.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

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Unrealistic. In the stuff Clara wears to teach she'd be causing acute hormonal distress to nearly every boy in her classes, and some of the girls, and get naff all work out of them.

[ 30. September 2014, 13:28: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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This is a program about a time-travelling alien who spends his entire life getting into every kind of trouble imaginable. A complaint that someone's clothing is unrealistic feels like a case of swallowing a camel while straining a gnat.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331

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Nice to see that the tradition of Fashion Victims (as documented in Paul Cornell et al.'s 'Discontinuity Guide') is continuing in New Who.

<tangent> just seen how much second-hand copies of the Discontinuity Guide are going for on Amazon - now in a state of shock <\tangent>

[ 30. September 2014, 14:20: Message edited by: Jane R ]

Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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The Discontinuity Guide is one of my favorite "go to" reference works for Who.

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
This is a program about a time-travelling alien who spends his entire life getting into every kind of trouble imaginable. A complaint that someone's clothing is unrealistic feels like a case of swallowing a camel while straining a gnat.

Nah. It's the little realisms that make the big unrealistic work.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

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By the way, Mr Pink isn't the first Coal Hill maths teacher with Superhuman Ex Squaddie Powers that the Doctor's met.

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Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

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Actually I double checked and the other Superhuman Ex Squaddie was actually a science teacher. Still.

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Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
By the way, Mr Pink isn't the first Coal Hill maths teacher with Superhuman Ex Squaddie Powers that the Doctor's met.

Are you referring to the Aztec-incapacitating Vulcan death grip, or is it something else?

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313

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quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Nice to see that the tradition of Fashion Victims (as documented in Paul Cornell et al.'s 'Discontinuity Guide') is continuing in New Who.

<tangent> just seen how much second-hand copies of the Discontinuity Guide are going for on Amazon - now in a state of shock <\tangent>

The ebook is only a fiver. My eldest will be very pleased when he finds this on his Kindle [Smile] (his Kindle is on my account so I get to read it on mine too).

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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
By the way, Mr Pink isn't the first Coal Hill maths teacher with Superhuman Ex Squaddie Powers that the Doctor's met.

Are you referring to the Aztec-incapacitating Vulcan death grip, or is it something else?
Exactly that, Ian Chesterton's ability to knock out Aztecs with a pinch, taught to him while he did National Service.

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Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Unrealistic. In the stuff Clara wears to teach she'd be causing acute hormonal distress to nearly every boy in her classes, and some of the girls, and get naff all work out of them.

If Clara was teaching me, it really wouldn't matter what she was wearing. I wouldn't get any work done.

--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

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I am not sure I am comfortable with how explicitly they are presenting Clara as a terrible teacher, if I am honest.

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Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rosa Winkel

Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424

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She came across as inexperienced in the first episode of this series, but apart from that, I'm not getting that message at all.

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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project

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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

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quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
She came across as inexperienced in the first episode of this series, but apart from that, I'm not getting that message at all.

The whole argument about Austen with the caretaker in front of a class? The fact that she's surprised that the kids have figured out that she's seeing the maths teacher despite the fact she's been all but canoodling with the guy in front of the kids?

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Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Great Gumby

Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
This is a program about a time-travelling alien who spends his entire life getting into every kind of trouble imaginable. A complaint that someone's clothing is unrealistic feels like a case of swallowing a camel while straining a gnat.

Nah. It's the little realisms that make the big unrealistic work.
I agree entirely, but in complaining that Clara's outfits aren't causing spontaneous levitation of boys' desks, might you possibly be extending that principle a little too far?

Well, I liked it. It was about personalities and relationships more than the tacked-on monster, and I thought it was both fun and revealing. But I hope Courtney doesn't become a regular fixture, because the odds are very short that she'll end up written on an arc between Mouthy Ghetto Kid (which she pretty much is already) and Magical Negro.

On the Heaven front, there were a couple of curious details. The policeman was the first "victim" who had no involvement with the Doctor, although he was in the same area - is Missy following the Doctor around, or are there a lot more people in Heaven than we realised? And he was explicitly told that he was dead - do we take that literally, or is it based on careful definitions of "dead" or even "you"? There must be a SF explanation, but the options are narrowing.

There's also his badly maimed body to explain, which rules out a lot of possibilities.

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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

A letter to my son about death

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Ariel
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# 58

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quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
And he was explicitly told that he was dead - do we take that literally, or is it based on careful definitions of "dead" or even "you"?

I was thinking it might be "dead" in the way that Amy Pond was dead at some point - that weird set of episodes where she was pregnant/not pregnant/dead/not dead.

The afterlife is probably the inside of a giant computer brain. We just need Avon to reprogram it with a sonic screwdriver, or Vila to tell it terrible jokes.

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Jane R
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# 331

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Or Blake to coerce it into reprogramming itself... 'Give us Paradise right now or I will switch you off!'
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Jay-Emm
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# 11411

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I on the whole liked it, also.
The odd story where the aliens are us is fine with me, (though it would be harder to do an Aztecs now).
But...
if the monsters a bit parter, they could have left it as such. As it was it had an odd mix of apparent omnipotence and inability to attack a slow moving target. Which could have been easily explained. But wasn't.
Also the Maths teachers jump seemed a bit more Jedi, than soldiery. Felt a bit of military advice could have done a better scene (though I am ignorant).

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
The whole argument about Austen with the caretaker in front of a class? The fact that she's surprised that the kids have figured out that she's seeing the maths teacher despite the fact she's been all but canoodling with the guy in front of the kids?

I can see that in real life someone who behaved like that would be a bad teacher. But I think one can have different expectations in a comedy episode. The way the scene is played isn't 'Clara is a bad teacher,' but 'the last thing any teacher needs is the Doctor putting his oar in'.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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The thing is, we don't know why that was written on the board - maybe it was answers from the class, that she was going to correct at the end.

It is a problem that showing teaching on TV is always stylised - because the reality takes a long time and doesn't always have the right dramatic drive. The "Educating ..." series film for months, and then edit into 3 hours, to follow what seem like productive storylines. However we rarely see much actual teaching.

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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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Penny S
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# 14768

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Not just TV - Professor Jones always does remarkably short lectures, if such they can be called, before haring off into the more esoteric strands of what is laughably called archaeology. (About the level of the comments runed on the walls of Maes Howe.*) No-one could tell a narrative with real time lessons.

*Guess where I've been for a week.

[ 02. October 2014, 13:06: Message edited by: Penny S ]

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
On the Heaven front, there were a couple of curious details. The policeman was the first "victim" who had no involvement with the Doctor, although he was in the same area - is Missy following the Doctor around, or are there a lot more people in Heaven than we realised?

It occurred to me afterwards that the policeman's death was still the Doctor's fault, in that the thingummy was only at that location because it had picked up traces of artron energy. So it is not inconsistent with a general theme of "people keep dying around you, because of you".

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

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A good friend who is more of a Whovian than I betrayed his phobia of spiders with a "surely you're not going to let the kids watch this week's episode?" text.

I may be a welter of insecurities and fears, but spiders ain't one of those.

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Narcissism.

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Starbug
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# 15917

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I can't bear spiders and Mr Bug is away tonight, so in the interests of sleeping, I'm recording tonight's episode and will watch it tomorrow when he gets back. [Hot and Hormonal]

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“Oh the pointing again. They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?” ― The Day of the Doctor

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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I have just returned from the Canary Islands, and themoon looks just like the Lanzarote lava fields. I never thought I'd be saying "been there" to the moon.

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Last ever sig ...

blog

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