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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: U.S. Presidential Election 2016
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
cf. Palinisms And that's just one year.
Seriously, the GOP should be very careful when they attack Clinton or Biden. They already have a huge gender and race gap to deal with. If they piss off enough of the white, older, male electorate with careless attacks on Biden, they're screwed.
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
I think Biden is ready to retire and if he jumps in the race it will be because Hillary is very vulnerable and the Democrats don't believe Sanders can win.
Yep.
Not sure the media really grasp the general public's complete hatred of both them and Billary/ Hillbilly.
She can win the party nomination, but I don't think she can win the general election.
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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
I think Biden is ready to retire and if he jumps in the race it will be because Hillary is very vulnerable and the Democrats don't believe Sanders can win.
Yep.
Not sure the media really grasp the general public's complete hatred of both them and Billary/ Hillbilly.
She can win the party nomination, but I don't think she can win the general election.
Depends on who she's running against. The GOP at this point seems entirely incapable of pulling their s**t together to put forward an even halfway credible candidate. Hilary, Biden, and even Sanders would have a cake walk against Trump. But, as has been noted already, it's early days still, so time will tell.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
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Posted
Here's a candidate for those voters who can't find anyone crazy enough in the GOP clown car.
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Re Biden--
He'd be much happier not running, IMHO. AIUI, he's only considering it because his son (Bo?), before he died, asked him to run. Maybe even made him promise to.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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irish_lord99
Shipmate
# 16250
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
I think Biden is ready to retire and if he jumps in the race it will be because Hillary is very vulnerable and the Democrats don't believe Sanders can win.
Yep.
Not sure the media really grasp the general public's complete hatred of both them and Billary/ Hillbilly.
She can win the party nomination, but I don't think she can win the general election.
"Complete hatred" may be an overstatement. I doubt many out there consider Hillary someone that they would 'like to have a drink with'; and a lot of people don't entirely trust her (including me). But a lot of us also remember how much better the middle and working classes had it under the Clinton administration and a lot of us want that back.
Personally, I don't find Hillary to be genuine, I don't entirely trust her, don't find her to be particularly charismatic, and I believe that her bid for the presidency is ultimately aimed at increasing her personal wealth.
But I'll still vote for her, because I believe that she is a shrewd, calculating political mover and I think that is what it takes to get stuff done. Bill can run as her VP for all I care.
Right now, any hope we have of closing the income inequality gap lies with Hillary. The GOP won't do it, and the rest of the DNC crew lacks the political awareness and/or capital to push the proper legislation through.
YMMV
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"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
Posts: 1169 | From: Maine, US | Registered: Feb 2011
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ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
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Posted
I don't think her ultimate goal is increasing her personal wealth. She is able to make plenty of money off lectures and books, and the Clintons already benefit from post-Presidential benefits.
If I had to attempt a view into her heart, I'd guess that she is motivated by a feeling of destiny and a longing to be a huge figure in history. Of course, that goes hand-in-glove with an immensely outsized ego, but in that regard, she hardly differs from other Presidential candidates, past and present.
Regarding the wealth gap in the US, the tax "reforms" coming from the clown car thus far involve even more tax cuts for the wealthy and token sums for everyone else. Hillary would never let such plans be enacted.
[ 14. September 2015, 01:47: Message edited by: ldjjd ]
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I find it worrying that the GOP candidates are all appalling. It would do Hillary good to have some credible opposition. As it is, people of sanity have no choice. There is no one else to vote for.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Re Biden--
He'd be much happier not running, IMHO. AIUI, he's only considering it because his son (Bo?), before he died, asked him to run. Maybe even made him promise to.
I think it would be tough for him to be on the campaign trail and suffer the inevitable attacks right now (which is rough at the best of times, much less when you're in mourning).
But I also think he's one of the few people who stands a chance at changing our ridiculous mediated national conversation. Part of me wants to see him run just for that.
Never thought I'd see the day when Joey seemed like the candidate voters can connect with.
quote:
Originally posted by irish_lord99:
"Complete hatred" may be an overstatement. I doubt many out there consider Hillary someone that they would 'like to have a drink with'; and a lot of people don't entirely trust her (including me). But a lot of us also remember how much better the middle and working classes had it under the Clinton administration and a lot of us want that back.
