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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: U.S. Presidential Election 2016
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
Well, then there was last night's debate.
After months of the metaphorical d*** swinging, they decided to go literal:
NWS moments from a so-called "presidential" debate.
I'm trying to figure out what's left for SNL to use for the opening sketch Saturday night. The GOP has already turned into their own parody sketch. Lorne Michaels will have to just replay the actual clip, then have a cast member walk out and say "live from NY it's Saturday night".
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
One of the comments -
"Reality check: No one actually knows how to stop Donald Trump. If they knew, he would be stopped by now."
True ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Sure, pull just two words out of the whole speech. That's an honest method of argument that will surely be appreciated by people on the opposite side of the political spectrum. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
The phrase is "deadening egalitarianism of radical systems." I would bet Kirk had Mao's bullshit in mind, and none of us here espouses the notion that the cultural elite need to be sent to re-education camps. As a liberal, I want an egalitarian society. But I am never going to convince a conservative to join with me in working for that if I give no credence to what he or she sees as the senseless and potentially dangerous notion that everyone should get a trophy when some worked a lot harder and played the game better.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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The Riv
Shipmate
# 3553
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Posted
I just wish that Christopher Hitchens was still alive to comment on all of this. ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
Posts: 2749 | From: Too far South, USA. I really want to move. | Registered: Nov 2002
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Well, then there was last night's debate.
After months of the metaphorical d*** swinging, they decided to go literal:
NWS moments from a so-called "presidential" debate.
Actual headline on CNN right now: Donald Trump defends size of his penis.
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Sure, pull just two words out of the whole speech. That's an honest method of argument that will surely be appreciated by people on the opposite side of the political spectrum.
The phrase is "deadening egalitarianism of radical systems." I would bet Kirk had Mao's bullshit in mind, and none of us here espouses the notion that the cultural elite need to be sent to re-education camps.
Given Kirk's opposition to the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and his support of South African Apartheid, that seems like an overly narrow assumption of his support for inegalitarian systems. It seems far more likely that his endorsement of inegalitarianism was broad enough to include a certain amount of racial discrimination.
At any rate, one of the strengths of the Trump campaign is his willingness to abandon certain unpopular principles of the Republican party, whether those principles fall in to some Platonic ideal of "conservatism" or not. I've already mentioned his promise to preserve Social Security. He's also said he's open to increasing taxes on the wealthy*. These are both heretical to the Republican elite. They're also fairly popular with actual Republican voters. Trump's campaign seems premised on adopting positions which are both at odds with Republican orthodoxy and popular with the people who vote Republican. Part of the GOP's dysfunction is how many of its preferred policies fall into this category.
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*His actual tax proposals would do no such thing, but the point is that he feels that saying he's willing to raise taxes on the rich is a politically beneficial claim to make. So far, he seems to be right.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Well, then there was last night's debate.
After months of the metaphorical d*** swinging, they decided to go literal:
NWS moments from a so-called "presidential" debate.
Actual headline on CNN right now: Donald Trump defends size of his penis.
Bad week to take a job as fact-checker at Politifact.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
If we've learned anything from Donald Trump, it's that just because he says something is so, doesn't mean it's so.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
Donald Trump defends size of his penis.
Is this what Americans mean when they talk about a 'stump speech'?
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
This is US Presidential-standards of debate? The legacy of the founding fathers, the spirit of 76... the vision of Franklin Roosevelt, George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, Thomas Jefferson... it comes down to a guy who will get into arguing about penis size?
I'd say it was a sign of the end times, but that would be optimistic.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I don't know much about American elections, but will tape measures come into it? Will it be televised?
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
The revolution certainly won't be.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I suppose that a formula will soon be available for public inspection: length x girth = quantum solace.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
quetzalcoatl: I suppose that a formula will soon be available for public inspection:
Let's hope that it's just a formula that will be open for public inspection.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
This is US Presidential-standards of debate? The legacy of the founding fathers, the spirit of 76... the vision of Franklin Roosevelt, George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, Thomas Jefferson... it comes down to a guy who will get into arguing about penis size?
quote:
Originally posted by the Thomas Jefferson campaign, describing Presidential rival John Adams:
A hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman.
I'm not saying this whole thing isn't crude and juvenile, just that you may be over-stating the high-minded legacy of America's founders.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I suppose that a formula will soon be available for public inspection: length x girth = quantum solace.
