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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Doctor Who: Fall 2014
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
I have just returned from the Canary Islands, and themoon looks just like the Lanzarote lava fields. I never thought I'd be saying "been there" to the moon.
Isn't it just the strangest landscape? And the significant period of eruption was in the 18th century. Geological time whole other thing.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
I have just returned from the Canary Islands, and themoon looks just like the Lanzarote lava fields. I never thought I'd be saying "been there" to the moon.
According to the Radio Times, there's an obvious reason for that.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Well, that was one of the silliest episodes ever. The moon suddenly puts on weight because it's going to hatch after millions of years - where has that weight come from? Earth suffers for 10 years before sending up a shuttle, and crews it with old incompetents? A new born creature lays an egg exactly the same size, weight and shape as the one it's just watched out of? Really?
Clara got some good lines though: "I'll slap you so hard you'll regenerate".
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
What a lot of rubbish that episode was. If they don't have the time or the ability to write a decent one, there's a huge fanbase out there waiting to be tapped.
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
Rubbish, or genius? The science on this episode was jaw-droppingly dreadful, there's no doubt about that. But there's a very respectable tradition in Doctor Who of allowing the science to be dreadful when there's a better story to be told (and even sometimes when there isn't - Tenth Planet, anyone?). The story was about impossible moral dilemmas, and for once the Doctor wasn't going to be the deus ex machina - the deus got back in his machina and buggered off. The decision got left to Non-Special Schoolgirl, Cynical Old Space Hack, and Miss Average.
I think - I'm not sure, but I think I might be tending more towards "genius" than "rubbish".
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
(Oh, and for the record - the moments following "I think I've found your alien!" had this old arachnophobe lifting his feet off the floor in case anything crawled out from under the sofa. Last time I had that sort of reaction to Doctor Who was in about 1971!)
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I was put off right at the start by Clara throwing a strop because Courtney had been told she wasn't special(!). Then there was that bit about the Moon being a giant egg, and everybody on Earth having to vote with their lights. Then Clara threw another strop and stormed off. Frankly the Doctor was well rid of her. And Courtney. Sorry, I still think this was a rubbish episode.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Athrawes
Ship's parrot
# 9594
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Posted
I think I'm with Adeodatus on this one, although I wouldn't go as far as genius. The story was all about Clara feeling responsible. She was responsible, in a way, for Courtney meeting the Doctor, and going off the rails as a result - I know kids like Courtney, and her reaction to being told she's not special rings true. As does Clara's anger when she's forced to make an impossible decision and live with the consequences, when she's spent her time with the Doctor letting him be responsible while she enjoys the ride.
The 'Duty of Care' line was the key to the episode, to me: Clara's duty of care to Courtney and the creature, space-lady's duty of care to her earth, and the Doctor's duty of care to allow for humanity's growing up. Clara's anger is a realistic reaction to being responsible for too much and nearly getting it wrong.
I'm not saying this well, sorry, but I think there was real depth in the character interactions, so I can ignore the sillier aspects of the plot.
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Explaining why is going to need a moment, since along the way we must take in the Ancient Greeks, the study of birds, witchcraft, 19thC Vaudeville and the history of baseball. Michael Quinion.
Posts: 2966 | From: somewhere with a book shop | Registered: Jun 2005
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Something else that annoyed me, although it shouldn't, was the agonising over the life of one creature against the lives on an entire planet. But this is a failing of Who as a whole - normally the series is quite happy to kill all sorts of aliens to save a single human, except when it isn't and wants to have a plot of faux moral anguish.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Athrawes
Ship's parrot
# 9594
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Posted
Thinking a bit more about this, Clara often feels responsible for the Doctor (being his carer, and his conscience for instance) and suddenly he makes her responsible for choosing between the life of a possibly unique creature and the whole planet. And then she finds out that her decision was not just about that, but the entire future of humanity. No wonder she was furious with him for dumping all that on her.
Courtney was annoying and irritating ( although not as bad as she could have been). I don't really want to have too much more of her.
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Explaining why is going to need a moment, since along the way we must take in the Ancient Greeks, the study of birds, witchcraft, 19thC Vaudeville and the history of baseball. Michael Quinion.