What makes you think electing Hillary will get the middle and working classes back the prosperity of the 90s?
"Complete hatred" is not an overstatement among the people I live around and work with. There's an uprising; people are tired of princesses, pretty lies, and manipulative gotcha games. A lot the people I know who supported her 2008 bid aren't in her corner this go-round.
quote:
Personally, I don't find Hillary to be genuine, I don't entirely trust her, don't find her to be particularly charismatic, and I believe that her bid for the presidency is ultimately aimed at increasing her personal wealth.
Right. She is one of the super-wealthy, one of the class that has made it perfectly clear that they are willing to do anything to preserve the power that they (in many cases undeservedly) hold.
This makes you think that she will enact policies that benefit the poor, working, and middle classes how?
quote:
But I'll still vote for her, because I believe that she is a shrewd, calculating political mover and I think that is what it takes to get stuff done. Bill can run as her VP for all I care.
Right now, any hope we have of closing the income inequality gap lies with Hillary. The GOP won't do it, and the rest of the DNC crew lacks the political awareness and/or capital to push the proper legislation through.
YMMV
And again I'm baffled by your belief that she has anyone's interests but her own (and her wealthy donors') in mind. You said it yourself - she's a shrewd, calculating, political mover.
She knows which side her bread is buttered on.
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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
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Posted
Not everyone who is wealthy wants to use politics to gain even more wealth, e.g., the Kennedys.
Hillary has not made her money off the backs of the middle class or poor, nor is she blind to their economic plight. I totally disagree with the idea that she is in this for the money.
Yes, she is calculating, ambitious, and clever. What successful politician isn't?
I think, though, that she has a firm moral (and I use that term in its best sense) center - something probably derived from her classic Methodist social gospel faith coupled with her near identification with Eleanor Roosevelt.
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
Not sure the media really grasp the general public's complete hatred of both them and Billary/ Hillbilly.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif) The "general public's" supposed hatred of the Clintons is largely an artifact of the media's deep and abiding genuine hatred of the Clintons. (e.g. the New York Time's massively inaccurate "scoop" on the Clinton e-mail "scandal".) The American public have never hated either of the Clintons with the degree of antipathy the press feels they should.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
And an awful lot of people want Hillary to break that glass ceiling.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Here is a quote from Trump:
quote:
Trump touted his tough-talking style as a plus.
"It's an attitude that our country needs. We get pushed around by everybody," he told Fox News, adding, "We have to push back."
Do Americans really believe anyone is pushing them around?!
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Not all Americans. But Trump does not speak for all. He speaks for ageing white working class men, a group that is indeed under stress and angry about their loss of privilege. One cannot but pity people who are no longer allowed to look down upon persons of ethnicity, sexual orientation, or gender. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
As the song says, they were taught to do it, when they were six or seven or eight. And now the world has changed. Trump is the voice of their dismay.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Do Americans really believe anyone is pushing them around?!
I'm not an American, but my impression is that most people American or not are tempted to believe everyone is pushing us around, and if you include under 'pushing around' as 'not moving when we push them anymore', more so.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
This filmlet is probably well known in the US, but when I first encountered it recently, it gave me enormous pleasure. The President scores some palpable hits on a target that to me thoroughly deserves it. And he does it with wit and humour.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
But Trump does not speak for all. He speaks for ageing white working class men, a group that is indeed under stress and angry about their loss of privilege.
Relative privilege. White working class men are certainly privileged compared to working class women and black working class men. But that doesn't mean that being working class isn't of itself a serious lack of privilege.
Being "spoken for" by a multi-millionaire is of itself a serious form of erasure.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
But Trump does not speak for all. He speaks for ageing white working class men, a group that is indeed under stress and angry about their loss of privilege.
Relative privilege. White working class men are certainly privileged compared to working class women and black working class men. But that doesn't mean that being working class isn't of itself a serious lack of privilege.
