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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: U.S. Presidential Election 2016
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
You gotta admire Trump's talent for -always- going for the most shallow critique. He has a real gift for it.
This is long but funny: Post columnist Alexandra Petri's debate summary. The best part is at the very end, when the debate is over and the two candidates chat in the parking lot:
“Wait,” Pence says, sticking his hand through. “Those things you told me — about Donald — were — were they true?”
Kaine nods. “There’s video.”
“Can — can I come with you?”
Kaine pushes the automatic button on the sliding door. “Climb in, champ,” he says. “You want some granola?”
Pence reflexively shrinks away. “No, thanks. Not yet.”
“Sorry,” Kaine adds. “If I’d know I was the one breaking that to you–“
He trails off.
Pence shakes his head. “It’s okay,” he says. “I was bound to find out someday.
[ 05. October 2016, 14:48: Message edited by: Brenda Clough ]
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Tim Kaine is running for Vice President in 2016. Mike Pence is running for president in 2020.
I think that's spot on; Pence has the long game in mind. He's trying to get through this present ordeal as unscathed as possible.
So with the GOP establishment rallying around Pence's performance at last night's debate, the following scenario comes to mind: the party leaders, who have been lukewarm at best on Trump so far, pull a concerted effort in these remaining weeks to get him into office. Then they find a reason to impeach him (which would just force him to resign, not actually go to trial, à la Nixon) so as to put a President Pence in the White House.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
What is frightening about that scenario is that (a) it probably will not be very difficult to find a reason for impeachment.
But worse is (b) one cannot imagine Trump quietly resigning for the good of the commonweal. Wouldn't that make him a Loser? He would fight it, low and dirty, with all his might. Can the country afford the two or three years of tsouris this will take?
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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sabine
Shipmate
# 3861
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Tim Kaine is running for Vice President in 2016. Mike Pence is running for president in 2020.
[/qb]
I think that's spot on; Pence has the long game in mind. He's trying to get through this present ordeal as unscathed as possible.
So with the GOP establishment rallying around Pence's performance at last night's debate, the following scenario comes to mind: the party leaders, who have been lukewarm at best on Trump so far, pull a concerted effort in these remaining weeks to get him into office. Then they find a reason to impeach him (which would just force him to resign, not actually go to trial, à la Nixon) so as to put a President Pence in the White House.
Pence has made his entire political career one of getting through things unscathed (while also doing nothing of much consequence except to enforce what the Tea Party wants him to enforce). He's risen by virtue of being the best boy to ultra conservatives.
sabine
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"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano
Posts: 5887 | From: the US Heartland | Registered: Dec 2002
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
And here's what that means: Pence's record of support for extremist policies
Which is why I find the prospect of a Pence presidency unsettling.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
What I find more disturbing is that Pence will get into bed with an appalling disaster like Trump, merely to foster his own ambition. (You cannot argue he is doing this for fun.)
And he is learning from the top of the ticket how to deny reality. Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes? It's gaslighting.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Why on earth would someone oppose actions reducing prison rape?
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Why on earth would someone oppose actions reducing prison rape?
Because only bad people go to prison and anything that happens to them is deserved and will serve as a warning to others to not be bad.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Forgot to add the money quote, the last paragraph of the endorsement with an added comment by James Fallows:
Our interest here is not to advance the prospects of the Democratic Party, nor to damage those of the Republican Party. If Hillary Clinton were facing Mitt Romney, or John McCain, or George W. Bush, or, for that matter, any of the leading candidates Trump vanquished in the Republican primaries, we would not have contemplated making this endorsement. We believe in American democracy, in which individuals from various parties of different ideological stripes can advance their ideas and compete for the affection of voters. But Trump is not a man of ideas. He is a demagogue, a xenophobe, a sexist, a know-nothing, and a liar. He is spectacularly unfit for office, and voters—the statesmen and thinkers of the ballot box—should act in defense of American democracy and elect his opponent.
***
Will this statement change a single voter’s choice? Let alone make enough any conceivable difference in the decisive Electoral College count?
Maybe not to the first question, and almost certainly not to the second. But that doesn’t matter. It’s the right thing to do. Donald Trump is making this a dark time in our nation’s public life. People who oppose what he has done, and could do, need to stand up for what they believe, and for what is at stake.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
When I click on the front page link to this thread it lands on the first page. It's depressing how much more hopeful it is than this page.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
The most insightful comment I have read lately on Trump voters is that they are not expecting their candidate to make their lives better, but to make the lives of people they don't like worse.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
(sigh) That is a depressing reflection upon the character of Americans. That's what is so lowering about this election season. It's like turning over a rock, and all these icky many-legged things come wriggling out.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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sabine
Shipmate
# 3861
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
What I find more disturbing is that Pence will get into bed with an appalling disaster like Trump, merely to foster his own ambition. (You cannot argue he is doing this for fun.)
