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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: U.S. Presidential Election 2016
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
... She is utterly incompetent, except when it comes to using her political influence to enrich herself and her family. ...
So different, so very different, from the home life of our dear Trump. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
Trump at least had to make his way in the market.
Hillary has never been anything but a parasite. Never produced a product, never built a building, never created a job or provided a service. She has sucked taxpayer dollars all her life. And yet....
She and her husband leave the White House "not only dead broke, but in debt." And in the span of a decade are worth a quarter of a billion dollars.
Selling their influence, hocking access, and shaking down very comer in the name of a charity that is anything but...ask the people of Haiti.
So different, yes...
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Trump at least had to make his way in the market.
I would challenge that.
He appears, certainly on the basis of actual evidence, to have been singularly unwise in his business dealings, to the extent that if he'd just left it all in the bank, he'd be considerably richer than he is now.
So unless 'making his way in the market' is code for 'loses money hand over fist', no. Not really.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Trump at least had to make his way in the market.
I would challenge that.
He appears, certainly on the basis of actual evidence, to have been singularly unwise in his business dealings, to the extent that if he'd just left it all in the bank, he'd be considerably richer than he is now.
So unless 'making his way in the market' is code for 'loses money hand over fist', no. Not really.
Unless Trump has been a government employee or dependent thereof all of his adult life, yes really.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
I was never so impressed with Hillary as I was watching that short news conference about The Return of the E-mails. It is like the hand that pops out of the grave at the end of the horror movie. I would have been crying.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
Illary is permanently and irreparably damaged.
The unexpected thing from my perspective is that she's done it to herself.
I wonder what her reaction was the first time she heard the name Carlos Danger.
I wonder what her thoughts are now...
State Department emails on the device of a pedophile...
Incredible.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
... She is utterly incompetent, except when it comes to using her political influence to enrich herself and her family. ...
So different, so very different, from the home life of our dear Trump.
Trump at least had to make his way in the market.
Hillary has never been anything but a parasite. Never produced a product, never built a building, never created a job or provided a service. She has sucked taxpayer dollars all her life. And yet....
She and her husband leave the White House "not only dead broke, but in debt." And in the span of a decade are worth a quarter of a billion dollars.
Selling their influence, hocking access, and shaking down very comer in the name of a charity that is anything but...ask the people of Haiti.
So different, yes...
It's a bit rich to call Clinton a parasite when her principal opponent is a serial bankrupt, fraudster, tax evader, misogynist, and one of the world's most prolific collectors of frequent liar points, with no record of service to anyone but himself. However, if that's the kind of person you want for president, he is right there ready and waiting for your vote.
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
... She is utterly incompetent, except when it comes to using her political influence to enrich herself and her family. ...
So different, so very different, from the home life of our dear Trump.
Trump at least had to make his way in the market.
Hillary has never been anything but a parasite. Never produced a product, never built a building, never created a job or provided a service. She has sucked taxpayer dollars all her life. And yet....
She and her husband leave the White House "not only dead broke, but in debt." And in the span of a decade are worth a quarter of a billion dollars.
Selling their influence, hocking access, and shaking down very comer in the name of a charity that is anything but...ask the people of Haiti.
So different, yes...
It's a bit rich to call Clinton a parasite when her principal opponent is a serial bankrupt, fraudster, tax evader, misogynist, and one of the world's most prolific collectors of frequent liar points, with no record of service to anyone but himself. However, if that's the kind of person you want for president, he is right there ready and waiting for your vote.
Yeah, you're right.
She's obviously great, cause he's such a dick.
I stand corrected.
[ 29. October 2016, 01:36: Message edited by: romanlion ]
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
For tbose who don't know, 'Carlos Danger' is the pseudonym used by Anthony Weiner when he was illegally sexting others. Whether these emails in question were on his equipment, or his wife's, and if so how they got there, and what connection if any they have to Hillary Clinton in any case, these are all matters subject to investigation. romanlion is speculating.
What Comey's letter also reveals, yet again, is the vexed question of the accountability of the Director of the FBI. It seems extraordinary to me that he can throw a hand grenade into the Presidential election at this late stage of the campaign. Not even J Edgar Hoover, the quintessential law unto himself, ever did anything like this. I heard on CNN this evening that there has been a recognised principle (not a law) within the FBI which says that such hand grenade throwing within 60 days of an election is to be avoided. Precisely to avoid this sort of chaos.
