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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: U.S. Presidential Election 2016
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I'd say this passes the reasonable man test as an incitement to shooting HRC, and by implication to murder.
Not by a long shot. It's all too vague. Your reasonable man would be laughed out of court.
Is it an obscene thing for a candidate for President to say? Sure - but there's quite a lot of clear water between the set of things which a candidate for President should reasonably say and the set of things that are criminal to say.
Trump regularly crosses a long way over the first line, but he doesn't make it as far as the second.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
Trump seems to be expert at coming right up to the fuzzy edges of that 2nd line. That's his happy place.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
Is there no constitutional purchase against the use of terms such as "revengance" and "revengent"? Will no-one think of the children?
But to be serious this does seem like a profound new depth to plumb. And all the more remarkable that there appeared to be an attempt to regroup and calm his campaign down after the previous two weeks of campaigning. He reminds me of a toddler that can't cope with being good for more than a few hours and explodes after the effort of controlling himself for too long.
Let's hope that seeing this new depth has the right effect on voters. Of course his core supporters won't mind, but hopefully a fair number of more reasonably-minded people who have been making excuses for him up until now will consider this the last straw.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Various:
--ISTM that if Trump is going to nudge the "Second Amendment people", he should keep in mind how they might react if *he* disappoints them. Not calling nor wishing for anything bad to happen to him. But could be all the variations of "sown the wind, reaped the whirlwind", "be careful what you wish for", "hoist by his own petard", and (from the last Narnia book) "he has called on a god in whom he does not believe--how shall it be then for him if the god exists".
Also: dictators never seem to consider that when they take away the possibility of voting them out, they seriously narrow down the ways that people can remove them from office...
--Barnabas quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
I suppose it is possible that he knew what he was doing by saying that, so he "feathered" it to stay (maybe just) within the law.
I've been around for seven and a half decades, been politically aware for 6 of those, have been following US Presidential Elections since 1956. I think what is happening here is without precedent or parallel, certainly in my time as an observer.
I think it's likely that Trump "feathered" what he said though I doubt he consulted any lawyers or legal documents or that pesky Constitution thing.
You might want to look into some of our very early presidential elections, and possibly down through Lincoln. I don't know if anyone threatened murder; but the rhetoric in some of those campaigns was really vile.
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
They had someone from Alabama on the R4 Today programme explaining why it didn't mean what everyone was arguing that it meant, and that people who thought it did mean that were wrong. I couldn't quite grasp what he was saying it did mean though. Or why no-one who thought it meant what it didn't mean would be likely to to put it into action. This may be because I was half asleep, or reading something or something, but I did try to pay attention. It was confusing. He may have suggested it was a joke.
It sounded as if Trump was using a joking intonation to me. And it sounded as if he were hinting what people have thought he was hinting.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Mister Bammy was probably right, that Mr. Trump intended to be " funny," but after this year's harrowing onslaught of gun violence in the US it was a pretty damn sick joke, right up there with Reagan goofing on an ICBM strike. And even in the most temperate of national moods, I can't imagine anyone deciding candidates making jokes about assassinating people after they are elected would be anything to make light of.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
GK, yeah, I was trying to remember some classics of early American campaign rhetoric, which was indeed really vile, but I don't remember a candidate riffing on the potential assassination of a rival. If anything, it was probably more likely for candidates to aim spurious murder charges at each other. Because the aim was to make the other guy look like a dick, whereas Trump apparently thinks it's "may the biggest dick win." (Metaphorically, of course;All apologies to penisless candidates.)
ETA: well, wait a minute, does anyone remember what set Aaron Burr off?
[ 10. August 2016, 07:57: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Meanwhile, the 538 Election poll forecast shows further movement against Trump. The most conservative of its estimates (Polls-plus) has moved up, by 4 percentage points in five days, the probability of HC winning to just under 80%.
Real Clear Politics has Clinton ahead by an average of 8 percentage points.