Posts: 2966 | From: somewhere with a book shop | Registered: Jun 2005
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
Loved it, love them all. Not perfect, gaps, some duff ideas and lines but the ambition, acting and depth can be breath taking. Bit clunky sometimes but hey.
Last night, real behind the sofa moments (haven't had that for ages) real exploration of what it is to be mature/adult with the doctor, Clara and the kid all at different stages all showing maturity and immaturity.
Some great lines. I like the way the soldier/teacher thing is going too, real wisdom there.
Capaldi is a freaking genius. It is SO refreshing to have a Doctor who is seemingly unpredictable, odd and FUNNY.
I think more about these episodes that ever before, they are asking bigger question. Proper fairy stories.
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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tessaB
Shipmate
# 8533
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Posted
I'm with Pyx_e on this one. The scope of the stories is huge and for me that is one of the best things about science fiction, that one can actually tell a story that illustrates a philosophical point without it being ridiculous. Okay you may say that the science is ridiculous but the story itself hung together in a way that the most stories about 'the greater good' don't.
I admit to feeling disappointed with my fellow humans as the world went dark ![[Tear]](graemlins/tear.gif)
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tessaB
eating chocolate to the glory of God
Holiday cottage near Rye
Posts: 1068 | From: U.K. | Registered: Sep 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
That was... really, REALLY odd.
More than anything, parts of it just felt tonally off. And I don't think it's the dodgy science that's bothering me, I think it's the sheer casualness of some of it.
You know what I think modern Who's biggest problem is? Vast, grand ideas are all very well, but you've got to give them time to develop, and too often Who tries to shove them into a period of 45 minutes in ways that don't work.
So here, I think there's the potential for an amazing story about how the Earth has lost interest in space, and how a crisis develops that means they have to go back out in space. I think there's a great scare story in here. I think there's a powerful moral dilemma. I think, as a fan of Spooks, there's an absolutely brilliant choice of guest star to create a character who will do whatever it takes (as well as some bloody good acting from Capaldi).
I just don't think there's enough screen time to do all those things justice. Too often I felt like I was being told I ought to be emotionally invested in something because a piece of dialogue has been delivered. Box ticked, and we need to move on. I've been told how there's some drama happening on Earth, so therefore I care about it now, right? Well, no, actually, I found myself caring far more about the fate of the handful of characters I could see on screen, not some abstract information about an entire planet of people whose only contribution was to reduce their electricity bills.
Too many episodes do this nowadays. Too many episodes haven't, ironically enough, made the difficult choices - about what kind of story can be properly told and how many ideas can be truly explored.
And it's even more exasperating in a case like this when I can see how great the ideas were. Certain bits of this were fantastic. The whole idea of an abandoned base under attack - classic Who right there. Those creatures were great, and a huge thumbs up to the sound team for the shrieks and skittering sounds. The whole idea of the Doctor standing aside was a great one. And the way Clara confronted the Doctor towards the end was another superb idea - it's about time we had a companion fall out with him in this way, and now is exactly the right time to do it, as we've already had the idea, from a couple of episodes this season, that Clara finds it difficult to handle the regenerated Doctor.
But for me there wasn't enough weaving those great ideas together into a single, satisfying whole.
[ 05. October 2014, 14:05: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Well I watched this today, having seen some interesting tweets about it.
The science was ridiculous. I mean more ridiculous than usual. The moon would not put on that weight just before hatching (where would it get the material from, as Alice Roberts commented on twitter). If it changed to that degree, the effects would be utterly devastating, and irreversible. There would not be a happy earth to return to.
And yes, a newborn creature laying an egg that matched the size and position of the old moon was a stupid solution to the problem.
The character development, OTOH, was better. The Doctor having a strop. The relationships between the Doctor and Clara. The questions of responsibility - Duty of Care was crucial. Everyone has a duty of care to others - and when they fail to live up to it, as the Doctor did to Clara, the relationship is damaged, as shown by Claras strop.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Rubbish, or genius? The science on this episode was jaw-droppingly dreadful, there's no doubt about that. But there's a very respectable tradition in Doctor Who of allowing the science to be dreadful when there's a better story to be told.
Genius imo. The science never really matters in science fiction.
