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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: U.S. Presidential Election 2016
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
And there goes another one:
quote:
Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has suspended his presidential campaign, effectively ending a once-promising GOP presidential bid that collapsed amid tepid debate performances and other missteps.
"Today, I believe that I am being called to lead by helping to clear the field in this race so that a positive, conservative message can rise to the top," Walker said in a brief speech in Madison, Wisconsin, on Monday evening. "With this in mind, I will suspend my campaign immediately."
Once considered a top-tier contender, and he's gone before a single primary vote is cast.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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TurquoiseTastic
Fish of a different color
# 8978
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Posted
There was an interesting article in the Economist about the mysteries of the Republican primaries. Essentially it said that the voters seem to be so set against perceived "insiders" - classified as virtually anyone with political experiences - that they will turf out even someone as impeccably conservative as Walker because he is part of the "political elite". On the other hand they are giving perceived "non-politicos" like Trump much more slack even though they are not nearly as conservative on some issues.
I think there's something to this - I think the Republican grassroots think things are slipping away from them and they blame the people in power. In fact they are even angrier with the conservatives in power, because traitors are even worse than enemies.
Posts: 1092 | From: Hants., UK | Registered: Jan 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
A circling of the wagons?
I hadn't thought about it much before, but there may be something in the concept of a "laager mentality" within the GOP.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
The other charming report making the rounds is that God told Walker to drop out.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
The other charming report making the rounds is that God told Walker to drop out.
Considering that Walker claims God told him to run in the first place this isn't surprising. From God's similar message to Rick Perry telling him to run this time around I think the only thing to conclude is that God gets his kicks by watching these guys flame out spectacularly in the polls. I think He told four different candidates to run last time, including Michele Bachmann.
Remember, if God tells you to run in the Republican presidential primaries He's probably just doing it for the lulz.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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TurquoiseTastic
Fish of a different color
# 8978
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
A circling of the wagons?
I hadn't thought about it much before, but there may be something in the concept of a "laager mentality" within the GOP.
Well, no, not really! If that were the case, rock solid conservatives like Walker would be in the laager and dubious fly-by-nights like Trump would be out. But it's the other way round!
Posts: 1092 | From: Hants., UK | Registered: Jan 2005
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
Remember, if God tells you to run in the Republican presidential primaries He's probably just doing it for the lulz.
one for the quotes file.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
The other charming report making the rounds is that God told Walker to drop out.
I wish God would have a chat with Donald Trump. (Maybe he has, and the Donald just thinks he knows better.)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
After the last debate, many commentators said that Trump had his balls cut off. And now he's whining about how offensive that was ... gosh, Donald, those gender-based insults really sting, don't they? ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Obviously he is bleeding...somewhere.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Is Carson catching Trump? It looks like it.
I suppose that as other (more typical) GOP candidates drop out the most popular alternative to Trump is likely to pick up more of their votes. Which suggests that running second behind Trump might be a good place to be. And Carson now looks to be a clear second.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Komensky
Shipmate
# 8675
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Posted
Perhaps Trump is trying to emulate Carson's appeal to evangelicals. Have you seen this toe-curling video?
K.
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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 1784 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2004
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
No, I hadn't. Where's the brain bleach?
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
Did anyone notice the "posted by" credit?!
Hilarious!
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Komensky
Shipmate
# 8675
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Did anyone notice the "posted by" credit?!
Hilarious!
I missed it. Where is it?
K.
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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 1784 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2004
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
The link said "Video posted by Tomorra Burns" which I reckoned was a misprint/misspell of Tomarra Burns , who I'm pretty sure is married to Pastor Mark Burns.
Those are Facebook links btw.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
And in other news:
"Ben Carson Preaches Theocracy At Georgia Megachurch" (Patheos)
Yeah, the fundamental errors here are mind-blowing. As is the notion that a successful, educated African-American is waxing nostalgic over America's supposedly "Christian" (and slave-owning) founding fathers.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
I didn't realize that the dims had their own Trump until tonight!
Bernie Sanders is like some over the top Seinfeld character. Every time he opens his mouth I crack up!
And I haven't seen five whiter people on one stage since I caught the Moody Blues back in high school.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
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Posted
Aside from the fact that he is Jewish, I see no similarity between Sanders and any Seinfeld character. What do you find so hilarious about him?
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Wow, a presidential debate with no race-baiting, no slurs against women or immigrants, no mud-slinging.... This is how it's done by grown-ups, GOP.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
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Posted
"whiter people"?
How is one's degree of whiteness determined? I'd like to know exactly how white I am since that's very, very important, so please tell me your criteria.
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
How is one's degree of whiteness determined?