[ 29. October 2016, 01:53: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
romanlion--
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Hillary has never been anything but a parasite. Never produced a product, never built a building, never created a job or provided a service. She has sucked taxpayer dollars all her life.
Actually, per Wikipedia, she's worked hard (including manual labor). Some examples:
--The summer after she graduated from college, "she worked her way across Alaska, washing dishes in Mount McKinley National Park and sliming salmon in a fish processing cannery in Valdez (which fired her and shut down overnight when she complained about unhealthful conditions).[42]"
--Started political and campaign work when she was 13. (BTW, she used to be a Republican.) Told her youth minister she was a "mind conservative and a heart liberal".
--"Following the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr., Rodham organized a two-day student strike and worked with Wellesley's black students to recruit more black students and faculty.[31]"
--Hillary wound up on the cover of Life, and on TV, and in the papers, for a daring commencement speech.
--She's worked hard on children's rights and health care all her adult life. (Lots of examples in the article.)
--Extensive legal work, including Legal Aid. She was also a law school professor.
You might like the TV show about both Trump and Hillary:
"The Choice 2016" (PBS). Film, trailer, and audiocast available. It gets into both their backgrounds, and actually gave me some sympathy for Trump, as a person.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
For tbose who don't know, 'Carlos Danger' is the pseudonym used by Anthony Weiner when he was illegally sexting others. Whether these emails in question were on his equipment, or his wife's, and if so how they got there, and what connection if any they have to Hillary Clinton in any case, these are all matters subject to investigation. romanlion is speculating.
romanlion is not speculating.
romanlion is following the known information to it's logical conclusion.
For those who don't know, 'Carlos Danger' is the 'sexting underage girls' pseudonym of Anthony Wiener, the (now estranged) husband of Illary's closest aide and adviser, Huma Abedin.
The FBI director said that devices in an "unrelated case" led to the reopening of the Illary email case. That unrelated case is now reported to be the Wiener 'sexting little girls' case. The only logical conclusion is that the 'freak sexting little girls' guy's device was shared with his wife, who is Huma Abedin, Illary's closest aide and adviser.
Illary.
The most competent and capable woman ever to exist on planet Earth.
Run right out and vote for that.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
--Extensive legal work, including Legal Aid.
Is that when she laughed about getting a child rapist off with time served?
Nice.
Warrior for Women, Illary.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
I would like to know why the FBI won't comment on whether Trump's ties to Russia are being investigated, but the moment emails that they don't even know will reveal anything abiut Clinton are discovered the FBI Director is writing to Congress.
[ 29. October 2016, 02:18: Message edited by: RuthW ]
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
romanlion--
No, she laughed about her client, not about the rape. She was forced into taking the case, and had to do the best she could to defend the guy.
[ 29. October 2016, 02:20: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
I heard on CNN this evening that there has been a recognised principle (not a law) within the FBI which says that such hand grenade throwing within 60 days of an election is to be avoided. Precisely to avoid this sort of chaos.
Really a rock-and-a-hard-place situation if you ask me. Investigate, and people think you are biased for the opponent. Don't investigate, and people think you are biased for the person under investigation.
I will hand it to Trump, he's been relatively silent over Twitter. The last thing he needs to do is insert himself into this one. Maybe his aids drugged him or something.
Honestly, I don't see this swaying the election. Anyone who had already decided to vote for Hillary had already either (a) determined that the email thing was no big deal, or (b) determined that the email thing could be overlooked for the sake of keeping Trump out of office. I don't see how this changes any of those calculations.
The only thing I could see happening is a waive of Republican voters who were going to sit out or vote for Johnson suddenly deciding that they could vote for Trump solely because it might give them an opportunity to embarrass Clinton at long last. And that's not going to be enough votes to swing the many states Trump needs to sway at this point to win.
My prediction? Small blip on the stock market (it was down earlier), Hillary focuses her energy on swing states over the next week and a half rather than pressing for Arizona or Georgia (which she didn't need anyway), and still ends up on top, without the cherries on top of the sundae that Arizona and Georgia would have been. Although an already hostile House just got another thing to scream about from day one. As if we weren't already expecting a few Republican congressmen to draft articles of impeachment in her first year... ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
But I said Trump was going to be out before September of 2015, so what do I know?
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I would like to know why the FBI won't comment on whether Trump's ties to Russia are being investigated, but the moment emails that they don't even know will reveal anything abiut Clinton are discovered the FBI Director is writing to Congress.
