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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: U.S. Presidential Election 2016
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
A little levity Gollum J. Trump wants to make America Precious again.
[we fixssssed it, didn't we, preciousss?]
[ 25. October 2016, 19:51: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Sorry about the messed up code, Safari crashed and it was too late to fix when it thawed.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
An interesting example of the Clinton Rules surfaced yesterday. The Telegraph had reporters pose as representatives of wealthy Chinese citizens who wanted to contribute $2 million to pro-Clinton and pro-Trump SuperPACs. The result?
quote:
The pro-Clinton organisations did not respond to initial approaches. But earlier this month an undercover reporter spoke by telephone to Eric Beach, co-chairman of the pro-Trump Great America PAC, which has the backing of Rudy Giuliani, one of Mr Trump’s most senior advisers, as well as the billionaire's son Eric.
Quick summary, the Great America PAC not only was very interested in receiving the money, despite understanding very clearly that it was from a foreign national (a big no-no in U.S. election law) but was very helpful with ways to launder the contribution through an unrelated 501(c)(4). Go read the whole thing for details.
Now SuperPACs are supposed to be independent entities that theoretically don't coordinate directly with candidates or their official campaigns, so Mr. Trump and his campaign are (allegedly) not directly involved in this. The SuperPAC, on the other hand, was willing to assure the faux contributors that "The Chinese benefactor's generosity would be “whispered into Mr Trump’s ear”", which implies a certain level of coordination.
There hasn't been a lot of media attention on this. But imagine if it had been a Clinton SuperPAC soliciting Chinese money. It seems likely in that case there would be media firestorm and the distinction between the Clinton campaign and Clinton-supporting SuperPACs would be ignored.
We don't actually have to imagine it. Just wind back the clock to examine the phony scandal around the Clinton Foundation's supposed influence peddling, a huge amount of noise and media attention that eventually uncovered . . . nothing. Unlike this Telegraph sting where money laundering techniques were openly discussed the Clinton Foundation seems to have scrupulously followed the rules for charities, publicly documenting both its contributors and expenditures.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Yes, I picked that one up, Croesos. But also this one.
Granted this is fruit of the Wikileaks poisoned tree, it still doesn't look too wonderful for Hillary. This is a telling quote from the Huff Post article.
quote:
Hillary Clinton has repeatedly argued that there is nothing wrong with her family’s arrangements, because no explicit quid pro quo ― that is, exchange of cash for specific political favors ― has surfaced. This argument has troubled many Democrats, who note that the campaign’s defense relies on the weak definition of corruption outlined in the Supreme Court’s 2010 Citizens United decision.
It's a fine line. Not exactly "Caesar's wife".
[ 25. October 2016, 21:09: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
In case there's any doubt about the way Donald Trump thinks, his defence against the accusation of inappropriate handling made by porn star Jessica Drake is "like she hasn't been grabbed before".
Can he possibly get any more rapey? This is exactly the "defence" used by scumbag rapists since time immemorial. "She wore a short skirt. She wasn't a virgin. She said yes to my friend, so why shouldn't she have sex with me? She agreed to sex yesterday, so what's the problem today?"
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
This is exactly the "defence" used by scumbag rapists since time immemorial.
Except for Bill Clinton of course...
Illary handled his defense.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
cliffdweller--
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
People are having great fun claiming and remaking Trump's "nasty woman" comment. (PopSugar) The mug shown says it particularly well, I think.
![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
Some of my fellow clergywomen are rocking the slogan, "That's
Reverend Nasty Woman to you"...
![[Smile]](smile.gif) Should be on a plaque, to go on their office doors.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Trump's capacity for lying has been pretty well exposed.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
How then, would you describe Illary's capacity for lying?
Black belt?
Jedi-master?
When it comes to lying, Trump is a beginner compared to Illary...
Just interjecting that Humpty-Dumpty managed to "believe 6 impossible things before breakfast". Are you trying to beat his record?