And he is learning from the top of the ticket how to deny reality. Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes? It's gaslighting.
He learned to deny a long time ago, before Trump's run for the presidency was even an issue. Denying reality has been a hallmark of Pence's strategy for as long as he has been part of Indiana politics. The other strategy is to do whatever ultra conservative bigwigs and money people want him to do.
In a Pence presidency, there would be quite a few people behind the throne, and he will be happy to oblige. He's their good boy.
sabine
[ 06. October 2016, 14:11: Message edited by: sabine ]
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"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano
Posts: 5887 | From: the US Heartland | Registered: Dec 2002
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
(sigh) That is a depressing reflection upon the character of Americans. That's what is so lowering about this election season. It's like turning over a rock, and all these icky many-legged things come wriggling out.
It may be of some comfort that it is only some, and it is not confined to Americans.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Of course, Donald is taking credit for Pence's performance. What would you expect from a narcissist?
Meanwhile, am watching Red States become pinker, and pink states becoming bluer.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
What is frightening about that scenario is that (a) it probably will not be very difficult to find a reason for impeachment.
But worse is (b) one cannot imagine Trump quietly resigning for the good of the commonweal. Wouldn't that make him a Loser? He would fight it, low and dirty, with all his might. Can the country afford the two or three years of tsouris this will take?
I think it would be totally in character for Dinky to get his butt to the Oval Office, and then resign by saying he cannot disentangle his business interests and he would lose too much money as President and he has a "fiduciary duty" to make as much money as possible. You're not a loser if you quit for a higher-paying job or if you're just too rich to be President, boo-hoo.
(Which is bullshit, of course. Fiduciary duty means you have an obligation to maximize someone else's returns. Maximizing personal profit is not a fiduciary duty. Maximizing your children's inheritance is not a fiduciary duty. And that time when he said, 'Go run the company, kids, I'm doing it for America'? Never happened .... Mike Pence told me so.
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
I saw a news story today indicating that some Trump supporters say they will assume the election is rigged if Clinton wins. What was not clear is what they plan to do: lawsuits, armed rebellion, tax revolt, demonstrations, letters to editors, assassination attempts, grumbling, drunkenness, etc.
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
I saw a news story today indicating that some Trump supporters say they will assume the election is rigged if Clinton wins. What was not clear is what they plan to do: lawsuits, armed rebellion, tax revolt, demonstrations, letters to editors, assassination attempts, grumbling, drunkenness, etc.
I saw a humorous vid that put basically asked if the Democrats can rig elections, why is congress controlled by Republicans?
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
I'm sure a lot of Congressional fingerprints were all over that IRS legislation. (BTW, link?)
I'm sure they were. I don't have a link to a reliable source, and wouldn't know where to start looking on that side of the pond, which is why I didn't provide one.
In any case I was not trying to saddle Hillary with Bill's actions, so much as suggest the tax arrangement that allowed this might not be the monopoly of either side, Republican or Democrat.
An interesting follow-up on this point, courtesy of Business Insider:
quote:
At a rally Tuesday in Arizona, Donald Trump sought to blame Hillary Clinton for his own low tax bills. He asked:
quote:
"After years of failure, she complains about how I've used tax laws of this country to my benefit. Then I ask a simple question: Why didn't she ever try to change those laws so I couldn't use them?"
Well, maybe Clinton didn't just try to change laws Trump used, but actually got them changed, when she was in the Senate in 2002.
According to a Tuesday column by Lee Sheppard in the tax industry publication Tax Notes, Trump may have benefited greatly in the 1990s from a tax loophole related to forgiven debts — a loophole that would have allowed him to deduct business losses on his personal income tax return, even if those losses were actually borne by banks that loaned Trump money and never got it back.
People often use "loophole" to refer to tax deductions they don't like, but this one was a loophole in the true sense of the word: a tax break created by legislative accident.
This loophole was the subject of a 2001 Supreme Court case, Gitlitz v. Commissioner, in which the IRS argued the relevant tax law could not have possibly meant what it appeared to say, which was that business owners could in some cases deduct losses they had not actually borne.
