homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools


Post new thread  Post a reply
My profile login | | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   » Ship's Locker   » Limbo   » Doctor Who: Fall 2014 (Page 4)

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.  
Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  ...  10  11  12 
 
Source: (consider it) Thread: Doctor Who: Fall 2014
Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

 - Posted      Profile for Dafyd   Email Dafyd   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Justinian:
It's certainly better than the Seventh series! (The sixth to me is a series of misses that should have been hits, with the only gem being written by Neil Gaiman).

I would add The Girl Who Waited, which is maybe a couple of notes off perfect, and The God Complex whose only flaw (other than the fact that I don't see eye to eye with the author about faith, which is not really a flaw) is that it tries to invoke the ending of an even better story and doesn't pull it off.

The peaks in Season Seven (Asylum, Angels, Hide, Name) are perhaps lower than any other modern series. But I think the troughs are higher. Ok - I fail to even understand why people hate The Rings of Akhaten and Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS. As far as I'm concerned the only real failure is Power of Three. And I can think of worse episodes from any earlier series of modern Doctor Who. (Boom Town, Tooth and Claw, Lazarus Effect, Planet of the Ood, Victory of the Daleks, Curse of the Black Spot).

[ 07. October 2014, 17:44: Message edited by: Dafyd ]

--------------------
we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
LeRoc

Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216

 - Posted      Profile for LeRoc     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
After starting watching the new series, I'm slowly catching up. Yes, I've caught the bug. I'm halfway Season 5 now.

I like it very much. So far, I've been most convinced by the Tennant / Piper pairing. There's a chemistry there that just works for me. Freema Agyeman is very beautiful, but she doesn't click with me as an actress. And Tate shouts too much.

I have to say that I'm still trying to get used to Smith / Gillan. They're so young ... The scene of the Doctor defying the Atraxi was brilliant, but the fifth season seems to have too many easy solutions (the Doctor saving Venice by flipping a switch) and people being attacked by monsters behind locked doors which the Doctor frantically tries to open.

Looking forward to see where the season will go.

--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

 - Posted      Profile for Firenze     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Accurate at all?
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

 - Posted      Profile for Hedgehog   Email Hedgehog   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
It's a viewpoint. I agree with some of it, disagree with some of it. Rather like a Townes van Zandt lyric: "Forget most. Remember some. Don't turn none away."

--------------------
"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

 - Posted      Profile for Firenze     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
It's a viewpoint.

I think it's intended to be a satire.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Great Gumby

Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989

 - Posted      Profile for The Great Gumby   Author's homepage   Email The Great Gumby   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I'm starting again from Eccleston with the K-Glets, and as early as The End of The World, I noticed something interesting. A gathering billions of years in the future to watch the Earth being consumed by the Sun - except that we know that this will be a slow and entirely undramatic process, and there's the problem of continental shift which should make that Earth unrecognisable. All of which was neatly addressed and explained away before the episode really got going, with some stuff about Earth as nature reserve. You can get away with all kinds of premises and anomalies as long as you sell them well, but this latest episode didn't even try.

How does an egg massively increase in mass, never mind that the stated increase is practically a margin of error on the scale of the moon? How does any newborn creature instantly lay an egg as big as itself? You could handwave some wormholey incubation process or anything, but at least make an effort! Most of the other WTF moments, like the whole history of space exploration and the nature of this mission, could have done with better explanations, but at least they weren't the entire point of the story.

It's about now that someone makes a snarky comment about regenerating aliens in time-travelling blue boxes, which confuses premise and detail, not to mention the nature of drama. We watch to see what happens and how characters behave, which is why we get into discussions about why fictional characters in a fictional scenario behaved in a certain fictional way. We look at motivation, and that inevitably leads to questions like "how does that work, then?"

I hated it for being nonsensical, I hate Courtney for being as annoying as I feared, and I hate the fact that it could have been good, even great, if they'd just made an effort. The situation at the end and criticism of the Doctor's behaviour may turn out to be profound or just another disposable moral dilemma-lite to move characters into different positions. Even if it was just a cheap device, it deserved a better episode than this.

