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Source: (consider it) Thread: Purgatory: U.S. Presidential Election 2016
SusanDoris

Incurable Optimist
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On BBC Radio Five Live earlier today, I heard a news bulletin where in one sentence, separated by only a few words, it referred to 'Hilary Clinton' and 'Mr trump'. As I was awake, I phoned and pointed out that this should either have been 'Hilary Clinton' and 'Donald Trump' or 'Mrs clinton' and 'Mr Trump'. A totally ineffective protest I suppose, but that bias should most certainly not be evident.

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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

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Golden Key
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Susan--

Thanks for your protest call! [Biased] You're right. They should have gone one way or the other. However, Hillary has been known by her first name for a long time, to distinguish her from her husband. So it's possible that the person you heard made an unconscious mistake.

Or they could be a Hillary-loathing sexist! [Biased]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
simontoad--

quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
Just as there is a rump of Englishmen who want to restore the Land of Hope and Glory, so there is a rump, a very large rump (but not large enough if the polls are right), of Americans who want to have their perceived needs catered for before any other American. They want women in their place, blacks in their place, and Hispanics and Asians out.

There ought be no compromise with these people. Their concerns are not legitimate. They should be disarmed as soon as possible. But they are not breeding very fast, so time and tide should take care of them, even if Trump wins this year.

While there are certainly some real jerks in the pro-Trump ranks, you are completely missing the pain felt by many people who have been fucked over for decades.
What Ruth said.

Gee, thanks, simontoad, for condemning a whole swathe of people in another country, and hoping they literally, biologically go extinct--especially without understanding the context.
[Roll Eyes]

I'd like to see Ruth's point explained a bit more. I can make a stab at the type of people she means, but I'd prefer to respond to a more considered rebuttal than guess at what's being put.

Further, I pointed to a demographic process in the USA that has been underway for a long time, namely the dilution of the white population by non-white populations. I heard somewhere that this is the first election where non white electors are in a majority. I did not literally say that a people were going to go extinct, or even imply it.

Finally, it is true that I am an Australian, and the details of how to proceed at a 4-way stop are difficult for me to understand. But we in Australia are like fish swimming close to the body of an American whale, feeding off its detritus. We make a close study of the whale.

[ 31. October 2016, 05:34: Message edited by: simontoad ]

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Human

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Golden Key
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simontoad--

You said, in the post I quoted:
quote:
But they are not breeding very fast, so time and tide should take care of them, even if Trump wins this year.


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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Martin60
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Martin--

RuthW, exactly, a Clinton win isn't the Kingdom come for at least the bottom half of the working class. She hasn't got the balls to empower them by taxing wealth.

You mean like this?

"A fair tax system: Making sure the wealthy, Wall Street, and corporations pay their fair share in taxes. " (HC's official website) That also talks about tax relief, and using the money from taxes on the wealthy to invest in jobs, "debt-free college", etc.

A continuation of Obama's policies that the Trump base don't experience, a minimum wage of $7.25 doesn't help. And despite him being the most pro-labor president since Truman, the Trump base again obviously perceives nothing.
quote:

Oh, and that would be "ovaries", not balls. And why don't we just skip the idea that a person's hormones and plumbing have anything to do with competence? Possible alternatives: "courage", "nerve", "daring","guts", "audacity".

I'm glad someone had them to take me up on it!
quote:

quote:
Trump would and should win hands down if he guaranteed achieving social justice without any scapegoats.
~No.~

a) No one can legitimately guarantee that.

b) AFAICT, he doesn't care at all about social justice.

c) America's attempts at social justice have a bumpy, cyclical history. There's a start, then someone tears it down, then someone tries again...Kind of like sufficient funding for public/state schools.

d) Kindly don't call down that nightmare of a presidency on my country.

[brick wall] [Projectile]

(a)-(c) of course
(d) don't worry, he's closing hard regardless.

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Love wins

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Enoch
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Romanlion, I suspect you won't agree with it, but have you read
this? It persuades me.