Please do not sit on any walls.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
It's been a funny old day. Wikileaks, Obamacare hikes. November 8 is beginning to look a long time ahead.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Re election workers, volunteering, etc.:
Here's San Francisco's "Be A Poll Worker" page. Rules, responsibilities, stipend of $142-195. (One of the main reasons take the job.)
Rules might be different elsewhere.
About 1/2 way down the right-hand side, there's a link to "Poll Worker Resources", which include training materials.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Yes, I picked that one up, Croesos. But also this one.
Granted this is fruit of the Wikileaks poisoned tree, it still doesn't look too wonderful for Hillary. This is a telling quote from the Huff Post article.
quote:
Hillary Clinton has repeatedly argued that there is nothing wrong with her family’s arrangements, because no explicit quid pro quo ― that is, exchange of cash for specific political favors ― has surfaced. This argument has troubled many Democrats, who note that the campaign’s defense relies on the weak definition of corruption outlined in the Supreme Court’s 2010 Citizens United decision.
It's a fine line. Not exactly "Caesar's wife".
That's another good example of the "Clinton Rules" in action. It's not really fruit of Wikileaks poisoned tree since it's been out there since at least last April. (The whole Wikileaks thing seems to be a series of non-revelations or old news premised on the idea that stolen apples are sweeter.)
So to review, the Clinton Foundation (an entity not directly involved in Clinton's election campaign) managed to get Morocco to contribute a lot of money towards AIDS treatment and malaria prevention efforts for which Morocco apparently got nothing in return but a nice speech by Bill Clinton. The contribution was publicly listed at the time, in compliance with American law, as the expenditures of the Clinton Foundation are similarly publicly reported. The net effect being a bunch of people in poor countries got medical treatment they otherwise wouldn't have gotten. What a scandal!!! ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
In contrast, the Great America PAC is directly involved in Trump's election effort, if technically separate from Trump's official campaign. The have allegedly made explicit promises of influence over and gratitude from a future Trump administration in exchange for campaign contributions they know are illegal. (BTW, the "future gratitude" of Donald Trump is a very volatile and short-lived commodity, if past performance is any indicator.) The need to create some kind of false equivalence between these two sets of circumstances is exactly the kind of double standard the term "Clinton Rules" was created to cover.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Wouldn't it be great if the Great America amusement parks sued the Great America PAC for trademark infringement?
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Except for Bill Clinton of course...
Illary handled his defense.
Nice of you to drop back in again.
Do you by any chance have an answer to my question way back on page 111 yet? quote:
Do you have any cogent arguments as to why it would be preferable to see Trump in office as opposed to Clinton?
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Croesos
I did know it was an old story. What was new from the emails was the concern of the advisors over the appearance of the deal and the efforts they had to make in getting Hillary to see that. That's about political nous.
It's why Chris Wallace scored a hit with 'pay for play' because the advisors did agree at the time that that was how it would look. And it does. Getting Bill to accept it, rather than Hillary, was a tacit admission of the political danger of the deal.
The Clinton team are going to need their wits about them over the Wikileaks material during these last two weeks. Sure, the whole thing looks like an attempt to undermine the election. I think the media are becoming bored with Donald crap and are looking for something else to keep the election newsworthy. That may well make them pawns in this undermining game. Whether the Russians are involved or this is just Assange taking revenge doesn't matter at this stage. Either way, the Russians are laughing their heads off at how easy it is to screw about with US credibility, both at home and abroad.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
I will be so relieved once this election fiasco is over. It seems to be going on forever.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
I will be so relieved once this election fiasco is over. It seems to be going on forever.
Unless Trump wins, then welcome (even more) unstable world.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
I'm not going to accept the election result unless Hillary wins.
Welcome back Romanlion. I hope you get in the mood to provide the alternative view we need. Remember, those of us from outside the US won't be able to necessarily pick up casual references to Hillary's past misdeeds, or necessarily have a detailed history of US Politics over the last 40 years in our minds. Spell it out for us mate.
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Croesos
I did know it was an old story. What was new from the emails was the concern of the advisors over the appearance of the deal and the efforts they had to make in getting Hillary to see that. That's about political nous.