Being "spoken for" by a multi-millionaire is of itself a serious form of erasure.
Agreed. But apparently it is one that a significant segment of working/middle class white men are willing to engage.
I have wondered if it's something similar to what was observed in Southern opposition to abolition/civil rights. In, A Stone of Hope (David Chappell's meticulously researched history of the American civil rights movement) Chappell observed that the most vocal and passionate opposition to abolition of slavery and later of desegregation came not from wealthy white slaveowners, but from poor whites, even when in some ways that was contrary to their interests (if you abolish free slave labor that theoretically mean more low-paying jobs for poor workers, even as it would increase competition for those jobs). He suggests there is some psychological need to feel like "at least I'm not on the bottom rung"-- even when it means aligning with wealthy and privileged persons who certainly don't have your best interests at heart. I don't know if that's at play here or not, but as a casual observation there does seem to be some similarity.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
Trump has never frightened me, but lately, watching his rallies and the people surrounding him, excitedly taking selfies; I get a little depressed. I remember another time when an odd ball, outsider quickly rose to power by talking about "making the country great again," and blaming an ethnic group for all their problems. All sorts of nice people in Germany were praising him for "just saying what we're all thinking." I'm not hinting in any way that anything dire is in Trump's plans or in his supporters' minds. I'm just saying that I now have a better picture of how that all got started.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Do Americans really believe anyone is pushing them around?!
You know, if the Republicans were actually running a decent candidate, this thread would be a perfect illustration of why they would get elected.
Clinton can barely conceal her contempt at the vast majority of Americans. People have noticed.
Legislators in California, New York, and now congress are writing "safe campus" acts - laws that apply only to college students. People aren't even attempting to conceal the class warfare anymore.
There are tanks and soldiers in the streets sometimes, in most states the government doesn't have to charge you with a crime to seize your assets, and a lot of people have the bruises to prove just how much they have been pushed around.
But keep right on sneering. Y'all will be irrelevant soon enough.
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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Do Americans really believe anyone is pushing them around?!
You know, if the Republicans were actually running a decent candidate, this thread would be a perfect illustration of why they would get elected.
Don't hold back. Why?
And why do you think it is that the Republicans aren't running a decent candidate? What does that say about them that they can't/won't?
If there is class warfare on the part of the DNC (more likely, neglect from what I've seen), it's given excellent cover by the more extreme and visible class warfare on the part of the GOP. As has been noted above, Clinton and the DNC may not be very motivated to take some constituencies' concerns very seriously when the competition is the GOP clown car.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
You know, if the Republicans were actually running a decent candidate, this thread would be a perfect illustration of why they would get elected.
Clinton can barely conceal her contempt at the vast majority of Americans. People have noticed.
I have a few questions.
1. What would be the basic policies of this "decent" Republican candidate, and can you name a major Republican politician who advocates such policies?
2. Can you provide concrete examples of Hillary's supposed barely concealed contempt for the vast majority of Americans? Exactly what is it that "people have noticed" that demonstrates her contempt?
3. What do you feel are the most important policies that the next President should pursue?
4. Can you name a candidate who is dedicated to such policies and who stands a reasonable chance of being elected?
5. What is there in this tread that serves as an illustrstion of why a "decent" Republican could be elected?
[ 15. September 2015, 01:23: Message edited by: ldjjd ]
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
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ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
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Posted
By the way, I do not consider Hillary to be sinlessly perfect. I could come up with a list of other Democratic possibilities who would satisfy me completely.
However, I can think of none of them to be as likely as Hillary to win the general election, and the thought of the GOP in total control of Washington terrifies me.
[ 15. September 2015, 01:30: Message edited by: ldjjd ]
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Don't hold back. Why?
The general attitude of sneering, looking down upon the people doing the manual labor that keeps the world running, signalling class position through certain words, and talking and acting as if the superior class knows the real motivation of everyone better than they do.
People who don't understand why _American Sniper_ appeals to the majority can't effectively lead a population who finds _American Sniper_ appealing.
quote:
And why do you think it is that the Republicans aren't running a decent candidate? What does that say about them that they can't/won't?
