|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Doctor Who: Fall 2014
|
The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
|
Posted
I've said this before but we had another brilliant Dr Who simple-but-terrifyingly-scary bit when the skeleton bodies just turned their heads to follow Clara and she didn't see. Youngest Rogueling chose that moment to hide behind a cushion (our sofa is jammed up against the wall).
--------------------
If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
I wish we hadn't been told it was the Cybermen in advance. Then the windows on the doors would have been a lot more effective.
I agree. Over the new Who series the BBC has put far too many spoilers in its trailers.
--------------------
If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Clint Boggis
Shipmate
# 633
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
quote:
I liked the bit where the Dr said that betrayal wasn't enough to end the way he felt about Clara.
1 Cor 11 ; 23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread ..........
Exactly
When Clara (in the TARDIS) realised she'd betrayed The Doctor and thought he'd give up on her and didn't expect him to help he specifically said ~ "you think I care so little for you that betrayal makes any difference to me?" Wow!
[ 02. November 2014, 19:24: Message edited by: Clint Boggis ]
Posts: 1505 | From: south coast | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I always find Cybermen a bit of a let-down. They seem to spend most of their time just striding around saying "Delete!" or "Upgrade!" which is a bit hard to take seriously.
But overgrown pepper-pots with anger management problems can be taken seriously?
Doctor Who is not meant to be taken seriously.
--------------------
Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Stumbling Pilgrim
Shipmate
# 7637
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
Did anyone else laugh when Dr Chang read the Doctor's psychic paper and said 'why is there all this swearing?' ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Yes!!
So much to think about I'm still processing it all - loads that was very good and, as others have said, some quite disturbing stuff. All the flipping between dream and reality near the beginning made me wonder how much of what I was seeing I could trust. And I did wonder why he didn't just explain that last time somebody tried to prevent a road accident it caused a lot more trouble than just a paradox loop! (although then there was the crossing-timelines thing as well)
Regarding the windows and the logo, I thought from the beginning that shape must be significant, but I didn't get it until it was literally staring me in the face. Cybermen are much better looking than they used to be, aren't they?
Just watched back to confirm what I thought I caught a glimpse of - the book she took a Tardis key out of was 'The Time Traveller's Wife' - which for some reason pleases me absurdly!
--------------------
Stumbling in the Master's footsteps as best I can.
Posts: 492 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
Doctor Who is not meant to be taken seriously.
True. Although there's a difference between being serious, and wanting to be taken seriously.
I think at its best Doctor Who is serious. Just not on that level. Sometimes in order to be serious you need to be silly. Or to put it another way, what's the point of being grown-up if you can't be childish sometimes.
[ 02. November 2014, 21:13: Message edited by: Dafyd ]
--------------------
we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
I wish we hadn't been told it was the Cybermen in advance. Then the windows on the doors would have been a lot more effective.
I agree. Over the new Who series the BBC has put far too many spoilers in its trailers.
I am glad I had forgotten about that particular spoiler (despite it being in the Radio Times), although it may have helped subconsciously: I got the hint when the lift-doors closed, with the symbol on either side like eyes. IMHO, This was by far the best introduction the Cyberman have had in a NuWho story!
Also good to know that Missy really is what her name implies... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
--------------------
'We are star-stuff. We are the Universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out'
Delenn (Babylon 5)
Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
|
Posted
Well, perhaps I should give it another chance. After all, Paul Cornell--who is definitely a believing Christian himself--didn't seem to feel like he was hampered writing for it. I just don't want to grit my teeth at the sort of thing which Star Trek: The Next Generation got into from time to time. (And to be fair, it is based on one interview with that guy--it's been quoted ad nauseam since then but it's not like he brings it up all the time.)
--------------------
My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:
Well, perhaps I should give it another chance.
Davies is pretty poor at sticking any actual critique of religion. You just the odd jibe from time to time, but you can mostly ignore them. It's not even a majority of episodes. (He also has an unreasonable fondness for religious imagery, which sometimes gets away from him.)
Davies left when David Tennant left. Moffat took over. Opinions differ as to whether this was a good thing. (I think it was.) Moffat is equally an atheist, but less of a knee-jerk atheist. There's only one episode under Moffat where I think there's knee-jerk criticism of religion going on. There's another powerful anti-religious episode, but it's not knee-jerk. Possibly the one showing at the moment is anti-religion. That's out of about forty episodes by now.