--------------------
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

A letter to my son about death

Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357

 - Posted      Profile for Justinian   Email Justinian   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Going back to the moon changing mass, there is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with that for Dr. Who. Even the moon being a big egg would have been a perfectly acceptable premise. Both are massively counterfactual and against existing Whoniverse lore - but so is the premise to about half of Dr Who plots. What was difficult to swallow was the combination of the two. Either, yes. Both? Wtf. (If the moon had been changing mass because things were coming through from E-space or whatever that would have made enough sense to not cause trouble).

quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Justinian:
It's certainly better than the Seventh series! (The sixth to me is a series of misses that should have been hits, with the only gem being written by Neil Gaiman).

I would add The Girl Who Waited, which is maybe a couple of notes off perfect, and The God Complex whose only flaw (other than the fact that I don't see eye to eye with the author about faith, which is not really a flaw) is that it tries to invoke the ending of an even better story and doesn't pull it off.

The peaks in Season Seven (Asylum, Angels, Hide, Name) are perhaps lower than any other modern series. But I think the troughs are higher. Ok - I fail to even understand why people hate The Rings of Akhaten and Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS. As far as I'm concerned the only real failure is Power of Three. And I can think of worse episodes from any earlier series of modern Doctor Who. (Boom Town, Tooth and Claw, Lazarus Effect, Planet of the Ood, Victory of the Daleks, Curse of the Black Spot).

I think the troughs being higher is part of the problem with season 7. It's the safest season of Who there's been since the reboot. And when I'm watching Who I do not want safe. Another ridiculous CGI Giant Wasp or Curse of the Black Spot is 45 minutes I won't get back (or normally more like 15 minutes and 30 minutes half watching and half doing something else). But another Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS or Rings of Ahkten is also 45 minutes of wasting my time - and I was probably watching for nearer 30 of them. Life's too short for mediocre dramas, and this counts double given the episodic rather than the continuity driven nature of Doctor Who. And if for every great Dr Who we get two Curses of the Black Spot or silly giant wasps, I'll take that gladly. I want there to be episodes that stick with me beyond the time I spent watching them.

The single strongest emotional beat in Season 7 was, to me, the storyboarded short "P.S." that was never actually filmed due to actor availability.

That said I'll gladly grant The Girl Who Waited and The God Complex for S6. Which leads to an interesting point - a lot of the double banked episodes which are very light on either Doctor or Companion (or both as in Blink) seem to be good or at least very intense ones - but you can keep the Absorbaloff. Blink, Midnight/Turn Left, The Girl who Waited/Closing Time are the ones that come to mind.

quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
quote:
Originally posted by Justinian:
(The sixth to me is a series of misses that should have been hits, with the only gem being written by Neil Gaiman).

Not gonna lie, I hated both of Neil Gaiman's episodes. But then Neil Gaiman generally rubs me up the wrong way in precisely the way Douglas Adams did, that whole posh boy comfy comedy-drama thing.

It's a style thing. I mean, a short story collection by Neil Gaiman is one of very few books I've chucked across the room.

With you on Pandorica Opens/Big Bang, though.

My problem with Gaiman is that I've read The Sandman. It was awesome. But almost everything I've read of his since seems to be an echo. I liked The Doctor's Wife - but Nightmare in Silver was deeply unimpressive.

--------------------
My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.

Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.

Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
tessaB
Shipmate
# 8533

 - Posted      Profile for tessaB   Email tessaB   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Not sure I really understand the problem with the moon bug laying an egg.
I'm sort of assuming that most of the weight of the moon by then was the whatever it was that hatched . Now correct me if I'm wrong but the whole problem with that was that it was too heavy. The new moon, laid by the wiwth on the other hand was lighter, that is the weight that the original moon had been. so if the wiwth had been curled up inside the moon, gaining weight by, oh I don't know, sucking in passing cosmic dust, then it could easily have laid an agg that weighed less than it did, but the same as the original egg. Therefore problem solved.
There see, I should have been writing a sermon and you pedants made me spend time working this out!