So the "scandal" is that the Hillary Clinton campaign is actively using political strategy? What a scoop!
Seriously this seems like a combination of Clinton Rules #2 (Every allegation, no matter how ludicrous, is believable until it can be proven completely and utterly false. And even then, it keeps a life of its own in the conservative media world.) and #3 (The media assumes that Clinton is acting in bad faith until there's hard evidence otherwise.).
And for some reason you think that this example of Hillary Clinton being warned about the deliberate bad faith with which people would interpret using charity money to help AIDS victims is a scandal on par with the outright illegal solicitation of foreign money by Trump campaign surrogates? The term "false equivalence" seems somehow inadequate.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
You misunderstand. I don't think they are in any way equivalent. In an earlier post I referred to Leo McGarry's quote from the West Wing. The emails draw back the curtains on "making sausages" (i.e. what political processes look like from the inside). I've worked on the administrative inside; I'm not naive about what goes on. And I don't have a vote here anyway.
The email dump, unfortunately, plays into the metanarrative of the outsider. "Politicians are all in it for themselves; the system is broke; it needs to be swept away so that it works for the people rather than for itself". And 15% of the voters remain undecided. And the media need to refresh the news cycle in the last couple of weeks. There are risks here which the Clinton team had better not be complacent about. "Caesar's wife" is in play. You've pointed out, very well, that the "crooked Hillary" legend has dubious roots. But it's been pervasive.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
{Speaking generally, and more about the offline world than here, but some of it may apply here.}
A couple of things I don't understand:
--Why anyone was fundamentally surprised when Trump said he might not accept the election results. That's totally in line with his behavior and what he's said.
--Why anyone who's aware of the world, beyond their own lives (not necessarily a criticism), thinks that politics is clean. Anywhere, but especially in the US. News, expose' after expose', history class. Backroom deals; "pork-barrel politics"; funding and gifts from lobbyists; dodgy fundraising (and remember that American politicians *HAVE* to have a lot of money to even attempt to run for office); donors who want favors; hiding a controversial item deep inside a very lengthy bill, hoping the other side won't catch it (which is often true), etc.
That's how the thing is done.
I went looking for something online that would make this more clear. I found the 2005 Rolling Stone article "Inside the Horror Show That Is Congress--Warning: Should not be viewed by small children or anyone with a shred of idealism." Bernie Sanders took the author on an in-depth, behind-the-scenes tour of Congress. Going in, the author commented that it would be "Like an evil, adult version of Schoolhouse Rock". (SR is a long-running, beloved series of short, educational cartoons that are tucked in between TV cartoon shows.)
The article is long and sprawling, and written in a casual way. (And with casual proof-reading. ) But it's a good exploration of how Congress makes sausage.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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TurquoiseTastic
Fish of a different color
# 8978
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Posted
I don't understand why anybody who is aware of their own lives, or anybody else's, thinks that politics is dirty.
Politics is human. Therefore politics is flawed. Given the high stakes and pressures in politics, human sin and weakness will be particularly exposed there. So how dare we all get on our high horses as though we're practically too pure to contemplate the goings-on in high places.
If we were under the same stresses and pressures as most politicians most of us would probably behave much worse. I strongly believe that most politicians are more virtuous than most members of the general public.
Hillary: slightly below average for a politician, quite a lot better than an average member of the general public.
Trump: quite a lot worse than most politicians, slightly below average for the general public. But then, he's not really a politician, is he?
Posts: 1092 | From: Hants., UK | Registered: Jan 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Why anyone who's aware of the world, beyond their own lives (not necessarily a criticism), thinks that politics is clean.
I don't think anyone does, and that is part of the problem. Clinton is part of the system and Trump is perceived to not be.
What is amazing is that despite being the Peter Pan version of a 12 year old Frat Boy, people think that outsider status alone is worthy of being elected.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
I think politicians, with some exceptions, are clean but flawed. I know more about the detail of Australian politics than US Politics, but I think that politicians go into the job because they genuinely believe they can help make their country or region better. On the left, that means more egalitarian, and on the right, richer. In America, the right also wants to be more Christian/better in the eyes of God: the good nation. Here, those people sit with the far right.