Because if Comey's ass and reputation weren't on the line, you would never have heard about this latest.
Huma Abedin is married to a fucking freak. She shared devices with him on which she sent and received State Department emails, likely of a classified nature, from Illary's basement email server.
If Carlos Danger could have kept his dick pics to himself, this wouldn't even be an issue.
Meanwhile, the former Secretary of State was allowing State Department business to pass through his devices, probably including classified content.
Genius.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
romanlion--
No, she laughed about her client, not about the rape. She was forced into taking the case, and had to do the best she could to defend the guy.
Whatever helps you sleep at night...
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
What Comey's letter also reveals, yet again, is the vexed question of the accountability of the Director of the FBI. It seems extraordinary to me that he can throw a hand grenade into the Presidential election at this late stage of the campaign. Not even J Edgar Hoover, the quintessential law unto himself, ever did anything like this. I heard on CNN this evening that there has been a recognised principle (not a law) within the FBI which says that such hand grenade throwing within 60 days of an election is to be avoided. Precisely to avoid this sort of chaos.
I heard the same thing from the talking heads on CNN. It was pointed out by David Gergen, one of the most level-headed commentators that they have, that if the Clinton camp hadn't dragged out complying with the FBI's requests this would have been over much sooner.
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Trump at least had to make his way in the market.
I would challenge that.
He appears, certainly on the basis of actual evidence, to have been singularly unwise in his business dealings, to the extent that if he'd just left it all in the bank, he'd be considerably richer than he is now.
So unless 'making his way in the market' is code for 'loses money hand over fist', no. Not really.
Unless Trump has been a government employee or dependent thereof all of his adult life, yes really.
So pissing away daddy's money and those of countless numbers of subcontractors, vendors, and investors is "making your own way" but being an employee working at a job that happens to be funded by the government (like say, a police officer, military personnel or firefighter) is being a leech? Got it.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Trump at least had to make his way in the market.
I would challenge that.
He appears, certainly on the basis of actual evidence, to have been singularly unwise in his business dealings, to the extent that if he'd just left it all in the bank, he'd be considerably richer than he is now.
So unless 'making his way in the market' is code for 'loses money hand over fist', no. Not really.
Unless Trump has been a government employee or dependent thereof all of his adult life, yes really.
So pissing away daddy's money and those of countless numbers of subcontractors, vendors, and investors is "making your own way" but being an employee working at a job that happens to be funded by the government (like say, a police officer, military personnel or firefighter) is being a leech? Got it.
Right. Cause Illary has been a dedicated police officer/military personnel/firefighter all her life...
Give me a fucking break.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Prester John
I don't see that delays prior to the closing of the case have got anything to do with the wisdom of Comey's actions today, so close to the election. He seems to have been more concerned to resolve the dilemma of his personal responsibility (which I can see) than the wider issue of damaging the election process. About which there was a pre-established principle.
It's not just Democrats who are jumping up and down about his actions. He's buggered up the due process of the election.
[ 29. October 2016, 02:52: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
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Posted
And if he hadn't said anything until after the election?
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
He's buggered up the due process of the election.
Your conflation of principles there is too ironic for an apt description...
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Prester John:
And if he hadn't said anything until after the election?
He would have been following the DOJ traditional playbook which says don't make stuff public within 60 days prior to an election.
[ 29. October 2016, 03:00: Message edited by: RuthW ]
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Prester John:
And if he hadn't said anything until after the election?
He would have been following the DOJ traditional playbook which says don't make stuff public within 60 days prior to an election.
Shoulda stuck with the "traditional playbook"...
It's that kind of cycle...
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
romanlion
There have been prior claims that this election has been 'rigged'. That there has been deliberate tampering with the processes. I'm not claiming that Comey's actions amount to deliberate tampering. I think they were stupid and are having ongoing damaging effects.
The due processes of the election involve the candidates scrapping it out over respective policies and suitabilities for the job. This election has been mostly about the suitabilities of the candidates and has involved more mud-slinging than I've ever seen before. It's been pretty unedifying. But that's within the scope of due processes. What isn't is for a high ranking official to create further suspicion about one of the candidates in a way which makes it impossible for that candidate to address the suspicions. It has also disrupted that candidate's plans to compete at a vital late stage. That is fundamentally wrong. It also demonstrates the wisdom of the 60 day principle.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
For those who don't know, 'Carlos Danger' is the 'sexting underage girls' pseudonym of Anthony Wiener,
You mean the attempted sting by Fox news which ended with the police finding Weiner did nothing wrong? Adn the girl in connection with that was 17.