And the Bookies are, on average, giving you about 1/4 for a bet on Hillary, compared with 2/7 just under a week ago. And again that change reflects the 538 forecast.
Well, it's August. The silly season. And by all appearances Trump has been pretty silly in the past couple of weeks; even sillier than before. Whatever he is doing to rally his faithful, it looks as though he's losing the undecideds. But there are still three months to go. He probably needs a new Hillary scandal (rather than the tired reworking of the emails issue) to turn things around.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Rocinante
Shipmate
# 18541
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Posted
Trump appears to be making the classic mistake of the political beginner: assuming that what gets applause from his core supporters will also win over the wider electorate. There's a long way to go, though, and I keep thinking: "surely he can't be that dumb?"
Posts: 384 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2016
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Here is the NRA tweet.
quote:
.@RealDonaldTrump is right. If @HillaryClinton gets to pick her anti-#2A #SCOTUS judges, there’s nothing we can do. #NeverHillary
Note how it ignores the second sentence of Trump's controversial remarks.
quote:
“If she gets to pick her judges ― nothing you can do, folks,” Trump told supporters. “Although, the Second Amendment people. Maybe there is. I don’t know.”
These guys are defending the indefensible. Just add it to the long list of things the NRA ought to be ashamed about.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Kelly--
"Hamilton's Dueling History, a Haunted Bar and the Bank That Owns the Pistols: Your Guide to the Hamilton-Burr Duel" (Mental Floss, which has a somewhat edgy/irreverent style).
"Adams vs. Jefferson: The Birth of Negative Campaigning in the U.S." (Mental Floss).
And for fun:
"11 Presidential Campaign Slogans That Went Beyond Buzzwords" (Mental Floss). NOTE: *Possibly* NSFW. There's some double-entendre. Mostly on campaign buttons, so more visible. You have been warned! ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I did wonder if Trump is sabotaging his own campaign. You can draw a parallel with Brexit, where the Brexit leaders basically did a runner, when they won. I suppose this could be partly the heaviness of the task, and feeling unsuitable, not feelings normally associated with Trump. However, what would his unconscious say? Some bullies feel like shit about themselves at a deeper level, (not all of them).
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Upthread (the link is 'Trump Needs a Miracle to Win') the money quote from the article is:
"It is not enough for Trump to lose. It is important that his loss be devastating. Pile on. Go down ballot. The GOP must have a McGovern moment where they are force to rethink their approach. Should they be always negative, or maybe, they have a positive message about personal freedom and limited government that they can promote without being against and opposed to any accommodation to what the American people really want and need."
As to the excuse 'it was a JOKE' and the perennial allied comment 'what's the matter with you don't you have a sense of HUMOR?' all I can say is that women are well used to this. And we recognize it as the veil for sexism, misogyny, or racism. You can't pull that one any more.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
You can't joke about assassination. Witness the MP killed in the UK, Jo Cox, by somebody who allegedly shouted, 'Britain First'. There are plenty of nutters who take these things seriously.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rocinante:
Trump appears to be making the classic mistake of the political beginner: assuming that what gets applause from his core supporters will also win over the wider electorate. There's a long way to go, though, and I keep thinking: "surely he can't be that dumb?"
Dumb is the wrong word, IMO. It implies more thought goes into what he says than is actually the case.
I mean that seriously, I think much of what he is saying issues forth without any real reasoning occurring.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
Gulianni was on the airwaves this morning saying the reference meant the "2nd amendment folks" could do something about it by not voting for her. The problem is, the context specifically excludes that. In the sentences immediately prior Trump is framing the situation as "after she is elected there is nothing you can do... except you 2nd amendment folks..."
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Mister Bammy was probably right, that Mr. Trump intended to be " funny," but after this year's harrowing onslaught of gun violence in the US it was a pretty damn sick joke, right up there with Reagan goofing on an ICBM strike. And even in the most temperate of national moods, I can't imagine anyone deciding candidates making jokes about assassinating people after they are elected would be anything to make light of.