Admittedly, I'm far away and a foreigner. So far as November 8th is concerned my view is irrelevant, even though most of us in the rest of the world are terrified.

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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

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Golden Key
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Enoch--

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Admittedly, I'm far away and a foreigner. So far as November 8th is concerned my view is irrelevant, even though most of us in the rest of the world are terrified.

It's not really irrelevant, IMHO; but it's not primary, either. Anymore than Americans' views of your country should be primary for you.
[Angel]

And we're very scared, too. Whatever happens, we'll have to live with it, up close and personally.

FWIW.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Doone
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Romanlion, I suspect you won't agree with it, but have you read
this? It persuades me.

Admittedly, I'm far away and a foreigner. So far as November 8th is concerned my view is irrelevant, even though most of us in the rest of the world are terrified.

That is one powerful piece of writing Enoch.
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
simontoad--

You said, in the post I quoted:
quote:
But they are not breeding very fast, so time and tide should take care of them, even if Trump wins this year.

Yes? The conclusion you have drawn isn't open from this, especially not literally.

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Human

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Golden Key
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Enoch--

Thanks for the link to that great article.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:

And we're very scared, too. Whatever happens, we'll have to live with it, up close and personally.


I was thinking the same - and I feel for you [Votive]

[ 31. October 2016, 10:42: Message edited by: Boogie ]

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Golden Key
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Thanks, Boogie! [Smile]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Barnabas62
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The article which Enoch linked says it all, really. I hope the US electorate get the point, in sufficient numbers.

Today and tomorrow will probably give us some clues about who is benefiting most from the decline in support for Johnson, and what impact if any will flow from Comey. But do not be surprised if some more poison comes out of Wikileaks this week.

RuthW is spot on about the source of some of Trump's support. There's a mood around which reminds me of a line from Bob Geldof's song 'I don't like Mondays'.

Some people want to 'shoot the whole thing down'. I'm hoping that there are sufficient US voters to avoid that. November 8 could be a fateful day.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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chris stiles
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quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
The article which Enoch linked says it all, really. I hope the US electorate get the point, in sufficient numbers.

I think a lot of the critique of HC is down to misogyny, but I don't think that is all there is too it.

I think there has been a trend for politicians to get ever closer to business, and at this particular point there is a popular backlash against that trend.

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Golden Key
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--It seems that the FBI director is very much a political animal:

"James Comey Just Unmasked Himself--His carefully maintained nonpolitical image is now starting to fray." (HuffPost)


--"Donald Trump Encourages His Supporters To Vote Twice The GOP nominee told backers in Colorado to vote in person, even if they’d already voted by mail." (HuffPost)


--And I've seen headlines about some idiots taking a mask of Obama, wearing a noose, to a football game.
[Mad]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Jolly Jape
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Lest anyone think we on the left hand side of the pond are free from this sort of thinking, a very well know television interviewer remarked that Hillary "oozes entitlement" (this shortly before he characterized Americans as "weird"). One might be tempted to ask if he was giving a masterclass in entitlement himself, but, honestly? Cameron, Osbourne I could understand. They spent their youth in Bullingdon misadventures (USAians think "frat-boy"), rich, spoilt kids. But Hillary? I see no entitlement there; confidence, experience, social awareness, maybe. It just baffles me.

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To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)

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Barnabas62
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quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
The article which Enoch linked says it all, really. I hope the US electorate get the point, in sufficient numbers.

I think a lot of the critique of HC is down to misogyny, but I don't think that is all there is too it.

I think there has been a trend for politicians to get ever closer to business, and at this particular point there is a popular backlash against that trend.

I did address that point in the later paras of my post, chris, but on reflection "says it all" wasn't right. I should have written "says a lot".

Like RuthW and you and others here, I don't discount all the complaints of the disaffected, but mysogyny, racism and xenophobia are getting stirred in there too, as part of this doleful mobilisation.

It is extraordinary to hear that Donald Trump has actually encouraged voter fraud in Colorado, a state he has to turn in his race to win. In any other election but this one, that would kill his chances.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Leorning Cniht
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quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:
But Hillary? I see no entitlement there; confidence, experience, social awareness, maybe. It just baffles me.