Meanwhile, Trump is apparently connected to the real deal. The girl connected with that was 8.
Funny this attention on might be questionable practices when her opponent will actually face charges of fraud.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Politically romanlion is winning here hands down.
Because Clinton is losing hands down.
Trump can't win. She can lose. More than ever.
The legal narrative is utterly irrelevant. The truth of the matter, which is unknowable and meaningless even if it were, is utterly irrelevant. This is worse than the OJ Simpson case in which there was a meaningful truth but it couldn't be established. This CANNOT.
Shit is being thrown about and that can only benefit the shit stirring shit thrower in this little apeshit monkey cage. It doesn't matter that the shit is shit.
Clinton is the only rational choice, no matter that she can do nothing for Trump's core constituency, the lower half of the working class.
This is not a rational process.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Depends how big this deal is on Hilary re. the bleached e-mails.
I mean can the trump bandwagon sputter back into life at this late stage? Or is the nature of bandwagons such that once the initial momentum has been lost it can never be regained.
10 days till we discover which new brand of rationality/irrationality the world is headed for on this occasion.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
The legal narrative is utterly irrelevant.
[snip]
This is not a rational process.
First statement. Disagree
Second statement. Agree
The governance of the Presidential election needs a new script. Or at the very least, some enforceable modification of the present one. Government of the people by the people for the people has not been well served by this year's protracted shenanigans. Whatever the outcome.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
B62, if your final para is due to your disagreement, I agree, but it, the legal framework, the governance, can't be changed any more than throwing money at nuclear fusion will make it work.
Irrationality, ignorance, weakness, emotional and intellectual poverty always takes a step of unintended consequence backwards no matter that collective consciousness advances.
Clinton is a lame duck president in the making who will continue Obama's cautious powerlessness to address inequality. That's if her rate of fail doesn't carry her to oblivion.
[ 29. October 2016, 11:21: Message edited by: Martin60 ]
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
What is the rationale in that, Martin60?
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Martin60
romanlion's question gets a ditto from me. In the face of irrationality and the increasing power of the powerful, human liberty is at risk. How is to be defended?
I can see the argument that legal and democratic processes have been suborned by the actions of the powerful to such an extent that many people have lost faith in them. How is that faith to be restored?
The peaceful transfer of power is an important defence of freedom. If that process itself is being suborned, discredited, then surely a first priority in the defence of freedom is to protect that process against such suborning?
Otherwise we fall into despair, or anarchy, or totalitarianism.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Rocinante
Shipmate
# 18541
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Clinton is the only rational choice, no matter that she can do nothing for Trump's core constituency, the lower half of the working class.
This is not a rational process.
She won't be able to do anything for them because she will more than likely have to get any legislation past a hostile Republican congress.
And I don't think what's happened this year is entirely irrational. Trump's base know that the Republican congress won't do shit for them, in making Trump the candidate they were as much (if not more) sticking it to the Republican elite as to the Democratic elite.
Posts: 384 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2016
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Martin60
romanlion's question gets a ditto from me. In the face of irrationality and the increasing power of the powerful, human liberty is at risk. How is to be defended?
I can see the argument that legal and democratic processes have been suborned by the actions of the powerful to such an extent that many people have lost faith in them. How is that faith to be restored?
The peaceful transfer of power is an important defence of freedom. If that process itself is being suborned, discredited, then surely a first priority in the defence of freedom is to protect that process against such suborning?
Otherwise we fall into despair, or anarchy, or totalitarianism.
Neither side has a policy that will transfer power=money from the powerful (not the Mexicans and the Chinese) to the powerless by the taxation of wealth. The only mechanism that the working class can have for themselves is unionization.
As usual, everything else is just words.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
OK debate standard peeps, in the context of this election.
AIUI from PBS Newshour the emails on the Weiner/Clinton Adviser machine came from another device/s used by Clinton and her staff. There is a fair likelihood that the FBI already had all these emails from that or those other previously examined computers. If so, that will not be good for the FBI.
In any event, I agree that most people will disregard this in terms of their vote. If you favor Clinton, Trump is a dangerous lunatic, among other things, and if you favor Trump, Clinton is unspeakably corrupt and has a cack hand.