Given that the platform of the GOP seems to be "s**** the working class" I suppose it's appropriate we know what we're getting into...or, er... vice-versa.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
This is US Presidential-standards of debate? The legacy of the founding fathers, the spirit of 76... the vision of Franklin Roosevelt, George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, Thomas Jefferson... it comes down to a guy who will get into arguing about penis size?
quote:
Originally posted by the Thomas Jefferson campaign, describing Presidential rival John Adams:
A hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman.
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
I'm not saying this whole thing isn't crude and juvenile, just that you may be over-stating the high-minded legacy of America's founders.
Yes, fair point. Although it still seems rather more eloquent and - maybe not high-minded but at least minded compared with Trump.
A bit like comparing Shakespeare's vulgar but witty references to country matters with yobs yelling invective.
[ 04. March 2016, 16:39: Message edited by: mdijon ]
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Sure, pull just two words out of the whole speech. That's an honest method of argument that will surely be appreciated by people on the opposite side of the political spectrum.
The phrase is "deadening egalitarianism of radical systems." I would bet Kirk had Mao's bullshit in mind, and none of us here espouses the notion that the cultural elite need to be sent to re-education camps. As a liberal, I want an egalitarian society. But I am never going to convince a conservative to join with me in working for that if I give no credence to what he or she sees as the senseless and potentially dangerous notion that everyone should get a trophy when some worked a lot harder and played the game better.
I think that sensible conservatives who do not have to worry about running for office, like Colin Powell, Sandra Day O'Connor, and others, need to not only denounce Trump, Cruz, et al, but offer a different vision of what it means to be conservative. Right now they just seem to be denouncing.
Posts: 1537 | Registered: Mar 2010
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Tape measures can be fudged. Get me a stainless steel foot ruler and an impartial panel of judges. Oh, and a bowl of ice, some calipers, and half a dozen pairs of disposable plastic salad tongs.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Tape measures can be fudged. Get me a stainless steel foot ruler and an impartial panel of judges. Oh, and a bowl of ice, some calipers, and half a dozen pairs of disposable plastic salad tongs.
That, a few bottles of vodka and a bag of Monster Munch and you have a party.
I will d.v. be in the west next week and mainly if not completely offline. Not the least pleasure will be not being continually presented with the bloated orange face and nylon hair every time I look at a screen.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Tape measures can be fudged. Get me a stainless steel foot ruler and an impartial panel of judges. Oh, and a bowl of ice, some calipers, and half a dozen pairs of disposable plastic salad tongs.
That, a few bottles of vodka and a bag of Monster Munch and you have a party.
Don't forget several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe.
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
A bit hard on the giraffe, however odd it might be.
All in all, a hell of a bad advert for the virtues of democratic processes. Perhaps I should say, so-called democratic processes?
But I do believe even Fox News have taken fright now.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
But I do believe even Fox News have taken fright now.
I can see them running out into the night screaming 'It's alive!'
Pity the Republican party didn't discover its reservations a few months ago before they thought they could harvest his supporters without taking the man himself.
[ 04. March 2016, 20:14: Message edited by: Firenze ]
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
It has all the feel of a 1960s SF B-movie.
"They thought they could control him. They were wrong."
The contagion is out of control, but thanks to Max Brooks, we know how to deal with it.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
A cogent summary of the GOP's current dilemma.
And this summarizes the disgust of the debate audience. When even a hand-picked Fox news audience is grossed out, then things have really gone down the drain.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Sure, pull just two words out of the whole speech. That's an honest method of argument that will surely be appreciated by people on the opposite side of the political spectrum.
Unfortunately, its oh so much easier to think the other side is evil and our side is the only one who cares and really knows what is going on.
[ 04. March 2016, 20:52: Message edited by: Og: Thread Killer ]
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
It's lovely to be nuanced and believe that both sides have decent people. But in this case, as per Brenda's link above, the Republican candidates are revolting even Republican voters.
So, no. Sorry. Your entire slate consists of genuinely terrible people.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
Now, as panic starts to break out on a global scale, I find myself increasingly interested in this.
one-way trips to Mars
Maybe I should apply now before the prices go up in November.
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
It's lovely to be nuanced and believe that both sides have decent people. But in this case, as per Brenda's link above, the Republican candidates are revolting even Republican voters.
So, no. Sorry. Your entire slate consists of genuinely terrible people.
Ur assumption that I am
a) a Republican
or even
b) an American
indicates another problem in all this mess:
If you are not for an opinion, you must obviously be on the other side and of a certain viewpoint.