The evil ones, and I mean that, are those who try to corrupt politicians: who pay the money and demand the service. There's also the ones who try to entrap them - here I'm looking at British Tabloids.
I'm not sure if you in the USA are familiar with the ouvre of the Fake Sheik. He was this bloke who was employed by the tabloids to trap people in various ways - famously, he caught a Pakistani cricketer offering to spot fix a match. Anyway, he recently went down for fraud. Oh bugger I was going to repeat a joke at this point but I can't remember the punchline. It's not even my joke, it's from the News Quiz a couple of weeks ago. Oh! How annoying. Stream of consciousness failure of memory.
Bloody hell, here I am editing the post, and I've forgotten the additional bit I was going to put in. Better go play an MMO... not a joke, that's what I'm going to do.
[ 26. October 2016, 23:54: Message edited by: simontoad ]
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
Oh! I remember! Those people sit on the far right [,mostly].
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Jack-booted thugs. Make it hard for black people to vote and then when someone tries to fill that gap, shut them down.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Re voter registration raid by "jack-booted thugs":
Gaaaaaa! ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
[ 27. October 2016, 00:36: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Jack-booted thugs. Make it hard for black people to vote and then when someone tries to fill that gap, shut them down.
Remind me who the Governor of Indiana is... Oh, that's right. It's Mike Pence, Trump's running mate.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Let's just hope that this attempt at bullying catches wide media attention.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
I remembered that joke... It was the Fake Sheik versus the Sham Imam.
Not really worth it in the end.
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Miss Amanda--
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
Let's just hope that this attempt at bullying catches wide media attention.
...but, AIUI, it wasn't just an attempt. The cops took the voter registrations, already filled out. Something like 45,000, IIRC.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Something to lighten the mood, a bit:
Donald has opened a new hotel on the same street as the White House, which features HuffPost calls "The Dumbest Cocktail Bar In America". And it does seem to be. There's a link to the menu. Wine by the spoonful. (Might be appropriate if it's a really expensive, really good, very old wine.) "The Benjamin", described in the article and the first item on the menu, sounds so vile they should give you a chaser of Pepto Bismol.
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
The Indiana story is very puzzling. In terms of outcomes, Indiana is pretty much a foregone conclusion for Trump - a 7% lead in the popular vote and winning chances of almost 90%. You'd need a heck of a lot of fraudulently registered dead or none-existent people to overcome that.
One might be forgiven for thinking that there is only one beneficary of such a search. That is the one who claims this election is being rigged. The timing is such that preliminary (i.e. unverified by independent examination) reports of evidence of rigging will be available as the election enters its final week. And of course if nothing is found, "investigations are continuing".
This looks like a ploy. A fishing expedition. Whether or not it has the explicit or implicit backing of Mike Pence. It looks rather like a "counter-rig" to me. I suppose it might just be a cock-up, initiated by some misguided fool. (Other than Pence, or Trump, of course).
[ 27. October 2016, 08:32: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
If something nasty is going on, it would appear from this article that it concerns the down-ticket votes: quote:
Democrats are hoping that former senator Evan Bayh can win back his old seat, which is being vacated by retiring Sen. Daniel Coats (R). Bayh is in a tight race with Rep. Todd C. Young (R).
From that article, I'm confused about what actually happened, but at the least, the allegation that 45,000 voter registrations were taken is contested: quote:
The news release also stated: “When the search warrant was executed on October 4, copies were made of voter application forms and the originals were left with representatives of Indiana Voter Registration Project, a subsidiary of Patriot Majority USA.” It also said that applications received by voter registration offices were being processed “according to established policies.”