--------------------
we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Stumbling Pilgrim
Shipmate
# 7637
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
I got the hint when the lift-doors closed, with the symbol on either side like eyes.
Yes, me too.
quote:
Also good to know that Missy really is what her name implies...
And oh, the layers of meaning that gives to the (now apparently obligatory at least once per series) snog-the-Doctor moment!
--------------------
Stumbling in the Master's footsteps as best I can.
Posts: 492 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
I wish we hadn't been told it was the Cybermen in advance. Then the windows on the doors would have been a lot more effective.
I agree. Over the new Who series the BBC has put far too many spoilers in its trailers.
This isn't just trailers, which I try my very best to avoid, but pre-series publicity and features in various TV guides in the last week letting the cat out of the bag about the Big Bad. Which is a shame, because those windows were brilliantly conceived and should have been a really clever clue, instead of a restatement of what we'd already been told before even sitting down to watch it.
It was brave to start with such a sudden and dramatic event, and it was pretty well done - I actually said "Oh, he's not going to walk out into the traffic is he?" even before the first pause in the conversation, because the cars were just visible enough in the foreground. But it was still gut-wrenching, even if it was half-expected.
As ever, a lot will depend on the second part/resolution. It felt as if there was a lot still to be explained, which will determine how the story stands up. And we still have Orson Pink to explain. I was wondering whether Clara would sacrifice herself to save Danny in some way, but that seems to leave the same problem in another form. I'm certain that Orson's future existence will have been considered, and will be relevant, because he was such a gratuitous addition to that episode. (I've been assuming that they haven't, um, you know, because I don't get the impression that their relationship has got that far, but I may be wrong on that.)
There was more than a hint of Army of Ghosts about the conclusion, especially the rehashing of the line that it isn't an invasion, it's a victory. I was slightly disappointed at Missy's identity, as it seemed like the obvious guess from the start, but obvious can be a good thing as well. The three words were dark and shocking, but you can't say you weren't warned, and they're appropriate to the tone of both the episode and the series. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a lot more to that than meets the eye. Is "Danny" really Danny, for example? Bear in mind the conversation they were having when he died, and compare with his inappropriate repetition of "I love you" instead of answering the question. It doesn't ring true for me, unless there's something else going on. Maybe "Danny" is just a crude reconstruction from his dying thoughts, and not comparable with the living person.
I'm sure it will reward another viewing, and hopefully yield more information.
--------------------
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
There were problems with too many spoilers way back in the 1960s and early 70s. The Radio Times managed to give away a couple of surprises.
Also... can I just emphasise how awesome Michelle Gomez is? I sincerely hope she manages to stick around for repeat appearances in the future.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
|
Posted
I think the Cybermen were always going to be "spoiled" simply because of the location filming. Having a bunch of them walk down the steps of St Paul's could hardly not get noticed!
On the subject of atheism in the show, Russell Davies has often been called "the world's worst atheist", The poor darling tries his best, but he just keeps writing (or commissioning) stories that are wide open to interpretation as spiritual allegories. I think Moffat is much more subtle. His handling of the military Church in Matt Smith's stories was very clever, and not unsympathetic. Father Octavian was an excellent character, for instance.
One of Moffat's problems is that he just can't win. Here we are criticising his atheism, while on some fan sites there's a lot of argument about the alleged "pro-life" subtext in this week's episode, and also in Kill the Moon. I think he was being very careful this week not to debunk the idea of an afterlife - it's obvious now that the Nethersphere is all part of Missy's cunning plan. (I can't figure out how it relates to the Cybermen though - surely they don't need people's minds to be preserved somewhere when their bodies are "converted"? Perhaps she has something else in store for the inhabitants of the Nethersphere....)
--------------------
"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
|
Posted
Well, blimey. I don't even remember any windows let alone what shape they were.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Well, blimey. I don't even remember any windows let alone what shape they were.
Memory going? It does that as you get older......