Nobody has a decent candidate. The least evil wins...
quote:
If there is class warfare on the part of the DNC (more likely, neglect from what I've seen), it's given excellent cover by the more extreme and visible class warfare on the part of the GOP. As has been noted above, Clinton and the DNC may not be very motivated to take some constituencies' concerns very seriously when the competition is the GOP clown car.
Most people don't see the policy. They see the liar in front of them telling them pretty lies, and they feel the damage that gets done when they're told they have to pay more than they will ever earn for something they're required (by gov't) to have.
There's a legitimate frustration at the class war (because you're required to have things that can only be bought by engaging with people who treat you like shit).
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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
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Posted
saysay,
I don't understand this, "...they feel the damage that gets done when they're told they have to pay more than they will ever earn for something they're required (by gov't) to have."
Is this a reference to the Affordable Care Act?
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
But keep right on sneering. Y'all will be irrelevant soon enough.
Not sneering. Not at the American public, anyway. Trump is unequivocally the least qualified candidate in the mainstream race. I understand the frustration with the business as usual pols, but jumping on board the clown car is not the solution.
Trump has shown exactly zero understanding of how he would do anything, beyond touting his success in business. BTW, he has bankrupted several of those. And government is not, and should not, be run as a business anyway.
Trumps main success is in self-promotion. The world already buys the American brand, what does he bring to the table that is at all necessary?
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
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Posted
Here's an example from the past of outright hostility toward manual laborers and workers:
During the Great (Bush) Recession, Democrats repeartedly tried to extend and/or increase unemployment benefits, a vital matter for workers at a time when jobs were nearly impossible to find.
Republicans in Congress stalled and often blocked these humane attempts using lies ("there's plenty of jobs"), scare tactics ("we can't afford it, we'll become like Greece") and demonization ("lazy, alcohol and drug addicted freeloaders").
Here was Republican scorn, contempt, and supreme arrogance in full display. Contrast that with the Democrats. That's just one example.
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ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
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Posted
Mr. Trump openly snears at just about everyone who doesn't kiss his....feet.
[ 15. September 2015, 04:11: Message edited by: ldjjd ]
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
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GCabot
Shipmate
# 18074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
Here's an example from the past of outright hostility toward manual laborers and workers:
During the Great (Bush) Recession, Democrats repeartedly tried to extend and/or increase unemployment benefits, a vital matter for workers at a time when jobs were nearly impossible to find.
Republicans in Congress stalled and often blocked these humane attempts using lies ("there's plenty of jobs"), scare tactics ("we can't afford it, we'll become like Greece") and demonization ("lazy, alcohol and drug addicted freeloaders").
Here was Republican scorn, contempt, and supreme arrogance in full display. Contrast that with the Democrats. That's just one example.
Certainly a fair and balanced account of events.
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The child that is born unto us is more than a prophet; for this is he of whom the Savior saith: "Among them that are born of woman, there hath not risen one greater than John the Baptist."
Posts: 285 | From: The Heav'n Rescued Land | Registered: Apr 2014
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
And it's due to Reagan, IIRC, that recipients of unemployment benefits have to pay tax on them--essentially, paying a tax on a tax.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
saysay--
Yes, there absolutely is class warfare. But the campus laws I know of pertain specifically to problems that happen on campus (e.g., sweeping rape victims and cases under the rug). And lots of college students aren't from upper-class backgrounds.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Not all Americans. But Trump does not speak for all. He speaks for ageing white working class men, a group that is indeed under stress and angry about their loss of privilege. One cannot but pity people who are no longer allowed to look down upon persons of ethnicity, sexual orientation, or gender.
Brenda, thanks for that. As an outsider I was having difficulty understanding why
anyone would vote for him.
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by GCabot:
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
Here's an example from the past of outright hostility toward manual laborers and workers:
During the Great (Bush) Recession, Democrats repeartedly tried to extend and/or increase unemployment benefits, a vital matter for workers at a time when jobs were nearly impossible to find.
