|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Purgatory: U.S. Presidential Election 2016
|
Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
There is, or rather should be, a difference between criticising an opponents policies and attacking them.
it can be done, it should work. What does it say about politicians and voters that it doesn't happen more?
It ain't nothing new. And this is between good friends.
--------------------
"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Was the Democratic debate too nice and unified?
I have read two interesting articles in the last 24 hours, both of which wonder why Bernie Sanders won't go on the attack, as he clearly needs to do if he is going to peel off enough votes from Clinton to get the nomination.
Given the criticisms Sanders has leveled at Clinton's proposed policies (her previous TPP stance, her support of the Iraq War, her support of the surveillance state, etc.), I can only take this to mean you think Sanders should go on the personal attack against Hillary Clinton. Something along the lines of "you look stupid and girls have cooties", perhaps?
Interestingly the American media seems to be pining for something like that. All the back-and-forth, will-he-won't-he speculation about Joe Biden is their form of wishful thinking that they won't have to cover a policy debate and can instead cover a Reality TV-style clash of personalities, which is a lot easier. The Republican primaries have spoiled them!
And this is interesting.
quote:
Republican presidential contender Dr. Ben Carson has put his public campaign events on hold for two more weeks to go on book tour for his new tome “A More Perfect Union” and catch up on fundraising events.
Just in case anyone was actually wondering whether Carson's campaign was a serious political effort or just a PR stunt.
[ 15. October 2015, 21:00: Message edited by: Crœsos ]
--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
|
Posted
I certainly wouldn't advise personal attacks, no. 538 noted that the only really pointed attack of the night was Clinton's against Sanders' history on gun votes, while Deadspin pointed out that Sanders just sat there while Clinton justified her vote for the patriot act.
I suppose that you could set out your view and assume that everyone will do the research and see that your opponent has a different view. But if you are 20% down in the polls, you better come up with a way to let people know why they should switch affiliation.
Obama was looking at similar numbers in October 2007, and he managed to close the gap. But he didn't do it without pressing Clinton on her positions.
--------------------
"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
There is, or rather should be, a difference between criticising an opponents policies and attacking them.
it can be done, it should work. What does it say about politicians and voters that it doesn't happen more?
It ain't nothing new. And this is between good friends.
Never said it was new. But the difference, as far as I can ascertain, is the remarks quoted in that video seem very apparently hyperbolic. The attacks of today much less so.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
|
Posted
Re Carson and publicity stunt:
--Running for president seems to be a rite of passage for a lot of (male) people. Or like the brass ring on a carousel--they may not be able to catch it, but they want to try to touch it. And some may simply be deluded about their chances.
--IIRC, the previous time Romney ran, he and his wife took time off for a vacation in...the Caribbean. Not *necessarily* a huge deal--campaigning is very stressful. But AFAIK, candidates just don't do that. It occasioned much media murmuring.
He said that he didn't really want to run, that it was his wife's idea. So why did he run this time? (Is he still in the race?)
--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
quote:
Golden Key: --Running for president seems to be a rite of passage for a lot of (male) people.
Sometimes I have the feeling that also a lot of money can be made by running (and afterwards). I don't know to which extent this is true.
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
Interestingly the American media seems to be pining for something like that. All the back-and-forth, will-he-won't-he speculation about Joe Biden is their form of wishful thinking that they won't have to cover a policy debate and can instead cover a Reality TV-style clash of personalities, which is a lot easier. The Republican primaries have spoiled them!
Yes. The old standard for the media used to be "bread and circuses", but it does seem that the need for bread gets put more and more on the back burner. Or, worse, the circus show is presented as though it was bread. That's bad for democracy.
--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
... And this is interesting. ...
No it's not.
Sorry. Just couldn't resist it. ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
Golden Key: --Running for president seems to be a rite of passage for a lot of (male) people.
Sometimes I have the feeling that also a lot of money can be made by running (and afterwards). I don't know to which extent this is true.
With the name recognition of a presidential run, there is absolutely a lot of money to be made on the speaking circuit, and a far far easier gig than a real job like being president. For Republicans there also is the very real possibility of parlaying that name recognition into a very well paid and equally cushy gig as Fox News commentator, as Huckabee and Palin have done. Gingrich spent most of his run last time on his book tour, very clearly that was his real agenda. The vast majority of the GOP candidates, and possibly a chunk of the Dems as well, seem to have these sort of auxiliary but far more lucrative money-making schemes in mind.