--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
|
Posted
I think I was too busy wondering what the Nethersphere was and whether it was the inside of a gigantic computer where "dead" people had been stored - and whether Danny was genuine.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
|
Posted
I, for one, am not convinced Danny died at all. Off-screen deaths always make me suspect that some sort of substitution went on. In fact, I am doubtful that any of the beings we saw in the Nethersphere were truly dead--just snatched by teleporter at the last moment so that even they think they are dead...and so agree to submit to Cyberman conversion.
[Put aside for the moment why that would be necessary--past Cybermen have never needed consent.]
It is also why the 3 words thing doesn't bother me--of course the Cybermen would be opposed to that and would want to convince people not to do it!
[But, again, why would they bother--they never looked for consent to convert before.]
There is still a question that remained unanswered despite being asked a couple times: what does "3W" mean? Can anybody think of anything that begins "www"? ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
--------------------
"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
|
Posted
In addition, I'm still not quite sure that Missy is the Master. At the very least, I'm expecting more revelations in the final episode.
--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
I thought Danny chose not to give Clara anything that would identify him as truly himself because of what he said before - there was only one way for her to join him, and he didn't want her to take that way.
I don't think people were teleported, as we saw the policeman's hand lying on the ground after he was killed. And he had both hands when being briefed by Seb.
If Missy isn't the Master, who could she be who would know about him, have two hearts, and Timelord technology? Why would the Rani pretend to be the Master? She did behave rather like Simm in hyper mode.
On another site, I was curious about the reaction of male commenters to the transgender thing. He's male! He can't be female! Of both the Master and, potentially, the Doctor. Apart from the fact that we now live in an age when that sort of thing is not unknown any more, it did seem to me that the lads were claiming that maleness is of greater importance than, for them, being human. For the characters, obviously, being Gallifreyan. I don't think, for myself, I would put being female above being a human being. But maybe I'm odd. The fierceness of the comments reminded me of the little boys who make drama queen* performances of moving away from a girl if they have to sit next to her in school. *(Drama king doesn't work the same, does it?)
[ 03. November 2014, 18:22: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
|
Posted
Romana was dumped in an alternate universe (IIRC, no doubt someone will rush to correct me if I've got that wrong) and could possibly have found her way back. I doubt it's her though.
I did wonder whether it might have been River in some new guise but think that unlikely.
From what I remember there were hints of the Master possibly resurfacing in a female form right at the end of his last episode. I can't quite remember all the details now, but something to do with a ring that rolled to the feet of a mysterious woman after he'd spontaneously combusted, or something?
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
I think that was sorted. Someone used the ring to call him up for some reason.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
|
Posted
Some of us discussed the possibility of a female Doctor before the last regeneration. Emma Thompson was a wonderful suggestion.
--------------------
'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop
Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
I wish we hadn't been told it was the Cybermen in advance. Then the windows on the doors would have been a lot more effective.
I DIDN'T know it in advance it was the Cybermen. I was very proud of myself for working it out so quickly!
--------------------
For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Posts: 3149 | From: Bottom right hand corner of the UK | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
From what I remember there were hints of the Master possibly resurfacing in a female form right at the end of his last episode. I can't quite remember all the details now, but something to do with a ring that rolled to the feet of a mysterious woman after he'd spontaneously combusted, or something?
We already had him come back from that. He was last seen in a death-duel with Rassilon as Gallifrey was swept back into its proper place rather than come crashing down on Earth ("The End of Time", IIRC). At the time, of course, we figured that meant he died when Gallifrey was destroyed because he was now on the planet at the end of the Time War. But, of course, now we know that Gallifrey was not destroyed but shunted off into some side universe (or whatever). So there is plenty of ways for him to have escaped from all that.
And there were comments dropped in episodes a couple years back that seemed to acknowledge that Time Lords could change genders in regeneration.
--------------------
"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Byron
Shipmate
# 15532
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
[...] On another site, I was curious about the reaction of male commenters to the transgender thing. He's male! He can't be female! Of both the Master and, potentially, the Doctor. Apart from the fact that we now live in an age when that sort of thing is not unknown any more, it did seem to me that the lads were claiming that maleness is of greater importance than, for them, being human. For the characters, obviously, being Gallifreyan. I don't think, for myself, I would put being female above being a human being. But maybe I'm odd. The fierceness of the comments reminded me of the little boys who make drama queen* performances of moving away from a girl if they have to sit next to her in school. *(Drama king doesn't work the same, does it?)