Pantone numbers?
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
"whiter people"?
How is one's degree of whiteness determined? I'd like to know exactly how white I am since that's very, very important, so please tell me your criteria.
If I remember my history, paper bags are usually involved.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
How is one's degree of whiteness determined?
Pantone numbers?
DMC.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Feel free to explore Carson's stance on evolution in Dead Horses. But not here.
Barnabas62
Purgatory Host
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Bernie Sanders is like some over the top Seinfeld character. Every time he opens his mouth I crack up!
And I haven't seen five whiter people on one stage since I caught the Moody Blues back in high school.
BTW, congratulations to American Jews! Apparently according to the people who judge such things you're now "white"*. Your backlogged applications to various country clubs will now be processed. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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*Offer void in Mississippi.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
In the US there are honorary white people. This is nearly always closed to black people (google the word 'octoroon' if you like). Occasionally achieved by intermarriage, but more often tincture of time is responsible. A batch of immigrants (Chinese, Irish) come in and in spite of vehement discrimination and outright violence hang on, keep their noses down, and assimilate like fury, using tactics like naming the kids. My name is Brenda, my siblings Lesley and Phillip, my first cousins Stewart, Andrew, Ronald, Frederick, Nivin, Douglas. You would bet we were WASPs, and you would be wrong; it's assimilation at work. It also calls for scaling the financial and educational ladder; none of us could manage it but when my daughter graduated from Stanford there was a collective sigh of relief.
In two or three generations the newcomers are nominally white. If they work it right (Italians) they get their own national holiday (Columbus Day) and their ethnic cuisine is deemed American as apple pie (pizza). Asians are now a 'model minority'; they now discriminate against them in college admissions because otherwise Berkeley or MIT would be solidly Asian, with nary a white face to be seen.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
In the US there are honorary white people. This is nearly always closed to black people (google the word 'octoroon' if you like). Occasionally achieved by intermarriage, but more often tincture of time is responsible. A batch of immigrants (Chinese, Irish) come in and in spite of vehement discrimination and outright violence hang on, keep their noses down, and assimilate like fury, using tactics like naming the kids.
Another example of American assimilation via naming:
quote:
Superman, you don't think he's Jewish? Coming over from the old country, changing his name like that. Clark Kent, only a Jew would pick a name like that for himself.
From The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Sorry, Brenda. I think you'll have to explain this to us non-Americans. I accept that the Chinese are Chinese. But wherever else they may be on the social ladder as one time immigrants, if you are Irish, Italian or Jewish - or for that matter Ukrainian, Litvak or Swedish, all are white. If that is not the case, then 'white' isn't being used with quite the same meaning as the rest of the world understands it.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Pancho
Shipmate
# 13533
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Sorry, Brenda. I think you'll have to explain this to us non-Americans. I accept that the Chinese are Chinese. But wherever else they may be on the social ladder as one time immigrants, if you are Irish, Italian or Jewish - or for that matter Ukrainian, Litvak or Swedish, all are white. If that is not the case, then 'white' isn't being used with quite the same meaning as the rest of the world understands it.
For much of U.S. history, it wasn't enough to be caucasian to be socially acceptable. One had to be a certain kind of caucasian. This excluded Europeans of Irish, Jewish, Southern and Eastern European descent and it meant they often faced descrimination and negative social attitudes. These attitudes only changed with time, assimilation, and other things. This is what some people mean when they talk of certain ethnic groups "becoming white."
Posts: 1988 | From: Alta California | Registered: Mar 2008
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Bernie Sanders is like some over the top Seinfeld character. Every time he opens his mouth I crack up!
And I haven't seen five whiter people on one stage since I caught the Moody Blues back in high school.
BTW, congratulations to American Jews! Apparently according to the people who judge such things you're now "white"*.
I had no idea looking at him how he occupies his imagination.
What exactly was the visual cue that I missed that identified him as Jewish?
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
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Posted
Who suggested that there were visual cues?
A little research into the candidates' backgrounds would alert one to the fact that Sanders is Jewish (and that Hillary is a Methodist, Huck is a Southern Baptist, Rubio is a Catholic who often attends an Evangelical megachurch, etc.) It's information that's out there in abundance.
Nevertheless, I do find it interesting that you happened to compare him to a Seinfeld character. There are plenty of amusing non-Jewish characters in other popular sitcoms.
[ 14. October 2015, 23:50: Message edited by: ldjjd ]
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
Who suggested that there were visual cues?
He looks like an old white guy to me.
I don't know what a Jew looks like.