After the IRS lost that case, the loophole was closed by the Job Creation and Worker Assistance Act of 2002, a bill that then Sen. Hillary Clinton voted for and President George W. Bush signed.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
Thanks for that, Croesus. It's the election in microcosm: Trump blusters and screams and complains about how shitty everything is, we gotta get rid of everybody, they're losers and "I know how to fix it", while knowing nothing and cheating everybody. Clinton has shown over and over what she can do within the existing system, but nobody ever hears about it because the details of policy and legislation that actually have direct impact on citizens' lives are BORING and NO FUN. It's so much more fun to make popcorn and gumflap about missing emails and secret speeches and Playboy videos and beauty queens. And small hands.
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
The most insightful comment I have read lately on Trump voters is that they are not expecting their candidate to make their lives better, but to make the lives of people they don't like worse.
That sounds just like our Brexiteers. They won the referendum, and that's what makes me so worried for America and the rest of the world.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
At a rally Tuesday in Arizona, Donald Trump sought to blame Hillary Clinton for his own low tax bills. He asked:
quote:
"After years of failure, she complains about how I've used tax laws of this country to my benefit. Then I ask a simple question: Why didn't she ever try to change those laws so I couldn't use them?"
That's on a par with the man found guilty of murdering his parents who makes an impassioned speech demanding that court extend its mercy to him because he is an orphan.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
At a rally Tuesday in Arizona, Donald Trump sought to blame Hillary Clinton for his own low tax bills. He asked:
quote:
"After years of failure, she complains about how I've used tax laws of this country to my benefit. Then I ask a simple question: Why didn't she ever try to change those laws so I couldn't use them?"
That's on a par with the man found guilty of murdering his parents who makes an impassioned speech demanding that court extend its mercy to him because he is an orphan.
Perhaps because she has never previously held elected office? ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
quote:
Perhaps because she has never previously held elected office? [Disappointed]
What are you talking about? She was a New York senator. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Forgot. Rats. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
I saw a news story today indicating that some Trump supporters say they will assume the election is rigged if Clinton wins. What was not clear is what they plan to do: lawsuits, armed rebellion, tax revolt, demonstrations, letters to editors, assassination attempts, grumbling, drunkenness, etc.
Letters to editors? Would that not indicate literacy?
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemr:
quote:
Perhaps because she has never previously held elected office? [Disappointed]
What are you talking about? She was a New York senator.
She was a United States Senator from New York. There's a difference.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
Some Trump supporters say they will assume the election is rigged if Clinton wins. What was not clear is what they plan to do . . . .
Letters to editors? Would that not indicate literacy?
Tweet, of course. Literacy not required.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
Nick Taman, yes I know she was a US senator, I voted for her twice. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
[ 07. October 2016, 02:47: Message edited by: Nicolemr ]
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
Meanwhile, am watching Red States become pinker, and pink states becoming bluer.
Yes, isn't it beautiful. God is gracious.
AFZ
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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Do we wind up with a lavender country, then?
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Do we wind up with a lavender country, then?
Lavender?
Turning the US purple? This must be part of the Gay Agenda™
AFZ
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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
One of the reasons Clinton is hated is because she is an older woman. An inherently hateful state, if you deep-down believe that all women should be young. For this reason alone her candidacy is good for us. We need to get past this.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
One of the reasons Clinton is hated is because she is an older woman. An inherently hateful state, if you deep-down believe that all women should be young. For this reason alone her candidacy is good for us. We need to get past this.
This is tremendously insightful. It's a special type of misogyny, because women are OK when they are young and fuckable, and liable to get pregnant, and give me sprogs, but then they go off the boil, and they droop, and dry up, and no more sprogs, so fuck off and die, while I get a younger version. (Paraphrase).
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Older women well know this. We notoriously become invisible the moment we are 35. I actually had an editor once tell me that no novel should feature women over 30, because then nobody would want to read it.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
It's one thing I like about neo-paganism, that the idea of the crone has been resurrected as a positive thing. Well, really the Maiden, the Mother and the Crone. Our culture admires the Maiden, cos I can get my hand up her skirt, reveres the Mother, cos of the sprogs, and hopes the dried up hag-Crone will die soon, and leave me all her money.
But of course, the Crone has wisdom, very annoying to callow young men.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
And alas, for fuckable. In the day it was an open secret that older women were randy. Remember the Wife of Bath, or all those women in Shakespeare? Without the worry of becoming pregnant, an older woman would frequently say yes.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
It is true, a number of anti Clinton messages show her as an old hag. Donald Trump mocks her for being tired all the time.