I loved it and the spiders were fabulous!
The moon's an egg - who knew?
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Kitten
Shipmate
# 1179
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
The moon's an egg - who knew?
Vachel Lindsay knew
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Maius intra qua extra
Never accept a ride from a stranger, unless they are in a big blue box
Posts: 2330 | From: Carmarthenshire | Registered: Aug 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Boogie - I disagree. The science does matter. It doesn't have to work, but it has to make sense.
This week it didn't, which was frustrating. If the science had been better, I would have said genius. As it is, the best I can say is good.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
Just watched this now and loved the skittering and other sounds of the germs as we watched Them yesterday and the noises made by ants were almost identical.
[ 05. October 2014, 19:30: Message edited by: Heavenly Anarchist ]
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
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Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498
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Posted
I'm quite disappointed.
Having sen both the trailer and the clip on the Graham Norton Show, I took up position behind the metaphorical sofa (having carefully checked for the presence of arachnids first...), only to emerge very soon indeed. One problem was that it promised and did not deliver
The first spider was great, and I started wondering whether there's be Planet of Spiders references coning up, but suddenly they turned into germs...really???why?? Similarly, the moon putting on weight seemed a fantastic device for making sense of the fact that the whole things was obviously shot with Earth gravity, the Doctor's list of possible causes putting me in mind of Arthur Clarke's monoliths and then the actual explanation was ludicrous! Yes, there is a certain amount of poetic licence for the treatment of science in SF, but, as Schroedinger's cat says, it needs to make sense to be believable, and surely anything that can be looked up on wikipedia can be used sensibly by a writer worth their salt.
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Earth suffers for 10 years before sending up a shuttle, and crews it with old incompetents?
Somehow this was the only realistic thing about the main plotline...If the last space shuttle was in a Museum with its back sawn off and no space programme of any kind, it probably would take a decade to get it functional and to find some folk who'd still know what to do with it.
As orfeo noted, it would have been nice to find out a bit more about the background to this.
quote:
Originally posted by Athrawes:
I think there was real depth in the character interactions, so I can ignore the sillier aspects of the plot.
Yes, it's a shame it was explored with the help of such a silly scenario. What a waste of good actors...
At least last week, the monster stayed far enough in the background for it to be shrugged off with a sigh.
(BTW, I think last time someone noted something along the lines of a man-in-rubber-suit monster fitting Capaldi's generation of Doctor Who fans - well this week in the Extra, he referred to his first hand-to-hand fight with a rubber dummy as a "rite of passage" ![[Smile]](smile.gif) )
Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Another quibble, with gravity the "moon" didn't look like the moon. They should have stuck to a quarry in Wales - for all Moffatt's comments on Extra I think he was spending money gratuitously just to show he can.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
If I cared about terrible science, I wouldn't be watching Doctor Who, frankly, of any era (guys, Genesis of the Daleks may be some of the greatest TV the BBC ever made, for example, but let's not talk about the science).
But I had real problems with how the Doctor was written. He was a jerk. A colossal jerk, and his clearing off wasn't presented in a way that even made it look like he was doing. Flawed heroes are all very well, but that's not flawed, that's... I don't even know what that is. The writing of the character was so bad you couldn't even tell, other than Clara's reaction was the one any reasonable person would. But that begs the question, why are we even watching him?
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
Dear Wright Bros,
Please stop with the flying machines, it goes against science. I don't understand what you are doing and it scares me. Maybe you should take up fictional writing to alleviate your craving for mad ideas, some form of fiction about science.
yours in a tizzy,
Mr Unimaginative.
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
(I actually thought the idea of the moon hatching like an egg was a really boss idea)
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
Dear Messiah figure,
Please stop doing weird shit. It is important for my mental and emotional health that you act within limits that I expect from you. Of course those limits will become more limiting over time as my insanity increase but hey.
I sort of understand that I can't truly understand. But of course I don't' understand WHY you have to be so mean/ not fulfil MY expectations/ be too clever for my feeble imagination to encompass and hence enjoy (and feel smug about).
Yours in a tizzy,
Mrs. Syrophoenician.