America will survive a Trump Presidency. Trump doesn't know truth from lies I suspect, and tries to speak in generalities anyway. He'll just do whatever he feels like if he gets the Oval Office, and just deny any promise he later finds inconvenient. It might even be better in the long run for Trump to win and then disappoint his acolytes, so that they realise that no matter what they do they are screwed.
I do think Martin60 is off base when he talks about addressing the concerns of Trumps supporters. I feel that they can be adequately dealt with through time and the operation of demographic realities. Addressing the concerns of these people means winding back the cultural revolution that started at the end of WW2, the revolution that started to move women and non-white people into the corridors of power. That's not a price that should be paid.
Addressing economic concerns should be easy, by the way, at least if Clinton gets in. She knows how to ride an economic recovery. Trump will probably blunder in and screw things up, or at least try to redirect a little stream of money his way. Mind you, Trumpite economic concerns really are insignificant compared to the problems facing non-white pockets of poverty. I'd consider stiffing them here too, but its probably not the smart play.
So, screw Trump supporters Martin60. They will melt away soon enough, because their concerns are either ephemeral or based on their awful racism and sexism.
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Screw the two tier disenfranchised white working class? The 'top' tier being men and the bottom their female, child and elderly dependents.
I can only say two words to that in Hell.
The first is 'Screw.'
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Seen on Facebook: "The continued existence of Anthony Wiener is proof the Clintons aren't secret murderers."
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Seen on Facebook: "The continued existence of Anthony Wiener is proof the Clintons aren't secret murderers."
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
hosting/
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Screw the two tier disenfranchised white working class? The 'top' tier being men and the bottom their female, child and elderly dependents.
I can only say two words to that in Hell.
The first is 'Screw.'
Inviting the other poster to fill in the blanks in a sentence you yourself admit should be in Hell equals a personal insult by stealth, and a complete disregard for recent host interventions about your clarity.
Stop playing with fire. Now.
/hosting
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Meanwhile, on the new "Clinton emails" investigation, I found this link.
Based on this account, any question of impropriety or lack of professionalism (and that of a minor nature) applies to Hama Abedin and, more sigificantly, to the "horrible mishandling" of the situation by James Comey.
Trump's "worse than Watergate" categorisation seems to be at variance with both the published facts and certainly this more detailed article.
A lot of folks are saying that Comey's days as Director of the FBI are numbered, regardless of who wins on the 8th. But of course nothing will be done until after that date.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Teekeey Misha
Shipmate
# 18604
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Posted
[Aside]
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Inviting the other poster to fill in the blanks in a sentence.../hosting
If one observes that there are blanks in a sentence, is it not rather presumptuous to suggest one has been "invited" to fill them?
[/Aside]
I find this whole election thing increasingly scary. I'm genuinely frightened that, given the UK's demonstrable propensity to vote insanely in the EU referendum, the US might actually do the inconceivable and elect that ghastly man as President. I can quite understand people not wanting to vote for Mrs Clinton - except when the only real alternative seems to be to vote for that man. If I had a vote in the States, I'd vote for Satan rather than that man, because the outcome would have to be better. Why do people not seem to see how utterly repugnant, inept, dishonest, disreputable and despicable he is?
I just don't get it. Why has that man's every appearance in public (or, frankly, in private) not convinced people that he should not ever be allowed anywhere near the tack room in which are stored the reins of power when they're not actually in use, let alone to actually wield them?
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Misha
Don't assume I don't care; sometimes I just can't be bothered to put you right.
Posts: 296 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2016
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Trump's "worse than Watergate" categorisation seems to be at variance with both the published facts and certainly this more detailed article.
What? Trump is at variance with the facts?
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
This is the kind of thing I was talking about earlier when I said the general evilness of the Clintons is more an article of faith among the American right than it is based on any kind of evidence. Every alleged scandal is the one that will finally once and for all provide the proof of the perfidy of the Clintons, and yet when you follow it out to its conclusion all you end up with is a lot of wasted time trying to decode messages from the Illuminati supposedly concealed in Anthony Weiner's dick pics.
This isn't so much like falling for the Nigerian prince e-mail scam, it's like falling for the Nigerian prince e-mail scam six times, each time believing that this time it's a real Nigerian prince who's contacted you.