I would agree that he thought it was a joke. He thought it was funny to joke about shooting a woman, assassinating a political opponent.
This article unpacks the many implications of why the fact that he was joking only makes it worse.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
Meanwhile, I have been offered this story as a counter to the 2nd amendment one: "Trump's just talking about killing people, Hillary's doing it...".
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Meanwhile, I have been offered this story as a counter to the 2nd amendment one: "Trump's just talking about killing people, Hillary's doing it...".
Oh, yeah, and Vince Foster, too... All this chatter does is legitimize Trump's horrific dog-whistles. Wikileaks has jumped the shark.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
You can't joke about assassination. Witness the MP killed in the UK, Jo Cox, by somebody who allegedly shouted, 'Britain First'. There are plenty of nutters who take these things seriously.
Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Meanwhile, I have been offered this story as a counter to the 2nd amendment one: "Trump's just talking about killing people, Hillary's doing it...".
Oh, yeah, and Vince Foster, too... All this chatter does is legitimize Trump's horrific dog-whistles. Wikileaks has jumped the shark.
I was never that impressed with wikileaks. Can anybody cite one shocking, game-changing revelation from the diplomatic cables? They were hyped up for weeks("We will soon be seeing the crimes of the empire laid bare!!"), and then, when they finally hit the news, it was mostly stuff like American diplomats yukking it up about how some British cabinet minister is a real horn dog.
That said, I suppose that since it's been the Obama administration, with HRC heading state, that's gone after Manning and may or may not be going after Assange, it makes a certain sense that Wikileaks would have an anomosity toward Clinton. Plus, I'm guessing that Assange might really believe that Trump will pursue an isolationist, less interventionist foreign policy. (Naive assumption in my view, though somewhat understandable, if you take his rhetoric at face value.)
[ 10. August 2016, 16:02: Message edited by: Stetson ]
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
there is nothing you can do
I'm surprised that no one has pointed out that the President can nominate whomever he or she pleases, but it's the Senate that confirms. They certainly have an example fresh before their eyes, where our present sorry excuse for a Senate has vowed not to confirm the President's appointment of [the late sorry excuse for a] Justice Scalia's replacement.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
there is nothing you can do
I'm surprised that no one has pointed out that the President can nominate whomever he or she pleases, but it's the Senate that confirms. They certainly have an example fresh before their eyes, where our present sorry excuse for a Senate has vowed not to confirm the President's appointment of [the late sorry excuse for a] Justice Scalia's replacement.
Yes, good point-- but please when you're quoting me quoting the Donald, please, for the sake of all that's holy, make sure it's clear I'm quoting Trump!!!
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Didn't Freud have something to say about the ideas that sneak out when people make jokes?
The trouble is, something similar might sneak out from me with regard to Trump - though it is many times less likely to trigger something in someone else.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Didn't Freud have something to say about the ideas that sneak out when people make jokes?
The trouble is, something similar might sneak out from me with regard to Trump - though it is many times less likely to trigger something in someone else.
He wrote a whole book on it - basically, aggressive, sexual and other impulses break through in many jokes, which are normally taboo, as with the Freudian slip. Example: that's no lady, that's my wife.
But with Trump, it's all quite weird, as he doesn't have normal impulse control, and he seems to be teetering all the time on the border, about to say the unsayable.
Well, it makes him popular, as it makes the foul-mouthed stand-up comedian popular. But, would you want him as the commander in chief?
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Just reminded me of all the jokes after Diana died, many of them utterly tasteless, so I won't repeat. A kind of antidote to all the sentimentality, I suppose.
So Trump has stripped away the normal persona, which politicians use, and some people like this. He talks about women having periods, and POWs being cowards, and tells people to shut up.
But after all, you do need a persona, because it demonstrates self-control, see Obama, who has it in spades. How can you trust someone with no self-control?