Hillary thinks it's her turn to be President. She's served her time in all the right places, schmoozed all the right people, and even kept playing the game when she unaccountably lost to Barack Obama. It's her turn now. You don't really see that when she talks about Trump, because his candidacy is completely crazy, but you saw it a bit in the primaries.

That's the entitlement she has - not the kind of silver spoon birthright.

She's also bright, experienced, talented, and qualified, and is by no means unique among politicians for feeling this kind of entitlement.

[ 31. October 2016, 12:16: Message edited by: Leorning Cniht ]

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Penny S
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Half heard on the radio this morning that the FBI had been asked to release, some time ago, the communications that revealed connections between Russian and Trump, and they refused.
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Martin60
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Attack the Bloc.

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Love wins

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:
But Hillary? I see no entitlement there; confidence, experience, social awareness, maybe. It just baffles me.

Hillary thinks it's her turn to be President. She's served her time in all the right places, schmoozed all the right people, and even kept playing the game when she unaccountably lost to Barack Obama. It's her turn now. You don't really see that when she talks about Trump, because his candidacy is completely crazy, but you saw it a bit in the primaries.

That's the entitlement she has - not the kind of silver spoon birthright.

It's kind of impossible to run for President of the United States without making the case that it's your turn to be president, but it's only seen as entitlement when a woman does it. (To be fair, there were some rumbles of this when Obama was the Democratic nominee in 2008, mostly from people who were trying desperately to think of non-obvious synonyms for 'uppity'.) This seems to be borne out by the fact that Hillary Clinton typically has high public approval ratings which always seem to go way down when she's seeking a new position.

quote:
Public opinion of Clinton has followed a fixed pattern throughout her career. Her public approval plummets whenever she applies for a new position. Then it soars when she gets the job. The wild difference between the way we talk about Clinton when she campaigns and the way we talk about her when she’s in office can’t be explained as ordinary political mud-slinging. Rather, the predictable swings of public opinion reveal Americans’ continued prejudice against women caught in the act of asking for power.

We beg Clinton to run, and then accuse her of feeling “entitled” to win.

That analysis seems on-point.

quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
She's also bright, experienced, talented, and qualified, and is by no means unique among politicians for feeling this kind of entitlement.

No, but it seems like it's only considered "entitlement" when it's a woman seeking office. In men it's usually described as "ambition" or "drive".

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Susan--

Thanks for your protest call! [Biased] You're right. They should have gone one way or the other. However, Hillary has been known by her first name for a long time, to distinguish her from her husband. So it's possible that the person you heard made an unconscious mistake.

Or they could be a Hillary-loathing sexist! [Biased]

I think it is sexism, although it may be unconscious sexism. The fact that it is common practice only goes to the ubiquity of the problem.

It's not like there's apt to be any confusion in this particular context-- everyone knows which "Clinton" you mean when you're talking Clinton v Trump. But even if there were, they had several options: Mrs. or Ms. Clinton would be the obvious parallel to Mr. Trump. She also can and should be addressed as former Secretary Clinton or Sen. Clinton*. None of these could possibly refer to Bill.


*fun fact: did a quick google search to see when the "former" is used and when it is not. "Former" is used for non-exclusive offices to avoid confusion with current office-holder (there can be only one Sec. of State at a time), but titles for a a non-exclusive office can remain (there's more than one Senator so no need for "former").

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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quetzalcoatl
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Yes, I've always thought there is massive misogyny going on, often unconscious, against Clinton. At some level, some people don't think a woman should be pushy, ambitious, rich, sarcastic, aggressive, and so on. It is a bit like uppity Negros.

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

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cliffdweller
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interesting analysis Crœsos-- seems spot on.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
interesting analysis Crœsos -- seems spot on.