Not just male commentators, although they do seem to be in the majority. Folk get emotional over gender and gender norms. Show's internal logic serves up a time traveling alien who can regenerate every cell in their body, of course switching gender is feasible. Only thing to do is push on & ignore 'em. They'll come around. Well, most of 'em.
As for the ep, fantastic (fantastic!), especially the primal horror of the "3W." Season to date's been uneven, from the sublime ("Listen") to the absurd ("Kill the Moon"/""In the Forest of the Night"), with its average kept up by a solid action-adventure double tap from Jamie Mathieson. Show would benefit from a consistent tone, and it could do a lot worse than horror. Could be a welcome return to all the seventies gothic. Leather bikinis optional.
Posts: 1112 | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
|
Posted
Even if a Time Lord dies at some point, and has no further regenerations left, it doesn't mean they get to leave the series. Being in possession of a time machine means they could crop up anywhere, before or after the point of their own death.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
There were problems with too many spoilers way back in the 1960s and early 70s. The Radio Times managed to give away a couple of surprises.
Also... can I just emphasise how awesome Michelle Gomez is? I sincerely hope she manages to stick around for repeat appearances in the future.
If you haven't seen it, you should watch Green Wing - Gomez plays the most evil HR person, and it is very funny.
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
It is also why the 3 words thing doesn't bother me
...
There is still a question that remained unanswered despite being asked a couple times: what does "3W" mean?
Bottom quote, please meet top quote which has your answer.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
I, for one, am not convinced Danny died at all. Off-screen deaths always make me suspect that some sort of substitution went on. In fact, I am doubtful that any of the beings we saw in the Nethersphere were truly dead--just snatched by teleporter at the last moment so that even they think they are dead...and so agree to submit to Cyberman conversion.
That thought occurred to me - we saw neither an accident nor his body. There are huge problems with it, but it's the kind of trick I can imagine Moffat pulling. But either way, I'm still having a hard time making sense of the supposed cyberconversion methodology. Roughly, it seems to be:
- Identify someone dying/about to die [BY SOME MEANS]
- Upload their mind in total to the Matrix/Nethersphere [BY SOME MEANS]
- Get them to agree to delete their emotions with a slick sales pitch, rather than just pressing the button for them [FOR REASONS]
- Retrieve their body [BY SOME MEANS], before it's rotted/cremated
- Cyberconvert the body [BY SOME MEANS] even if it's a complete mess
- Reunite mind and body [BY SOME MEANS]
- ???
- PROFIT!
There's no coherent explanation of this that matches the few abductees we've seen so far, even leaving aside the question of why cybermen now need consent. Gretchen could have been teleported out at the point of death, as I think I said at the time, because she was apparently disintegrated. But the PCSO clearly had his body blown to charred pieces, so how do they use those remains in any helpful way? And what about Android Man? How do you go about converting someone like that?
I was idly wondering how many people would have died with bodies (or even minds) that you'd actually want to use. Taking dead people isn't exactly without its problems, and with improving health and longer life expectancy, wouldn't most of the cybermen have brittle bones, artificial hips and an inability to remember things that happened just this morning? Then you have to store all the bodies in that "dark water" (another too-clever idea that doesn't make sense because it was all about creating a spectacle), without anyone noticing these massive vaults full of skeletons. What's wrong with a rapid campaign of forcible conversion in key strategic locations?
--------------------
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
|
Posted
I was told an interesting idea yesterday that Seb is actually the Master. The idea came from the etymology of Sebastian being derived from the Greek sebas meaning awe, fear or dread.
There's also a note from someone familiar with the St Paul's area pointing out that there was a red phone box on screen in a location where there isn't one in real life, the implication being that it's a prop. But why might someone add an extra telephone box into Doctor Who? Could it be the Master's TARDIS?
This then got the hares running looking back over the series to see if they could spot other red phone boxes in shot.
--------------------
I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
|
Posted
Can I just say? - if you don't want some shocks and surprises "spoiled", try to avoid trailers for this week's episode. I saw one this morning, and there's a brilliant moment in it that I'd really rather have seen for the first time when I see the episode.
