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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Circus: Crowd Sourced Chess
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Gamestate - Moves 1-12
13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
I think going on the offensive here is black's best chance.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Doublethink.: 13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
Heh, black has been threatening to do this for four moves now ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
I think White's white-squared bishop is potentially lethal in this position and I would have played Black KxB myself. In fact I did but DT got in first! Switching to play White was a no-brainer!
Wasn't the bishop protected by the Queen at that point?
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Adam.: Wasn't the bishop protected by the Queen at that point?
I think Barnabas was referring to the situation after 12. Qa4. This was the board at that point (once again, cursive means analysis; this is not the actual board).
You can see that the white bishop was not protected by the queen. In fact, I had just been forced to move the queen by your excellent move 10. … Na5.
[ 13. April 2016, 05:35: Message edited by: LeRoc ]
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
LeRoc saved me a post. And on reflection, as he also suggested, it would probably have been better to take the g pawn with the Bishop rather than keep it on the long open diagonal by Bb3. There are some good middle game complications in the current position.
BTW for those who haven't found this out yet, the easiest way to set up a post for the next move is to use the quotes button on the previous post, then edit out the quotes and bold code as well as 'Originally posted by ...'. Then you just have to type in and embolden the next move you want to play.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Barnabas62: it would probably have been better to take the g pawn with the Bishop rather than keep it on the long open diagonal by Bb3.
I think you meant to say "it would have been better to take the g Bishop with the King rather than keep it on the long open diagonal by Bb3"?
I took a bit of a risk with white. After all, I allowed black to do the minor exchange, leaving the white King's pawns in an awkward position. In fact, this is what Doublethink is doing now in move 13.
I think it was advantageous though:- White ended up a pawn ahead; this pawn was taken from the heart of the black King's defence.
- Black can't castle anymore.
- If black did take the Bishop as you suggested here, the black King would have ended up very vulnerably at f7. It would have cost at least a tempo to bring it back to relative safety.
- If black had been a bit careless, there had been a real danger of checkmate at some points. You never know
I thought it was worth the risk.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Nope, I meant that White's 13th move Bb3 might not have been the best, something you suggested yourself on the previous page. Like you, I think White is better, but in the crowd-sourcing spirit I'm going to step back for a few hours to see if another player wants simply to take the Bishop or try something else first.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Barnabas62: Nope, I meant that White's 13th move Bb3 might not have been the best, something you suggested yourself on the previous page.
Ah sorry, I see it now.
quote:
Barnabas62: I'm going to step back for a few hours to see if another player wants simply to take the Bishop or try something else first.
I'm unsure if there is much else white can do here, but I'll give it a couple of hours also.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Let me just give the current board.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Well, White can play Qc4 threatening mate on f7, but that is best met by Qe8. Then taking the Black Bishop is necessary. Not sure whether the White Queen is better on c4; it might be.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
BTW for those who haven't found this out yet, the easiest way to set up a post for the next move is to use the quotes button on the previous post, then edit out the quotes and bold code as well as 'Originally posted by ...'. Then you just have to type in and embolden the next move you want to play.
Still quite fiddly on a phone, though.
Last night, I was thinking that instead of 13: White - Bishop to b3 a far more aggressive move would have been to advance the white knight to f5, protecting the white square bishop and threatening a pincer movement on the king & queen with a later move to e6 (provided black's white square bishop could be either lured or scared away from that particular diagonal).
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
I think you mean Ng5? It does look better.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
I think you mean Ng5? It does look better.
Yes, I did mean that. Typo (which I just typed as tupo). ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Barnabas62: Well, White can play Qc4 threatening mate on f7, but that is best met by Qe8. Then taking the Black Bishop is necessary. Not sure whether the White Queen is better on c4; it might be.
Yes, I'm mulling over that one too.
quote:
Barnabas62: I think you mean Ng5? It does look better.
True. Black could answer with 14. … Bh6 of course, but that Knight is defended. I would take the pawn at g6 after that. White would have avoided the minor exchange, and would have some nice pressure on the pawn at h5
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Gamestate - Moves 1-12
13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4:
Well, I'll bite on the bullet. It's not completely clear but I think the Queen move first is better. And no one else seemed inclined to move.
[ 13. April 2016, 11:38: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Queen to c4 it is! I think there's only one answer that black can give to that, but I'll wait a bit.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
Gamestate - Moves 1-12
13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
Seems the obvious move to defend against the attack along the diagonal at f7.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Gamestate - Moves 1-12
13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop
And that's my three in a row. I'll just kibbitz for the next 24 hours!
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Current board. I'll see if I can come up with something for either black or white.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I had a look at Black. Its Queen and Rook are stuck because of the mate threat. The Knight can't go anywhere easily without losing at least a pawn, the Bishop has nowhere to go to. Er … options are either to move the Rook to d8 where it won't do much good, or do something with pawns?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
How did Black get such an atrocious position, most especially around the King? Can playing Na5 saccing a pawn be any worse than the position as it currently stands?
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Caissa: Can playing Na5 saccing a pawn be any worse than the position as it currently stands?
I've been playing around with Na5 a bit and it does seem to give Black a bit of breathing space. At least if White takes the pawn, the mate threat will be gone, if only for a moment. Shall I just do it?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
Black could always prpe it with Rc8.
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Caissa: Black could always prpe it with Rc8.
True, but maybe I'd want White to take that pawn. Distract their Queen with a snack, so to say. I'm still looking at a couple of options.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
How did Black get such an atrocious position, most especially around the King?