[ 16. October 2015, 13:06: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]
--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
|
Posted
Carson is taking some time off to promote his book. None of these people have the least interest in the work of governance. They are abusing the political system for their own personal aggrandizement.
--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Carson is taking some time off to promote his book. None of these people have the least interest in the work of governance. They are abusing the political system for their own personal aggrandizement.
What else is new? It seems like the only people who should govern should be those who'd prefer not to.
--------------------
"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
|
Posted
I will beg hostly indulgence to mention that Saturday Night Live cast Seinfeld co-creator Larry David as Bernie Sanders in this week's cold open. So it wasn't just one shipmate thinking it.
--------------------
"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Carson is taking some time off to promote his book. None of these people have the least interest in the work of governance. They are abusing the political system for their own personal aggrandizement.
What else is new? It seems like the only people who should govern should be those who'd prefer not to.
For the last few years, we've had a run of Republican elected officials laboring under the explicit mantra that "government is the problem." Thus they have no interest whatsoever in seeing government work-- to actually solve problems. And, big surprise, what we have found is a government officials from appointed lackeys (remember "good job, Brownie"?) to Congress who prove the proposition thru their utter incompetence.
In contrast, one of the most charming aspects of Bernie Sanders' run so far was his announcement: a simple, brief press conference held just outside the Congressional chambers where he serves. The official statement was preceded by his announcement that he was going to make a brief (and it actually was!) statement followed by just a few questions, then he needed to get back to work. I realize it may have all been for show, but it sent the message that Sanders is a hard-working man who takes his job seriously, and gives a good day's work for a day's wage.
--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
That's bad for democracy.
Saw a snippet of a programme in which John Cleese stated that democracy is dead. I'm not sure he was completely wrong.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Carson is taking some time off to promote his book. None of these people have the least interest in the work of governance. They are abusing the political system for their own personal aggrandizement.
What else is new? It seems like the only people who should govern should be those who'd prefer not to.
{Cue The Man Who Rules The Universe, from the H2G2 books, enter stage right.}
--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
|
Posted
I forget which Arthur C. Clarke SF novel it was in which the future World President was always chosen from people who had other careers and did not want the job. (The World Computer did the choosing, which probably was worth its construction right there.) The idea was that if you did not want the job you did it well in hopes of getting time off for good behavior. Running for the job explicitly disqualified you for ever.
--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
| IP: Logged
|
|
Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
|
Posted
I've got a friend who is running for State House in my district. He is a really nice guy, who has been working very hard to understand the issues, and he genuinely cares about the people around us. I can see that he is passionate about winning the seat, and that he sincerely believes that he has the best interest of his constituents in mind. And it is that passion that has me supporting him, even though we don't see eye to eye on all of the issues.
Which is all to say that the "only those people who have no interest in seeking office should govern" line sounds great in sci-fi novels, but I think it would probably deprive us of the services of some very capable and passionate folks who really want to make a difference.
--------------------
"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
|
Posted
Looks like we won't have Jim Webb to kick around anymore.
quote:
Jim Webb will end his bid for the Democratic presidential nomination at a press conference Tuesday, according to two sources with knowledge of the decision.
Or maybe we will:
quote:
The former Virginia senator who launched a longshot presidential bid earlier this year is considering an independent run, according to his campaign.
--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I forget which Arthur C. Clarke SF novel it was in which the future World President was always chosen from people who had other careers and did not want the job. (The World Computer did the choosing, which probably was worth its construction right there.) The idea was that if you did not want the job you did it well in hopes of getting time off for good behavior. Running for the job explicitly disqualified you for ever.
Probably Imperial Earth:
quote:
For the last century, almost all top political appointments [on the planet Earth] had been made by random computer selection from the pool of individuals who had the necessary qualifications. It had taken the human race several thousand years to realize that there were some jobs that should never be given to the people who volunteered for them, especially if they showed too much enthusiasm. As one shrewd political commentator had remarked: “We want a President who has to be carried screaming and kicking into the White House — but will then do the best job he possibly can, so that he’ll get time off for good behavior.
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
Sounds just like jury duty.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
--------------------
"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
|
Posted
Joe Biden will not be running.
I got the feeling from watching his appearance on Colbert a few weeks ago that this was coming- he was obviously dealing with some serious heartbreak, and he deserves some down time.