At the very least, it looks like voter intimidation, but I wish there was more objective coverage ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
This appears marginally more balanced. At the very least, it suggests one way I for one hadn't thought of in which voter registration drives can exert undue influence: quote:
"By law, any groups that register voters are required to turn in all the registrations they receive, to make sure that they don't decide to turn in only the forms of prospective voters who favor their party,"
A Perfect Spy comes to mind once again, when the hero writes of his unwilling involvement in his con artist dad's dodgy attempts to get elected as Liberal MP for Gulworth North: quote:
Dear Belinda... I really must own to being fascinated by this glimpse of the democratic process at work. What seems at first to be such a rough instrument turns out to be equipped with all sorts of refined checks and balances...
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Miss Amanda--
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
We've got McCain suggesting Republicans preventing a Supreme Court nominee for an entire presidential term.
McCain is overdue for the glue factory. Maybe the cowgirl running against him can send him there if she wins.
It gets worse. "This Could Be The Beginning Of The End Of The Supreme Court As We Know It." (HuffPost)
Per the Cato Institute, a conservative think tank:
quote:
“As a matter of constitutional law, the Senate is fully within its powers to let the Supreme Court die out, literally,” wrote the Cato Institute’s Ilya Shapiro in a column Wednesday on The Federalist.
I don't usually throw the word "treason" around, and I don't know if letting the Supreme Court die out would legally be treason.
But, ethically and common sense-ically, it's damn close.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Geek Report.
I had a bit of fun with the Fox News Predictor Map and gave Trump all the states which are predicted today (538 polls only) to be less than 85% for Clinton. The results come up as follows
85% Prediction
Hillary crawls over the line and Trump activates the lawyers!
Recent polls suggest that the race may be tightening a bit.
[ 27. October 2016, 09:13: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Re Indiana raid and wanting more objective coverage:
"Mike Pence Used State Police To Suppress Voter Registration In Indiana, Advocacy Group Claims. A raid this month seized 45,000 voter registration applications, most of them from black voters." (HuffPost)
Despite that title, it does go into both sides, plus Indiana's voter ID law, the training manual sent to HuffPost, etc.
As to what someone said upthread about any vote suppression probably being about down-ticket races: Maybe; but, in the end, that doesn't really matter. If someone isn't registered to vote, they can't vote at all--for president, mayor, or ballot measures.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Croesos
I did know it was an old story. What was new from the emails was the concern of the advisors over the appearance of the deal and the efforts they had to make in getting Hillary to see that. That's about political nous.
So the "scandal" is that the Hillary Clinton campaign is actively using political strategy? What a scoop!
Seriously this seems like a combination of Clinton Rules #2 (Every allegation, no matter how ludicrous, is believable until it can be proven completely and utterly false. And even then, it keeps a life of its own in the conservative media world.) and #3 (The media assumes that Clinton is acting in bad faith until there's hard evidence otherwise.).
And for some reason you think that this example of Hillary Clinton being warned about the deliberate bad faith with which people would interpret using charity money to help AIDS victims is a scandal on par with the outright illegal solicitation of foreign money by Trump campaign surrogates? The term "false equivalence" seems somehow inadequate.
Yeah. I think you've covered this very well. I was perusing the Foxnews website for entertainment earlier. It is in equal measure hilarious and despair-inducing. However, reading the comments section on one of the articles, there are clearly a group of people who ***KNOW*** that Hilary is corrupt. No amount of evidence, or investigation will in any way diminish this view.
And this received wisdom is bizarre to me, as I cannot see any evidence to support it but it is also really powerful and clearly a big part of why HRC is not a certainty to win. Moreover why she will face on-going nonsense after inauguration in much the same way Obama has (for a different reason) if she does indeed win.
AFZ
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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Every newspaper has its slant. Huff Post's article is more objective than the one originally posted, and made more of an effort to check with both sides.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
The CNN piece I linked to does better than either the WaPo or the HuffPo as far as I can see.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
I agree, Eutychus. Still don't understand the raid.
Another pollster curiosity.
RCP has just tossed Pennsylvania into toss-up (i.e. within 5%). But their list of polls supporting this decision excludes October polls giving Clinton leads of 4, 8, 9, 12, 8. 6 and 9 percentage points (538 evidence). 538 is calling a Clinton win 89% probable.