Thanks. The whole Quartz article I linked to is worth a read. It was written back in February, at a point when only three states had cast their primary votes. It seems to hold up pretty well.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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leftfieldlover
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# 13467

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A while ago there was a petition in the UK to ban Trump from coming here, which I signed. Because so many signed, it had to be debated in the House of Commons. It was decided that he should not be banned from UK. However, if he is elected POTUS (which I am afraid is looking more likely) what sort of reception will he get on his first Presidential visit? Her Maj will have to put him up at the Palace. Eek.

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I can gauge your mood from your approach to food.

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leftfieldlover
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... and I still cannot understand how any Woman, African-American, anyone with a family member in the forces, Hispanic, Moslem... would want to vote for him anyway. If he is elected, I foresee the USA going back 25 years in terms of women's rights, gay rights... Isn't the USA supposed to be a land founded by immigrants - unless you count the Native Indians, who always seem to be ignored anyway?

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I can gauge your mood from your approach to food.

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Carex
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quote:
Originally posted by leftfieldlover:
...
Isn't the USA supposed to be a land founded by immigrants - unless you count the Native Indians, who always seem to be ignored anyway?

Just because they walked across the Siberian land bridge doesn't mean they aren't still immigrants like the rest of us. Just longer ago.
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quetzalcoatl
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Don't you guys think that there will be a rebound? I mean, that if Trump's vote is increasing, whether or not that is to do with the email stuff, this could bring out hesitant Clinton voters, who may stiffen their resolve. Just the sheer horror of a Trump presidency.

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Don't you guys think that there will be a rebound? I mean, that if Trump's vote is increasing, whether or not that is to do with the email stuff, this could bring out hesitant Clinton voters, who may stiffen their resolve. Just the sheer horror of a Trump presidency.

Most of the recent movement in polling has come from Trump gains. Clinton has held pretty steady in her numbers. This is, to a certain degree, expected. Trump was very off-putting for a good number of traditional Republican voters, but as election day gets closer more of them will return to the GOP. According to Real Clear Politics this seems to be a result of voters abandoning Gary Johnson, not Hillary Clinton. We'll see if there are enough reluctant Republicans to tip the balance.

And speaking of chutzpah, apparently James Comey doesn't want to comment on the alleged Russian ties of the Trump campaign because he doesn't want to influence the election.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Arabella Purity Winterbottom

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quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:
Lest anyone think we on the left hand side of the pond are free from this sort of thinking, a very well know television interviewer remarked that Hillary "oozes entitlement"

And Trump doesn't? That's one of the strangest things for me - the accusations against Hillary seem far more appropriate to be levelled at Trump.

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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal

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Callan
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quote:
Originally posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom:
quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:
Lest anyone think we on the left hand side of the pond are free from this sort of thinking, a very well know television interviewer remarked that Hillary "oozes entitlement"

And Trump doesn't? That's one of the strangest things for me - the accusations against Hillary seem far more appropriate to be levelled at Trump.
You can file me under "is it cos she is a woman?" as well. Anyone who thinks that they can do the whole Leader Of The Free World bit, has got to be a little bit mad. Obama is probably the best incumbent of the gig during my lifetime and there are plenty of valid criticisms that could be levelled against him. 7/10 would be my view and from Nixon to Shrub that is pretty much better than anyone else managed. If asked if one could do as well, or better, the obvious answer is: "I don't think so". This was enough to get Prince Caspian the gig in Narnia but as appointment by a talking Lion is not, alas and alackaday!, generally considered a valid form of constitutional government, we have to settle for a number of more or less delusional persons trying to persuade the electorate that their more or less intractable problems are, somehow, soluble. Mrs Clinton clearly falls into the less delusional category on the grounds of two terms as a New York Senator and a term of Secretary of State in which she did pretty well. Her opponent, on the other hand, served his apprenticeship on, well, The Apprentice. So Clinton is running on: "Hey, I've done these things that demonstrate that I might have the relevant skill set for the job" whilst her opponent is running on: "behold, I am rich and famous". And she is the one with the sense of entitlement. To which the only adequate answer is something along the lines of: "Do fuck off you misogynist twat".