In the interview with Colbert, he was asked how he dealt with so much personal loss. His answer was something I (and probably many of you) could appreciate deeply. He said that he turned to daily Mass and the Rosary. Because when all else fails, you know the words are going to be the same every time, and you can just be still. I have had issues with Biden's public comportment in the past, but I can't feel anything but love for someone who will express that anywhere, much less on national television. ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
--------------------
"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Joe Biden will not be running.
From a Democratic perspective, the only decent reasons for a Biden run for the presidency at this late stage of the campaign-forming process would be:
- Joe Biden is significantly more electable than current prohibitive front runner Hillary Clinton
- Joe Biden has significantly better policy positions than current prohibitive front runner Hillary Clinton
Neither of these is particularly clear. In fact, they both seem deeply counter-factual.
- Joe Biden has already made two presidential primary runs. In the first he flamed out early in a process that ultimately nominated Michael Dukakis. Twenty years later he withdrew after a fifth place finish, right behind Bill Richardson, in a primary where Hillary Clinton came very close to getting the nomination. The idea that Biden would be a better campaigner than Clinton seems to defy the historical record.
- It would be hard to find two national-level Democratic politicians whose policy positions are closer than Biden and Clinton. The one difference is that the former senator from Delaware is actually more sympathetic to Big Finance than the former Senator from New York. This is not a plus from the perspective of the median Democratic voter.
Biden seems to have made the right call by staying where he is, both from a personal perspective (he's probably not emotionally ready for the rigors of a primary campaign) and from the perspective of his party.
--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
|
Posted
Bad news for the GOP.
They were hoping that Biden would enter. A primary fight with Hillary would have drained Democratic resources and perhaps somewhat weakened support for Hillary. If Biden could somehow have won the primary, he would have been soundly defeated by several, if not most, of the clowns.
I never trusted the one or two polls that claimed Biden would do better than Hillary against the clowns. Polls can easily be manipulated via the polling process.
This has been a great couple of weeks for Hillary. Tomorrow is likely to bring even more good news.
[ 22. October 2015, 01:03: Message edited by: ldjjd ]
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
Bad news for the GOP.
Eh? I'd say it's great news for them.
quote:
If Biden could somehow have won the primary, he would have been soundly defeated by several, if not most, of the clowns.
The opposite. There's almost no way he could have won the primary, but he would have been a lot more likely to win the general.
quote:
This has been a great couple of weeks for Hillary. Tomorrow is likely to bring even more good news.
Why? (Seriously, why would you think that?)
Her decisions on Libya were atrocious and illustrate every reason everyone has for opposing her as a presidential candidate.
--------------------
"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
|
Posted
Your first two statement were addressed in the post immediately prior to yours.
More to come.
[ 22. October 2015, 03:43: Message edited by: ldjjd ]
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
|
Posted
I don't think that anyone can deny that it's been a very, very good two weeks for Hillary.
Her debate performance is widely considered to be outstandiing, if not absolutely perfect.
The Benghazi Committee has been exposed (by Republicans!) as a costly, unnecessary, redundant, ultra-partisan attempt to go after Hillary rather than a legitimate effort to guard against future embassy attacks.
There is a good chance that tomorrow Hillary will deliver the long overdue coup de grace to that pathetic committee.
So, we shall see tomorrow if Hillary's good times continue.
[ 22. October 2015, 04:00: Message edited by: ldjjd ]
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
|
Posted
Could you flesh out this statement?
"Her decisions on Libya were atrocious and illustrate every reason everyone has for opposing her as a presidential candidate."
Which decisions on Libya were "atrocious"? What should she have done differently?
I wish that diplomatic efforts in North Africa and the Middle East were as simple as you seem to feel them to be. Unfortunately, that has not been the case for decades at the very least.
What makes you think that different decisions (whatever they may have been) would have guaranteed benign results in such an incredibly unpredictable setting?
[ 22. October 2015, 04:17: Message edited by: ldjjd ]
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
|
Posted
Looks like the participants are now set for Republican Debate Part III, the Debatening! Those participating in the main event will be the same as last time, minus dropout Scott Walker. As a reminder they are:
- Republican Frontrunner Donald Trump (0)
- Ben Carson (0)
- Marco Rubio (+2)
- J.E.B. Bush (-1)
- Carly Fiorina (+1)
- Ted Cruz (-2)
- Mike Huckabee (0)
- Chris Christie (+2)
- John Kasich (0)
- Rand Paul (-2)
There's been a bit of shuffling of the podium order, but the top ten seems stable (aside from the departure of Walker). The four participating in the undercard event will be:
- Rick Santorum
- Bobby Jindal
- George Pataki
- Lindsey Graham
Same as last time, except minus Rick Perry.