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Robin
Shipmate
# 71
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Posted
I wonder if Moffat wanted to explore what might happen if you introduced mundane technology into Lovecraft's Dreamlands. The turning off (or not) of the lights represents the ambivalence of the waking world about communicating with the dreamlands. And the hatching moon at the end is the perfect climax.
Robin
Posts: 263 | From: Aberdeen | Registered: May 2001
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Boogie: quote:
The science never really matters in science fiction.
That's not quite true. No, it doesn't matter (except to the real pedants) that spaceships shouldn't make any noise, or that lighting up the inside of someone's helmet (so you can see the actor's expression of horror as the planet explodes, or whatever) would render them incapable of seeing anything outside it IRL. But the story must follow some logic of its own.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Dear Messiah figure,
Please stop doing weird shit. It is important for my mental and emotional health that you act within limits that I expect from you. Of course those limits will become more limiting over time as my insanity increase but hey.
I sort of understand that I can't truly understand. But of course I don't' understand WHY you have to be so mean/ not fulfil MY expectations/ be too clever for my feeble imagination to encompass and hence enjoy (and feel smug about).
Yours in a tizzy,
Mrs. Syrophoenician.
No.
For one, the Doctor isn't Jesus, despite what previous episodes suggest, and two, this is a problem with the character of the Doctor being badly written. I mean you could compare it with a classic story like The Curse of Fenric, where the Doctor is equally inscrutable and arguably as much of an asshole, but where even then he is consistently written. This isn't even mysterious. Mysterious suggests the writers have a handle on him. The only clue that the writers might have some handle on what was going on is Clara's reaction, which is right and reasonable.
An antihero is not a bad thing in a drama. But it is a difficult thing to pull off without losing the engagement of the audience.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robin:
I wonder if Moffat wanted to explore what might happen if you introduced mundane technology into Lovecraft's Dreamlands. The turning off (or not) of the lights represents the ambivalence of the waking world about communicating with the dreamlands. And the hatching moon at the end is the perfect climax.
Robin
Let's not get Lovecraft in our Doctor Who though (well, more than there is already). Let's not get Lovecraft in anything other than Lovecraft, in fact.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
What a steaming heap of crap that was. Spider monsters, I thought, that's back to what Who should be about, I thought, sonic screwdrivers resonating with carapaces or some such light half-arsed bollocks. But no, instead we got this steaming pile. Gah. There hasn't been a decent bloody episode with Capaldi, frankly.
[ 06. October 2014, 12:01: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
There hasn't been a decent bloody episode with Capaldi, frankly.
I am inclined to agree, although I am hoping that Frank Cotrell Boyce brings the goods.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
There hasn't been a decent bloody episode with Capaldi, frankly.
It's a waste of a good actor.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
There hasn't been a decent bloody episode with Capaldi, frankly.
It's a waste of a good actor.
And the one thing you can say is that his performance has beeen perfect, that he has sold the lines he's been given to say.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Loved it, love them all. Not perfect, gaps, some duff ideas and lines but the ambition, acting and depth can be breath taking. Bit clunky sometimes but hey.
Last night, real behind the sofa moments (haven't had that for ages) real exploration of what it is to be mature/adult with the doctor, Clara and the kid all at different stages all showing maturity and immaturity.
Some great lines. I like the way the soldier/teacher thing is going too, real wisdom there.
Capaldi is a freaking genius. It is SO refreshing to have a Doctor who is seemingly unpredictable, odd and FUNNY.
I think more about these episodes that ever before, they are asking bigger question. Proper fairy stories.
This was pretty much what the Who fans in the office were muttering around the coffee machine this morning.
The bit at the end with the Doctor and Clara was extremely good. The Doctor knew the outcomes, but he gave the three of them the chance to shape their own people's history.
Clara has always treated travelling with the doctor as a bit of a game - pop off on an adventure and still be back in time for tea or your date with Danny. Was the Doctor trying to make her think more about the wider ramifications?! Time travel will change history, it will change you. (We still don't know if Dalek Oswald will happen or not). I also wondered if she'd reacted differently if 11 had done that, and whether part of the reaction is because 12 isn't the Doctor she signed up for.