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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton

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Martin60
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So what kind of people are deserting Clinton for Trump over the email non-events? People who chose Clinton for weak reasons I presume. I just don't understand where they're coming from and why they're jumping ship. You couldn't make this up. It's bizarre. And it's not just The Bloc, the 40% who are spoken for. Or would this have happened anyway, regardless of the emails? Nothing was ever made of email sloppiness before Clinton. It's just pure prejudice, rejection of middle class, educated, feminist, rainbow coalition liberalism with cause, reaching the tipping point. The cause being 'Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've had enough now, what about ME?'.

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Love wins

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Barnabas62
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Currently, according to 538, Hillary Clinton's electoral firewall is Florida, North Carolina, Nevada and Colorado. Florida is almost 50-50, North Carolina and Nevada are about 60-40 in favour of Clinton, Colorado is about 80-20 in favour of Clinton.

Trump has to win all of those to win. Or win states in which Clinton's position is more secure.

Over the last few days, Clinton's position has deteriorated in terms of popular vote margins in the key states. The trend has been all one way.

[ 01. November 2016, 00:06: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Nick Tamen

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# 15164

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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
So what kind of people are deserting Clinton for Trump over the email non-events?

According to most polling, very few people are deserting Clinton for Trump. His numbers have risen, but hers haven't really dropped.

Trump's recent gains are coming almost exclusively from people previously undecided or on the fence—leaning toward Trump and just now deciding to go ahead and vote for him. Many of these were unlikely ever to vote for Clinton. If they didn't go for Trump, it'd be Gary Johnson or just sitting the election out.

[ 01. November 2016, 00:30: Message edited by: Nick Tamen ]

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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
I'd like to see Ruth's point explained a bit more. I can make a stab at the type of people she means, but I'd prefer to respond to a more considered rebuttal than guess at what's being put.

I'm on my phone at the laundromat, so it's hard to type a considered response, but there was a great article in the LA Times about Rust Belt Trump voters. Springsteen knew these folks were in trouble decades ago.
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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
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And a short video from Trae Crowder explaining why Trump is popular in his neck of the woods - the rural South. Watch all of this guy's videos - he's smart and hilarious and the real deal: a guy who grew up dirt poor in a tiny town in Tennessee.

The liberal redneck explains Trump's popularity.

[Using admin editing privileges to note that this guy cusses - not suitable for some workplaces and the ears of children who are not yet familiar with the word "fuck." ]

[ 01. November 2016, 01:31: Message edited by: RuthW ]

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Gramps49
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The major tracking polls show that there has been no change in the overall percentages for Clinton or Trump.

Early voting trends indicate Hillary is doing very well.

Now, there are indications that Trump is being investigated for his connections with the Russian government. May explain why Trump refuses to admit the Russians hacked the Democratic Party.

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simontoad
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Thanks Ruth. I reckon Gillian Welch might know a bit about these groups too. I'll read later, going through a bit of a mood thing today. I feel like I'm cack handed myself.

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Human

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Barnabas62
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Excellent insights from RuthW. That's a US version of the Brexit factor. Essentially it's a rejection of economic globalisation and a reversion to a more isolationist, nationalist viewpoint. And that seems to be touching hearts and minds in some of the key rural and urban voting areas. It's not just a rust efect. Charity begins at home. A protest vote; a 'peasants revolt'.

The maths of this election may be pointing towards a particularly bad place. Hillary Clinton can maintain her lead in the popular vote and receive an overall support of about 48 to 49%. Donald Trump is heading to something like 45 to 46%. Gary Johnson is trending down to about 4 to 5%. But the effect of these trends is disproportionate. They put the battleground ground states which favour Clinton more at risk than the battleground states which favour Trump.

538 is giving Clinton an 85% chance of winning the popular vote, a 75% chance of winning the election. Trump could get in with a 2% deficit on the popular vote. I think the odds still favour Hillary Clinton, but this now has all the signs of being a cliffhanger.