In related news, Ben Carson polled as beating Donald Trump in Iowa for the first time. Trump handled this development with all the poise and grace we've come to expect from his campaign.
--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
|
Posted
And originality. The man never fails to astonish.
--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
|
Posted
I watched some of Hillary Clinton's appearance at the Benghazi hearing. This struck me as a reasonable summary.
As someone outside the US, and from what I saw today, this comment from the article strikes me as pretty much on the mark.
quote:
The contentious exchange between Gowdy and Cummings underscores the increasing pressure on the committee to produce evidence of misconduct by Clinton or forever be labeled a taxpayer-funded political attack designed to damage her presidential campaign.
--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
|
Posted
Up to now, I think the Inquisition Committee hoped to drag along for another year and two weeks. Then, after the 2016 election, their report would essentially say, "Never mind. We uncovered nothing."
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
|
Posted
It's finally over. In withstanding that eleven hour Star Chamber ordeal, I think Hillary emerges looking extremely Presidential. I'd therefore call it another great day for her.
I'll be very interested in surveys of the public's reaction.
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
If she can give Putin the look that she sometimes gives Gowdy, you've got half of your diplomatic problems solved.
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
|
Posted
There's a great image making the rounds, of a comic-book-art Hillary, unsmiling and steely. She is saying, "You don't understand. I am not locked in here with you. You are locked in here with me." (ID that quote!)
--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
| IP: Logged
|
|
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
There's a great image making the rounds, of a comic-book-art Hillary, unsmiling and steely. She is saying, "You don't understand. I am not locked in here with you. You are locked in here with me." (ID that quote!)
I'll do better than that. I'll source the image.
--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
|
Posted
Now we know that she knew all along she and the administration was not being truthful with the American people when they claimed the Benghazi attack was over a film.
--------------------
"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
|
Posted
And then there were three.
quote:
Former Rhode Island Gov. Lincoln Chafee ended his long-shot bid for the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination, he announced at a Washington event Friday.
"As you know I have been campaigning on a platform of Prosperity Through Peace," Chafee said at the DNC's annual Women's Leadership Forum in Washington. "But after much thought I have decided to end my campaign for president today. I would like to take this opportunity one last time to advocate for a chance be given to peace."
--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Now we know that she knew all along she and the administration was not being truthful with the American people when they claimed the Benghazi attack was over a film.
"We"?
Can you point to the exact testimony where this was established?
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Now we know that she knew all along she and the administration was not being truthful with the American people when they claimed the Benghazi attack was over a film.
"We"?
Can you point to the exact testimony where this was established?
It's from a report released by the demcocrats on the house select committee on Benghazi. Page 28, towards the bottom,
quote:
Later that afternoon, Secretary Clinton had a call with the Egyptian Prime Minister Hesham Kandil regarding the events in Cairo and Libya. The notes from that call indicate that the Secretary relayed information consistent with reporting at the time: “We know that the
attack in Libya had nothing to do with the film. It was a planned attack—not a protest.” The notes also indicate that she acknowledged that Ansar al-Sharia reportedly claimed responsibility for the attacks: “Your not kidding. Based on the information we saw today we believe the group that claimed responsibility for this was affiliated with al Qaeda.”
Whatever this may do in the primaries in my state in about 5 months or in the general election is early to tell, but probably not much. Folks are talking about the beloved Carolina Panthers, not politics. What is it, anyway, maybe 90% or more of the voters vote the way they always have?
--------------------
"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
|
Posted
I don't think it's anywhere near as clear-cut as your apparent belief in a Clinton/Rice/Obama conspiracy theory.
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
I don't think it's anywhere near as clear-cut as your apparent belief in a Clinton/Rice/Obama conspiracy theory.
That link shows Fox News being irresponsible in their reporting. Fox News! Someone get a fan and smelling salts, I think I shall faint.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
I don't think it's anywhere near as clear-cut as your apparent belief in a Clinton/Rice/Obama conspiracy theory.
I do.
--------------------
"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
I don't think it's anywhere near as clear-cut as your apparent belief in a Clinton/Rice/Obama conspiracy theory.
I do.