Some people on the left, however that is defined, can be just as pigheadedly dismissive of the other side without bothering to actually listen.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Chris Christie says he wasn't held hostage by Trump.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
"5 countries that will welcome you if Trump becomes president" (Mashable). Svalbard looks interesting. As does New Zealand. During Dubya's years, they had a tourism campaign here in SF.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Some people on the left, however that is defined, can be just as pigheadedly dismissive of the other side without bothering to actually listen.
Yes, they can. But it's an easy cop out. Those of us who have listened - including Republican voters - have come to the conclusion that they're all crock.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
Thanks for your answer on Cruz and anchor babies Cliffdweller. Just what I needed to know, if not the answer I was hoping for. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
"5 countries that will welcome you if Trump becomes president" (Mashable). Svalbard looks interesting. As does New Zealand. During Dubya's years, they had a tourism campaign here in SF.
And therein lies Trump's strategy to get the Mexicans to build a wall. They'll gladly do so and pay for it, in order to keep the Americans out when these five countries change their immigration policies in response to being inundated. If the border weren't so long, the Canadians would probably build all wall too.
... on reflection, maybe the Joker's not such a fool after all. ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Having a passing interest here.
TMM if H. Clinton can't beat Trump then it will mean she doesn't have the credentials to be President, and will therefore mean she'd been deservedly beaten. Furthermore, if the American people vote Trump in then they will have deserved the outcome, and most can only hazard a guess at what that outcome will be.
More generally the hope must surely be that trump and his ilke are consigned to the garbage can of uninteresting history, Europe remains united, and common foe continue to be opposed wherever they exist. If none of the above happens then the humanity's nemesis, which was thought possible during the Cold War, could yet come down like a bolt from the
blue.
< doom watch scenario alert >
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Some people on the left, however that is defined, can be just as pigheadedly dismissive of the other side without bothering to actually listen.
Can be? This whole thread has been dominated by those who pigheadedly dismiss Trump and his supporters as either evil or stupid. Even when Ruth posted a very good and rational summary of conservative principles, the only direct response was a two-word snip of her post and a dismissive one-liner.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Marvin the Martian: Can be? This whole thread has been dominated by those who pigheadedly dismiss Trump and his supporters as either evil or stupid.
What exactly are we required to do? Trump has mostly been shouting incoherent stuff. The little that can be made sense of is disastrous. The last time he spoke in public, it was mostly about the size of his penis. Do you want us to do a full analysis of that?
[ 05. March 2016, 14:55: Message edited by: LeRoc ]
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
Your pigheaded dismissal is our accurate assessment. How would you characterise the Trump campaign?
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Some people on the left, however that is defined, can be just as pigheadedly dismissive of the other side without bothering to actually listen.
Can be? This whole thread has been dominated by those who pigheadedly dismiss Trump and his supporters as either evil or stupid. Even when Ruth posted a very good and rational summary of conservative principles, the only direct response was a two-word snip of her post and a dismissive one-liner.
That's hardly accurate, Marvin. Trump, if not his supporters, has for the most part, been described as evil and stupid.
FWIW I don't think he's stupid: vain, deluded and bigoted are far more accurate. For a start I'm sure he thinks his wives admire him for his looks.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Some people on the left, however that is defined, can be just as pigheadedly dismissive of the other side without bothering to actually listen.
Can be? This whole thread has been dominated by those who pigheadedly dismiss Trump and his supporters as either evil or stupid.
We all get that we appear to be engaging in everything we've decried in the last few elections and the sarcastic "thanks, Obama" meme. But the fact of the matter is, no matter how I've tried (and I have) to find some spark of good or even rationality or even selfish good of the country in Trump's policies, I just can't. Honestly, I do find him evil. There's just no other words for it.
Are his supporters evil or stupid? I don't know. Despite his astonishing electoral success and the fact that I live and work in a decidedly con-evo bubble, I've yet to meet anyone even online who has admitted to being a Trump supporter. Maybe it's a Southern thing. (I do know a LOT of Carson supporters who are almost as disdainful of Trump as they are of Clinton. Lots of angst now about how to vote in Nov.) I probably do tend to extrapolate what seem to me to be reasonable assessments of Trump onto his supporters-- perhaps that's unfair. If I could hear from even one of them, beyond just the cheering crowds responding to dog whistle hate-speech I see of his rallies on the news, perhaps I'd begin to understand them, even if I don't agree. But at this point, unable to find even a single Trump supporter (or at least one who'll admit to it) in the very very conservative evangelical circles I run in, I honestly can say, even with every exercise of empathy and openness I can muster, I just don't get it.