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Though Obama gets hassled for being *too* controlled. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) Actually, IMHO, he sometimes has a "Sinatra and the Rat Pack" thing going: cool, controlled, elegant. (And yes, I know they weren't necessarily that way in private!)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Thanks for the Scalzi link, Josephine. Good article.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Example of someone just musing out loud in front of people who might be able to make it happen: quote:
Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Bloody Hell! Obama is now the "founder" of ISIS, and HC its "co-founder"
Quotes from the New York Post article
quote:
He repeated the allegation three more times for emphasis.
Trump also pointedly referred to the president by his full legal name: Barack Hussein Obama.
And this one
quote:
Trump lobbed the allegation midway through his rally at a sports arena, where riled-up supporters shouted obscenities about Clinton and joined in unison to shout “lock her up.” He railed against the fact that the Orlando shooter’s father, Seddique Mateen, was spotted in the crowd behind Clinton during a Monday rally in Florida, adding, “Of course he likes Hillary Clinton.”
This guy is whipping up hatred.
One further link, from RealClear Politics. CNN Interview.
[ 11. August 2016, 10:01: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Lawrence
Ship's Grill Master
# 4913
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Posted
Yes, the Trump motto really is Make America Hate Again.
Posts: 199 | From: Where once you could get a decent Brain Sandwich | Registered: Aug 2003
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
The Scalzi article was a good read - and the comments.
I lost counts of the number of times I had to tell the class bully that I was not going to any explanation that began "It was just" or "It was only"; that words were only jokes if the person they were aimed at is laughing, and there is no requirement that that person has to "take it", whether words or punches.
But that was with 8 year olds, 9 at a pinch.
The thought of Trump explaining that Russia can't take it, when it is a bomb on Moscow is creeping into my mind.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Scalzi was formerly president of the Science-Fiction & Fantasy Writers of America, and was a notably effective and right-thinking man. Over there we have a saying, that if Scalzi is against you you're probably the villain.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Trump is getting into trouble in Scotland, where his Aberdeen golf course has not registered under the Data Protection law, despite holding a lot of information about its members and using CCTV which intrudes onto public land - the access road for two nearby homes which do not support his development.
Guardian on the story
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
"Clerical oversight" my arse. Trump has an army of lawyers, accountants and the like to keep him and his firms out of trouble.
This will be career-limiting for someone, but not Trump.
[ 11. August 2016, 23:27: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
My cri de coeur of the day is that, somehow, unwittingly, I have been listed somewhere in some database as a possible Trump supporter. Why does God hate me? is the natural exclamation. The robocalls I have been laying gently down onto the tabletop -- a person I could h/a/v/e f/u/n w/i/t/h talk to, but there's nothing to be done about a recording.
But now the paper mailings are starting. I had one yesterday, and another today. From yesterday's I carefully extracted the business-reply envelope, and attached it to a cardboard box containing a quantity of packing material, and a brick for makeweight. I added a note urging them never to phone me again.
Today's mailing fills me with depression. I have passed it to my husband, who is of a kindler and gentler nature than yours truly. He may write a letter, politely asking to be removed from the lists, but I know that this will have no effect whatsoever. (Point out to me a moment when The Tiny Fingered One has ever listened to anybody, and I might have hope, but I know you cannot do this. No point in asking for a miracle.)
I live in a purple state, and see no way out of this until the first week in November. Is there anyone here who would like a BRE from the Trump campaign? PM me if you do. I'm gonna have a lot of these things. (sigh)
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
He may write a letter, politely asking to be removed from the lists, but I know that this will have no effect whatsoever.
Write DECEASED - RETURN TO SENDER on the envelope and pop it right back into the mailbox.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Not gonna work. It would probably cost them more to remove you from the list than it would to keep bombarding you with crap.