--------------------
"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
Sipech quote:
This then got the hares running looking back over the series to see if they could spot other red phone boxes in shot.
Did they find any? Can't be bothered to follow suit. I had seen the suggestion that that box was a Tardis, though.
I had also cast my mind over the meaning of Seb, but not bothered with that, either. It occurs that backwards it is the name of an Egyptian deity associated with birth and defending all that is good - not a likely direction. A fat bellied hippo, as I recall.
If Seb were the Master, though, why did Missy evaporate Chang? And why, if all that guff about saving bodies were true, or if people were wanted for Cyberconversion, disintegrate him?
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
|
Posted
I got the Cybermen by the eyes on the door: homages to the Troughton era both then (Tomb of the Cybermen) and with the St Paul's scene (The Invasion).
Good, but chilling at times...
--------------------
"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
ArachnidinElmet
Shipmate
# 17346
|
Posted
In a slight diversion, did anyone catch 1st Doctor episode 'The Aztecs' on the Drama Freeview channel on Sunday? I've not seen much pre-Baker Who, so this was a treat. More theatre than tv, with excellent female characters and a plot that made some sort of sense.
They're going to be broadcasting more older episodes, with a Troughton this coming weekend.
--------------------
'If a pleasant, straight-forward life is not possible then one must try to wriggle through by subtle manoeuvres' - Kafka
Posts: 1887 | From: the rhubarb triangle | Registered: Sep 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068
|
Posted
Yes, I recorded 'The Aztecs' (and some others) when it was on Watch a little while ago. I thought it very good, and was impressed with Barbara's character.
--------------------
Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eigon
Shipmate
# 4917
|
Posted
I must get the Aztecs - I recently saw the French Revolution one, and was impressed with Barbara. When locked in a cell in the Bastille, she immediately started digging an escape tunnel!
--------------------
Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
Posts: 3710 | From: Hay-on-Wye, town of books | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
tessaB
Shipmate
# 8533
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
Some of us discussed the possibility of a female Doctor before the last regeneration. Emma Thompson was a wonderful suggestion.
No, no my friend! The only possible female doctor has to be Helena Bonham Carter! Can you just imagine it for a moment? ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
--------------------
tessaB
eating chocolate to the glory of God
Holiday cottage near Rye
Posts: 1068 | From: U.K. | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
|
Posted
When she was alive I hoped for Maragaret Ruytherford. Or possibly Chaka Kahn.
[ 04. November 2014, 21:40: Message edited by: Robert Armin ]
--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Apart from the fact that we now live in an age when that sort of thing is not unknown any more, it did seem to me that the lads were claiming that maleness is of greater importance than, for them, being human.
Well, to be fair, some of this has to do with the ontology of gender, beyond plumbing issues, so it's not quite as odd a position as it might seem. But the nature of gender is probably more of a Purgatorial topic than one suited for a Dr. Who-centric thread.
--------------------
My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
|
Posted
The day the Doctor turns into a woman is the day I stop watching the series. Having a male lead character works fine, no need to change that.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
|
Posted
Getting back to the plot rather than the Doctor's sexual plumbing, TGG raises a good point about how we've not seen a body. What if the human race has been mentally re-engineered not to expect bodies any more? Or to accept that the Mausoleum is where bodies go, and they don't see anything strange about it? Bit like that Buffy episode where Jonathan has used a spell to make everyone believe that he's amazing and wonderful and all and no-one notices that anything's changed. Or Dawn, for that matter, injected into everyone's memories.
--------------------
Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
quote:
Karl: Liberal Backslider: What if the human race has been mentally re-engineered not to expect bodies any more? Or to accept that the Mausoleum is where bodies go, and they don't see anything strange about it?
The interesting thing is that this is happening in present-day London, where as far as I know we don't have the costume of sending our bodies to 3W. A parallel universe after all?
I'm also leaning towards the teleporter theory. If the Doctor really could raise people from the dead, it would be too much.
quote:
The Rogue: I've said this before but we had another brilliant Dr Who simple-but-terrifyingly-scary bit when the skeleton bodies just turned their heads to follow Clara and she didn't see.
Every time someone passes a statue, a painting or a dummy, I've come to expect it to move. But this time I really didn't see it coming.