To be fair, though, the anti Trump messages protray him as a yuge (as in huge) orange man with a small mouth.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
And alas, for fuckable. In the day it was an open secret that older women were randy. Remember the Wife of Bath, or all those women in Shakespeare? Without the worry of becoming pregnant, an older woman would frequently say yes.
Or even:
“I was a Flower of the mountain yes when I put the rose in my hair like the Andalusian girls used or shall I wear a red yes and how he kissed me under the Moorish wall and I thought well as well him as another and then I asked him with my eyes to ask again yes and then he asked me would I yes to say yes my mountain flower and first I put my arms around him yes and drew him down to me so he could feel my breasts all perfume yes and his heart was going like mad and yes I said yes I will Yes.”
Ulysses.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
To change the subject ever so slightly, the Beeb has just had an item about voter registration in certain states. One of the Virginias was cited, but not the only one. Registered voters are going to be required to have photo ID. Not everyone has driver licences. Alternative forms of photo ID are available, for various versions of available. As in, from an office only open during working hours and closed for an hour at lunch. And in one case, I seemed to hear that the official (this was recorded by an activist accompanying an applicant) wanted photo ID in order to issue the photo ID. But I might be wrong. Anyway, it wasn't issued.
The people, already registered voters, remember, mostly affected by this tend to be - guess what - black or Latino or - another group was mentioned, but I can't recall what it was.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
The hoopla about photo ID always seems a little over blown to me. I've voted in Ohio since 1968 and always had to show a photo ID. This was a little bit of a problem for the first ten years because I didn't learn to drive until I was 30. So I had to get a state issue photo ID which was very simple to do. When I presented it at the voting booths, it was the only one they had seen. Not everyone has a driver's license but the large majority do. I actually had far more trouble getting a check cashed than I did voting.
As for one of the Virginias, I can't imagine West Virginia's rules mainly affecting black people as its black population only accounts for 3% of the population. Maybe it was the other Virginia.
I just don't think showing ID to vote seems like anything particularly outrageous. If someone has no picture ID at all I can't imagine how he/she manages to do ordinary things like open a bank account, start a new job, receive welfare, get care at the hospital, etc.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I don't think photo ID an outrageous idea - and I think that our system could do with a bit of tightening up. I don't even have to take my voting card (delivered by post a few weeks in advance) to the polling station.
It was the difficulty of getting it that was a problem. As one person said - 'If you work at Walmart, when are you going to be able to get to the office?'
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
On the face of it, it seems reasonable to require a photo ID. But in reality such laws are specifically designed to negatively affect black people, though it tangentially hits other poor people as well.
Here is an article discussing about how.
Republican lawmakers have said, on camera that it is a tactic to reduce votes for Democrats.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Soror Magna
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# 9881
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Posted
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Originally posted by Twilight:
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I just don't think showing ID to vote seems like anything particularly outrageous. If someone has no picture ID at all I can't imagine how he/she manages to do ordinary things like open a bank account, start a new job, receive welfare, get care at the hospital, etc.
It's irrelevant. Those may all be ordinary things for many people, but voting is a right. People who don't have bank accounts or jobs or get welfare or health care still have the right to vote. Nowhere does the constitution say that if you don't have a particular type of ID, you can be subjected to an illegal search or an unusual punishment. Women have the right to vote yet nobody has to prove they're female to vote. Voter ID laws are racist, partisan and deliberately crafted to exclude certain voters, and this is openly admitted by the creators themselves. Whether or not that is outrageous is a matter of opinion, obviously.
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Crœsos
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# 238
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Posted
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Originally posted by Penny S:
The people, already registered voters, remember, mostly affected by this tend to be - guess what - black or Latino or - another group was mentioned, but I can't recall what it was.
Other groups that that come to mind are the elderly (who may have trouble producing an original birth certificate), the poor (who may not have three free hours in the middle of a workday to hang out at the DMV), or rural dwellers (who may live quite a distance from anywhere that can issue an official government photo ID).
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
On the face of it, it seems reasonable to require a photo ID. But in reality such laws are specifically designed to negatively affect black people, though it tangentially hits other poor people as well.
Literacy tests, poll taxes, and other Segregation-era methods of vote suppression were also facially neutral regarding race. It's the "as applied" stuff that you have to pay close attention to, like requiring photo ID to vote and then closing all the places that can issue such an ID in majority black counties.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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