I would identify 9. White - Castles (Kingside): Black - Bishop to g4 as as particularly poor move. It was too rushed. Personally, I'd have followed white's example and castled on the king's side, allowing the rook to cover an advance of the f pawn to break up white's dominance of the centre.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I think Barnabas was referring to the situation after 12. Qa4.
Gotcha. Now, I see.
Off to update my board and then see what to do next.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Sipech: I would identify 9. White - Castles (Kingside): Black - Bishop to g4 as as particularly poor move.
I admit this attack looked rather cool, but it seemed like an awful lot of trouble to go through, just to force a minor exchange and give White a worse pawn position.
What the heck, I can't back down now. My master plan for Black is:
Step 1: Follow Caissa's suggestion and move the Knight
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Black wins!!
Gamestate - Moves 1-12
13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Gamestate - Moves 1-12
13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Pawn to a6
[Start creating some pawn-based pressure on White's attacking lines]
[ 13. April 2016, 15:17: Message edited by: Adam. ]
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Cross post. I think the first move posted should stand as official, so I italicized my post as a 'what might have been.'
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
And I cross-posted with your "Off to update my board and then see what to do next" post. It's good to see so many volunteers wanting to take Black at this point
I agree that a6 would have been the safer (and smarter) move. But I'd just like to try this; it's not like Black has a lot to lose.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
And I cross-posted with your "Off to update my board and then see what to do next" post. It's good to see so many volunteers wanting to take Black at this point
It took me a while to think! Good thing we're not on the clock here...
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
OK, let's do it.
Gamestate - Moves 1-12
13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
16. White - Queen to c7, taking Pawn
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
I'd have played 15. ....a6 for Black too, Adam.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Gamestate - Moves 1-12
13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
16. White - Queen to c7, taking Pawn: Black - Knight to c3 taking Bishop
See? Black can do a fork!
Current board
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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moonlitdoor
Shipmate
# 11707
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Posted
Have you got a clever plan LeRoc ? I don't quite see how Black will avoid losing another pawn as well, either the b or the a.
I haven't mastered the part about needing to copy the previous moves yet so have left the moving to others.
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We've evolved to being strange monkeys, but in the next life he'll help us be something more worthwhile - Gwai
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
moonlitdoor: Have you got a clever plan LeRoc ? I don't quite see how Black will avoid losing another pawn as well, either the b or the a.
Not so clever, but I can keep both of those pawns.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Gamestate - Moves 1-12
13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
16. White - Queen to c7, taking Pawn: Black - Knight to c3 taking Bishop
See? Black can do a fork!
Current board
Last move is Nb3 rather than Nc3, right?
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Fuck, got it wrong again. Thank you.
Gamestate - Moves 1-12
13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
16. White - Queen to c7, taking Pawn: Black - Knight to b3 taking Bishop
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Gamestate - Moves 1-12
13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
16. White - Queen to c7, taking Pawn: Black - Knight to b3 taking Bishop
17. White - Pawn to b3, taking Knight
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Gamestate - Moves 1-12
13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
16. White - Queen to c7, taking Pawn: Black - Knight to b3 taking Bishop
17. White - Pawn to b3, taking Knight: Black - Queen to c8
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Gamestate - Moves 1-12
13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
16. White - Queen to c7, taking Pawn: Black - Knight to b3 taking Bishop
17. White - Pawn to b3, taking Knight: Black - Queen to c8[/b]
18. White - Queen to c8 taking Queen:
I think Adam's move lets me back in. Besides, I'm intrigued by LeRoc's plan. I can see some cunning White responses ....
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
And my three turns are up! I'm sure someone come along to lead Black to victory any moment now.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
Gamestate - Moves 1-12
13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
16. White - Queen to c7, taking Pawn: Black - Knight to b3 taking Bishop
17. White - Pawn to b3, taking Knight: Black - Queen to c8
18. White - Queen to c8 taking Queen (check): Black - Rook takes Queen on c8
Rather an obvious move. Amended the code slightly to show that black was in check.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Gamestate - Moves 1-12
13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
16. White - Queen to c7, taking Pawn: Black - Knight to b3 taking Bishop
17. White - Pawn to b3, taking Knight: Black - Queen to c8
18. White - Queen to c8 taking Queen (check): Black - Rook takes Queen on c8
(Sipech. Rather an obvious move. Amended the code slightly to show that black was in check.
B62. Quite right - sorry)
19. White - Rook to a7, taking Pawn:
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
They're falling into my trap. Gnagnagna …
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
He He! All unknowing - or deliberately? There is this thing called "the move after".
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
No, really there isn't a master plan. As I've said earlier, 15. … : a6 would have been better. I think the best Black could have hoped for after that move was a draw, after a rather long shuffling around with Rooks and Bishops.
Obviously, the current play has removed the mate threat at the cost of a pawn. I'm not sure whether exchanging Queens this way was the best option for White.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
Thinking ahead a bit (not that black's situation is quite so dire yet) do we need some rules about offering draws and resigning?
I would propose that a shipmate can only offer to resign a side, offer a draw or accept a draw if they meet all of the three conditions:
1) they have made at least 3 moves for that side,
2) have the support of at least 2 other shipmates who have also made at least 3 moves for that side,
3) the resignation, offer or acceptance of a draw is not opposed by 2 or more other shipmates who have made 3 or more moves for that side.
In short, you've got to have contributed and have support, but you can be overruled if others reasonably think the game can be continued.
What do you think? Particurly, Doublethink, as you started the game.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I fully support Sipech's effort of finding a way to decide on a draw (although I would have preferred something that involved 19th Century pistols and blindfolds )
I'm not sure whether in the future we'll always have three people that made three moves for a particular side though.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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