I don't research candidates who will never get my vote. Namely dims and republicans.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Yes 'white' in this context actually doesn't have much to do with skin color. It has more to do with being accepted in the main culture.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Re "white" vs. "Jewish":
In the TV show "Northern Exposure", the season 4 "Thanksgiving" episode, Joel, Jewish doctor from New York, finds out that the local Alaskan natives have a Thanksgiving tradition of throwing tomatoes at white people. He gets very upset and says "I'm many things, but not white!"
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
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Posted
Sometimes assimilation into "white" culture results in being disparaged by members of the culture that has been apparently abandoned.
For example, an assimilated Asian may be called a "banana" (yellow on the outside - white on the inside) by other Asians.
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
It's not only "socially acceptable". Immigration quotas were set to get Northern Europeans and not southern ones like Italians or Sicilians.
As for Chinese and Japanese etc, the U.S. has a unique ethnic identity; "the Asian". that is not seen in Asia as an ethnic identity.
Catholics and Jews were seen as less than acceptable in many places. Now they are pretty much accepted but Muslims aren't.
No one said it was logical.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
This is getting even more mystifying. Obviously there's a huge difference between being the Earl of Cork and Orrery and an Irish tinker, but neither is likely to be black. Nor, for that matter is Terry Wogan.
I'm inclined to say 'pull the other one'.
Besides, when it comes to immigration quotas, I happen to know that it's far easier to immigrate into the USA with an Irish passport than with a UK one.
Asian here normally means India and Pakistan.
As for the suggestion that you can spot someone is Jewish just by looking at them, that sounds to me like some of the more odious propaganda of the Third Reich.
[ 15. October 2015, 08:45: Message edited by: Enoch ]
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Yes 'white' in this context actually doesn't have much to do with skin color. It has more to do with being accepted in the main culture.
I was once present at a conversation where most of the participants were of Ukrainian origin (some from the US, and others from Canada) who were discussing their cousin, who had married a white girl, although his previous spouse had been "one of us."
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Bernie Sanders is like some over the top Seinfeld character. Every time he opens his mouth I crack up! ...
What exactly was the visual cue that I missed that identified him as Jewish?
Oh, please. You make a Seinfeld reference and then try to pretend you didn't know he was Jewish? That dog won't hunt.
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
OK people, back on issues please. Tempting though analysis of another Shipmate's mindset may be, it's not exactly Purgatorial, is it?
Barnabas62
Purgatory Host
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
In related news, according to Mike Huckabee trusting a tricksy Jew like Sanders with your money is like trusting a Korean with your dog.
So "ha ha Koreans eat dogs" is what passes for wit amongst Republican presidential candidates?
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
It has always bemused me that Huckabee is (or was?) a minister. Gives Christianity a bad name.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
Was the Democratic debate too nice and unified?
I have read two interesting articles in the last 24 hours, both of which wonder why Bernie Sanders won't go on the attack, as he clearly needs to do if he is going to peel off enough votes from Clinton to get the nomination.
One from 538, in which it is suggested that Sanders can only influence the race, but will not win without doing something to take on Clinton.
And another (this one with quite a bit of NSFW language) expressing quite a bit of frustration with the pool of candidates. Opening line:
quote:
Ronald Reagan’s Secretary of the Navy, a Republican Senator, and Hillary Clinton walk into a bar. Bartender looks them over and says, “Christ, this is 60 percent of the Democratic presidential campaign field? You m***********s make Richard Nixon look like Leon Trotsky.” Then Jim Webb knifes him, because Jim Webb is a f******g maniac.
In all honesty, I can't see myself voting for any of the Republicans this year, but at least they are putting up a fight. Can anyone really take on Clinton, is anyone actually going to try, and what's the point of the debates if they don't?
(Yeah, I know Sanders won the non-scientific online polls. If those had any relation to how an election will actually turn out, Ron Paul would have been the Republican nominee the last two go-arounds.)
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
If I want entertainment, I can watch the World Wrestling Federation. In politicians I want intelligence, calm, and common-sense policy. These words cannot be applied to anyone in the GOP, lord knows. I think the Dems made a fine contrast, very attractive.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
... I have read two interesting articles in the last 24 hours, both of which wonder why Bernie Sanders won't go on the attack ....
quote:
“I’m very proud to say, I’ve never run a negative political ad in my entire life, and I’ve been attacked a whole lot,” Sanders responded.
CSM - Bernie Sanders
Since he's not a Christian, it just might be because he's decent.
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
There is, or rather should be, a difference between criticising an opponents policies and attacking them.
it can be done, it should work. What does it say about politicians and voters that it doesn't happen more?
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
Since he's not a Christian, it just might be because he's decent.
Are you implying something about Clinton?
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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