Republicans in Congress stalled and often blocked these humane attempts using lies ("there's plenty of jobs"), scare tactics ("we can't afford it, we'll become like Greece") and demonization ("lazy, alcohol and drug addicted freeloaders").
Here was Republican scorn, contempt, and supreme arrogance in full display. Contrast that with the Democrats. That's just one example.
Certainly a fair and balanced account of events.
Thank you.
I'd nevertheless be interested in a reality-based, non-spin justification for the cruel conduct of the Repblicans.
I admit that an extremely tiny number of GOP members of Congress did side with the unemployed. That sensible and compassionate stand took guts.
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
... Legislators in California, New York, and now congress are writing "safe campus" acts - laws that apply only to college students. ...
Many colleges and universities were established by state governments. This usually means that significant legal changes to their charters have to be approved by those same governments. Ditto for federal institutions and funding. Heck, my own institution had to get the provincial government to amend the Universities Act in order to ticket* mis-parked cars on campus. Pell grants were established by an act of Congress that applies <gasp> only to college students. O noes! And of course, lots and lots and lots of laws are written with specific groups of people in mind - e.g. only owners and drivers of motor vehicles have to have drivers' licenses and insurance.
---
*That was actually a pretty hilarious case. A student successfully appealed a parking ticket on the grounds that the university act did not authorize issuing tickets. However, the act still authorized the removal of vehicles from university property. So until the legislature got around to amending the act, everyone who mis-parked on campus, whether a few minutes over at a meter or blocking a fire hydrant or access ramp, GOT TOWED. It was insane. They were towing so many cars they had to set aside a whole level of one parkade for an impound lot.
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
...
I'd nevertheless be interested in a reality-based, non-spin justification for the cruel conduct of the Repblicans.....
Easy peasy - the Republican economic rules are very, very simple. If you want rich people to work harder, you have to give them more money. If you want poor people to work harder, you have to give them less money.
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
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I'd nevertheless be interested in a reality-based, non-spin justification for the cruel conduct of the Repblicans.....
Easy peasy - the Republican economic rules are very, very simple. If you want rich people to work harder, you have to give them more money. If you want poor people to work harder, you have to give them less money.
That makes a lot of sense. I was never quite sure about the Republican
tinkle down theory.
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GCabot
Shipmate
# 18074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
quote:
Originally posted by GCabot:
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
Here's an example from the past of outright hostility toward manual laborers and workers:
During the Great (Bush) Recession, Democrats repeartedly tried to extend and/or increase unemployment benefits, a vital matter for workers at a time when jobs were nearly impossible to find.
Republicans in Congress stalled and often blocked these humane attempts using lies ("there's plenty of jobs"), scare tactics ("we can't afford it, we'll become like Greece") and demonization ("lazy, alcohol and drug addicted freeloaders").
Here was Republican scorn, contempt, and supreme arrogance in full display. Contrast that with the Democrats. That's just one example.
Certainly a fair and balanced account of events.
Thank you.
I'd nevertheless be interested in a reality-based, non-spin justification for the cruel conduct of the Repblicans.
I admit that an extremely tiny number of GOP members of Congress did side with the unemployed. That sensible and compassionate stand took guts.
I am happy to have this discussion, but in private. I learned long ago not to try to explain such things among this pack of wolves.
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The child that is born unto us is more than a prophet; for this is he of whom the Savior saith: "Among them that are born of woman, there hath not risen one greater than John the Baptist."
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ldjjd
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# 17390
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Posted
In light of Hillary's non-partisan-motivated pending crucifixion over private e-mails, I've decided to avoid that dangerous form of communication.
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GCabot
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# 18074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
In light of Hillary's non-partisan-motivated pending crucifixion over private e-mails, I've decided to avoid that dangerous form of communication.
Ah well. Dum vita est, spes est.
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The child that is born unto us is more than a prophet; for this is he of whom the Savior saith: "Among them that are born of woman, there hath not risen one greater than John the Baptist."
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by GCabot:
Ah well. Dum vita est, spes est.
Translation?
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
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lilBuddha
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# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by GCabot:
Ah well. Dum vita est, spes est.
Translation?