--------------------
tessaB
eating chocolate to the glory of God
Holiday cottage near Rye

Posts: 1068 | From: U.K. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

 - Posted      Profile for Hedgehog   Email Hedgehog   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Are you suggesting that you can't work that into the sermon? [Disappointed]

--------------------
"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

 - Posted      Profile for Penny S     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I'm getting a bit fed up with all the corseted women in black with high heels and closely coiffed hair. Thoroughly confusing, and suspect. And the initial K. There are far too many of them by comparison with real life.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

 - Posted      Profile for Wood   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Justinian:
Going back to the moon changing mass, there is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with that for Dr. Who. Even the moon being a big egg would have been a perfectly acceptable premise. Both are massively counterfactual and against existing Whoniverse lore - but so is the premise to about half of Dr Who plots. What was difficult to swallow was the combination of the two. Either, yes. Both? Wtf. (If the moon had been changing mass because things were coming through from E-space or whatever that would have made enough sense to not cause trouble).

Straw poll (cos I wasn't here when this happened): how did people feel about the TARDIS towing Earth home at the end of Journey's End?

Towing. Earth.

I still have to type it twice to believe I saw it. I mean, Who has been stupid scientifically from the beginning (Dalek Invasion of Earth, 1964: Daleks intend to hollow out Earth and use it as a spaceship, for... no actual reason). But some things... some things go so far outside the rules the world has set for itself that you can't credit them.

--------------------
Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

 - Posted      Profile for Wood   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The point being that the moon egg thing is not even in the top ten stupidest things in Doctor Who.

OK, top five.

--------------------
Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

 - Posted      Profile for Hedgehog   Email Hedgehog   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
You know, with all the complaints about the moon-egg and the hatchling laying another equal size moon egg, I was tempted to mention the equally utterly silly Earth-towing episode. Glad to see that somebody else brought it up. Now all I need is somebody to discuss the Tinkerbell Doctor episode and I can yell Bingo!

--------------------
"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

 - Posted      Profile for Dafyd   Email Dafyd   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
Straw poll (cos I wasn't here when this happened): how did people feel about the TARDIS towing Earth home at the end of Journey's End?

Face palm. To be fair it wasn't my least favourite thing about that sequence.

I am told that the TARDIS first tows a small planet in Creature from the Pit, a latish Tom Baker serial, so there is a classic era precedent. Obviously if something happened in the classic era of Doctor it can't be silly, and that goes double if it's latish Tom Baker.

--------------------
we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

 - Posted      Profile for balaam   Author's homepage   Email balaam   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
Straw poll (cos I wasn't here when this happened): how did people feel about the TARDIS towing Earth home at the end of Journey's End?


Even in a programme full of stupid things that was stupid. But tying things up in a stupid way has been in Who from the start. We have to accept it.

Put me down as disappointed but not disapproving.

--------------------
Last ever sig ...

blog

Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

 - Posted      Profile for Ariel   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
Straw poll (cos I wasn't here when this happened): how did people feel about the TARDIS towing Earth home at the end of Journey's End?

Load of rubbish, but it is a kids' programme and you have to expect some "With one bound, Jack was free" type fantasy elements.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275

 - Posted      Profile for The Rogue   Email The Rogue   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I thought they only put it in so that they could have eight people flying the Tardis which was fun. And rather cheesily self-congratulatory.

--------------------
If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?

Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498

 - Posted      Profile for doubtingthomas     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
(to return to the present)

Wow. Someone remembered how to write Doctor Who.
And the characterization starts to pay off.
...and did I spot a Hartnell mannerism in the corridor outside CLara's cabin?

Just first impressions. I'll be more coherent later, no doubt, although not necessarily making more sense...

Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged
Stumbling Pilgrim
Shipmate
# 7637

 - Posted      Profile for Stumbling Pilgrim   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
(...and did I spot a Hartnell mannerism in the corridor outside CLara's cabin?

To go with the jelly babies, bubble wrap and 'are you my mummy?', no doubt! (and probably a load more I missed)

Enjoyed Frank Skinner, I was quite sorry when he turned down a job on the Tardis!

--------------------
Stumbling in the Master's footsteps as best I can.

Posts: 492 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498

 - Posted      Profile for doubtingthomas     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stumbling Pilgrim:
quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
(...and did I spot a Hartnell mannerism in the corridor outside CLara's cabin?