This inability to learn or remember seems carefully cultivated. For example, romanlion made the offhand remark that "Trump at least had to make his way in the market." I'd bet that back in the 90s romanlion could come up with all kinds of details (some accurate, the others the product of talk radio fever dreams) about the Whitewater land deal, cattle futures, billing hours from the Rose law firm, and all the other Clinton faux scandals of the day which, whatever their other merits, outline a pretty steady engagement by the Clintons in private sector economics (i.e. "the market"). And yet when he needs to come up with some point or retort, all that information disappears down the memory hole.
Because the ultimate standard for the American right doesn't seem to be "is it true or false", but rather "does this hurt my political enemies or not".
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
We are now ten days from Election Day 2016. The previous entry in this series can be found here.
Nate Silver has the probability of a Clinton victory at 78%, with an average outcome of 316 electoral votes for Clinton. This is a slight decline from our last report, which was at an all time high for Silver's prediction of a Clinton victory. We're also reaching the point where Silver's polls-plus, polls only, and nowcast are starting to converge. Since the time to election is getting so short there really isn't much time for random drift to occur, so this makes sense. Silver discusses his general methodology here for those who are interested.
Sam Wang at the Princeton Election Consortium predicts a 97% chance of a Clinton victory using a random drift model and a 99% chance using Bayesian analysis, up slightly from last time. Wang's average outcome is Clinton getting 328 electoral votes, down a little from last time, so Wang's increase in confidence in a Clinton victory has more to do with the short time left than with any shift in the polls.
The Upshot at the New York Times currently gives Hillary Clinton a 91% chance of winning the election, same as last time. Only click through that link if you're a NYT subscriber or you're willing to use one of your ten monthly Times clicks on this.
RealClearPolitics, which is a current state aggregator rather than a predicting trend analyzer, currently has Clinton winning 252 electoral votes, Trump winning 126 electoral votes, and 160 electoral votes listed as "toss ups". I'm not sure I buy either Texas or Pennsylvania being close enough to be considered "toss ups", but that's what RCP claims.
The folks at electoral-vote.com (another real-time poll aggregator like RealClearPolitics) currently have Clinton winning 323 electoral votes to Trump's 209, with 6 electoral votes (Iowa) too close to call, if the election were held today.
The electoral math doesn't look much different than last time. Slightly more favorable to Donald Trump, but Hillary Clinton is still the favorite to the degree that some bookies are already paying out on 'Clinton wins' bets.
Once again the usual caveats apply about how anything can change in the next ten days. This is the current state of play, not a prediction, though time is running out for any changes to happen.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Teekeey Misha
Shipmate
# 18604
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Posted
It turns out That Man was correct all along - the election really IS rigged. Oh... wait...
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Misha
Don't assume I don't care; sometimes I just can't be bothered to put you right.
Posts: 296 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2016
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
Is there any sort of end date for the whole e-mail thing? Twenty-one years from now, will some ancient, senile congressman take a leak in the local park, 100 feet from where children are playing, and have his computer ceased and searched? Will there be an old 2002 e-mail from Hillary Clinton, perhaps, or perhaps not, posted from a secure server? Will Hillary, age 90, be taken in for another eight hour grilling?
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
Is there any sort of end date for the whole e-mail thing? Twenty-one years from now, will some ancient, senile congressman take a leak in the local park, 100 feet from where children are playing, and have his computer ceased and searched? Will there be an old 2002 e-mail from Hillary Clinton, perhaps, or perhaps not, posted from a secure server? Will Hillary, age 90, be taken in for another eight hour grilling?
Depends on whether the Republicans grow up between now and then.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Rocinante
Shipmate
# 18541
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Posted
The Clinton response to this latest non-scandal has been superb. Straight to the counter-punch: what exactly am I being accused of here?
Strikes me that she's fairly confident there's nothing to find, and the story is now James Comey briefing Congress about...well, nothing really.
This is so clearly an attempt to influence the election. Obama should fire his ass, but he won't of course because that would just give Comey credibility in the eyes of all the conspiracy theorists and fantasists.
Posts: 384 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2016
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rocinante:
This is so clearly an attempt to influence the election. Obama should fire his ass
He can't until the election is over, out of respect for separation of powers. He may request that Comey stands down while his pre-election behaviour is subject to an internal investigation. It would be very tempting to fire him for complete stupidity but I suspect that might provoke a different kind of law suit.
The FBI probably has a lot of "moles" who are prepared to pass on information from internal investigations. Whether they get paid for such actions probably varies from individual to individual.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Politically romanlion is winning here hands down.
Because Clinton is losing hands down.
...
Ur assuming people are still listening.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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