[ 01. November 2016, 07:05: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Eutychus
From the edge
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Slate has an intruguing story offering evidence of a hidden server connection between Trump Tower and a Russian bank over which traffic mirrored US political activity. The server was taken down after the Russian bank was invited to comment, the latter apparently having warned the other end, and replaced by another one shortly thereafter.

Will all this stuff simply go away on November 9 irrespective of the outcome, or fester?

[late edit for factual correction]

[ 01. November 2016, 07:29: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Barnabas62
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I think it is a factor already, Eutychus. The DNC are claiming that the FBI know about it and that Comey sat on the information from investigations 'to avoid prejudicing the election'. It's part of a current accusation of double standards.

The obvious difference is that the Clinton e-mails affair had been the subject of a very public investigation and conclusion. I think the DNC has a point, but I'm not sure it will have a major impact in these closing days. If Trump wins, the US internal and external security services will have a headache over this possible 'back channel', but it won't be the only headache around.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Martin60
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Thanks Nick in particular. That begins to make sense. Being dumb here, where are the former undecideds, the IF I vote I'll vote Trump, but I ain't vot'n' ... OK I am now, in the poll samples?

I've only just looked up Johnson the Libertarian. What the hell is that about? Ignorant rich = more money than brains, snobs? It's obvious his support will melt away to Trump apart from die hard protest voters. What a moron: the biggest threat in the world is North Korea whatever its leader is. The US equivalent of The 3rd Earl of Harrow RIP and his Monster Raving Loony Party, but without the charm.

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Love wins

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chris stiles
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Slate has an intruguing story offering evidence of a hidden server connection between Trump Tower and a Russian bank over which traffic mirrored US political activity.

The report is garbled enough that you have to read through the lines to guess part of what is being implied, without necessarily having any confidence that the interpretation thus gleaned is that accurate. So pretty much par for the course for any media reporting on technical/scientific matters.

The researchers quoted know their stuff though - so will be interested in seeing how this evolves.

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
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quote:
Originally posted by leftfieldlover:
A while ago there was a petition in the UK to ban Trump from coming here, which I signed. Because so many signed, it had to be debated in the House of Commons. It was decided that he should not be banned from UK. However, if he is elected POTUS (which I am afraid is looking more likely) what sort of reception will he get on his first Presidential visit? Her Maj will have to put him up at the Palace. Eek.

Just hope he doesn't grab her ... corgi.

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Penny S
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Well. corgi grabbing might lead to the tiny hands being hurt bigly!
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Martin60
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RuthW, Barnabas62. Yep. Trump refuses to adapt to globalization apart from negatively and Clinton can't positively. Strong hostile - negative trumps weak benevolent - positive for the white poor up in to the squeezed middle.

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Love wins

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beatmenace
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I just think in US Political History classes of the future people will ironically reflect that the election which kept the first woman out of the White House was largely decided by three men who couldn't keep it in their trousers...

Hopefully not to be the case though.

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"I'm the village idiot , aspiring to great things." (The Icicle Works)

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
RuthW, Barnabas62. Yep. Trump refuses to adapt to globalization apart from negatively and Clinton can't positively. Strong hostile - negative trumps weak benevolent - positive for the white poor up in to the squeezed middle.

The thing that's missing from this kind of analysis is that the non-white poor are experiencing the exact same economic conditions, and yet their support for Donald Trump is negligible. If Trump's support was driven by economic factors we wouldn't expect to see such a huge racial divide.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Gwai
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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
RuthW, Barnabas62. Yep. Trump refuses to adapt to globalization apart from negatively and Clinton can't positively. Strong hostile - negative trumps weak benevolent - positive for the white poor up in to the squeezed middle.

The thing that's missing from this kind of analysis is that the non-white poor are experiencing the exact same economic conditions, and yet their support for Donald Trump is negligible. If Trump's support was driven by economic factors we wouldn't expect to see such a huge racial divide.
Disagreed. It's just that non-white poor know that when people who are used to privilege don't get it, they want someone to blame. People know the squeezed white poor are going to angrily lash out at People of Color.

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A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.


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