To go with the jelly babies, bubble wrap and 'are you my mummy?', no doubt! (and probably a load more I missed)

Enjoyed Frank Skinner, I was quite sorry when he turned down a job on the Tardis!

I loved the jelly baby case!
The Hartnell reference stood out, though, since it is less common and was quite subtle (as I'm sure were all the ones I missed...).

Agreed on Frank Skinner as well! Also reminded us (after so much focus on Clara) that the Doctor is perfectly happy to respect the opinion of human whom he has never met before, if that person has a brain and is not afraid to use it.

--------------------
'We are star-stuff. We are the Universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out'
Delenn (Babylon 5)

Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

 - Posted      Profile for Wood   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
First Series Eight episode I've unequivocally loved.

--------------------
Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
tessaB
Shipmate
# 8533

 - Posted      Profile for tessaB   Email tessaB   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Totally loved it. Jellybabies in a cigarette case! Seconding the slight feeling of disappointment that Frank Skinner didn't take the job. Would have loved a bit more of that mix!

--------------------
tessaB
eating chocolate to the glory of God
Holiday cottage near Rye

Posts: 1068 | From: U.K. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291

 - Posted      Profile for M.   Email M.   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Brilliant!

M.

Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357

 - Posted      Profile for Justinian   Email Justinian   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
quote:
Originally posted by Justinian:
Going back to the moon changing mass, there is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with that for Dr. Who. Even the moon being a big egg would have been a perfectly acceptable premise. Both are massively counterfactual and against existing Whoniverse lore - but so is the premise to about half of Dr Who plots. What was difficult to swallow was the combination of the two. Either, yes. Both? Wtf. (If the moon had been changing mass because things were coming through from E-space or whatever that would have made enough sense to not cause trouble).

Straw poll (cos I wasn't here when this happened): how did people feel about the TARDIS towing Earth home at the end of Journey's End?

Towing. Earth.

I still have to type it twice to believe I saw it. I mean, Who has been stupid scientifically from the beginning (Dalek Invasion of Earth, 1964: Daleks intend to hollow out Earth and use it as a spaceship, for... no actual reason). But some things... some things go so far outside the rules the world has set for itself that you can't credit them.

Honestly? Yes. In a way that Dalek Invasion of Earth doesn't.

As I said, I'd have accepted The Moon as an Egg. I'd have accepted The Moon Changes Mass. The problem was The Moon is an egg and changes mass for no particular reason.

You need to work hard to find a specific counterfactual premise, however risible (such as the Daleks hollowing out the earth for a spaceship) that doesn't work. And you then take the story from there.

There are two problems that break sci-fi with a counterfactual premise. The first is the second, unrelated counterfactual. If the moon had very specifically changed by the weight of the creature going to hatch and it had been delivered 12 years ago from E-space (hence the extra mass). The second is "No-selling" - not taking the premises seriously within the setting. And they did a lot of the first and a little of the second in the episode.

As for the episode we've just had? I'll have to see the finale to find out (which is where just about all the RTD seasons fell over), but I think this is shaping up to be the single best season of NuWho.

--------------------
My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.

Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.

Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458

 - Posted      Profile for Sparrow   Email Sparrow   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Thought it was fantastic. I was almost scared to watch it, as I have missed the last 4 or so due to being away and have seen such a lot of negative comments here about the last few episodes.

--------------------
For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Posts: 3149 | From: Bottom right hand corner of the UK | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Athrawes
Ship's parrot
# 9594

 - Posted      Profile for Athrawes   Email Athrawes   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Well, I enjoyed that. I wonder if Missy was responsible for Gus. Oh, and I loved Clara's dress...

--------------------
Explaining why is going to need a moment, since along the way we must take in the Ancient Greeks, the study of birds, witchcraft, 19thC Vaudeville and the history of baseball. Michael Quinion.

Posts: 2966 | From: somewhere with a book shop | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

 - Posted      Profile for Schroedinger's cat   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Murder on the Orient Express, combined with a monster that people can only see for 66 seconds before they die? Brilliant.