Well, I believe this (from the link)
quote:
What those who focus on the questions of the amount of pre-planning and the role of the YouTube seem to miss is that the answers to those questions make no difference to the bottom line: That the attacks were terrorism and that the terrorists murdered four Americans. And they make no difference to the most important point going forward—that the U.S. must do the best job it can in protecting its diplomatic, intelligence and military personnel serving in dangerous places.
That article describes the real world of confusion and conflicting advice and differing opinions at the time. Rather than an imaginary world of immediate omniscient knowledge and understanding. 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing of course.
--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
|
Posted
Apparently J.E.B. Bush is having to curtail campaign spending already.
quote:
Jeb Bush, once a front-runner for the Republican presidential nomination, is slashing pay across the board for his struggling campaign as he attempts to regain traction just 100 days before the party’s first nominating contest.
The campaign is removing some senior staff from the payroll, parting ways with some consultants, and downsizing its Miami headquarters to save more than $1 million per month and cut payroll by 40 percent this week, according to Bush campaign officials who requested anonymity to speak about internal changes. Senior leadership positions remain unchanged.
The campaign is also cutting back 45 percent of its budget, except for dollars earmarked for TV advertising and spending for voter contacts, such as phone calls and mailers. Some senior-level staff and consultants will continue to work with the campaign on a volunteer basis, while other junior-level consultants, primarily in finance but including other areas, will be let go, the officials said.
From the memo itself:
quote:
It's no secret that the contours of this race have changed from what was anticipated at the start. We would be less than forthcoming if we said we predicted in June that a reality television star supporting Canadian-style single-payer health care and partial-birth abortion would be leading the GOP primary.
For some reason this reads to me like a snippier version of Hirohito's declaration that "the war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage". I'm actually a bit surprised that J.E.B. isn't better at "the family business".
From the New York Times* on the same subject:
quote:
"Belt tightening is one thing, but sometimes you need to change pants," said a Republican strategist who insisted on anonymity to speak candidly.
That's, uh, pretty candid. And graphic.
--------------------
*The New York Times has a paywall that allows non-subscribers to read 10 articles for free per calendar month. Only click through if you're a NYT subscriber or are willing to use one of your ten monthly Times passes on a vaguely scatological analysis of the J.E.B. Bush primary campaign.
--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
I don't think it's anywhere near as clear-cut as your apparent belief in a Clinton/Rice/Obama conspiracy theory.
I do.
Well, I believe this (from the link)
quote:
What those who focus on the questions of the amount of pre-planning and the role of the YouTube seem to miss is that the answers to those questions make no difference to the bottom line: That the attacks were terrorism and that the terrorists murdered four Americans. And they make no difference to the most important point going forward—that the U.S. must do the best job it can in protecting its diplomatic, intelligence and military personnel serving in dangerous places.
That article describes the real world of confusion and conflicting advice and differing opinions at the time. Rather than an imaginary world of immediate omniscient knowledge and understanding. 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing of course.
Hillary and the admin knew better yet kept pumping crap for some reason about a video. Pols should just tell us the truth and if they don't know it yet, just say so instead of making shit up.
--------------------
"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
I don't think it's anywhere near as clear-cut as your apparent belief in a Clinton/Rice/Obama conspiracy theory.
I do.
Well, I believe this (from the link)
quote:
What those who focus on the questions of the amount of pre-planning and the role of the YouTube seem to miss is that the answers to those questions make no difference to the bottom line: That the attacks were terrorism and that the terrorists murdered four Americans. And they make no difference to the most important point going forward—that the U.S. must do the best job it can in protecting its diplomatic, intelligence and military personnel serving in dangerous places.
That article describes the real world of confusion and conflicting advice and differing opinions at the time. Rather than an imaginary world of immediate omniscient knowledge and understanding. 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing of course.
One thing was made clear during Clinton's testimony yesterday.
She knew almost immediately that the attack was not a response to any kind of video, and communicated as much to her family as well as the Egyptian PM.
Two days later at Andrews AFB she told the families otherwise, even going so far as to suggest to the sister of one victim that she should feel sorry for the Libyan people that they are so ignorant and easily provoked to violence.
She is a liar and a shit human being, but those facts were well established long before this testimony or even her appointment to State.
--------------------
"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Pols should just tell us the truth and if they don't know it yet, just say so instead of making shit up.
I agree with this statement. When will the Benghazi committee admit to their true motivations, then?
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Thread closed
Printer-friendly view