I see you've already taken my stepfather the mailman's advice: stuff the return envelope full of crap and send it back. He once got a camera that way. ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
It shouldn't be hard to come by a shitload of Hillary stuff. Alternately, take it into your workplace and invite coworkers to contribute missives to post back. (I can think of any number of memes to print out and send)
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
Hillary defended a child rapist, who destroyed her confidence in polygraph testing when he passed one, and laughed about the preferable outcome for the defendant on a discovery technicality.(Audio available on Google)
I used to think that she just stuck with Bill, even though he was obviously a sexual predator, as penance for having had another man's child whilst married to him.
It never occurred to me that she thought rape was funny!
As far as shit human beings go, Trump has nothing on The Beast.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Really?
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
This makes some sort of sense:Trump is an object lesson in the problems of machine learning: quote:
one of the core problems with machine learning: bias in the sample-set. The people that Trump relies upon to give him his success feedback are the people who show up for Trump rallies, who are the most extreme, least-representative group of potential Trump voters. The more Trump optimizes for this limited group, the more he de-optimizes for the rest of the world.
(declaration of interest: this is why you should never resort to machine translation, either ![[Smile]](smile.gif) )
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Alwyn
Shipmate
# 4380
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
As far as shit human beings go, Trump has nothing on The Beast.
Really? Would you (or anyone) like to defend Mr Trump's claim (which you can see him making in this video) that President Obama "founded Isis"?
Of course, you can say that Mr Trump meant that the President should have done more to create a stable situation in the area where ISIS was founded - and, when invited to clarify his accusation, he used this defence.
But Mr Trump didn't just do that. Hugh Hewitt pointed that 'Obama is "not sympathetic" to ISIS and "hates" and is "trying to kill them."' Mr Trump's reply? "I don't care" (source).
What does that "I don't care" tell us about the kind of person that Mr Trump is, or the kind of President he would be?
[ 12. August 2016, 06:49: Message edited by: Alwyn ]
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Post hoc, ergo propter hoc
Posts: 849 | From: UK | Registered: Apr 2003
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
romanlion--
From the quotes in mdijon's FactCheck link, Hillary's laughter was rueful, cynical laughter about the idiotic bureaucracy and ironies of the *legal procedures*--no laughter at the rape, at all. H was stuck with an awful case, tried to get out of it but couldn't, and was legally bound to give the defendant his best defense.
As to Chelsea's biological father: I neither know nor care. I've no reason to think it's anyone but Bill Clinton. But, whoever it is, why stir up something that's going to hurt Chelsea? It serves no good purpose.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
I think what almost scares me the most about Trump is that, lately, he sometimes behaves more reasonably, and carries himself more like he's a controlled person. (The *content* of his comments hasn't gotten any better, though.) If someone's fence-sitting about voting for him, and thinks T has finally gotten his act together...
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
"Clerical oversight" my arse. Trump has an army of lawyers, accountants and the like to keep him and his firms out of trouble.
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Given how often companies he is fronting mess up, I doubt very much that he has any decision making support but his family and a couple of guys he currently likes. He cheaps out on everything. Lawyers on retainer? Sure, but he decides when to call them in. Otherwise, he's relying upon underpaid people who just may not know what needs to be done.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
This is a common theme with the American right. They claim to love the U.S. Constitution, but have absolute contempt for its provisions, like the Sixth Amendment. And it's not just Hillary Clinton (though she's been their especial hate object for more than a quarter century), it's become relatively common to denigrate lawyers defending unpopular defendants, even those who do so involuntarily or as part of their jobs as publicly-funded defense attorneys.
Public defense is drastically underfunded in the U.S. Folks like romanlion now want to add "will be disqualified from ever holding public office" to the low wages and long hours that already burden public defenders (or those, like Hillary Clinton, who are drafted into the public defender system).
You'll also notice that it's never the prosecutor's fault for losing the case. Offense seems to be taken that defendants are allowed to mount any kind of defense at all. Merely being accused is sufficient for conviction in the minds of some.
On a related note, Missouri's Director of Public Defenders has come up with a creative way to bring attention to his department's neglect.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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