--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275

 - Posted      Profile for The Rogue   Email The Rogue   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I've pretty much enjoyed this series although a couple of bits have irritated me. There's a lot of comments here which show that it hasn't been universally enjoyed and yet even the most disappointed people keep watching. To me that says something positive about the whole programme. We keep on watching in the hope of picking up some true gold, whether from odd comments we notice, scenes which make us say wow or a whole show that causes our hosiery to re-locate.

Do many other shows have such a fan-base?

--------------------
If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?

Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

 - Posted      Profile for orfeo   Author's homepage   Email orfeo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
That was pretty good. At first I thought it was merely okay - mostly because the only reason for it to be the Orient Express in space was so they didn't have to do any location filming.

(A woman asking whether there's a "fancy dress" thing is slightly odd when a bunch of people are dressed in BBC's period finest while travelling in space thousands of years in the future.)

But it definitely built as it went. There were some fine character moments, and it stuck with its main premise and fulfilled it. Instead of stuffing far too many ideas into the available time, like last week, it tackled just two - the monster and the Doctor-Clara relationship - and so it had time to deal with them in a satisfying way.

It's been pretty rare in recent times to feel like I actually FOLLOWED how the Doctor solved the week's mystery. I mean, it still required clever leaps and things the audience was unlikely to think of, but it actually felt like he was legitimately in a position to arrive at the answer.

So yeah, while I wouldn't rate this as the best episode of the season, I'm giving it a definite thumbs up.

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

 - Posted      Profile for orfeo   Author's homepage   Email orfeo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Hmm. At the end of his review, Philip Sandifer points out a recurring theme of 'broken soldiers/machinery'.

When you think about it, it's definitely throughout the season. I can think of 5 episodes immediately that fit into that category. The only ones that don't explain themselves in those terms straight away (for me) are 'Hide' and 'Kill the Moon', but then I realised there was plenty of soldier talk in 'Hide'.

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

 - Posted      Profile for Wood   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Not gonna lie, my expectations were really low, given the poor quality of Series 8 so far. I was expecting yet another rehash of old ideas (this time a rerun of the Titanic episode). But what this story reminded me of was a compressed version of Hinchcliffe and Holmes era classics like Pyramids of Mars, or Robots of Death.

Back then, of course, you'd have had five minutes of Perkins on his own figuring out something was wrong before meeting the Doctor (and wasn't Perkins classic Who supporting cast?) and a lot of this was reduced to shorthand, but the more I think about it, the more I think it's not just the best Series 8 episode by a country mile, but probably somewhere in my top ten of best new series episodes. Absolutely adored it.

Also, sadly, absolutely can't show my two older kids, because that mummy is high octane nightmare fuel.

--------------------
Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

 - Posted      Profile for Penny S     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Hmm. At the end of his review, Philip Sandifer points out a recurring theme of 'broken soldiers/machinery'.

When you think about it, it's definitely throughout the season. I can think of 5 episodes immediately that fit into that category. The only ones that don't explain themselves in those terms straight away (for me) are 'Hide' and 'Kill the Moon', but then I realised there was plenty of soldier talk in 'Hide'.

The moment the mummy saluted immediately brought back the moment when Danny did the same. And I had a horrible feeling that the mummy might have been Danny. Not all soldiers have had that sort of salute, have they?

No Missy picking up the dead on this one. Are we supposed to assume now that this is happening (I thought the "expert" and the captain were set up for it) even if we don't see it?

Agree with bringing back Perkins.

Interesting the way that Gus was running things in an echo of the way that the Dr ran things in the bank heist. While being completely immoral in his use of people. Some of whom were not there for being advisors on solving the mummy problem, nor were holograms.

Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068

 - Posted      Profile for Pine Marten   Email Pine Marten   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
By far the best ep so far (and yes, I thought it would be a Titanic rerun too). And when Perkins turned up I immediately thought fondly of Bernard Cribbins (who was 'Perks' in The Railway Children) and how wonderful Wilf had been in Tennant's era.

I desperately want Perkins to be the next companion - and please not Courteney, who I want to slap.

A scary-looking mummy, too, a great nightmare monster.

--------------------
Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde

Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

 - Posted      Profile for Wood   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Hmm. At the end of his review, Philip Sandifer points out a recurring theme of 'broken soldiers/machinery'.