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
In acting terms, I think Capaldi and Coleman are both hitting it out of the park (if I may borrow an American phrase). Even in the episodes I haven't liked as much.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Totally agree that Capaldi and Coleman are turning in great performances, but that the scripts have been rubbish. However, I did enjoy last week's - the one set in Colehill School - whatever its name was.
By chance I was watching The Web Planet yesterday, where Ian Chesterton was wearing a Colehill Old Boys' tie. That indicates he was educated there, taught there, and is now head there - put like that his life sounds a bit limited. Did he ever go anywhere? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Totally agree that Capaldi and Coleman are turning in great performances, but that the scripts have been rubbish. However, I did enjoy last week's - the one set in Colehill School - whatever its name was.
By chance I was watching The Web Planet yesterday, where Ian Chesterton was wearing a Colehill Old Boys' tie. That indicates he was educated there, taught there, and is now head there - put like that his life sounds a bit limited. Did he ever go anywhere?
Wiki says Chesterton is the Chairman of the Governors, and that this was in the opening credits of 50th Anniversary Special. The headmaster is called Coburn apparently. If he is chair of the governors he might be doing anything now (though wiki also says he became a prof living in Cambridge) Ian Chesterton
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
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Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357
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Posted
My take is that someone's been mainlining Hartnell and Sylvester McCoy before writing Capaldi (although it's kinda scary to think that Courtney and Ace are meant to be about the same age (even if Sophie Aldred is eight years older than Ace)). And no, I don't consider 1 more consistent than 11. There's also an arc at work that means that this will either be one of the best seasons ever or a complete trainwreck (it's certainly the best season IMO since Smith's first - and there are only two other NuWho seasons IMO that come close (Ecclestone and Donna). The science was silly, the emotional arc excellent and deserved and foreshadowed.
(For the record they're double-banking again. It's fairly obvious next episode will be Clara-free and there'll be something Doctor-light).
Without Capaldi and Coleman this would all be terrible. With them? Listen was excellent. Blink Mk 2: This time with The Doctor. Time Heist was fun. So was running round Coal Hill School with The Caretaker.
And one of the things I love about that episode is that I'm prepared to bet that a lot of it came from a conversation like the following:
A: Let's set an episode ... On the Moon!
B: You can't do that! Gravity! Even by Dr. Who Science standards that's ridiculous!
A: ... Oh. Right. Why can't we change that?
B: ... Change the gravity on the moon? It's scientifically ridiculous!
A: Dr Who!
B: Right. Well if you changed the moon's gravity you'd need to change its mass. ... And that's not going to stop you. You'd also do horrible things to the earth. You'd create hideous tides. It would be the greatest natural disaster ever seen! It would threaten the world!
A: ... So what you're saying is to set an episode on the moon I'd need a McGuffin? And we could only have an episode on the moon if it was attached to world-threatening natural disasters?
B: I think we have half our A-plot.
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My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.
Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.
Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Boogie: quote:
The science never really matters in science fiction.
That's not quite true. No, it doesn't matter (except to the real pedants) that spaceships shouldn't make any noise, or that lighting up the inside of someone's helmet (so you can see the actor's expression of horror as the planet explodes, or whatever) would render them incapable of seeing anything outside it IRL. But the story must follow some logic of its own.
Precisely. The stuff I write (see my sig for details) has science that is explained and has a logic, even though it is, of course, not practical. For me, that is important - I don't like it when writers simply skirt around HOW things work, because then it is just magic. If you want magic, then you can have magic, but if you want Science Fiction (not Fantasy) then it need to have some sort of logic.
The problem is not "the moon is an egg". I can accept that, although I think it could have been done better. The problem is that the moon has gained billions of tons of weight from nowhere. The problem is that moon gains massive weight, cracks open, and then lays another egg with the same size and location as the original, and the impacts on the earth are relatively minor.
The thing is, it didn't need that. the moon could have stayed the same weight, but developed a crack. The story could have worked around that. It could have worked without the needlessly stupid, and that irritates me.
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Blog
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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Boogie: quote:
The science never really matters in science fiction.
That's not quite true. No, it doesn't matter (except to the real pedants) that spaceships shouldn't make any noise, or that lighting up the inside of someone's helmet (so you can see the actor's expression of horror as the planet explodes, or whatever) would render them incapable of seeing anything outside it IRL. But the story must follow some logic of its own.