QUOTE]Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Even when Ruth posted a very good and rational summary of conservative principles, the only direct response was a two-word snip of her post and a dismissive one-liner. [/QUOTE]
You want more? OK-- I would admit that many of the principles were fine, possibly even good. Some I disagreed with but could at least see them as reasonable, and would acknowledge a reasonable difference of opinion.
But, with other posters here, the opposition to "egalitarianism" is for me a deal-breaker. I appreciate the contextualization/ explanation that came later in the thread, although even that justification I can't get on board for. But even more, I don't see any indication that subsequent Republican opposition to "egalitarianism" is limited to the very specific context suggested. The entire GOP platform, especially post-Reagan, seems to be specifically and even ruthlessly directed toward anti-egalitarianism, both racially and even more so economically.
Perhaps this plank is worth a thread of it's own for further discussion.
[ 05. March 2016, 15:32: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
This whole thread has been dominated by those who pigheadedly dismiss Trump and his supporters as either evil or stupid. Even when Ruth posted a very good and rational summary of conservative principles, the only direct response was a two-word snip of her post and a dismissive one-liner.
1) What have the conservative principles in Ruth's statement got to do with Donald Trump? Or the leadership of the Republican Party? Or the leadership of the modern UK Conservative Party for that matter?
There may be lots of genuine intelligent and good conservatives in the modern Conservative and Republican Parties. But they're not running the show.
2) If you support someone who claims that he'll build a wall between your country and Mexico, and get the Mexicans to pay for it, then you might not be stupid or evil, but you've lost the right to the benefit of the doubt. The evidence prima facie is against you.
[ 05. March 2016, 15:51: Message edited by: Dafyd ]
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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W Hyatt
Shipmate
# 14250
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Some people on the left, however that is defined, can be just as pigheadedly dismissive of the other side without bothering to actually listen.
Can be? This whole thread has been dominated by those who pigheadedly dismiss Trump and his supporters as either evil or stupid. Even when Ruth posted a very good and rational summary of conservative principles, the only direct response was a two-word snip of her post and a dismissive one-liner.
Trump bashing isn't about conservative vs. liberal: he doesn't have enough principles to warrant either label. His supporters are Republican and therefore conservative only because he has decided to run as a Republican, but the man himself is a complete outlier as far as politics go.
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A new church and a new earth, with Spiritual Insights for Everyday Life.
Posts: 1565 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 2008
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
A cri de coeur which in passing summarizes why Trump is totally unsuited to be president.
It horrifies me that such a man has enjoyed so much support. The writer is correct, to wonder what this says about this country.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Oh, and someone said upthread that they had not met any supporters of Trump. Here is a long piece with many interviews of Trump voters. With a good deal of extra stick for the unlucky Mitt Romney.
Thanks for that, but it really doesn't clear anything up for me. The article really just quotes Trump supporters as pissed off at Romney for telling them not to vote for him. But there's nothing in there to explain why they want to vote for him in the first place, so again, nothing to help me understand this group of people or what is motivating them.
I find it so curious that he is doing so well with the electorate, yet I honestly don't know a single person in real life or among online friends who has admitted to supporting him. Again, I am almost completely immersed in con-evo culture: I pastor an evangelical church, teach at an evangelical seminary, and worship frequently at a church described by a mystery worshipper as the happy clappiest of all the happy clappy churches. Almost all my colleagues, students, and friends are con-evos. Yet out of all of them-- no Trump supporters. Not ONE. Again, lots of Carson supporters, some Cruz and Rubio--but no Trump. Obviously there ARE Trump supporters-- millions of them-- but where? Who are they? What drives them? Still a mystery to me.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Are his supporters evil or stupid? I don't know. [..] I've yet to meet anyone even online who has admitted to being a Trump supporter.
I know a couple of people who are Trump supporters. Neither is evil; both have a collection of engineering/science degrees (that doesn't necessarily exempt "stupid" but it constrains you to have only particular kinds of stupidity.)
One is also a young earth creationist. He likes both Trump and Cruz. Basically, he's the religious right. The other guy is a bog-standard fiscal conservative, and likes Trump because of his business experience. He doesn't like Cruz at all. Both think that Trump would be successful at doing deals to accomplish conservative political goals.
They both share a visceral hate for Hillary Clinton. Basically, string together every Fox News talking point, uncritically accepted. If Mrs. Clinton said that the grass was green, they'd be claiming that it was really a shade of blue. They just laugh at Bernie Sanders.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
Well, there are enough signifiers there for me to get out the big rubber stamp marked 'stupid' and slap it right down on both their resumes.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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