When you think about it, it's definitely throughout the season. I can think of 5 episodes immediately that fit into that category. The only ones that don't explain themselves in those terms straight away (for me) are 'Hide' and 'Kill the Moon', but then I realised there was plenty of soldier talk in 'Hide'.

Listen, you mean?

--------------------
Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

 - Posted      Profile for Penny S     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Just read that review - what is the reference the bubble wrap is making?
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

 - Posted      Profile for balaam   Author's homepage   Email balaam   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
First Series Eight episode I've unequivocally loved.

Not Listen as well?

There have been things to enjoy in all the episodes, so I would say there have been no bad episodes, and two thoroughly good ones.

The problem with Doctor Who is we have too high expectations. To in order to keep the tension in the programme going there is a tendency to have short and unsatisfactory conclusions — but that's the Classic series for you, we should not expect NuWho to be different.

Back to last night, does anyone else think there was more than a little HAL 9000 about GUS?

--------------------
Last ever sig ...

blog

Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

 - Posted      Profile for orfeo   Author's homepage   Email orfeo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Hmm. At the end of his review, Philip Sandifer points out a recurring theme of 'broken soldiers/machinery'.

When you think about it, it's definitely throughout the season. I can think of 5 episodes immediately that fit into that category. The only ones that don't explain themselves in those terms straight away (for me) are 'Hide' and 'Kill the Moon', but then I realised there was plenty of soldier talk in 'Hide'.

Listen, you mean?
Whoops. Yes. I've called it the wrong thing more than once in recent weeks (including in my head), because of course the creatures (if there were any) were hiding.

You'd think I'd get it right when I think it's the best episode of the season.

[ 12. October 2014, 13:30: Message edited by: orfeo ]

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

 - Posted      Profile for Wood   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
See, Listen was pretty good, but it's basic thematic underpinning, that there's a scary thing but actually there isn't anything to be scared of, was done with Hide, and done slightly better. If that basic twist hadn't been done last year in an episode with a similar title, Listen would be higher in my reckoning.

But Listen is second best in my book.

--------------------
Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

 - Posted      Profile for Wood   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Just read that review - what is the reference the bubble wrap is making?

Ark in Space [Smile]

--------------------
Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

 - Posted      Profile for Schroedinger's cat   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
Back to last night, does anyone else think there was more than a little HAL 9000 about GUS?

"Can you open the pod bay doors please GUS?"

Yes there was. Depressurising the kitchen was very HAL.

--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357

 - Posted      Profile for Justinian   Email Justinian   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
See, Listen was pretty good, but it's basic thematic underpinning, that there's a scary thing but actually there isn't anything to be scared of, was done with Hide, and done slightly better. If that basic twist hadn't been done last year in an episode with a similar title, Listen would be higher in my reckoning.

But Listen is second best in my book.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one I'm afraid. Hide was close to a basic "Silurian Plot" - that of the other failing to communicate and this leading to fear and disaster.

Listen, on the other hand, may just have been a first for Dr Who. One where there was no monster at all. And it was incredibly creepy because of that.

Actually, that's not quite true about Listen - but I haven't spotted anyone else pick this up. The Monster on the Bed? Just for a second I saw a flash of a Silent/Confessor reflected in the window. Which means that we have an entire new story laden with pathos captured in just that scene. A poor orphan who literally could not be remembered by anyone at the orphanage unless it was hiding under the blanket or otherwise couldn't be seen. Adults who have seen the moon landing will try to kill the poor child. And, worse yet, even when the kid thinks they have found a way to communicate, even Rupert/Danny won't remember.

--------------------
My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.

Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.

Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

 - Posted      Profile for orfeo   Author's homepage   Email orfeo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
See, Listen was pretty good, but it's basic thematic underpinning, that there's a scary thing but actually there isn't anything to be scared of, was done with Hide, and done slightly better. If that basic twist hadn't been done last year in an episode with a similar title, Listen would be higher in my reckoning.

But Listen is second best in my book.