While there is life there is hope
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
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cliffdweller
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# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
In light of Hillary's non-partisan-motivated pending crucifixion over private e-mails, I've decided to avoid that dangerous form of communication.
Actually, what I learned from both the Hilary faux scandal and the Sony hacking was that other people have far, far more interesting email correspondence than I do. I pity the poor NSA agent charged with pouring over my work emails, although I suppose if they suffer from insomnia they might come in useful...
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Barnabas62
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# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by GCabot:
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
In light of Hillary's non-partisan-motivated pending crucifixion over private e-mails, I've decided to avoid that dangerous form of communication.
Ah well. Dum vita est, spes est.
You may not have been watching the Styx recently, but we have confirmed that we do have a guideline which says if you use a foreign language tag, you have to provide a translation. In this case, someone else has kindly done that for you. But next time, do it yourself.
Barnabas62
Purgatory Host
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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ldjjd
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# 17390
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Posted
Any predictions for tonight's clown fest?
It looks like it's shaping up to be a gang attack on Trump, and I think it may well backfire.
Trump can unleash the vilest of his insults without seeming (in the minds of many) to be a bully, but rather a victim of an angry mob of losers.
[ 16. September 2015, 23:41: Message edited by: ldjjd ]
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ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
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Posted
Bush III wants to put Thatcher on the ten dollar bill?
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ldjjd
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# 17390
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Posted
I've always suspected that Ms. Fiorina is an ice queen, in which case, Trump's (repentant?) mention of her beauty would provide half the definition, and her actions at HP would provide the rest.
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Hillary was on the "Tonight Show" with Jimmy Fallon, Wed. night. It was awesome!
Jimmy impersonated Trump, having a phone convo with Hillary. Hilarious! Then there was a longish (for that show) interview. She was witty, and comfortably controlled, had great answers, and looked great.
Here are the official clips from NBC.
No transcripts yet--it's a late night show. But
OnPolitics has a review article, with quotes and still photos.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
Bush III wants to put Thatcher on the ten dollar bill?
I missed the debate, but just looked that up.
USA Today has this of other candidates' responses:
quote:
Chris Christie: Abigail Adams
John Kasich: Mother Theresa
Scott Walker: Clara Barton
Carly Fiorina: Wouldn't change it*
Donald Trump: His daughter, Ivanka Trump, or Rosa Parks
Ben Carson: His mother
Ted Cruz: Rosa Parks
Marco Rubio: Rosa Parks
Mike Huckabee: His wife
Rand Paul: Susan B. Anthony
(Carly Fiorina's response is more lengthy, but it's on that same page.
Interesting list.
Jeb's reasons made more sense than I expected, but he totally ignored the countless American women who would qualify. (I'll give him credit--he does at least know that Maggie wasn't American, and it would "probably be illegal".)
Kasich suggested Mother T. Does he know as much as Jeb??
Rosa Parks, with several votes, would be cool to have as the first woman on our paper money. (Unless I'm forgetting someone?)
But we tend to go farther into the past. Susan B. Anthony, women's rights activist, has a dollar coin. However, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, her friend and comrade in the struggle, would be a great choice. (Sacagawea, Native American cross-country guide to explorers Lewis & Clark (while she was pregnant!!), is also on a dollar coin.)
If Abigail would be chosen, there would need to be a spot on the bill for her quote "Remember the ladies", which she wrote to John Adams, her husband, when he was in the pre-revolutionary Continental Congress.
From that last link:
quote:
The future First Lady wrote in part, “I long to hear that you have declared an independency. And, by the way, in the new code of laws which I suppose it will be necessary for you to make, I desire you would remember the ladies and be more generous and favorable to them than your ancestors. Do not put such unlimited power into the hands of the husbands. Remember, all men would be tyrants if they could. If particular care and attention is not paid to the ladies, we are determined to foment a rebellion, and will not hold ourselves bound by any laws in which we have no voice or representation.”
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
I enjoyed those clips a lot. A bit of light relief from Corbyn politics in the UK. But very effective.
Seriously, Hillary really is a "tough mother". Presumably more of the same to follow, with Ellen deGeneres?
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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