This is the second example I've found of an RCP categorisation which seems very selective in its use of polls evidence, and which (co-incidentally) prevents their headline estimate that Clinton is over the line.
Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence ...
[ 27. October 2016, 10:41: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Carex
Shipmate
# 9643
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Posted
Uncertainty and suspense drive web traffic. Does their business model include a source of income other than ad revenue from clicks on their website?
Posts: 1425 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
The Indiana story is very puzzling. In terms of outcomes, Indiana is pretty much a foregone conclusion for Trump - a 7% lead in the popular vote and winning chances of almost 90%. You'd need a heck of a lot of fraudulently registered dead or none-existent people to overcome that.
Indiana has a fairly low voter registration (69.2% of voting-age citizens in 2012) and turnout rate (57.7% of voting-age citizens in 2012), even by American standards. Those numbers place them at #38 and #37, respectively, on a list of all American states plus the District of Columbia. It could be argued that the reason Indiana is a "foregone conclusion" is due in part to the current shape of the Indiana electorate and that those currently in power have no wish to see that change. After all, they owe their positions of authority to the current status quo, which is one of the reasons that voting franchise problems are normally intractable to legislative solutions.
All data courtesy of the U.S. Census Bureau.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Yes, that's very helpful information. I didn't realise there was a different kind of vulnerability in play.
It makes any political influence look bad and the actions of the police look worse.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
He can STILL win. And if he doesn't the bottom 25% at least will STILL lose.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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sabine
Shipmate
# 3861
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Posted
The Indiana voting registration scandal is not about individuals trying to vote fraudulently, but about the assertion that someone or some entity has been changing information on the current registration information so that voters will get to the polls and their ID will not match the info in the registration book. Then, they will not be able to vote. Some evidence points to old information not being taken out of the rolls.
Some people claim it's a GOP plot to deny minority votes. Others claim it might be the result of poor data management by the Indiana Secretary of State.
We were all advised to check out voter registration info. I did, and found mine was correct. So far, in early voting, no problems of this sort have been reported.
Local news coverage of this issue
sabine
[ 27. October 2016, 14:50: Message edited by: sabine ]
Posts: 5887 | From: the US Heartland | Registered: Dec 2002
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sabine
Shipmate
# 3861
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Posted
Sorry to double post. Even if Trump tries to claim Indiana's brouhaha as an example of voter fraud, I don't think it will work. Our current Secretary of State is a Republican, and if the problem (if there is one) is a result of poor data management, it only reflects badly on the GOP.
sabine
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"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano
Posts: 5887 | From: the US Heartland | Registered: Dec 2002
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
"This Could Be The Beginning Of The End Of The Supreme Court As We Know It."(HuffPost)
Per the Cato Institute, a conservative think tank:
quote:
“As a matter of constitutional law, the Senate is fully within its powers to let the Supreme Court die out, literally,” wrote the Cato Institute’s Ilya Shapiro in a column Wednesday on The Federalist.
It might not be quite that easy. Article II, section 2, clause 3 provides a temporary work-around for legislative obstructionism of this sort.
quote:
The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.
Inelegant, and effectively limiting appointments to spans of at most two years, but it is a work-around and it is constitutional. Essentially this would mean staffing the Supreme Court (and possibly lower courts) with temps.
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
I don't usually throw the word "treason" around, and I don't know if letting the Supreme Court die out would legally be treason.
But, ethically and common sense-ically, it's damn close.
The constitution also helpfully defines what treason is (and isn't):
quote:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.
So legislators using (or refusing to use) their constitutionally mandated powers definitely doesn't qualify as treason.
[ 27. October 2016, 15:00: Message edited by: Crœsos ]
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
No, that would be malfeasance. One of the weaknesses of the U.S. constitution is that there is no way to get redress if Congress simply does not do its job, other than to wait for the next election.
Does this remind people of the end of the Roman republic?
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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