Some other thoughts: I thought that the 'it was only all a dream' after the vulcano scene was a bit of a cop-out.
Am I the only one who isn't convinved by the joke that the Doctor didn't get what would happen if swimming pools were made of dark water? Surely after a couple of centuries on earth (and almost marrying Marilyn Monroe no less) he understands a thing or two about human sexuality? It made him look a bit daft.
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
|
Posted
I also didn't get the joke. Skeletons aren't commonly seen to be particlarly sexy.
There's no way Ollie bloody Reeder is the Master.
The bit at the beginning why Clara was agitated in the first place before ringing doesn't appear to have been explained. That and the post-it notes all over the room.
It was a brilliant episode, by the way. Reminds me of watching it as a kid, where I watch it, but am kind of scared to do it. The three words business and the killing of that guy by (what appears to be) the Mistress was pretty grim stuff. Doctor Who isn't made for our comfort.
If she really is the Master, by the way (and I think she is, well, is the person who was known as the Master), it'd suggest that he (using the past tense) identified as a woman. This is more about talk of having actresses, rather, a change in how the Master saw himself and what he wanted to be.
--------------------
The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
I also didn't get the joke. Skeletons aren't commonly seen to be particlarly sexy.
Um, it's not the case that the water means you can see skeletons. The water hides anything non-organic. The reason you could see skeletons was because the only bit left of the dead body was a skeleton. A live body, on the other hand, would have plenty more beside the skeleton...
Dr Chang illustrated this when he put his hand in the water. It didn't show the bones of his arm. It showed his arm minus his watch and his suit.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
Alright. That escaped me.
I was slow to that as well. It was only reading a post here that I realised what I was missing.
Also a bit slow on the cybermen, remembered they were in the trailer and suddenly realised what we couldn't see just in time.
The BBC have also made their comments on the disturbing bits. Broadly, the Dr disagreed with the claim instantly and turns out to be right.
Though also it does make you wonder how likely that the 3 words would be what would be heard. Given how Danny, naturally, seemed to struggle to understand even with the construction of 3W. And given that compared with the alternatives it's a short sharp shock and fairly soon, you'd expect other signals to drown it out.
Even more importantly...has Moffat realised that he's written a really dated episode. No-one under 2 in the UK will ever have seen white noise for real!
Incidently another 3w is of course also known as cyberspace. Don't think it leads anywhere (not sure if it was alluded to subtly)
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
|
Posted
"The BBC have also made their comments on the disturbing bits." Could anyone supply a link to this please? The more I think about the issue, the more I feel those words were terribly insensitive for children who have recently experienced bereavement. Also, I can't help wondering if any funeral plans this week got changed at the last minute.
--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
There's also a note from someone familiar with the St Paul's area pointing out that there was a red phone box on screen in a location where there isn't one in real life, the implication being that it's a prop. But why might someone add an extra telephone box into Doctor Who? Could it be the Master's TARDIS?
Interesting. I've just watched the Doctor Who Extra on the BBC website, and in one shot you can see props people wheeling a red phone box into position. I suppose it might just be set dressing (let's lay it on with a trowel that we're in Old London Town), but still...
On the current Old Series repeats, I missed The Aztecs on Sunday, but I've had the DVD for a few years now. Absolutely one of my favourite stories. There are those who'll tell you it's a nasty piece of 60s cultural imerpialism - European woman thinks she can "fix" a "primitive" culture - but for me that's just part of how delicious it is. It really is Barbara's story, and Jacqueline Hill is superb, but William Hartnell clearly enjoys the Doctor's romantic interlude with Cameca, too. My favourite character, though, has to be Tlotoxl, the High Priest - John Ringham in full-on scenery chewing mode (think Laurence Olivier's Richard III taken to an absurd extreme). If I've got a spare hour and a half over the weekend ....
--------------------
"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ceannaideach
Shipmate
# 12007
|
Posted
Very obscure reference if it is but could the red phone box be a shout out to Inspector Spacetime?
--------------------
"I dream of the day when I will learn to stop asking questions for which I will regret learning the answers." - Roy Greenhilt OOTS
Posts: 199 | From: Shakespeare's County | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view