Nope. Like Justinian I don't agree. "Hide" had the makings of a fine episode, but the last couple of minutes of it felt like a massive (and massively disappointing) rug-pull, in a period of time when the show seemed to absolutely insist on not being dark or sad. We couldn't have a monster be a monster. It was a happy ending that felt cheap, not hard won. I just about threw a cushion at the TV in frustration.

"Listen" does not have anything like the same feel. I don't think it even has the same themes. I think you're confusing themes with plot points.

[ 12. October 2014, 15:10: Message edited by: orfeo ]

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

 - Posted      Profile for orfeo   Author's homepage   Email orfeo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Justinian:
Listen, on the other hand, may just have been a first for Dr Who. One where there was no monster at all. And it was incredibly creepy because of that.

It's arguable that 'Midnight' is similar, as much of the action is driven by fearful humans rather than anything alien. The monster is us...

But it's still not quite the same.

Just felt like mentioning 'Midnight', because THAT for me is one of the scariest, creepiest episodes of the series. [Big Grin] avid Tennant's Doctor, who tends to march into situations and take them over with a bit of a confident swagger, can't get people to cooperate and then becomes the victim. The look on his face as he's reduced to echoing another's words is truly terrified.

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

 - Posted      Profile for Kelly Alves   Email Kelly Alves   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
"Midnight" was incredible. An acting tour-de-force, and one of those creepy " human nature is the enemy" plots straight out of an old Rod Serling script.

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

 - Posted      Profile for Wood   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
We're gonna have to agree to disagree about Listen and Hide but I'm with you a hundred percent with Midnight. For my money, Davies's best episode.

--------------------
Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357

 - Posted      Profile for Justinian   Email Justinian   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Midnight I found ... intense. It was a spectacular episode with incredible acting and amazing writing.

At the same time it demonstrated why it was time for RTD to leave. It, Turn Left, and Torchwood: Miracle Day. And Donna's finale. But most of all Midnight. Once you start actively deconstructing the series you're playing with you run the run the risk of taking away all the magic and being left with ... the deconstructed ruins.

Midnight had the potential to be to Dr Who what Watchmen is to Superhero comics. Superb, genre defining, and something that caused massive long term problems by people trying to recapture. And I am very glad that RTD knew that it was time to hand over. (And I'm equally glad that after a poor S6 and a S7 I don't yet own on DVD Dr Who is coming back to form).

--------------------
My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.

Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.

Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

 - Posted      Profile for Kelly Alves   Email Kelly Alves   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
(tangent continued) Keep your freaking Daleks, Lesley Sharp was the scariest monster of them all.

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

 - Posted      Profile for Dafyd   Email Dafyd   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
We're gonna have to agree to disagree about Listen and Hide but I'm with you a hundred percent with Midnight. For my money, Davies's best episode.

I'd say it's one of Davies' three best. It's also the one that least offends my subjective aesthetic preferences.

I actually think Gridlock is a better episode for a complicated version of better in which having a finish that belongs with your start and your middle, and succeeding to do what you set out to do, are not components.

Objectively speaking, I think Love and Monsters is as good as Midnight, if your subjective aesthetic preferences are able to stomach the Absorbaloff, the paving slab, and Marc Warren (my subjective aesthetic preferences can stomach none of them).

That said, I'd worry about anyone who said Midnight was their favourite Doctor Who story - because really it's a claim that the ethical basis behind Doctor Who doesn't work in the real world.

--------------------
we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

 - Posted      Profile for Wood   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Hey Dafyd, did you read my essay in the SCM mag about how problematic Gridlock was in religious terms?

--------------------
Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7

 - Posted      Profile for Wood   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
It's a fair comment that Midnight shouldn't ever be repeated. It worked because it took Doctor Who ad a concept apart.

There is a school of thought that one of the many reasons Doctor Who lost its way in the mid 1980s was because another story that broke the mould had been so successful that the production team wanted to bottle the lightning again, and failed over and over, without realising that part of the reason The Caves of Androzani was great is because it deconstructed Doctor Who and shouldn't have been repeated.

--------------------
Narcissism.

Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged



Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  ...  10  11  12 
 
Post new thread  Post a reply Close thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
follow ship of fools on twitter
buy your ship of fools postcards
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
 
  ship of fools