Precisely. The stuff I write (see my sig for details) has science that is explained and has a logic, even though it is, of course, not practical. For me, that is important - I don't like it when writers simply skirt around HOW things work, because then it is just magic.
Fair enough.
I should have said it doesn't matter to me - not one bit
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Some fantasy writers have actually sat down and thought about how to make their worlds logically consistent too - rather than falling back on 'it works because it's magic'. Ursula Le Guin's Earthsea books have magic that follows the law of conservation of energy, for example; so in that world you wouldn't be able to double the mass of an object the size of the Moon without taking the extra mass from somewhere else... even though it's done by magic.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
My friend (astrobiologist), watching with me, stared at the scene as they watched the egg hatch and burst out "they're on a beach!" in disbelief. And it was a nice placid beach that had seen no particular disruption, the result of ages of stable sea-level.
That was the only time we got pedantic. If there's supposed to have been catastrophe, there should have been some signs of it!
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Justinian: quote:
it's certainly the best season IMO since Smith's first
Well nothing in Smith's era was a particular highpoint. Certainly not his first, where we had Amy trying to rape the Doctor and that silly crack in the wall.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Justinian: quote:
it's certainly the best season IMO since Smith's first
Well nothing in Smith's era was a particular highpoint. Certainly not his first, where we had Amy trying to rape the Doctor and that silly crack in the wall.
The Eleventh Hour is the highpoint of the entire Smith era. And one of the high points of the post-2005 revival. It could only go downhill from there.
I was actually thinking that the current series wasd the worst since the fourth series, although the seventh, which started OK, had a terrible drop of quality really quickly.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
The Eleventh Hour is the highpoint of the entire Smith era. And one of the high points of the post-2005 revival. It could only go downhill from there.
I don't even think it was the best part of that series. The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang was probably the high point - and was simply the best season finale of any of the Dr Who seasons in the modern era. I'll also call out some of the Matt Smith Specials (notably The Snowmen and Day of the Doctor) as being among the best.
quote:
I was actually thinking that the current series wasd the worst since the fourth series, although the seventh, which started OK, had a terrible drop of quality really quickly.
It's certainly better than the Seventh series! (The sixth to me is a series of misses that should have been hits, with the only gem being written by Neil Gaiman).
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My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.
Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.
Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Justinian:
(The sixth to me is a series of misses that should have been hits, with the only gem being written by Neil Gaiman).
Not gonna lie, I hated both of Neil Gaiman's episodes. But then Neil Gaiman generally rubs me up the wrong way in precisely the way Douglas Adams did, that whole posh boy comfy comedy-drama thing.
It's a style thing. I mean, a short story collection by Neil Gaiman is one of very few books I've chucked across the room.
With you on Pandorica Opens/Big Bang, though.
[ 07. October 2014, 16:20: Message edited by: Wood ]
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Ceannaideach
Shipmate
# 12007
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Posted
For the first time in Doctor Who the science guffs were a bit of a distraction for me. Almost as much as trying to remember whether this episode (2049) was set before or after The Moonbase and Frontier in Space. (After both as it turns out; 2070 and 26th Century respectively. Which is possibly how the Doctor knew the moon or its replacement would still be there.)
Interesting morality play but one of the poorer episodes of the series so far. Next weeks looks like it could be good. As long as the monster stays scary and not, say, Sutekh's long lost lover who only needs to be understood.
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"I dream of the day when I will learn to stop asking questions for which I will regret learning the answers." - Roy Greenhilt OOTS
Posts: 199 | From: Shakespeare's County | Registered: Nov 2006
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Good Science Fiction has a basic "what if ..." principle, and works on that basis. Dr Who has "a creature who can travel in time and space" as the basic principle, and everything else follows on from this idea. Normally, this provides enough flexibility for the story-lines. This time, they had to stretch it further, and it broke.
I am watching Resurrection on Watch, which has its own "what if" - what if people who died were to come back. It is ridiculous, but given an acceptance of that, everything else does then follow.
This weeks DW was bad SF. As a piece of drama, it had some redeeming features, but as SF it was bad.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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